World Affairs

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If the North doesn't like it, they should ignore it. As for the South, they should watch where they put things because it could lead to conflicts like this...

Well, you see the North is a failed communist (godless) state, and the South just loves the point that out.

[airman15 4,111]

And the two Koreas just keep chewing each other out in an ongoing conflict. It seems like the Korean Conflict is a reincarnation of the Hundred Years war (England v France plus surrounding territories between 1337 and 1453)

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ Yup. This is another piece of ideological fiction that was dreamed up after Korea (Chösen) was taken back from the Japanese after WW II, and became half-communist thanks to the policies of Uncle Joe (Stalin) and the exhaustion of the remaining allies. It divided a people without regard to what they wanted. Churchill wanted to take on the Reds but the Truman didn't have the stomach for it. It would have made sense for the ministry of tube alloys to deliver a package to Moscow, in spite of the nice architecture.

There were enough stupidities committed by the allies after the war to fill history books for the rest of the century. Korea was only a drop in the bucket compared to the gross error made by the Brits in giving Viet Nam back to the Frogs. Uncle Ho thought he had a deal with the Brits then he was double crossed. The whole Vietnamese war would have been avoided if the Foreign Office had been brought up to date. At the same time, David Balfour's think piece should have been filed under W.

About the only good thing that happened after the war was the occupation of Japan. It put them on the track to where they are today, but now it seems they have blotted their copy book again. Unlimited growth and acceptance of too much technology in a resource poor country has really messed them up. If the economic situation in the west gets much worse they will be having import troubles because there will be nothing available.

Of course, the biggest mistake the allies made was the Atlantic Charter. Look at what a mess the UN has made over the years. As a standardization body they have done well, but as an international force for peace, they really have failed in many ways. The permanent membership in the security council is obsolete now, but they cling to power, if it can be called power. Really just a big international debating society. Ever since the Korean incident, which is still ongoing by the way, they have been rather too much of a waffling group.

[un1 41]

Churchill wanted to take on the Reds but the Truman didn't have the stomach for it. It would have made sense for the ministry of tube alloys to deliver a package to Moscow, in spite of the nice architecture.

No, doing that would've been completely stupid. Truman was right here. The USSR wouldn't have died without killing hundreds of millions and completely burning everything in the world to the ground. The Soviet Union wouldn't have fallen easily either, the country is too vast to nuke to the ground and invade, and they had the resources, as they showed in WW2, to build a huge military in a few years and mobilize it quickly while using the advantage of the winter to starve enemies. A war with the Soviets would've been horrible for both sides.

The US and allies might've had a chance to win a war against the USSR and allies before they found nuclear weapon technology and before they rebuilt after WW2...but after that and until 91 the USSR wouldn't have fallen without a massive and bloody fight. I'm sure that a large hole would've been blown out of the Earth's population had the Cold War escalated into a real war.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

High technology can increase efficiency so a country can do and make more with less resources.

[airman15 4,111]

And with new technology spawns new ideas to be altered to gain an advantage against your rivals. And situations like these normally evolve into arms races if political competitors are involved in this case

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ The basic problem is that ethics follows a long way back in the technology race. New technologies are often used for the aggrandizement of the wrong cause before the sober second thought can catch up to it.

[airman15 4,111]

^ Just like the in the Great War, the Germans used gas to exterminate enemies and it took several years for other leaders to step in and make it to where no one can use it in an armed conflict

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ Just like the in the Great War, the Germans used gas to exterminate enemies and it took several years for other leaders to step in and make it to where no one can use it in an armed conflict

Such agreements are on paper and not all the nations in the world are signatories. The Geneva convention on prisoners of war has the same flaw.

As long as nations exist on this ball of dirt, we will continue to have arguments. Recently, there seem to be more of them.

[airman15 4,111]

Iraq: USA formally ends war in Iraq. Ceremony met with little fanfare

I really doubt this war was necessary.. But now that this war is over, lets pull the plug on the wars against Afghanistan, Drug smuggling and other money-draining programs so we can get back on our feet.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

The war in Afghanistan is needed and it would be over by now with much less bloodshed if we discreetly started war, peacekeeping, and infrastructure building in Afghanistan before 2001. Iraq was just a dictatorship that would not give us oil where there was a small terrorist present before the war where the terrorist moved in during the war. Al-Qaeda and the Taliban grew their operations in Iraq after the war started and one of them was not even in there before the war. Afghanistan was always the source of the al-Qaeda problems because of the weak and corrupt government.

[Easy Bakes 253]

trying to take over Afghanistan is a bad idea.

noone has ever done it before and have no idea why anyone would want to.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

trying to take over Afghanistan is a bad idea.

noone has ever done it before and have no idea why anyone would want to.

Well, notwithstanding the tragic casualty lists on both sides, the Iraq war was trumped up by the war-hawks who mushroom managed poor old Bushie. I can't believe anyone who achieved the office of President of the United States could be so gullible. Getting rid of Saddam was a benefit, but surely a full-scale old-fashioned invasion was not really required. There are lots of assassination squads around and a black op to get him would surely have been a lot cheaper.

As for Afghanistan, after cleaning out the nest of vipers called the Taliban, which is now nesting in Pakistan, we should have gently gotten out of there. The problem now is that we can't really go after these murderers and thieves inside Pakistan because we have blotted our copy book with them, thanks to the recent stupidity.

Pakistan is a nuclear state so we have to tread lightly. This 1947 mistake of a country is yet another product of the general exhaustion after WW II. It is the result of a sectarian conflict between the Hindus and the Muslims in India, and quite frankly I believe someone should have killed Jinnah before this tragic event occurred. After the war, so many mistakes were made that here we are now, two generations later, with all the fallout from these on our plate. Historically, the allies and friends had the bit in their teeth.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

It has been a busy weekend:

First, North Korea loses their Dear Leader. To be succeeded by No. 4 son, Kim Jong Un. Now that papa's gone to his reward we'll see if this not yet thirty year old will make a difference. Probably not.

Next, Syria seems to be unbending a little. We'll see if this dam has sprung a leak or if it is just more sauce for the proper gander.

And last, but certainly not least, the death of a great man. He was too young to go, and was only my senior by one year. Mr. Havel was responsible in a large part for the lifting of the Iron Curtain.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

1. I trust that reforms will begin slowly in North Korea soon enough.

2. I think that Afghanistan needs help with stabilization but the USA never tried to take over Afghanistan, they just wanted to get the Taliban out.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

1. I trust that reforms will begin slowly in North Korea soon enough.

2. I think that Afghanistan needs help with stabilization but the USA never tried to take over Afghanistan, they just wanted to get the Taliban out.

1. I suggest that you should refrain from enumerating your feathered progency before the completion of the incubation period.

2. Any intruder in Afghanistan is treated like a conqueror.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

When making posts with different short topics or points, I make enumerated lists but the Taliban intruded first and we certainly did not want them to conquer.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

When making posts with different short topics or points, I make enumerated lists but the Taliban intruded first and we certainly did not want them to conquer.

The Taliban were the elected government of Afghanistan. When they started being super-fundamentalist pseudo-Muslims and destroying centuries old Buddhist monuments, the world outcry resulted in NATO stepping in, I believe at the request of the UN. The United States is only there as part of the NATO commitment. The American presence is a matter of treaty obligation, so one could say that the war-hawks had nothing to do with this.

  Edited December 20, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[Odainsaker 2,134]

The Taliban were the elected government of Afghanistan. When they started being super-fundamentalist pseudo-Muslims and destroying centuries old Buddhist monuments, the world outcry resulted in NATO stepping in, I believe at the request of the UN. The United States is only there as part of the NATO commitment. The American presence is a matter of treaty obligation, so one could say that the war-hawks had nothing to do with this.

Not quite...the Taliban were not elected, but achieved power militarily by overrunning rival warlord militias around Kandahar and defeating the transitional government in Kabul during the post-Soviet invasion civil war. With Pakistani military support they ruled most of Afghanistan under strict views of Islamic law except in the north, which was still held by rival warlords and tribal factions collected into the "Northern Alliance." There was a shocking and ground-changing assassination of one these rival militia warlords, Ahmad Shah Massoud, just months after his dire warning that a spectacular terrorist attack on the U.S. was underway deep inside Taliban-controlled areas and his call for humanitarian intervention. Two days after his assassination by Al-Qaeda suicide bombers came 9/11.

The 9/11 attacks were found tied to Al-Qaeda operating from bases in Afghanistan under Taliban protection, and it was Mullah Omar's adamant refusal to heed the justifiably furious demands of the U.S. to hand over the Taliban's honored "guests" that directly brought about the U.S.-led and U.N.-sanctioned invasion. The primary U.S. goal has always been to wipe out Al-Qaeda, with which the Taliban had long ago opted to ally and with whom they have since been fighting alongside. Al-Qaeda would train the Taliban and help eliminate the Taliban's rivals in exchange for safe havens and indirect support from the Taliban's paymasters, Pakistan.

Rebuilding the Afghan nation and government had been a related, but secondary U.S. goal. Even the destruction of the World Heritage Buddhas and reports of apalling treatment of women did not move the international community or the Bush Administration to act, though it won the Taliban no friends and no more recognition of legitimacy. However, once the invasion was underway, the rival northern militas and the Afghan exile community joined in, and the hated Taliban fell swiftly and they along with their Al-Qaeda allies were pushed into the remote mountains. The many Afghan factions and tribes were called in a Loya Jirga, a traditional congress, to forge a new constitutional government and elect a new leadership. That 2002 assembly was poised to nominate the former and highly revered King Zahir Shah as national leader or perhaps even symbolic figurehead, but then the U.S. and U.N. stepped in to maneuver the U.S.-client candidate Hamid Karzai into the presidency. Karzai and his clique have now been in power for almost 11 years, more than enough time for growing disillusionment, claims of corruption, and power-hoarding to drive rivals and the still-impoverished and demoralized populace looking to a newly revitalized Taliban opposition. However, there is now no practical alternative to Karzai's continuing administration, as any overturning election would likely create a chaotic firestorm. The Taliban have in turn regained much territory, and are now again a real political and military force with which the current weak and retreating government now has to negotiate. The Bush Administration, meanwhile, turned its attention to the quagmire of Iraq and put Afghanistan and its reconstruction on the backburner, and now that we are looking back at Afghanistan, we see years of work and opportunity negligently squandered.

The U.S. and whatever NATO allies it has left are still looking for the remnants of Al-Qaeda, who have now clearly moved on to friendlier grounds in Pakistan. When the West finally completely pulls out, the Taliban militia and their friends will likely soon be at the gates of Kabul, and that frightening prospect will keep the U.S. there for some time to come. It remains unknown and increasingly doubtful whether or not Afghanistan can ever have a stable, unified, and representative government, let alone one that can survive turnover elections without soon falling into civil war.

  Edited December 20, 2011 by Odainsaker  

[Easy Bakes 253]

Another episode of political interference that back fired.

We just cant seem to trust them to use their own leaders.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Thanks for the history lesson. I must be slipping because I believed that this was a NATO mission from the get-go. Again, yet another unpopular foreign war fomented by the United States. This time with good reason but with the wrong ideas. We still have not put paid to the despicable Pakistanis, and maybe we should encourage India to do so.

When it comes to post WWII goofs, Israel, Pakistan, and Viet Nam all class as the west stupidly interfering in the east. Afghanistan was perhaps necessary, but it would have been better to have killed the snake at the financial end. Taking on a nuclear power would be tricky, but do the Pakis actually have the means to deliver any packages outside of the Hind? It would be rather nice to see Islamabad look a little more like Hiroshima in 1946.

I know this is a terrible proposal, but it is what ultra-secret agreements are for. Let the Russians do it, and every one else deplore this and wring hands, and keep fingers off big red buttons. It has to be done without warning, and a single clean strike. There are times when saber rattling is not enough, and I am sick of transatlantic body bags. An object lesson to a deserving bad boy would perhaps wake up some of the fools who are playing with fire over there.

  Edited December 21, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Duke of Edinburgh in hospital with heart problem.

Well, he's 90, so one can expect a few problems. Heck of a way to spend Christmas.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

A giggle for Sir Sandford Fleming.

Trade above all. This "line" has more squiggles in it than even Euclid would find amusing.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Know what, we should either switch to a decimal clock, ditch "leap seconds," or have the time zones world wide coincide with 24 longitudinal lines.

[Kirkland22 5]

A giggle for Sir Sandford Fleming.

Trade above all. This "line" has more squiggles in it than even Euclid would find amusing.

I imagine this situation might be a tad disappointing for Samoans whose birthdays are on the 30th of December.

[airman15 4,111]

I always found the dateline confusing. Since the dateline changed, does this also alter the time in the latitudes that intersect the affected regions?

[Shadow Assassin 336]

Seems like a natural second step for the Samoans, considering they switched to driving on the left two years ago. Samoa has become closer to both Australia and NZ considering that both countries now have quite significant Samoan populations now, so once again, it's a step closer to having the South Pacific work closer together economically and culturally.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I always found the dateline confusing. Since the dateline changed, does this also alter the time in the latitudes that intersect the affected regions?

It wasn't the dateline itself that changed, it was the interpretation of it. In theory the world turns two pi radians ever 24 hours, and that means 15 degrees an hour and this is the basis of the time zones which were invented by Sir Sandford Fleming to synchronize train schedules. Before that, time was kept by local mean noon. The Greenwich time zone lies 7 1/2 degrees both east and west of the meridian passing through the great observatory. Any school kid should know this.

[hym 358]

I always found the dateline confusing. Since the dateline changed, does this also alter the time in the latitudes that intersect the affected regions?

It wasn't the dateline itself that changed, it was the interpretation of it. In theory the world turns two pi radians ever 24 hours, and that means 15 degrees an hour and this is the basis of the time zones which were invented by Sir Sandford Fleming to synchronize train schedules. Before that, time was kept by local mean noon. The Greenwich time zone lies 7 1/2 degrees both east and west of the meridian passing through the great observatory. Any school kid should know this.

I remember being taught some of this. I also remember realizing that how the International Date Line was set up was of relatively little importance to what I intended to do with my life.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I always found the dateline confusing. Since the dateline changed, does this also alter the time in the latitudes that intersect the affected regions?

It wasn't the dateline itself that changed, it was the interpretation of it. In theory the world turns two pi radians ever 24 hours, and that means 15 degrees an hour and this is the basis of the time zones which were invented by Sir Sandford Fleming to synchronize train schedules. Before that, time was kept by local mean noon. The Greenwich time zone lies 7 1/2 degrees both east and west of the meridian passing through the great observatory. Any school kid should know this.

I remember being taught some of this. I also remember realizing that how the International Date Line was set up was of relatively little importance to what I intended to do with my life.

Yes, for most people it is just trivia. In the bad old days you might have had fun trying to figure out when the train was coming. The 180th meridian is insignificant unless you live along it.