UK Election 2010

[Boggy1 45]

A few hours ago, the Queen gave permission for the dissolution of the Cabinet and Government on the 12th of May, 2010. This means that in four weeks time, 30 days, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will get a new Government.

Immediately, the major party leaders - Gordon Brown (incumbent Labour Prime Minister), David Cameron (The Conservatives), and Nick Clegg (The Liberal Democrats), set out on their election campaign. Unlike the USA; our leaders can only properly campaign in the four weeks leading up to the election. Each leader was on the road within hours; all across the UK, trying to promote their party, and gain more support. 

Who are the main players in this election? 

The Labour Party
The current party in power in Westminister. The Prime Minister is Gordon Brown, who took over from Tony Blair in 2010. The centre-left party stands for democratic socialism, multiculturalism, and social equality. In recent years, the party has been hit hard by various scandals, with several Cabinet MPs resigning in protest, and has had some of the lowest opinion polls on record. Nevertheless, the party is still strong in urban areas, and has support from the middle classes. 

The Conservatives

The second largest party in power, headed by David Cameron. Many people predict Cameron to win the election; though their reputation of elitism still holds strong. The centre-right party stands for economic and social conservatism, with one of their main policies to slash spending to reduce

the public debt; similar to Margaret Thatcher's policies in the 1980's. The party has traditionally been strongest in the wealthy rural areas, but has made great inroads in recent months into the cities. 

The Liberal Democrats

The "third party", which hasn't been in power since the turn of the 20th century. Headed by Nick Clegg; this left party stands for progressive social and economic policies, environmentalism, and liberalism. A rash of different leaders led to instability in the 1990s and 2000s, with many people seeing the party has too weak to win in an election. Nevertheless, the rising positive polls has seen the Lib Dems becoming a possible major decider in the upcoming election. 

Now the fun starts. Over the next few weeks, aggressive campaigning from the party members, including live television debates between the leaders (a first for Britain). The parties will be fighting for 650 seats. However, a lack of confidence in the Parliament, and disillusion with the political system in general, has sparked fears that this election may cause a hung parliament. Rising power of far-right parties such as the British National Party, and the gaining power of nationalist parties Plaid Cymru in Wales and the Scottish National Party in Scotland means that this election will be the most varied and interesting in history. 

The stage is set. 

[saltandsauce 0]

Started on 1st May there is a current campaign by the media to undermine Gordon Brown and get David Cameron elected

there is a campaign for certain people to get investment and then watch as those investors watch their money just disappear.

what are your views Brits? (and everyone else who will post here anyway)

As part of the David Cameron election campaign there is a systematic process of rendering everyone else unelectable, Labour

is of course tired and has pissed off it's old supporters and fans of monetarism alike. the Liberal Democrats are as usual ignored

and generally portrayed as pushovers, the smaller parties are either being racist (BNP) or xenophobic (UKIP)

undermining BNP is too obvious to explain but undermining UKIP is by associating them with the BNP even thought hey just hate the political union of Europe (and they say some stuff that you nod your head to like not having accounts signed for 11 years successivley, why?)

more news as it develops

opposition never wins an election, ruling parties lose them

[DocRorlach 25]

While the above assesment is basically correct, it ignores the personality factor involved. The Tories (eqiv. Rebublicans) have lost or won all of their elections in the past twenty or so years because of their "leaders" and thus the possible Prime Minister, the current election once again features one that could - theoretically - win the election by a slight margin. Bi-partisan coalitions in governemtn are as impossible here as they are in the US. Moreover, I cannot recall a prime minister besides Churchill ever including members of the opposition party in the cabinet. Thus, the socalled "shadow cabinet of party & parliment members of the opposition party usually ends up on the ministerial seats. That only adds to the personality factor, since these are all public figures, each and everyone of them with rather a lot of foibles and follies.

While the same goes for the Labour (i.e. Democrats), their biggest liability is Gordon Brown. Depending on your personal perspective he really is the right man for the job after the Blair-loves-Bush fiasco of the previous elected administration. He can be faulted on very few issues, and as a former chancellor of the exchcequer (finance minister), he is the least of the evils for coming five years of upheaval (don't believe the papers: the recession has not even begun yet, but it will come). Trouble is, he has the charm and personality of a slap of concrete, and is about as mallable.

In my view that makes him the exception among the political reeds happy to bend with even the slightest wind from the corporate quarters that fund politics these days. But the media is gunning for him from nearly every quarter, and with the Murdoch ownership of most of the print media (including The Times), only the recent scandals (if these indeed last until the election), such as the tax status of the Tories biggest donor and Upper House (Senate) member Lord Ashcroft, can diminish the Tory's chances.

BNP & UKIP are dangerous in another sense: they will act as spoilers in this election, more so than ever before, especially in the bigger cities. As will the Scottish National Party up north. The net result could be a hung parliment with neither party garnering enough seats to form a government. In which case the Liberals (US: Independents) could actually play a role for the first time ever.

May we live in interesting times..

[saltandsauce 0]

why are UKIP in the same basket as the BNP? UKIP hates the EU (supra-national organisation) whereas the BNP hates foreigners in general

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Boggy1 45]

UKIP; The United Kingdom Independence Party. Basically, totally anti-the EU. Their main aim is to withdraw the UK from the EU body. They were very popular during the UK European Elections last year, coming in second place.

The main issue with Brown that people see was that he was Chancellor under Blair. He was in control of the economy; and helped propagate vast spending and loaning, and the idea that the "bust" was never going to come. Of course, it did. He is seen to have mishandled the economy ever since.

His entry to office was also totally unelected; as Blair stepped down, with Brown finishing the rest of his term. There were rumours that a Snap Election were to be called, but a plummet in Labour polls put this off.

There has also been a lot of strife within his current Cabinet. One of his top right hand men, Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs David Miliband has time and time again hesitated to support the Prime Minister during scandals (incidentally Miliband is seen as prime candidate for the next Leader; he shares much in common with Blair). Several times there has been sown the seeds for an internal leadership challenge. This apparent instability within the party has sapped the public confidence.

The Expenses Scandal absolutely shook the Governments power in the public eye. Six Cabinet members were forced to resign, and the Speaker of the House; one of the top positions in Westminster. Many saw Gordon Brown as helping cause the breakdown.

The Liberal Democrats have had a turbulent time in the past few decades. Their very formation came about due to a major split in the political map of the country, only 22 years ago. Since 2000, they have had four different Leaders, which again has propagated the idea they are an unstable and weak party. Their ideologies have always been rather "out there", which of course makes them extremely popular with students and young adults; but not so much with the older conservative generations.

[psander5 195]

I don't think UKIP are "in the same basket" because of their policies, more for their potential to disrupt the normal election we're used to by taking seats from the main parties. It's my own view though that UKIP are almost as much of an embarrassment to this country as the BNP.

I live in a fairly safe Labour seat, so my vote doesn't really count. Unfortunately that's true of most people in the country. It's unlikely that my safe seats like mine will swing to the nearest opposition, so I'm basically just an observer in this one as always! Of course, I'll be voting anyway... as all should be, but since I'd do anything to keep the Tories out I'll probably be voting for Labour anyway. Lib Dem and the Green's are just too far away in my area to make it worth my vote. I'm a natural Labour supporter anyway, but recent years have given me reasons to look elsewhere, just not to the dark side. There's something about Mr Cameron and his clan that seems entirely untrustworthy to me. Policies don't really matter any more either, since all parties in the centre are essentially the same. I still think Labour have the edge on policy for me though.

His entry to office was also totally unelected; as Blair stepped down, with Brown finishing the rest of his term.quote>

You forget that we don't vote for a President, even though we seem to be drifting towards it. In fact, everybody forgets that... and they always do! We vote for the party ant their policies, not the man or woman. The British PM doesn't have nearly as much executive power as the US president. There's no reason why a departing PM can't be replaced with an existing cabinet member. Gordon brown was elected in his constituency, which is all that is needed as far as I know... plus party confidence of course.

In some ways I just look forward to the election being over and done with. Even though it only started today, in truth it started months ago, and being a regular listener to 5Live on the BBC, I'm already fed up of all the bickering politicians and pig headed, opinionated members of the Great British public calling in with their various views... although I guess I might be one of those myself

[Boggy1 45]

Psander: I know that we don't vote for a person I was just telling what it seems like most of the public think. Personally I have no problem with him finishing the term unelected. His policies however...

[mightygoose 92]

I will vote BNP in direct protest to my disapproval of the overall centrelining of the major mparties.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

London Telegraph Article.

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The general article aside, I always felt echos of Oswald Mosley in the BNP.  After three generations, I hope people don't forget that guy.  He was a real shower.

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Of course, I am an outside observer, but I have never held much of a brief for the Labour Party.  Just a little too far left to suit me.  On the other hand, the Tories are just a little too far right.  So good luck.

I want to note for our American cousins how fast an election campaign goes in a parliamentary democracy.  No primaries, no run up, just make your case, you guys, and vote.

[thepokemaniac 18]

Hm, I don't normally keep up with British Politics, probably because I don't get many foreign TV channels, and American News barely mentions it! But this is interesting, I will be referring here to keep me updated with current news on this election.

Adam

[psander5 195]

Mightygoose: You're not serious are you? If you want to protest I hope you would consider voting for anyone else or spoil you're ballot. I do hope you don't believe in the BNP's policies. You do know that their main priority is to send non-white's "home" don't you?

Even a vote for UKIP would be better. They take a hard line on immigration and Europe, but at least they don't propose mass "repatriation" of people who have non-white heritage whose families came here generations ago.

The BNP are possibly Britain's greatest shame of this modern era, and any credibility they gain from "protest votes" is a great tragedy for this country.

Adam: One thing I can guarantee you... it will not be anywhere near as interesting as the US elections!

[mightygoose 92]

i am deadly serious, i merely feel they have the conviction to stand for policies that won't necessarily appeal to everyone, and that they are the only party that promise to stem future immigration, that is a serious problem in the UK. I feel that by continuing to stand for their position no matter how despised they have far more credibility than anyone currently in westminster.

[psander5 195]

How about all the MP's currently in Westminster who voted to go to war in Iraq, led by Tony Blair... even though millions protested against it and despised them for it? By your logic they have the credibility you seek, only applied to a different policy. If bullheaded ignorance and stubbornness is what you look for in your politicians then surely you don't have to look much further than Gordon Brown! He has all the qualities of the BNP (as you describe them), only he's not a fascist.

I agree that immigration is a concern to many, but to accept some of the more extreme consequences of the BNP's approach to the issue (not to mention their other firmly held conviction) is... just a little bit daft in my view.

[mightygoose 92]

while daft and reckless yes, what better to trigger a refurbishment than a bull in a china shop....

[Duke of York 23]

Well ...Its not easy to stand outside of someones Country and tell them whats good for them and there Country, but I will state a short Opinion. From what I have read briefly I'm not sure who I would vote for. I mean I lean Socialist alot so I would say vote for the Labor Party. However I'm not a fan of Gordon Brown and at the same time I'm not going to vote for the Conservatives and if I voted for the Liberal Democratic Party I would feel as if my vote isn't enough to make a substantial role in rebuilding there come back efforts (At least in this election) ...From What I've read on wikipedia BNP is a extreme Conservative right wing party.So I'm not sure about that. Theres the issue...Gordon Brown is a no no but I doubt the conservatives or BNP. So all I can say is good luck and best wishes to the People of the United Kingdom.

-Duke of York-

[Viles 0]

Bit of an annoying date as I go away that week.

If I get to vote it would probably be for Labour just to keep the Conservatives out. Unfortunately I think the Conservatives will win, as the public have jumped on the media bandwagon against Brown.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Originally posted by: mightygoose

i am deadly serious, i merely feel they have the conviction to stand for policies that won't necessarily appeal to everyone, and that they are the only party that promise to stem future immigration, that is a serious problem in the UK. I feel that by continuing to stand for their position no matter how despised they have far more credibility than anyone currently in westminster.quote>

I see that my previous pointed comment fell on deaf ears.  Look!  the BNP is a fascist party.  You need a history lesson, starting with the ascent of Musselini and his boys.  If you want that kind of government, I hope you are prepared for concentration camps and the whole mess again.  Why not vote for the Scottish Nationalist Party or some other splinter group?  Anything would be better than the BNP.

We tried a protest vote in Ontario a few years back and got the Ontario NDP (Socialists), who were very surprised to be asked to form a government, and were really not prepared to do so.  In one term, they ran us into a deficit that we are still climing out of decades later.

The last thing we need is another major country ruled by a bunch of gangsters.

[Boggy1 45]

The point is; if you want to vote to teach the current parties a lesson, then you need to spoil your ballot. At the end of each vote count, the polling station will release the amount of spoiled ballot papers. That will send a message. Trying to sabotage the political democratic system in this country wont.

[saltandsauce 0]

here is why people are so worried about the BNP, no pressure group exists without reason in the sense that there is a genuine concern about immigration etc. and the only way to get rid of them is to basically enforce it before they get in. nobody votes for the BNP for their views on comprehensive education, the NHS, council housing or employment. they have one policy which is "get rid of those ruddy foreigners" and that is gaining them support ON ONE POLICY.

the BNP are no longer a couple of nutters, they are a fully fledged minority party with people who have been elected. disillusioned people vote for plain speakers and BNP are as plain as you can get. so if you want rid of the BNP then you'd have to get rid of their flare which is - immigrants.

if i was old enough to vote (i'm too young by a matter of months) i'd vote UKIP for the same reason (not immigration), they have one active policy that i agree with where Labour, the Lib Dems, and the Tories have 0 active policies (all of it twiddling and nothing remotley radical and in most cases very similar) and the policy which i happen to agree with is withdrawl from the European Union - this doesn't mean i hate France, Germany,Spain etc. just the EU.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[ThomasSimpson 466]

No, it's not mandatory. You register to vote.

I'd like to see a Tory/Lib Dem coalition, with Vince Cable as Chancellor. Both the main parties have pretty obvious weaknesses, and they need the Lib Dems.

[SC4BOY 20]

Realistically in order to swing a pendulum you MUST vote (and sometimes even act) radically... otherwise the majority simple waffles helplessly in the center of mediocrity.

[sneakeypete 16]

I'm not sure i'd vote for the UKIP either:

[psander5 195]

I just watched that video, though I've seen the footage before. I was surprised to see it's being used as UKIP advertising! That's one of the reasons I said they were an embarrassment to Britain.

If I were Van Rumpoy, or any Belgian for that matter, I think I would have found it difficult not to get up and punch Farrage in his smug face.

He certainly doesn't speak for this member of the British public... but then, I'm actually a fan of our membership of the EU.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

You have a better chance of getting your vote listened to by voting for the Liberals.  Voting for splinter parties simply dilutes the vote and sometimes causes general chaos.  If you can imagine a UKIP or BNP government, go look at the German election of 1933 and imagine Hitler as PM.

[mightygoose 92]

now i'm pretty sure that the BNP foreign policy doesn't extend to genocide. lets not go too far in that comparison.

[andhow 0]

As an Englishman now living in Australia it's an interesting thread. I saw a clip of Gordon Brown saying words to the effect of " the future is in our hands now let's go and get it" outside No.10. I agree, DocRorlach (what's a "tribble"?)

he was unconvincing and had the charisma of a brick. That shouldn't matter if we're voting for a leader with qualities to manage an economy and social structure but alas it does.

psander5, while in theory the system doesn't mean voting for a person, rather a party, I believe that in reality it is people's perceptions of the individual leader as much as the performance and policies of the party that decide votes, much like buying anything is down to the salesperson you deal with as much as the company. Unfortunately the predominently right wing media (Murdoch owned in particular) have a lot of effect on that perception.

Media have always targeted parties in support or disfavour. Traditonally, the Guardian and Independent are left wing for example, while the Times and the Sun are right wing. I think with the latter two papers they've got the market covered!

My only hope (I may not live there but I still care) is that BNP are anihilated. A truly facist party blaming the woes of the country on non-whites. Not immigration, but non-whites. Do they complain about German, Canadian, Irish, US immigrants? Nope. It's the most blatent form of racism and needs everyone to stand against it. If population is growing too fast by all means stem immigration but not only against blacks, Asians etc. Ensure only educated people with the skills the country needs enter, regardless of race. We had a similar issue here with Pauline Hanson. She's now defected to the BNP in UK as she failed here. Be warned, UK citizens!

And if the argument is that immigrants are taking all the jobs (they're not , most are just hard working, willing and paying taxes, and there's good and bad in all races), then maybe there just aren't enough jobs.

Asylum seekers are a different issue and a tough one. All good people have a moral responsibility to help their fellow man seeking refuge (especially those who claim to be Christians - odd how they many don't apply Christian values in this regard) and I truly believe the cost of maintaining border security and asylum seeker processing centres is just a cost the world now has to live with, just like it lives with the billions spent on weapons stockpiles and defence policy, but I bet there aren't many conversations down the pub or in the papers that focus on that cost as an election issue. The cost of one stealth bomber could fund malaria research for years, potentially saving millions of lives. Haven't seen that headline in the Daily Mail.

In the end I just hope people vote for the greater good not just their personal benefit, but then i dream of world peace and free love too.

One interest I have in this election is what part the internet or non-traditional media will play, particularly in attrracting the young vote.

...and I shall now put away my soapbox, well after declaring that compulsory voting is the best idea of all. Only 30% of Brits vote on average and these tend to be have a greater proportion in the upper socio ecomonic groups i.e. poor people don't vote. People died to give us all the vote...use it wisely my friends!

[sneakeypete 16]

Originally posted by: mightygoose

now i'm pretty sure that the BNP foreign policy doesn't extend to genocide. lets not go too far in that comparison.quote>

And Hitler outlined his plans back in the 30's?

Don't get me wrong, i think it's a bit of a streach to say that the BNP are going to be anything like the Nazi party, however, they're not the kind of party i'd like in my country. (we had something similar in the 90's, but it died thankfully)

[psander5 195]

I'm sure Hitler didn't say in his election manifestos that he planned to wipe out the Jews of Europe... Don't worry though. Griffin and his Goons are nowhere near as competent as the Nazi's were. They'll never be able to form a government. The big worry though is they'll get someone elected as a Member of Parliament, and as there's a chance of a hung Parliament this time, they could end up as a small part of a coalition.

The BNP have cleaned up their policies in recent years. If you look at their website today (I do it often so I can tell the ignorant what they're getting into bed with), you can see they've taken away a lot of the extreme stuff they used to have. It's still there though. It's just been re-written into a more legally acceptable way. It's just like reading the Daily Mail now. Their primary immigration policy is to immediately close the borders to all. They would immediately deport all illegal immigrants. They would begin a programme of "voluntary repatriation" of non-whites, where they kindly offer financial incentives to the people and the governments of their ancestral homelands to 'return'. This includes people who have been here for generations and who know no other homeland than Britain - although these days they say they'd let those cases stay... begrudgingly I'd guess.

In order to do all that they promise to pull out of the EU and NATO and to repeal the Human Rights Act (1998)

On the Human Rights Act, this is a quote directly from their policies section on "Democracy":

- Abolish the "Human Rights Act" which has been imposed on this country through the European Union, and which is nothing but an excuse to prevent British laws stopping the scroungers of the world parasiting off this nation;quote>

On crime, they want to bring back capital punishment. Not only that, but they want to bring back corporal punishment in schools and in justice (for "petty criminals and vandals"), turning Britain into the only developed and secular state in the world to practice such archaic "justice".

Then there's their interesting proposals for "defence", in which they seem to want to vastly increase Britain's domestically based military for some reason (by re-introducing compulsory service, Increasing budgets, domestic weapons production and re-calling all forces abroad and closing all foreign bases on British soil). I wonder what that reason might be.

I could go on listing their election promises, but it's unfair to give so much attention to such a small element of this election. The "rise of the BNP" is something that truly worries and embarrasses me. Aside from their obvious racism, their other policies seem to suggest they want to put a giant cloche over these islands and seal it off from the world for good and take us back to the dark ages. Incidentally, they also promise to include the Republic of Ireland in their plans. They want to kindly invite Eire to join a new federation of the nations of the British Isles (their description). It would be interesting to see what our Irish friends think of that proposal...

___

Anyway, back to more moderate issues, the issue of voting and parliamentary reform is something I'll be looking at. All three parties recognise the desire for it. Britain is the home of modern parliamentary systems... and it shows. I would like to see changes to modernise Parliament, everything from the shape and layout of the debating chamber to voting reforms. I'm not sure exactly what I want to see yet, I haven't done the research on things like proportional representation, but it's clear that the current methods of government don't fit in with the modern electorate's wishes.

andhow: Australia is an inspiration it seems. I know that Labour want to copy the Australian points system for immigration, and I support that. It wouldn't apply to EU citizens as far as I know, but I don't mind that. I like the idea that if I wanted to I could move freely to an EU country and get any unskilled work I was competent for. I'm a big fan of freedom of movement in an ideal world. I'd love to see a world without borders one day! I think I'll have to leave that to fiction though. There are also whisperings of compulsory voting (I believe you have that in Australia), which is better in my view than the current method. Right now we have to go out and register to vote. Most people are too lazy to 'opt in' in such a way. There are also plans to reduce the voting age to sixteen (I know Labour have proposed it... not sure about the others) which should increase the number of voices.

Being a bit of a leftie, I welcome the advent of new media. I'd love to see the decline of Murdoch's empire and his influence. At the moment it's still there, but with readership declining and his hatred of the internet, there are places to get less biased views (and of course, more biased views, but they are easier to spot). There's always the good old BBC with it's strict policy on absolute impartiality, which ironically appeals to the sentiments of the left since fairness and equality is a key principal of those who are more liberally minded.

Gah! I should stop writing.