nybt-forum-threads Jumpthefence's BAT Forge

[PBGV103 729]

looks amazing to me!

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Wow!!!! it's perfect. Everything is on point, I reall love the roof junk, keep it up. I am so ready to download these.

[serebii666 3]

These look wonderful and good luck on your exams!

[GuerrilaWarfare 39]

How do you apply the graffiti if you don't mind me asking ?

[Jumpthefence 74]

Woohoo. I'm back.

Exams are finally over (I actually didn't have my band or history exams until January 31st, which was later than expected because of a snow day). If anyone cares, I know I scored an average of 94.6/100, though I haven't seen the score for my geometry exam, which, as you can probably imagine, was a subject easily grasped for me and will probably bring the average above 95. Not bad; I think I could have done better.

Anyways, since I haven't posted since January 15th, I have plenty to show y'all. It seems like NYBT has been especially productive in the last few weeks, so I guess I'll join the party. This post needs some 

Replies:

PBGV103: Oh, does it now? Well, I'll be exporting soon.

Aaron Graham: Well, "there's no such thing as a perfect BAT, just at some point you stop working and decide to export it because it's pretty darn close to perfect". I forget who said that, I think it was either SimHoTToDDy or Simfox. And they'll be on the STEX once we get the llamas out of the broccoli (again).

serebii666: I'd like to think exams went well.

GuerrilaWarfare: I'm actually glad you asked; I've been meaning to write a tutorial on that for a while now. It'll appear later on in the post.

Chinatown II:

Actually, The picture would be too large for this forum, so I'm going to link to it. Every possible level 5 view of the shops. Click the link, look 'em all over, scrutinize everything, and tell me what you think.

>2,436,117 pixels, give it a moment to load<

Aside from a few minor changes, the only thing I added was nightlights. Observant readers will note that A3 and A6 look very different, and that's because I'm going to try some special nightlighting. If no one has any objections, I'll be exporting tomorrow.

Current Project:

I decided to return to the walkups under construction, because, well, I only have to do 2/3 the work from here, since one's already done. Here's the next one in the set:

As usual, I'm giving you the psychadelic version first, but I've already done a little bit of texturing by this point, and that's the next step. The fully constructed building on the left is 67 Bayard Street, and the building under construction is entirely fictional. Any ideas for what I can add to the construction site to make it look a little bit more... productive? I have a ladder, some plywood and crates, a table saw, what appear to be pressure washers (I'll just pretend they do welding), and there's a water heater being put in place behind the building. I don't know anyone in the construction business, so if anyone does, help would be appreciated.

Other Current Project:

I'm testing out some concepts with animation in Sketchup. Hence the background picture on the banner, which is part of the scene I plan to use. Hopefully I can expand my horizons with what I've learned with BATing beyond BATing itself. I'll see what becomes of that project.

Tutorial:

So, GuerrilaWarfare informally requested a tutorial on graffiti application. I've actually been meaning to write something on the subject for a while now, but now I can finally say I have. Because it would take up a boatload of space on the forum itself, I created a Google Doc.

>Graffiti Tutorial by Jumpthefence<

Give it a moment to load, there are a whole bunch of pictures to guide you along. Note that this probably isn't the best tutorial you'll ever see. It also isn't the best way to make graffiti. But if you're starting from square one, this is the way I do it. Also, I can't emphasize it enough: don't just learn how to make graffiti; learn how to take the techniques presented and apply them for your purposes.

Story Time (This is the part you can skip if you want):

Snow - A Lot of It!

I remember how Massachusetts was one of the last states on the Eastern Seaboard to get a lot of snow (even after Georgia!), but there's no denying that we eventually got a lot over the last month. It's the most I remember seeing since 2008. And just to illustrate my point, I'll show you a picture taken from the bottom of my driveway.

PURPLE: Today was the first day in a while where it's been both above freezing and the sun has been shining. Needless to say, there's been a lot of snowmelt.

GREEN: Anyone who doesn't own a roof rake will have some problems with leaking, insulation and frozen gutters. We borrowed one this morning, and the roof it's like night and day.

BLUE: This is the highest point on our lawn; it's a 6 foot snowpile. Thanks to you, snowplows, now it takes two people to get the snow somewhere on the pile where it won't just roll down.

RED: This is a 10 foot retaining wall. Somewhere.

YELLOW: This is actually a garden with a couple of bushes, but it's also where we pile about a third of the snow from our driveway. It's collapsed at least twice, and will probably again.

ORANGE: The driveway has been caked with ice for weeks. Don't be fooled.

And that's not even the worst of it; we've had 5 snow days so far, some schools have had 7. Meanwhile in Boston, they want to dump all their snow in the Charles River.

Townhouse Oddity:

It must have been last Tuesday (I think I was simultaneously watching Glee) that I was reading the month's Wired magazine. I got to this article about members-only bars that are hidden behind very unassuming entrances and I thought "well, that's interesting". And what do you know, there was this place called "Milk and Honey", a bar in Manhattan. But what was funny is that it's at 134 Eldridge Street, which, I swear, is a complete coincidence that it's one of the buildings I've BATed. Now, I do a bit of research for every building I make, but I've never even heard of this! I laughed for a couple minutes. Wonder if I could get in because I BATed their building... Probably not. The article's on Wired's website right here.

In Conclusion...

Okay, I'm going to wrap things up, since I'm sure all the Americans reading are also gearing up for the Super Bowl. I know I am.

I hope everyone can spend tonight with friends and family. And to those of you tuning in, enjoy the game.

[DCMetro34 576]

Chinatown 2 is looking pretty sweet if you ask me. Your level of detail with all these apartments is amazing,  something that is hard to come by.  Congrats on doing well on the exams, I recently had mine, too.

The past snow storm completely missed us down here in the South, we barely got a dusting, which still was enough for a 2 hour delay in school.

We have gotten more snow than last year though, which is a ton, especially for us. Our total so far is something like 2 feet, I think. While you guys were getting dumped on by snow, we were enjoying temps in 50s and 60s. Stange, huh?

The graffiti tutorial is awesome; I just had time to skim through it, but I'll read it in full when the times is right. Besides, I'm gearing up for the Super Bowl. Being from Baltimore, I have to go for the Packers, regardless of how much I might dislike them.

Have fun watching the game!

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Nice tutorial, and I and so glad to you that your back once again. We had some snow early last month, and the month before that, it's not as near much as the picture you have posted.

[AlexandrosB13 184]

Great tutorial. I make my graffiti with other way but this is great also. I have missed so much from here. My favourite is 80 Bayard Street. As always it has great-realistic textures and great details. Keep it up!

[Jumpthefence 74]

Wow, it's been a while since I posted here...

...1 month, 3 weeks, 3 days...

...Sigh...things have been busy.

First the Simtropolis upgrade, then I was coincidentally hit with 6 or so projects within a month (2 of which are still a work in progress), and track season started and I'm in two concerts over the course of two weeks, and side projects... etc etc. You know how it is.

Replies:

DCMetro34: Exams were okay; I ended up averaging exactly 95, and made honor roll, so that's good. The snow's mostly melted by now, but we still have piles in the woods that provide very little traction for running, and our track has two inches of ice on the shady backstretch, so we certainly can't run a quarter mile at once. Strange weather lately.

Aaron: Welcoming me back probably isn't the most fitting thing to do, considering I have a lot going on... but I have to admit, it's good to be back.

AlexandrosB13: I'm sure there are a lot of ways to make graffiti; I worked a lot with Layers for a recent project, and I bet the tutorial could be improved further using different tools such as Layers. I guess you never stop learning.

OMG! Where are your Chinatown models?

At the moment, that's kind of stalled. I exported everything, and even began modding just a bit, when I noticed this:

The sides of the stairs were showing up in the renders, which I most certainly did not want. I meant to check the Omnibus for an answer, but it was down (and I still can't see it, but that may be just me). It took me a while to find an answer, and it looks like I have to re-export with ground planes. I don't remember having to do this in the past, nor do I want to do this, but if someone could confirm that I need this, it would be appreciated. I'll probably be re-exporting with ground planes (unless there is an alternative) on Saturday.

Walk-ups Under Construction:

Things are progressing on this front. I have the second building nearly done, and the third's well underway. Which means I might have the exports of two packs overlapping, but that shouldn't be too bad.

It just needs roof junk.

Other Not-School Project:

Things are good, but it's just taking forever. I think I'll ease back on it. Although I have to say, Sketchup can do some pretty cool things.

[Link]

Irony:

The first day of track practice- within the first 25 meters- we jumped a fence to get off the track and onto the trail. I fell on my stomach on the other side. I'm usually better at jumping fences, but at least it was just a 4-foot fence.

---

I hope everyone is well; I don't know when I'll be back (hopefully soon). Enjoy the weather if it's nice!

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Looks great. I know what you mean these days I have been busy, we all get work up on life.

[DCMetro34 576]

I really like the BATs, still! And also, kudos to you for the graffiti tutorial, it was very, very helpful!

The Sketchup model looks good as well, I use Sketchup sometimes for my Drafting 1 class....I am not too good at it. We also use a free version of AutoCAD, I like that one better...even thought it's more complicated. I s'pose I never got past the learning curve of Sketchup...having only done a drawing or two.

Strange weather is for sure, it was 85 last Friday, froze last night, and we had a tornado warning a week and a half ago. On top of that, it might snow tonight. My area is normally seasonally-confused around this time of year.

  Edited April 5, 2011 by DCMetro34  

[Francis90b 748]

it's great see your progresses with the walk-ups, and to know that you fixed the problem with the fire-escape on the other model...i'm honestly glad to see you posting in your thread .

EDIT:Would you mind to tell about your sketchup project?

  Edited April 5, 2011 by Francis90b  

[Jumpthefence 74]

I would normally be unhappy about posting in a 3 month interval, but some strange stuff has been going on.

-Starting mid-late May I was getting some SQL server errors on Simtropolis, or something like that, which suspiciously seem to have resolved themselves since.

-On June 1st Western Massachusetts was hit by a tornado for the first time in decades, and though my house wasn't directly affected, a number of my friends' houses were damaged by hail, and a former acquaintance's house was hit very hard, so most of the people I know (and myself of course) have been trying to lend a hand however we can.

-Studying and important exams went from June 6th to June 24th, no surprises there.

-It just so happens that this year was my town's 250th anniversary on June 30th, so a friend and I were helping to set up and practice for a community band concert, which was yesterday.

That leaves me at July 3, which is today. I was originally going to post this all around mid-May, but that just didn't work out. That, and I find this ST7 BB Code text editor difficult to adapt to.

Replies:

Aaron Graham: Hopefully life is less busy now. I saw your status (lurking) one day about the BATing economy picking up this summer, and that's my hope right now.

DCMetro34: The version of AutoCAD you mentioned, I presume that was a student version? I used something very much like that, primarily in an 8th grade elective class, and I never got past the learning curve of it. However, I like Sketchup's learning curve; it seemed easy enough to me.

Francis90b: I like posting in the thread as much as others seem to like reading it; it's just kind of embarrassing that I used to post a lot more than I can manage now, and there's not as much for me to show(or so it seems). But I guess something, anything, is better than nothing at all. By the way, the Sketchup model eventually went on to be in video project kind of resembling a first person shooter, though I had to leave out a few elements that would have really distinguished it.

This is done.

No big deal. Done and ready for export.

This is also very close to done.

This picture is from mid-May, and I've gotten much more work done on it since (including a lot of textures), which isn't shown.

To-Do List:

???

I've been working on about 3-4 experiments and projects since early May, including a massive 200 meter by 200 meter building that I'm still trying to get a grip on. Unless I decide to work on one of those more, I'm probably going to do buildings from Harlem, which may be a change of pace from Lower Manhattan. We'll see.

I also might add:

I went to NYC for one day last weekend. I saw Lower Manhattan by boat (which was really cool) and I saw a few buildings I've BATed (which was actually really weird- I've never been to NYC since I joined NYBT). But I had a great time; I have to say, the people there are very pleasant, and it's a beautiful city.

  Edited July 3, 2011 by Jumpthefence  

[AlexandrosB13 184]

Hey! Welcome Back!

Really sad what has happened, hope you can get over it and solve all the problems ASAP.

Nice for you to be able to go to nyc, a lot of people do like crazy to go there but they cant (thats me )

I will probably have to agree that the above picture is done, it touches perfection, but is it supposed to be like that or there are no Air Conditioners (or how they are called) on the windows? And the building on the picture down is also really nice, they are both great, nice job.

Well, you are a master at these type of buildings but i would like to see a big building bated from you.

[Francis90b 748]

I hope that everything went reasonably fine with the tornado...

Despite everything, it looks like you still managed to produce something really interesting!

Both buildings look good, and i'm curious about the 200x200mtrs "monster".

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I'm really sorry about the tornado incident. I'm glad you're okay, as well as your friends. If I wasn't living in swamps and marshes down south in Lousiana I'd love to help.

Your current work looks great, and I can't wait to see more. Especially this new huge building you just mentioned...and I'd also love to see some Harlem.

[harishna 847]

Great stuff!, any chance of releasing the under-construction model(s) separately?

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Welcome Back!!!! So sorry for the tornado incident too, I hope things are getting better there.

I like the building I can't wait for the textures.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

200mx200m? If Fisher Body 21 taught me anything, it is that you MUST have good scene management. No sloppy modeling, avoid excessive object count, and always simplify geometry when you can. If you don't, it will be a "monster" to work on/with, and that sucks out a lot of the fun of modeling it.

Anyway, things are looking good. Nice to hear from you!

[DCMetro34 576]

Replies:

....

DCMetro34: The version of AutoCAD you mentioned, I presume that was a student version? I used something very much like that, primarily in an 8th grade elective class, and I never got past the learning curve of it. However, I like Sketchup's learning curve; it seemed easy enough to me.

....

It was a program called ProgeCAD, and it wasn't a student version since it was free. There is a learning curve, but it's not nearly as high as the one for 3dsMAX or BAT, at least for me. I don't think I really gotten past the 3dsMAX/BAT one still...

And I really love the new apartments; especially how you built in the construction aspect. It looks so realistic!

Oh, and welcome back!!

  Edited July 6, 2011 by DCMetro34  

[Jumpthefence 74]

Hmm... only two weeks between updates? That's got to be a fluke. Maybe a server error. Nah, that ain't happening again, ha ha, I don't have that much free time! Or do I?

I do have work this summer, between school prep and farm/garden work (which, in Massachusetts, is the same as rock collecting thanks to our unique geology), as well as side projects, but I am managing to get a good bit of BATing done as well.

Replies:

AlexandrosB13: My bad, I was missing air conditioners on that "completed" building. I probably would have added them when I did window variations, which are also not done. You know, you're really good with air conditioners and the like; your buildings always have the most detailed and abundant ones on ST. Coincidence you noticed my lack thereof? I think not!

Francis90b: Relatively interesting at least...

Sgt Pepper: Then again, your state has to deal with hurricanes, flooding, cyclones, as well as dozens of tornadoes per year (well, according to Wikipedia). And Massachusetts? Blizzards, and a tornado once in a decade. We'll be alright.

Harishna: What do you mean seperately? At the moment, I have a set of 3 Chinatown models to render, and a set of 3 under-construction models to render, which will be two seperate uploads. They're just not uploaded because I loathe rendering.

Aaron Graham: Coming right up!

Todd: I just know this monster is going to turn on me and destroy my computer's memory and CPU; I'm taking as many precautions as necessary, which is no easy task, but I'm sure it's for the better.

DCMetro34: Hmm... I don't recall using "ProgeCAD"... I must have been something else.

Final Under-Construction Model:

It's not necessarily done; I'm not completely happy with the color balance. The walls and roof of the right bulding are too light, and the windows are definitely too dark, so I'll add lighter variations. And I think the back door is missing...

Then I have to render a bunch of models? Uuuuuggggghhhhh... maybe Wednesday... I can easily distract myself on Wednesdays.

Monster:

So here's the concept, however revolutionary or incredibly moronic it may be: normally, when one places a highway cloverleaf, specifically an elevated one, there is a lot of wasted place directly around/under the interchange. This can be complemented by some overhanging props or trees, but I've never seen anything that fits to supplement the interchange in a relatively urban environment. What I'd like to do is create an overhanging prop to do just that. I'm not sure if I want to do the whole thing on a single tile; I think I'll create four variations for each corner of the interchange. However, no matter how it's cut, it's still a 200 by 200 meter monster. There's my 1% of inspiration, and now comes the perspiration.

-Here's how it's going so far (zoom 5)-

This is only a quarter of the monstrosity, and even then I'm barely into the geometry. It might take a while. The purple boxes give you an idea of the highway in relative scale, and the cloverleaf extends over the pink roof, which will be subdivided for texturing ease. The complex geometry such as the International style building's base will be changed, and photos will replace some geometry pieces.

It's not necessarily NYC-based, but it has inspiration, especially in the building styles. Therefore, it'll be in this thread, but I don't plan to talk about it a whole lot.

Any ideas, tips, or comments would be greatly appreciated for something like this.

-----

This post took me more than an hour and a half to write; I'm just not a fan of Simtropolis' BB Code Editor.

I'll post again when I feel like it. Seeya.

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Yes, looks great, and just need to fix the windows and the wall of course, but to me everything looks great.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

That "Monster" project sounds both challenging and very interesting! I think going for something as generic as possible is a good idea as well. You may find some inspiration in this massive set.

[Liberater444 11]

The Monster idea sounds fantastic!

Some suggestions I have would be:

Parking: Parking in downtown areas is tight. Even in metropolitan areas near a CBD, parking can be priceless.

Empty Concrete: With maybe some fences, cracks, and grass sprouting out, this would be a very realistic option for placing in urban areas.

Elevated grass: Think the same idea as the lots they have for the BTM. This what I'm talking about, although Google Earth does not show it well

[Jumpthefence 74]

Okay, I'm going to carpet bomb my thread, and then it's back to work.

First off:

Sorry I've been sporadic in my posting on Simtropolis; I got a new computer and at the moment I'm trying to, in essence, move a large portion of my life from a 2005 XP Compaq to a 2011 Vista Dell. Currently, I have the old computer at my desk with half a dozen attachments, so it's a pain to move. However, if I understand Moore's Law correctly, this new computer can do renders 8 times faster, which I'm psyched about seeing.

But anyways:

Aaron: Thanks!

T Wrecks: Thanks for the link, I've seen under-highway scenery in city journals, and they sure make it look cool. As for simplicity, I'm doing everything I can.

Liberater444: I already have plans to implement the first two, I'll have to see what I can do about elevated grass. Thanks for the ideas!

Chinatown:

I really had my work cut out for me with some of these Chinatown buildings, namely with the nightlighting. I decided to try the style outlined in this Omnibus article, where there are actually two variations of a building, a day scene and a night scene, and they're combined into a single model after export. One of the major pros of these extra steps is that geometry can be added to only the night scene. By doing this, I was hoping to add a garage door (at night) to the gift shop on the corner of 80 Bayard Street.

Well, long story short, everything went wrong. First I was getting some Maxis FSH files (FSH files are like picture files that construct the BAT model) mixed into my final product. I found the Texture Fix available on SC4D and that cleared everything up. Next, my nightlights weren't working, which required a few more renders with reset LODs, merged files and the like. Finally, and worst of all, the garage door was not showing up in-game. This was never resolved, and I don't know what the problem is; I think I followed the tutorial word for word. It does leave me to wonder, though, do gmax and BAT4Max render in a fundamentally different way, for which reason I can't interchange FSH files? Personally, I use gmax. If the answer is yes, I'll know where I went wrong (although I won't be getting 3dsMax anytime soon). If the answer is no, I'll see what else I can do, but I've already done at least 3 or 4 dozen renders. I'm not even exaggerating, so I just want to release these soon, as they are. The final night scene is shown below; it's not exactly what I wanted, but there are by no means any major flaws.

Walkups:

<Link>

I have to link to the final renders; the image is too large to appear on the thread itself.

Anyways, these are partly done rendering. The building in lines 1 and 4 doesn't have any transparency, so I'm not worried about it. The other two, however, have a transparent material that intersects with the background, which is something Simcity might have a problem with. As far as I know, any material below 50% opacity becomes solid, and anything over 50% becomes invisible. Anyways, I still have to run some tests to see if that's true, but I hope to release these soon, probably around the same time as the Chinatown models.

I should also note that I will be releasing these as only ploppable, because I believe growing a construction site is... just pointless.

Interchange:

I'm pretty happy with leaving it at that, with the exception being the interior of the parking garage needing more cars; I don't think I can put in every detail(although I have to see what my new computer can handle), so that's a good balance. I guess now it's onto sides 2, 3, and 4. Then I'll tackle the roof.

"Pro" Tip:

What appear to be cubicles modeled into the international style building are actually just a projected image. I created the office and cubicles in a separate model, took a picture of the render, and made a material out of it in the interchange model. Next, I applied the material to the floor of the office, rotated it 22.5 degrees couter-clockwise, and adjusted the position. There are some perspective issues, for which reason this won't work in all cases, but the building's glass obscures it just enough. It's still an idea I'm just messing around with, but it seems viable as a way to save time in rendering.

P.S. Should I post smaller updates more often, rather than these "carpet bombs" that take forever to write, read and are so few and far between? It's probably gotten out of hand if I need a break while writing a reply.

I sincerely hope everyone is well. God bless.

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

I'm glad you are learning to go custom night lighten on you bats I have did the same thing on my Gmax Graham Apartments, Timpson Pl Row, and Bainbridge Row. There are many ways of doing this, I have see a way where you do not have to export the bat two times, I think I seen it some where I wish I can find it again, if someone knows what I am talking about please post a link. I have been trying to figure this out in the middle of 2010 and I figure it out at the time there were no tutorials on such a thing, but I knew SimFox knew about it but at that time but no one really knew how to do it, now for Maszar I'm sure he knew because I think he exports his buildings using Gmax, so I knew there had to be a way, still to this day I still feel there could be a way to have muiltple zone on the same lot Residential and commercial serves, and I figured it out, but so sad I did not make a tutorial on it but I did made like a test tutorial for SimFox to look at.

Click

  Edited September 11, 2011 by Aaron Graham  

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I'm glad to see you!

I can't say much, but I like your carpet bomb replies, it gives me a lot to look at. But you'd probablly prefer smaller and frequent posts.

Everything looks great texturing and modeling wise on the China Town and construction walkup models. I like them and I think you've done a great job.

The behemoth you're doing looks interesting and coming along. I think the fence and the plaza of the international styled building is too saturated but that could be just my own preference.

Oh and by the way...did you...you did test out those diagonal areas to make sure they'd line up with the diagonal roads right? I'm just asking, I don't want you to get too far and realize something is wrong. Or is it meant for diagonal roads or interchanges at all?

[Jumpthefence 74]

Well, I’m beginning to see why I normally ‘carpet bomb’ my thread; a lot has been going on, and (for once) I mean that in a good way.

I figured out how to make building and prop families (oddly enough, there weren't any tutorials findable on ST – I might change that if I find time) and I’m excited because this creates a lot of opportunities. I also hammered out the details and numbers behind the BATing technique I used on the international building in my previous post. I’m pretty sure I want to write a tutorial for that, because I see a lot of time-saving potential.

I’m also working on the second quarter of the interchange, and I have at least one small project floating around in my head, slated to be done sometime before the new year(??). In addition, my new computer is officially up and running.

Of course, RL is being its usual self and getting in the way, but I don’t need to tell you that.

However, I only wanted to post about one thing; the Walkups under Construction have been successfully made into a building family, and they appear like this in-game (except more randomized):

They’re plopped as CS$ buildings that employ (I think) half a dozen people each. I assumed construction sites don’t need a whole lot of workers, at least not as many as a store of the same size.

Those will be up on the STEX soon (hopefully this week), in addition to the Chinatown buildings.

Replies:

Aaron: It's apparent that there are a lot of ways to do night lighting. You've gotten that method to work for you, while I'm still having some difficulty. To each his own, I suppose.

Brandon: The plaza texture was originally the Maxis open paved area that had a pale shade of pink (which I assume was further pink-shifted by Maxis to blend with the rest of the game). I changed the hue to a more suitable tan one, but it does seem awfully saturated, and bright too.

The fence color may look different after the building is rotated 45 degrees; I want to be dead-set of the geometry before I finalize textures.

And yes, the diagonals are all set. They're 16 meters on each side, and each wall section is about 22-23 meters long.

[Delecto 941]

I use very few "Newyorkers BATs" but your models are excellent!

Great work!

SAM.

[Mack The Finger 34]

I'm so excited to see your Chinatown and Walkips are being released soon! I adore your other NYC tenements/mixed use buildings, in all the neighbourhoods outside my Business districts they are used in pratically every block or two. I can't wait to add to them with these upcoming lots.