World Affairs

[airman15 4,111]

^They do have a military. Most of their weaponry however is imported (Ex. their primary fighter, the CF-188 is the same as an F-18 Hornet with some modifications) from other countries and from what I have heard, they help fight with coalition forces in some conflicts that have happened or are still going on.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Does Canada have an army and if it does does it actually do much. I never seem to hear about anything to do with Canada's military and anyway isn't its military closely related to Englands due to its status as a commonwealth member.

I guess you weren't paying attention to the Afghanistan affair. We were on the pointy end in Helmand province for years. We just pulled out and closed out our base at Kandahar. We lost over 100 men in this mess. We passed the command to the U.S. Army in July. We are keeping a set of "advisors" in Kabul as training cadre for the ANA and the Police forces.

As a result of the deaths in Afghanistan, we now have a section of the TransCanada Highway between Trenton (CFB) and Toronto (coroner's office) called The Highway of Heroes. People stand on the bridges to honor these ladies and gentlemen.

Speaking of Kandahar, with the closing of our base, the American troops lost one of their favorite watering holes. We packed up our Tim Horton's operation and took it home. After the U.S. surge last year it was very popular because the U.S. Army closed the canteen area to get the space for barracks.

Canadian forces are the world's first set of peacekeepers. It all started after WW II in Cyprus. Things were a lot looser then. The Turks attacked a Greek village, so we walked our artillery though the Turkish village. They got the message. If you've never heard of the peacekeeping efforts, it is because it was always under the UN flag. We don't like it, but we do it. Lester Pearson, past Prime Minister and past President of the UN General Assembly got a Nobel Peace Prize for efforts of our peacekeepers when he was still Prime Minister.

We've been in nearly all UN peacekeeping operations since 1950. We were some of the first who got a case of gone to Korea. I know several vets. If I had graduated a year earlier, I'd have been there.

The Royal Canadian Navy was the third largest navy in the world at the end of WWII. It is hardly a yacht club now, but our Coast Guard keeps a set of ice breakers that are the envy of the world. One of them (at least) is nuclear powered.

The Royal Canadian Air Force provided the training grounds for the RAF during WW II. Our big base at Cold Lake, Alberta runs a combat jet training center used by most of the world's governments to train their people. There is something to be said for wide open spaces. The RCAF runs the Search and Rescue programme in Canada in concert with the Canadian Coast Guard. The aerobatic team is called The Snowbirds. They will be flying this weekend at the Canadian National Exhibition in Toronto.

Being a member of the Commonwealth of Nations gives us the ability to have relatively small forces because we have allies all over the globe. However, we are not short of good people. You probably never heard of JTF1 (Joint Task Force 1) which was a set of our commandos and some U.S. Rangers who went ashore at Anzio in WW II and ran a reign of terror on the German troops. They used to slip in at night, kill a few officers in horrible manners and leave some sleepers with notes pinned to their chests saying "Sie sind folgend" (You are next). The successors of these guys is JTF2. I can't say anything about them as it is super secret and many people don't even know they exist. I've no idea, for example, who they are joint with, but considering our involvement in NORAD it is probably at least with the U.S.

Perhaps you've never heard of the Avro Arrow. In the 1950s it was the most advanced fighter aircraft in existence. The then Prime Minister, in a pique of rage over the cost overruns, canceled the project and ordered all six prototypes, plans and specifications destroyed. If you want to talk about conspiracy theories, this one is a lulu. Most of the people who worked at A.V. Roe wound up at NASA. There is an apocryphal story of the One That Got Away. If it is in a barn in Alberta, it will never fly now. Its technology has been scattered throughout the aerospace industry (you can't erase brains), and has been thoroughly overtaken now. But this put us out of the Aerospace business, but we still have the Canadarm on the ISS. The developer, SPAR Aerospace has recently been acquired by some U.S. outfit.

So watch out for the beavers. If you back us into a corner, we'll bite you.

  Edited September 5, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[Jamesrules90 133]

Wow I never knew canada was so involved with the miltary. In England we never hear about miltary deaths in Afghanistan which aren't English (not even the BBC news website tells you about them) it also sounds like Canada has been on the rise from a military viewpoint although the United Kingdom is on the decline with all the lay offs, the fact we now share our aircraft carriers with the French, the end of the Harrier and all of the ships being decommissioned.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Actually, we've been winding down since WW II. It was just lucky we hadn't completely demobbed at the time of the Korean war, but we had to have a kind of draft to get enough troops to go there, The heavy lifting over there was done by the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry (PPCLI or Princess Pat's) based in Calgary. The South Koreans think of our guys the same as the Dutch do after we liberated them and didn't rape all the women. Of course, Queen Juliana lived in Montreal during the war. There are photos of her shopping in the markets in a cloth coat and bandanna looking like any other Quebecoise.

We keep a very low profile, militarily. After sending a big lot of our people over to blighty to help you out and holding on to thousands of German POWs, we decided we wanted to cool it. All that convoy duty in tin-pot corvettes made our navy very strong, and the traditions live on, but the ships are mostly all gone. One of our big frigates (HMCS Charlottetown) just got back from Libya. It was actually fired on, over there to the discomfort of the attackers. There was a fantastic welcome back at Dartmouth (Halifax) by both the families and the Libyan community here.

If you get a chance to hop across the channel, drop in on the Juno Beach memorial museum if you want a look at what we did in the D-Day landings. Seems we had the highest penetration off the beach that day. And while you are there, drop in to the Vimy Memorial in Belgium. It is Canadian territory, ceded to us for the monument. We became a truly independent country at Vimy. The fields at the Somme were watered with the blood of the Newfoundland Regiment, and they were just a colony at the time. Didn't join confederation until 1949.

My father was in the RCA and served in London from about 1942 to 1946.

Ask any high-ranking officer in your army what they think of the Canadians. If he is honest, you'll get quite a story.

  Edited September 5, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Libya: The escape?

If these guys get away into other African countries, we can expect years of guerilla warfare, yes? Time for a lot of pressure on these governments.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Libya: The escape?

If these guys get away into other African countries, we can expect years of guerilla warfare, yes? Time for a lot of pressure on these governments.

Not if thier in hiding. And if Gaddafi is captured it may be all over for these guys any way.

this is worrisome.

Turkey freezes all ties with Israel

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

this is worrisome.

Turkey freezes all ties with Israel

Well, Turkey has said they will provide a naval escort for the flotilla to Gaza. This could be an opening to a full scale, Turkey-led, Islamic war with Israel. If that happens, I hope NATO kicks Turkey the hell and gone out.

I hope the cooler heads will prevail, but one must admit the arbitrary actions of the IDF and the Israeli government together with the militancy of the radicals have provoked trouble. The Israelites are just asking to be stamped out again.

The Balfour declaration was one of history's greatest errors. I am afraid that it was far to soon to rush into a settlement for the diaspora. It might be done now, but certainly not in 1948 when all the pro-Nazi sentiment was still so high in the area. Both the Brits and the UN get to carry the can for this one.

"Life is short."

"But the years are long."

"Not while the evil days come not."

Password of the Howard Society.

Robert A. Heinlein in Methuselah's Children.

  Edited September 7, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[airman15 4,111]

China has shut down one of their solar plants after 4 days of protests. Apparently villagers and locals claim the plant was causing air and water pollution and as a result the operator shut it off.

(Source- Los Angeles Times)

  Edited September 19, 2011 by usfighter15  

[Meg 368]

Does Canada have an army and if it does does it actually do much. I never seem to hear about anything to do with Canada's military and anyway isn't its military closely related to Englands due to its status as a commonwealth member.

Of course, Canada has an army. There are a couple of thousand Canadian troops in Afghanistan now.

[RipRap 4,400]

Does Canada have an army and if it does does it actually do much. I never seem to hear about anything to do with Canada's military and anyway isn't its military closely related to Englands due to its status as a commonwealth member.

Of course, Canada has an army. There are a couple of thousand Canadian troops in Afghanistan now.

As A Nonny Moose Said, Canada is pulling out of Afghanistan...

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Does Canada have an army and if it does does it actually do much. I never seem to hear about anything to do with Canada's military and anyway isn't its military closely related to Englands due to its status as a commonwealth member.

Of course, Canada has an army. There are a couple of thousand Canadian troops in Afghanistan now.

As A Nonny Moose Said, Canada is pulling out of Afghanistan...

You could say that we got sick of being on the pointy end, and want our NATO partners to step up to the plate. The European partners with few exceptions are a bunch of chickens.

We are keeping some people around as training cadres for the ANA and the Police forces, as well as some civics people.

[airman15 4,111]

Shocking news in Afghanistan: Peace Council head killed in attack

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Shocking news in Afghanistan: Peace Council head killed in attack

Terrorism is like that. Whoever was responsible (Taliban, probably) simply reinforces my opinion that Afghanistan is for the Afghanis.

[airman15 4,111]

We really have done all we could for others, but now everybody should go home and let other nations solve their own problems. This especially goes to efforts in Libya.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

We really have done all we could for others, but now everybody should go home and let other nations solve their own problems. This especially goes to efforts in Libya.

We (Canada) have just agreed to extend the Libyan adventure for three more months. Things are not quite peaceful there.

[airman15 4,111]

New developments in Iraq:

Iraqi Government buys eighteen F-16 jet fighters from USA.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

New developments in Iraq:

Iraqi Government buys eighteen F-16 jet fighters from USA.

Do you suppose that means that the Iraqis are to be trusted with modern arms or the the military/industrial complex is just being its usual greedy self?

[Easy Bakes 253]

Selling to both sides is standard procedure for arms.

[airman15 4,111]

Do you suppose that means that the Iraqis are to be trusted with modern arms or the the military/industrial complex is just being its usual greedy self?

I haven't put much thought into what Iraq has been doing recently, but I personally don't trust them with an advanced fighter. Before the War on Terror they were known for incidents like invading Kuwait and picking a fight with Iran. Taking these incidents into account and what could possibly happen in the future we may have given a problem child a .45 caliber handgun

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Selling to both sides is standard procedure for arms.

Yes. Do you remember why Texaco sponsored the Metropolitan Opera broadcasts? They were caught selling oil to Germany after 1941. FDR laid the condition on them as an act of contrition.

[airman15 4,111]

^Certain weapons really should only be trusted to a small handful of people. What it all boils down to is what the intentions are of the ones who receive the weapons. The US has made the mistake of selling the wrong weapons to the wrong people in the past. For example, we sold F-16's and F-15's to Israel and then they used those weapons to commit attacks all over the middle east such as demolishing a nuclear reactor in Iraq or participating in wars against Lebanon in both 1982 and 2006.

The US should be a tad more careful in selling weapons abroad because we're not sure what our customers are going to do with the weapons we sell.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

And now what do we do with weapons dealers like the U.S. military/industrial complex that is chasing the buck down the street. We all deplore clandestine weapons dealers who deal in stolen weapons, but what about the so called legal dealers? In an ideal world, trading weapons by anyone should be classed as a crime against humanity.

The hegemony of the United States of America is no better than the nineteenth century empires except that the emperor seems to be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. What could the President do if this guy really got the bit in his teeth? I think you are within a baby-hair of a military dictatorship.

[airman15 4,111]

^Plus, considering that we are the world's unneeded police force venturing in wars we have no business in fighting, you have a point. It seems we US citizens have let the government get seriously out of hand. We used to have the power to control what the government does, but at one point in time we gave away that power and now the ones with authority can do whatever they want. I bet with the turmoil happening, people will get fed up and start fighting in the streets sooner or later and the government would have no choice but to bring the armed forces home to calm people down...

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ It isn't unrest in the streets you need. You need to do something with the current set of hoods and boodlers in congress. It is hung up on political posturing, and needs to be flushed out and replaced with the new set. And when you pull the chain, you need to make it abundantly clear why this is happening to those fools in their comfortable pews.

The opportunity is coming with the 2012 election, and the time to start the flush them out campaign is now. The principle of your legislative body is compromise and get it done, not dig in your heels come hell or high water.

As an outside observer in a country that did that in our last election, what you have now is sad, but fixable.

[Cobraroll 138]

Do you suppose that means that the Iraqis are to be trusted with modern arms or the the military/industrial complex is just being its usual greedy self?

I haven't put much thought into what Iraq has been doing recently, but I personally don't trust them with an advanced fighter. Before the War on Terror they were known for incidents like invading Kuwait and picking a fight with Iran. Taking these incidents into account and what could possibly happen in the future we may have given a problem child a .45 caliber handgun

I just feel like pointing out that the Iran/Iraq-war and the invasion of Kuwait were both done under Saddam. The management has shifted since then (there was a war, remember?). The guys who took the decisions are dead or in prison now. It's not like it was the country itself that went on a rampage. It's a little like blaming modern-day Germany for the Holocaust, or, heck, modern-day Denmark for the attack on Lindisfarne.

I'm not sure if I'd call modern-day Iraq an ally of the Western world, but the country certainly has a different view on its neighbours compared to ten years ago.

And not claiming to be a plane expert, I don't think the F-16 is considered a very advanced fighter by today's standards. Even our military is trying to replace theirs.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ I don't think the status of any country is relevant. Trade in weapons should be anathema. The U.S. is, as usual, setting a bad example.

[hym 358]

When the F-16 came out, it was an advanced fighter jet, but the technology has passed it by and the F-16's days are numbered (just like the F-14 before it). Case in point: The US and India held a war games exercise several years ago. The US Air Force was using F-16's and, as I remember, the Indian military was sporting the latest Russian fighter jet. The Indian military won the exercise. When asked about it later, a US Air Force commander commented, "It's not that the Indian pilots are so much better than the American pilots. The problem is that their aircraft is capable of maneuvers that the F-16 simply can't perform. If we had been using a more advanced fighter like the F-22, we would have won without a contest, but the F-22 isn't in widespread use, so we opted to use the F-16 instead." (I'm paraphrasing that quote as best I can remember it.)

[airman15 4,111]

It all comes down to 3 factors of each jet to determine the winner:

-Weight/Maneuverability

-Avionics

-Basic design of the jet

And for this one, I will be comparing the F-16 Falcon with MiG-29 Fulcrum to see where each jet's advantage succeeds against the other.

The F-16 was built for the Air Force as a lightweight fighter because many were concerned that the F-15 Eagle was too heavy/bulky to be a dogfighter. The F-16 prototype competed with a jet known as the YF-17 Cobra (This would later be developed into the F-18 Hornet) to be lightweight and maneuverable. An F-16's empty weight is 18,900 lbs or 8,570 kg compared to the MiG-29's empty weight of 24,250 lb or 11,000 kg. In terms of Avionics, range and lock-on capabilities are essential because you want to lock on and shoot down the enemy before he does to you. The F-14 and F-15 were so successful because of having a long range and being able to down aircraft before the other pilot could see them. F-16's overall have a superior set of avionics (newer ones have helmet mounted displays so the pilot can lock on aircraft from extreme positions and missiles that can shoot in any direction) whereas a majority of MiG-29's still have a conventional cockpit with a look-down/shoot-down capability. But the basic design is where the MiG has the Falcon beat. The F-16 gets it's single engine design from trying to save money and time to build, maintain and deploy. But having only one engine limits its thrust-to-weight ratio and the chines along the sides of the cockpit aren't sufficient enough to alter it's combat turn radius to out-turn the MiG-29. The Fulcrum has large chines and two engines and this is why the Fulcrum out performed the Falcon in India. Both the Falcon and Fulcrum are excellent fighters but the MiG is better when it comes to close-quarters fighting.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

You guys don't get the message. The U.S., nor any of us, should not be selling military hardware to anybody. It doesn't matter whether the technology is obsolete to us. Any one or even a coalition of these "allies" could turn on us at any time. No point in giving the dog a dental job.

The problem with the foreign policy is that it is too black and white. You have foes and friends. Some countries should be considered to be acquaintances. With the current mess in the middle east, we should refrain from arming what may become an opposing camp.

There is far, far too much expenditure on military hardware on our side but we shouldn't be trying to make a buck by selling the surplus. There shouldn't be any surplus.

A lot of the so, so necessary military expenditure would look much better refurbishing sewers, roads, and bridges and installing better rail communications. It would also look good doing research on getting rid of our dependence on petroleum for fuels and thinking about how to survive the global warming resulting rise in sea levels.

We are in a fight for our lives, and it is not one that will be solved by throwing warm bodies at it nor flinging around steel and lead. All those young, strong bodies and new thinking heads would look better at home doing something productive.

[hym 358]

You guys don't get the message. The U.S., nor any of us, should not be selling military hardware to anybody. It doesn't matter whether the technology is obsolete to us. Any one or even a coalition of these "allies" could turn on us at any time. No point in giving the dog a dental job.

The message is well understood. Even the policy makers get it. But there is always going to be armed conflict and there will always be arms dealers. One might as well sell the stuff that is obsolete or commonplace, while maintaining sole ownership of the really advanced stuff. This is more or less how the US handles its arms sales. If you want common stuff that there is little concern will fall into the wrong hands, you can buy it. However, if you're looking for something significantly more advanced, like the F-22 Raptor for example, you can forget getting your hands on it, even if you're an allied country.