Realism?

[SoujiroElric 0]

Hello. I think I tried asking this before... But I really need a guideline and anything here (omnibus included) just don't leave me things clear. How do I make a realistic city? Playing just to have a huge city feels wrong, unless I make it look good. I would love to make an eye candy! I've tried not using grids but I don't know if I'm doing things right...

[Dizastrow 4]

Spread things out.  Make forests and open grassy areas.  There are alot of cool things in the STEX that you can download too.  Like, for my farming communities, I make the farms irregular shapes and seperate them will irregular shaped forests.  In urban settings, space out buildings, use parks, green space.  Always try and shy away from squares, except when building downtowns and large urban residential areas.  Leave tiles in your region empty, except for forests, rivers, lakes, etc.  It will give you region a more realistic look.

[SoujiroElric 0]

Originally posted by: Dizastrow

Spread things out.  Make forests and open grassy areas.  There are alot of cool things in the STEX that you can download too.  Like, for my farming communities, I make the farms irregular shapes and seperate them will irregular shaped forests.  In urban settings, space out buildings, use parks, green space.  Always try and shy away from squares, except when building downtowns and large urban residential areas.  Leave tiles in your region empty, except for forests, rivers, lakes, etc.  It will give you region a more realistic look.quote>

How do I know when to leave things open and when to fill with stuff, and what extensions will I need? I neither know how to get started...

[diamonddog_74 32]

Originally posted by: SoujiroElric

How do I know when to leave things open and when to fill with stuff, and what extensions will I need? I neither know how to get started...

quote>

Pay a lot of attention of how things are built where you live, or other places that interest you. For example, I live in Chicago, so I take a lot of inspiration from the built environment here. I've also lived in New York and San Francisco, so my cities definitely tend to have an American feel to them. However, I like seeing how things are built in Europe and Asia (good ideas come from anywhere), and I try to duplicate some of those things in-game.

Also, look at satellite photos (Google Maps) of cities. You can get lots of good ideas that way, but you see the bad ones that you can avoid.

You must realize that plain SC4 Deluxe is actually quite limited. Definitely download and install things like NAM, CAM, and other mods and custom content that will help you create visual variety, and solve some issues with the game's limitations.

However, it really is all about creativity. In the real world, there may be some ideas that are not so hot, so you may want to do something different, and that's alright.

Oh, and don't put gigantic highrises at the ends of airport runways. I've seen some people do that on here, and it kills me every time. That certainly never happens in the real world. As dangerous as it was, even Hong Kong Kai Tak didn't have huge buildings at the end of the runway.

[joshriddle 29]

Originally posted by: SoujiroElric

Originally posted by: Dizastrow

Spread things out.  Make forests and open grassy areas.  There are alot of cool things in the STEX that you can download too.  Like, for my farming communities, I make the farms irregular shapes and seperate them will irregular shaped forests.  In urban settings, space out buildings, use parks, green space.  Always try and shy away from squares, except when building downtowns and large urban residential areas.  Leave tiles in your region empty, except for forests, rivers, lakes, etc.  It will give you region a more realistic look.quote>

How do I know when to leave things open and when to fill with stuff, and what extensions will I need? I neither know how to get started...

quote>

All depends on you. Go on the STEX and start looking around for the NAM. Also download SAM, NWM, and NAM Essentials. That will keep you entertained for awhile. Once you get that down, dowload the RHW.

Next go onto replacement mods, such as road textures. I use the Euro Road Textures Mod (By Andreas) that changes road textures to look more european.

Next download some tree controllers, and maybe pick up a mod here or there. While it is possible to go on a download spree without getting a corrupted mod or something, I stress testing new extensions on a sandbox region. What I do is I download it, start a new city with it, just randomly build things all over the place without any respect for the game's trivia or stragety. If it works, I keep it, and I use it in my real cities. (Just to clarify, by real I mean the cities I like and play on often).

I have 1.6 GB of plugins, which is great plenty to cause lag, especially at game startup. So if the game lags very bad, get used to it. It will happen.

[SoujiroElric 0]

Regarding my city...

Southern

Downtown

I'm not getting much inspiration here, the downtown is griddy and the rest of the city is messy. I think I might find some inspiration in any other city... And thank you, I could imagine the scene of an airplane taking flight with a skyscrapper after it.

I've got NAM already, so CAM, SAM, NWM, RHW and NAM essentials... What are those for?

[joshriddle 29]

SAM allows you to choose different street textures, such as blacktop, brick, dirt, and a few others.

NWM allows you to add different medians to roads, avenues, and OWRs, or remove medians alltogether. It also provides a features.

RHW provides more realistic highways, but it is harder to use

NAM Essentials are needed to Make SAM, NWM, and RHW work. If you install the SAM, NWM, and RHW, you will need the NAM otherwise they will not work.

The CAM provides (or I think it provides) bigger building stages. But I don't know much about the CAM.

[SoujiroElric 0]

Is it okay if I asked you to lead me to some cities to begin with? I could do mine but no terrain pleases me...

I'm downloading the mods, btw! I just cannot find CAM...

[heitomat 156]

You'll find CAM here. You need to register, though, but I guess you would sooner or later as this is the main site for CAM related buildings.

For a large citiy, still with a touch of green, I'd recommend you to use Google Maps and search for Hamburg, Germany. Notice the non-gridded lay-out and how the surrounding towns have developed to form a large, urban area with parks and forests in between. Berlin, Germany, is another great example. This city is rather special: After the reunion of East and West Berlin, the city actually had two city centers with more or less of a wasteland in the middle. The last decades a new city center has been developed from scratch, to fill this wasteland, making the city united once again. This has made room for several examples of modern day urban planning.

[SoujiroElric 0]

I now remember... I tried doing another city a while back but felt it was huge, heavy and that I couldn't follow correctly the layout. It was a metropolis, too.

[mattamillion 2]

I think you really just need to experiment. Start playing a little bit and figure out how the game works, the mechanics, etc. Know that you'll probably scrap your first region when (not if) you get sick of it. But that's your best bet.

[SoujiroElric 0]

Uhm, but I already get the mechanics. I can actually begin building a city and get high technology industries in it, so the mechanics aren't an issue. It just feels empty to play if I don't try to make it look good.

[joshriddle 29]

Well, there are an abundance of realism tutorials on the stex.

What I am doing now is making things not so realistic. It still looks good, but it is on a map of a small area in Canada, which I am pretending is some sort of Kingdom.

Another thing you can do is query a building, and rename it.

Also you may want to take a quick look at other cities around the world. When I first started playing SC4 I made an attempt at replicating the city I lived in. It wasn't perfect in the least, but I liked it. It would have been better if it was scaled better.

Now here is a city I absolutely love. It is the typical American suburbs with nice skyline. You could try going for that. It is better for people that has plenty of parking lots in their plugins folder though.

[SoujiroElric 0]

Hey that doesn't look like something I wouldn't do, and I don't need an specific map to make it! Just a question, is the industrial place that while place near the airport? I'm trying to figure that out to get the city started...

...or don't I really need that?

[joshriddle 29]

Well, there isn't any industry there. I do believe that if you scroll out further west there is an industrial district.

That entire area here is simply an airport, you have a few airport roads running through it, and mostly just a bunch of open pavement.

As far as airports go, there are some huge airport sets on the STEX you may want to take a search for.

As for downtown, you don't have to replicate the buildings exactly. The only Dallas building I found on the STEX was the Reunion Tower.

Of course there is a map of Dallas on the STEX as well, but it is missing some very important features such as Lewisville Lake to the north, Lake Ray Hubbard to the east and the Trinity River.

As for terraforming the area goes, maybe try taking a look at Google Earth. For the most part it is flat, and has a few creeks here and there, as well as the Trinity River that crosses over both Ft worth and dallas.

[SoujiroElric 0]

Just a technical question.. do I have to rely on commerce to make the city grow, then?

[joshriddle 29]

You have to rely on RC and I to work right (R=Residental, C=Commerical, I=Industrial)

So, for me at least, yeah.

[SoujiroElric 0]

What I meant is... if there are no industrial places, do I make temporary industrial zones or do I just rely on commerce?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Actually what you need is a philosophy and a view that allows you to change as your skills and wants grow.  A good start is to think about where cities come from.  You don't turn over a cabbage leaf and find a big, complex city.  Pick a nice map with both coastal regions and landlocked areas, and just start.

Now if you want to start with a coastal region, what's the first thing you get with new settlers?  Farms, that's what.  A couple of grid squares in from the coast, lay down about six farms.  Easiest thing to do is create them by click and hold.  Put roads (concessions and lines) between them, and if you like, use the SAM to change the textures to dirt roads.  They only need power, so put up a wind generator.

Now, farms need workers, and there are two choices: You can put some 1 x 2 single occupancy lots directly on the farm land and supply workers that way; and/or you can create the beginnings of your city by setting up a village at some likely cross roads by putting some residential lots along the roads, and adding some single occupancy commercial emporium spaces (two or three is usually enough).  You still only need power.  The wind generator will do the trick.

You should allow this to grow for a while, while enjoying the animation.  I recommend Rhino speed as most enjoyable.  When your population hits 500 you will be offered the Mayor's House.  Refuse it, you can get it out of the rewards menu later.  A big mansion at this point only messes up your scene.

Your farm produce needs someplace to go.  You can either make a neighbor connection off the edge of your tile or you can put in a Seaport which will act as a freight sink.  If you use the seaport, cut its budget to about $50.  Check on it once in a while.  If this overloads you'll have to up the budget a little.  I resist the idea of neighbor connections until there is a good reason.

Now, after growing a little and not paying too much attention to demands, you can put in a school.  There are some nice rural schools on the STEX and the PLEX.  You should also think about adding a fire station.  The game likes you better if you are concerned with public safety.  You don't need cops yet.

Add a few more lots to your town and let it grow.  Control your education expenses so that the busing radius just takes in the residential area (including any lots on the farms).  Soon you will start getting no-job zots, so you have to make a decision here on whether to add more commercial lots or build an industrial pod.  In any case, you are in the water crunch because if you zone anything other than I-Ag or Single Occupancy R or C, you have to supply water.  Anyway, making a water system will also get you better houses on the lots that are serviced.

You can start with a water tower.  They have a lot of capacity, but won't support a big industrial pod.

As your Sims become better educated (by your school) they will demand better jobs.  An early approach to better jobs is I-D, so you can pick an area away from the town, run a road over there, and create a smallish industrial park for medium occupancy I.  This will get you some I-D and a sprinkling of i-M.  You must water this, but the water plant cannot be too close or it will be shut down by pollution.  The same applies to water towers close to farm land.

At this point you need to concern yourself with both water and air pollution.  The water purification plant does wonders for your water, but the only features of the game that do much for air pollution are graveyards, parks, and trees.  So put down some green spaces (you did want that, didn't you?).  There are some (expensive) air plants on the STEX and elsewhere.

One of the neater things you can do in the game is put a commercial pod along the road to the industrial pod.  High traffic on the road keeps the commercial guys happy.  The game is programmed to be happy if there is a good balance between the three zone types.

Now you can grow your village into a town, and the town into a city.  This can be done in pods and they don't have to be contiguous, only connected by the road/rail transportation network.  You might want to start thinking about neighbor connections and starting other cities in the region to help demands and general operations.  Just be careful you don't cause a transportation loop among the cities or the Sims will just ride round and round.  Try to arrange your inter city net in a tree with no back connections.

So, have fun.  Take it slow, enjoy the scenery, add some, enjoy the animation, and remember to stay in the black.  If you go bankrupt you lose the game and the city, but if you stay in the black, you can play a city forever.

[SoujiroElric 0]

Oh god. Where's the "I like" button? Thank you a lot, I'm gonna try that right away! (once I'm done with a homework, that is)

Maybe not exactly what I was asking for, but I have never tried playing that way. I just go with residential, a small commercial zone and a polluting industry zone and build up from there.

[mightygoose 92]

nonny moose nice work.... i will have more to add at some point too

[SoujiroElric 0]

I would like to see what you add I'm still doing this homework! XD

[packersfan 666]

My best advice for getting realism is too refer to google maps or freshlogicstudios atlas (they have a nice bird's eye feature) of your desired type of region and mimic it. So if you want a British countryside, look in Britain, European farms and burgs, look in Europe, midwestern American, well you get the idea

AND SCALE IS KEY. 100 tiles = 1 Mile...take that into consideration and compare your scaling with what you see in google satellite views.

[SoujiroElric 0]

Originally posted by: packersfan

My best advice for getting realism is too refer to google maps or freshlogicstudios atlas (they have a nice bird's eye feature) of your desired type of region and mimic it. So if you want a British countryside, look in Britain, European farms and burgs, look in Europe, midwestern American, well you get the idea

AND SCALE IS KEY. 100 tiles = 1 Mile...take that into consideration and compare your scaling with what you see in google satellite views.quote>

That's gonna be handy, indeed! Thank you!

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Originally posted by: packersfan

My best advice for getting realism is too refer to google maps or freshlogicstudios atlas (they have a nice bird's eye feature) of your desired type of region and mimic it. So if you want a British countryside, look in Britain, European farms and burgs, look in Europe, midwestern American, well you get the idea

AND SCALE IS KEY. 100 tiles = 1 Mile...take that into consideration and compare your scaling with what you see in google satellite views.quote>

A good point.  The largest tile is only 4Km per side, so none of this is very large.  You have to think on a regional level to really get a nice city.

If you jam 10,000,000 Sims into one of these you have a pretty good model for downtown Kolicutt.

[SoujiroElric 0]

I'll first try playing with a city with the method you said, and only then I'll move on with something bigger.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Yes.  After you get a profitable small town, move to another tile and do it again.  Think of your region as one large city and you'll do a nicer job.  Each city could be a county or borough of the overall city.  There are some built-in stumbling blocks to this, like the fact that airports only serve one tile, but it can be handled.

With all the Air Force Bases that I have been offered lately, I am beginning to think that there is some kind of gigantic pork barrel in the sky.

Later the same day:  I got my system working again with SC4 so I pulled an example of a fully developed city with the pop heading for 200 and took a snap of it, and of the region.  On the region, the city is marked with a yellow ellipse.  You see how things are going.  This is on the canned New York map.  The light patches are from a graphics glitch.  When I open and resave, it is fixed.

Image shack was having a senior moment. To get this second image in, I had to completely log off the net and come back on.

This is the transportation map image.  You can see the other cities don't have a lot of stuff in them.  That is because the central city is driving the development to a certain degree.  This is what I have been doing on this region.  What you do in your region is up to you, but you were asking for hints, so here you are.

[SoujiroElric 0]

Well, following your suggestions, I got this as the first city of the region:

I placed the industrial park near the port and I'm beggining to take over the farms to develop more things. There's a high demand of office places so I granted them, but just to make it look good I replaced the streets near the offices for roads.

What do you think?

[DustyLee23 6]

That is a great start to a city keep growing it

[joshriddle 29]

Amazing. However for me at least, it isn't too often that I see 2-3 story offices in a small town like that. I recommend zoning low density to make things realistic.

Remember that you can zone med density residental at 1100 residents which is likely to draw in apartment buildings. But keep in mind anything med and high density needs water (except for industry)