Spanisher's Modd- & Batting thread

[Spanisher 12]

Hello all. I pretend to expose some model renders which I have still not finished so that you can discuss them and advice me for posible changes or adds. Tomorrow comes a new Building on the stex...

It comes from my imaginary region. Building is called Mæderstyð:

Base image:

<- I do not own this

Day  - Night Render:

Coming out tomorrow

[TekindusT 3,809]

First of all, welcome to the forums! You're going to have fun here!

I've seen your BATs on the STEX, and I'm glad you've started a BATting thread. Your work seems promising, but you'll see how with the help of the BAT masters that will stop by here, you'll improve a lot.

By the way, I encourage you to recreate some Spanish buildings (if you feel OK with them), we've a total lack of good quality Spanish BATs here!

[Spanisher 12]

Originally posted by: TekindusT

First of all, welcome to the forums! You're going to have fun here!

I've seen your BATs on the STEX, and I'm glad you've started a BATting thread. Your work seems promising, but you'll see how with the help of the BAT masters that will stop by here, you'll improve a lot.

By the way, I encourage you to recreate some Spanish buildings (if you feel OK with them), we've a total lack of good quality Spanish BATs here!quote>

Thank  you! I have some spanish buildings already in mind.

I didnt like so much the enlightenment from the bat above  and I have started new to put lights into the building. So here is the new image

[madhatter106 3,903]

Originally posted by: Spanisher

Coming out tomorrow

quote>

Better to say "coming out when it's fully critiqued, done, and ready," as it gives people a chance to comment and for you to receive helpful hints to improve.  

The  modelling is good.  However, it looks like the nightlighting is spilling out all over the the flat surfaces, making them super bright and pale and washed out...

[Francis90b 748]

Actually there is much more than nightlightings...proportions (between wall mass and window openings, on window height-widht, on small details) are really different between the building you picked as a reference and your model.

You might want to add some floors, check back proportions and re-model some of the small elements (e.g cornices around the windows and between one floor and another, windows themselves, window frames, ornaments on the top of the building).

Texturing needs some more tweakings as well, but right now i don't believe this is the main problem.

All in all that's a nice try, but definately not ready to be on the STEX tomorrow, as you said.

[Spanisher 12]

Originally posted by: Francis90b

Actually there is much more than nightlightings...proportions (between wall mass and window openings, on window height-widht, on small details) are really different between the building you picked as a reference and your model.

You might want to add some floors, check back proportions and re-model some of the small elements (e.g cornices around the windows and between one floor and another, windows themselves, window frames, ornaments on the top of the building).

Texturing needs some more tweakings as well, but right now i don't believe this is the main problem.

All in all that's a nice try, but definately not ready to be on the STEX tomorrow, as you said.

quote>

Well I wasn't trying to make it equal...I just took some textures and a base idea for my project. It would be a bit stupid not putting the same floor numbers if we wanted an equal one,  isn't it? Respect to proportions, it's the same thing, I have kept some proportions and also some have been deleted. just as the high. Anyway thank you for obserbing

[harishna 847]

I think for Francis90b is clear that you are not copying the exact building as he used the term "reference". I think that what Francis90b meant is that your model doesn't look natural it looks kinda bulky and rough. Next time try to be less rude Spanisher I know English is not your language but even so, I suggest you not to take comments so personal and try to be open to be criticized, as this is usually with the porpouse of improving the quality of your models.

Keep the good work I think your models have a lot of potencial, just don't rush it take your time! Saludos

[SimFox 801]

I think we all should refrain from commenting on each other tone. One reason - English in snot native tongue for many, second - such comments had become a stick with which real criticism and serious discussion had been effectively beated out from many forums. The stupid motto "let's be nice" had effectively castrated lots of topics. Every one here should be prepared to the fact that his/her opinion will be questioned. Of course it would be good if that would be done in civilized eg to the point way, but I would rather suffer few rude words taht have a "nice" swamp where all life (intellectual) has been smoothed out of existence by that "niceness".

Spanisher:

"Well I wasn't trying to make it equal..." it is a very lame excuse. Lame and counterproductive.

First of all if your model is not to be judged by the original, why to show that original in the first place and specifically mentioned that it gonna be based on it?

Second, using such an excuse is like saying well I can't do it but I wouldn't admit it. Rather invent something "nice" to cover inability and expect that everyone will also be "nice" and large pink elephant in the room will go unnoticed. Problem is that the fact that nobody will mention that elephant will not prevent it to smash everything around - first of all the model itself. And only when the existence of such elephant is acknowledged something could be done to tame and finally remove it from the premises. You want it, don't you?

I would strongly recommend you to follow that model you have shown as close as possible. And judge you work on how well it does so. It is a great learning tool to train your talent to follow specific task. rather that just "enjoy" what ever "accident" that will come out. Without it you'll never really progress or learn. Because what ever mistake, failure will be proclaimed a victory of "originality" and inability to make basic things - "a style".

Quite a few people here would be prepared to help you. But that will only be effective if you your self is prepared to walk the way...

[harishna 847]

My comment was more related to the "I know better" attitude, SimFox I mostly agree with you but unfortunately the way we present our opinions affect how people perceive our message and sometimes the core of the message may be lost just by the way is presented, and since this is not the subject of this thread I'll refrain from further comment on this.

[madhatter106 3,903]

Well, looks like you've ignored most of what has been said, and gone ahead and posted this to the STEX already. A shame, really, as this model was a good start, but not yet done or complete enough to share.

I will refrain from rating or commenting on it there, since my rating/comment will not be as glowing as you might like.

And I also question the validity of this BAT thread - if you're just going to use this as a preview of what you post, and will not listen to or apply the constructive criticism that is given here by others, then what is the point of the thread?

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

I can only second (or third or fourth) everyone's opinions here. Slow down, pay special attention to the details and proportions, and only release it when it is finished. This goes for every project. The first model looks fantastic because it has all of the proper elements working in harmony with each other, the scale and number of each element is correct, and the details are well represented. It should serve as a guide for what your model needs to include. You may be unable to make certain objects, and that's fine, don't include them, but keep the proportions and orientation of everything else the same!

You have potential, I'll be keeping an eye on this.

-Todd

[Spanisher 12]

What began being a show and discuss topic has recently been transformed into something else it wasnt supposed too. Yes, I have uploaded the Building as shown above without the OK from most of you. But Id like to remember thats not necessary. Ill like to post some new Buildings as they come but I wont  if my comments are discussed  and someone writes the biggest  paragraph ever full of lessons about how should I behave or answer someone. I accept every comment as they come, but I still have the right to answer it. I uploaded the Building because I thought it was ok and it was time to start something else new. There is no need to get angry therefore.  And about my English, thats not to be critized... as one learn a good number of langs, they start mixing  each other...

Lets keep this a Bat thread

[Francis90b 748]

Let's go to the main topic of my reply....what does "reference" mean?

You pick a building as a reference if you like it's feeling.

Proportions, details and number of elements are really important in determining the building's "personality" and appearence.

I can pick as an example the model i'm currently working on and the building i've picked as a "reference" (shameless self promotion).

The building is the petroleum building in Fort Worth, TX.

This was the process:

-i did some searches for the building history and downloaded as many pics as possible

-i asked myself about what i liked on it and wheter  wanted to make an exact re-creation of it or i wanted to have the freedom to change some things here and there and therefore making something similar but different.

-I liked the proportions between the parts, the small details on the pillars, the ornaments on the penthouse (the small turret at the top of the building) but on the other hand i didn't like the ornaments on the spandrels and the lobby of the building (i wanted to make it taller), so i decided for the 2nd option and i've picked this building as a reference and not for a re-creation.

-i've measured it on google earth.It measured roughly 30,8x30,8 mtrs.

using the pics i've downloaded i took the proportions of the building...i've found out that taking the lenght of the small pillar as the standard measure the windows were 3 times larger and the large pillars weew 4 times larger.In the same way i did measure the height of the windows and the vertical distance between them, and i did found out that the window height was six time our "standard measure" (or twice the window lenght) and that the vertical distance between one window and the one above or below it was 1,25 times the window lenght.

-One facade of this building is made by six large pillars that divides 5 groups of 3 windows,.Each group of windows is divided by two small pillars.So ((6x4)+((3x3)x5)+(2x5)=24+45+10=79. and 6+4=10.this means that a facade is 79 times the "standard measures" and each "level" was 10 times taller (as "level" i mean the vertical height between one window and the other together with the window height)

-i've then considered the footprint i wanted to give to my building in SC4.I wanted my building to fit together with the models of some other people and i wanted to create a small alley behind it.Therefore my "footprint", or the room i could assign for this building in a SC4 LOT was much less than 30,8 x 30,8 mtrs (the maximum size was actually of 28,15 x 28,15).

-i've divided that number (28,15 mtrs) for the total lenght i did find out before (79 times one small pillar).I had to find out a measure that had a maximum of three decimals (n,nnn) but i did find out this result: 28,15/79 =0,3563291139240506

- Therefore i had to find out a Least common multiple that was as closer as possible to 28.150 (28.150 millimeters).

with trials and errors i did find out that 28,124:79=356, that is that one small pillar had to be 35,6 centimeters long for a total facade lenght of 28,124 mtrs.

-I did multiply this measure (35,6 cm) for the total height of the "level".So 35,6x10=3,56.

-Now, in SC4 "floors" are usually 4 mtrs tall, and can be much taller.My "floor" was only 3,56 mtrs taller, and perhaps my building wouldn't have fit well into SC4 with floors being that short.

-As i've said before, i liked the proportions between the parts of this building.How could I achieve a decent "floor" height while leaving proportions unaltered?

-I've decided to delete some windows and some pillars.this way i could divide my "28,15 mtrs footprint" for a smaller number and make my "floors" taller.Also, i had to leave some room for the extruding pillars outside the facade (IRL no walls is completely flat, there might be cornices or columns or pillars or whatever extruding from the "wall").

-After making some sketches and drafts i've decided that the best solution was to cut out one window and one pillar from the 2nd and the 4th groups of windows.Therefore i had 3 groups with 3 windows, 2 groups with two windows, 8 small pillars and 6 large ones, so: (3x3x3+3x2x2+8+6x4 plus 1 more ""standard measure" used for the extruding elements of the other facade)=27+12+8+24+1=72.

-i did repeat the same method i've used before (LCM, divisions and multiplications) and this time i could achieve a "floor" height of 3,9 for a footprint sixe of 28,08.

I did some further modifications to that and i've ended up with this:

It is pretty clear that my building is not a re-creation of the existing one i've posted above, and is pretty different indeed.

Now, i can't judge my own work, but i've shown the "reference" building to some persons and they were fine about it's scaling-proportions.And i know those persons as honest ones, persons who don't pretend to ignore a "large pink elephant" when they see one.

By writing all of this i don't want to make some cheap moralism, that wouldn't be helpful for anyone.I did want to tell you about "my" method, that you can agree with or not.

Now, which method had you used?

What do you like about the model you've used as a reference?

What would you like to change instead?

What would you want to achieve?

My forst post was much less clear than this one, and maybe more aggressive, but i believed (and i still believe) that you need to ask yourself those questions and decide what to do before uploading.And as for the tone, i preferred not to ignore the "large pink elephant" i did see in your work, even if this meant being harsh.Hope yoy didn't take it too personally, as well as i hope that this last post could help.

EDIT:what a fool...i did write this before noticing that:

Originally posted by: Spanisher

What began being a show and discuss topic has recently been transformed into something else it wasnt supposed too. Yes, I have uploaded the Building as shown above without the OK from most of you. But Id like to remember thats not necessary. Ill like to post some new Buildings as they come but I wont  if my comments are discussed  and someone writes the biggest  paragraph ever full of lessons about how should I behave or answer someone. I accept every comment as they come, but I still have the right to answer it. I uploaded the Building because I thought it was ok and it was time to start something else new. There is no need to get angry therefore.  And about my English, thats not to be critized... as one learn a good number of langs, they start mixing  each other...

Lets keep this a Bat thread

quote>

Well, the ok might not be necessary, but we have the right to give our opinion and, while you have all the right to answer, you should at least consider what we say.A bat thread is where you show your works in order to get suggestions, not asspats.That's not the right place for asspats.We are not fans or devoted followers without the right to criticize.It is our right to write paragraph full of lessons about what you should do, that's how a BAT thread work.Then you can reply, follow advices or not,But we have the right to answer, and that's how a BAT thread is supposed to be.

In short, "lets keep it a BAT thread".

[Spanisher 12]

First I would like to know WHO has deleted this Building from the stex and WHY....

[Francis90b 748]

Only admins. mods or uploaders themselves can "delete" something from the STEX.Oh, and mods and admins can delete a file from the STEX only with valid reason (e.g the upload breaks some rules, was something else's work uploaded without permission, is a troll uplod).

I suspect that the STEX got a little clogged (as it might happen from time to time) so your upload hadn't been processed or is processing at a much slower pace due to this.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Try sending a PM to one of the STEX moderators. The moderators are listed on the STEX page under the "top uploaders" section on the right hand side of the page. They should be able to help you.

[Spanisher 12]

Originally posted by: Jasoncw

Try sending a PM to one of the STEX moderators. The moderators are listed on the STEX page under the "top uploaders" section on the right hand side of the page. They should be able to help you. quote>

Indeed I did it. Apparently there was a problem with the special characters æ and ð but I have reuploaded it rightnow.

Maederstydh Building

[SimFox 801]

I see you did...

And I wonder... don't you see how nightlighting is completely screwed on it? I mean this is not a matter of taste really, like the actual modeling of teh building, this is just wrong done. Plane as that!

Another Pink Elephant? Or would you say that you specially made it like this? If so, may I ask why did you decide to make you light to leak endlessly through what appears to be solid walls?

[Spanisher 12]

Originally posted by: SimFox

I see you did...

And I wonder... don't you see how nightlighting is completely screwed on it? I mean this is not a matter of taste really, like the actual modeling of teh building, this is just wrong done. Plane as that!

Another Pink Elephant? Or would you say that you specially made it like this? If so, may I ask why did you decide to make you light to leak endlessly through what appears to be solid walls?quote>

I love you too

[Francis90b 748]

Spanisher, please respect any and all of the other people posting here.

[Spanisher 12]

Originally posted by: Francis90b

Spanisher, please respect any and all of the other people posting here.

quote>

I just said  something pretty ironic....that respects everyone

[bixel 1,223]

Night lights are tough, looks like you are using an Omni light. Try doing a preview render with some spotlights, and make sure shadows is checked (area shadows). Not sure if gmax gives you different shadow options. Just keep modelling and you will learn new tricks. Also see if you can hunt down the simtropolis tools 1.4 script - works in gmax or 3ds max - place it in script startup folder in the gmax folder. I think it comes with Bat4Max but I am not sure. The script is super handy for automizing a couple of things like nightwindows and renameing objects.

[Spanisher 12]

Originally posted by: bixel

Night lights are tough, looks like you are using an Omni light. Try doing a preview render with some spotlights, and make sure shadows is checked (area shadows). Not sure if gmax gives you different shadow options. Just keep modelling and you will learn new tricks. Also see if you can hunt down the simtropolis tools 1.4 script - works in gmax or 3ds max - place it in script startup folder in the gmax folder. I think it comes with Bat4Max but I am not sure. The script is super handy for automizing a couple of things like nightwindows and renameing objects.quote>

I have taken profit from beeing a university student and I got 3dsmax 2011 and have already installed bat4max. So that means I would like to stop batting in gmax, just extracting lods.... and start with max 2011..so may I have it with the tools from bat4max.

[SimFox 801]

With Max you don't need them... Max itself has built-in tools that are far superior to those. Take time and work through the tutorials that come with Max to learn the basics and you'll be good to go.

After you start Max with Bat4Max it should be all set, but, you may need to open Gamma and LUT tab in Customize -> Settings and just click OK without changing anything there. There is some sort of bug in Maxscript that prevent settings made by it to come to force without this step. You'll ever need to do it only once.

[Spanisher 12]

Well, I think its time to show something here. Im currently working in copy of a gas station from my city, a Repsol gas station.

First the real pics

And now a pic of the current model:

Edit: Forgot to upload the render

[harishna 847]

Looking good! I like the overall shape, can I make just one suggestion? maybe changing the distance between columns and pumps, I think in the photo you showed the main building (where the pumps are) is wider (larger in the y directon than x, in your model is the oposite) and there seem to be a little bit more of space in between things, I also think the columns should be a little bit narrower to help it look less "crowded".

[Spanisher 12]

Originally posted by: harishna

Looking good! I like the overall shape, can I make just one suggestion? maybe changing the distancecolumns and pumps, I think in the photo you showed the main building (where the pupms are) is wider (larger in the y directon than x, in your model is the oposite) and there seem to be a little bit more of space in between things, I also think the columns should be a little bit narrowe to help it look less "crowded".

quote>

I agree you! I noticed the roof plane isnt as long as Ive made it, so I made it smaller and modified the columns.

I also added the logo

[Slashback 136]

Don't forget to make it growable! I would love to have this in my game.

[TekindusT 3,809]

In my opinion, it's looking very nice; but it still lacks some more details like the kerbs and some more texturing on the shop. And on a more personal opinion, I love when real life billboards look good, they add an incredible amount of realism. Try to make the Repsol sign with the original italic font and to look for that stylized "S"...

When you're done with the model (and nighlighting!), maybe you could m two lot versions for the station, a rural one (like the one in your pictures) and an urban one, without all these dirt grass...

¡Saludos a Mallorca!

[harishna 847]

Great improvement you are quite fast, I wish I could improve my models that fast...I agree with TkindusT especially the textures...other than that it is starting to look fantastic.