High Speed Rail vs. Bullet Train

[Retep Molinari 68]

I'm having some problems with bugs and crashing with the high speed rail, so I thought we could discuss the pros and cons of the two systems. Here are at least some of what we should consiter:

- Crashing

- Station avaliblity

- Pure asthetics

- Functionality

- Speed

So, let me know what you all think!

[Haljackey 17,268]

Well remember you can use both mods at the same time if you want to. You just need the BTM HSR patch.

- Crashing: BTM is much more stable than HSR. Its a complete network replacement, unlike the puzzle piece drag method. We all know what happens when we hover a puzzle piece over a TE lot.

- Station availability: HSR has a lot more stations at the moment. But since BTM is now on the STEX you should see more BTM stations later on. Remember monorail and HSR stations can be used for the BTM, and some actually look good.

- Pure asthetics: Tie. HSR has smoother curves, a ground/elevated transition and does not sacrifice the monorail network. BTM has the cool supports and gantries, and the track resembles many real life bullet train lines, but sacrifices the monorail network.

- Functionality: HSR is a NAM component (like RHW, SAM, etc) and BTM is not (yet). More patches and updates have been made for the HSR mod to date, but BTM is catching up.

- Speed: Tie. They both have the same speed (NAM Simulator Z recommended for use with both). BTM used to have its own traffic simulator which increased the speed of the network, but it is outdated with the NAM and was not included in the STEX BTM release. The NAM team is currently studying the BTM simulator and you may see an adjustment for it in the coming new NAM releases.

Anyways, that's what I have to say about the comparison. There is no real "Vs." thing here, its just choosing which you prefer to do what you want in your game.

[warrior 169]

Also I'll add that the HSR will be less stable because its an override network, I'm redoing the RULs at the moment though to try and make it so there are no reversions at all.

And as Haljackey says you can use both at the same time(which I'd actually recommend, because it means you don't have an overly fast monorail or a underly slow HSRP) and it's what I use.

Jonathan

[josue 0]

I prefer BTM, it looks much more realistic, it's easy to use... even sims also prefer it to use : )))))

May be it fits in sim mars or in any futuristic city, but for me HSR looks awful.

[warrior 169]

May be it fits in sim mars or in any futuristic city, but for me HSR looks awful.quote>

So how could it be improved? (I'm not being rude, just simply finding out how I can improve the mod)

Any ideas and I'd be very grateful : )

Is it the blue side barriers? I think they don't look that great

Jonathan

[Retep Molinari 68]

This is all so helpful! Does the BTM go between cities well like HSR is designed to? What's the bets spacing for BTM?

[Synthesis 0]

I don't think this was mentioned, but BTM version 2 lacks street crossings, it just reverts back to monorail.

They're both equally hard to get people to actually use in game, unfortunately.

[z1 566]

Originally posted by: haljackey

- Speed: Tie. They both have the same speed (NAM Simulator Z recommended for use with both). BTM used to have its own traffic simulator which increased the speed of the network, but it is outdated with the NAM and was not included in the STEX BTM release. The NAM team is currently studying the BTM simulator and you may see an adjustment for it in the coming new NAM releases.

quote>

I have enclosed a zip file containing all the versions of Simulator Z, modified for the BTM so that the network speed for the BTM is 400 kph, instead of the monorail speed of 250 kph.  I would strongly recommend the use of this simulator, as opposed to an updated version of the old BTM simulator.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, Simulator Z has specific enhancements for the monorail/BTM network that are not present in any other simulator.  As these are complex and I have not communicated their implementation to the NAM team, it is unlikely in the extreme that any modified BTM simulator would have these enhancements.  Therefore, it is rather clear that a modified BTM simulator would not perform as well as the attached modified Simulator Z.

If you wish to use this traffic simulator, simply download the zip file and replace your current traffic simulator with the BTM version.  If you are already using Simulator Z, the names will be identical except for the extra "BTM_" in the modified simulator.  The main effects of this modified simulator are that you will get increased use of the bullet train.  I would be interested in hearing additional details from those people who use this modified simulator, which can be found here.

[Retep Molinari 68]

So let me clarify (and please correct me when needed)

a) The Simulator Z improves the speed of BTM

b) This is the same Simulator Z that I would have gotten with the newest NAM

c) The crossing issue (where the BTM turns back into monorail over a street) is NOT fixed by any mod.

Yes?

[z1 566]

Only the version of Simulator Z posted above improves the speed of the BTM.  This is NOT the same Simulator Z included in the NAM, although it is identical aside from the network speed of the BTM.  And the crossing issue is not, and cannot be addressed in the traffic simulator.

Originally posted by: Synthesis

They're both equally hard to get people to actually use in game, unfortunately.

quote>

Sample tests with the modified Simulator Z show a 20-fold increase in usage of the BTM over the unmodified Simulator Z.  YMMV.

[Retep Molinari 68]

And the mod posted above... do I just download it without removing the existing NAM and Simulator Z?

[z1 566]

The complete installation instructions were spelled out in the post containing the mod.     To repeat the essentials, you don't do anything to the NAM except replace your version of Simulator Z with the similarly-named one from the mod.

[CaptCity 4,695]

Originally posted by: Synthesis

I don't think this was mentioned, but BTM version 2 lacks street crossings, it just reverts back to monorail.quote>

and...

Originally posted by: Retep Molinari The crossing issue (where the BTM turns back into monorail over a street) is NOT fixed by any mod.quote>

Actually, this crossing is working fine for me. It may be due to the file name mix up that is currently being taken care of. What I've found that worked for me (if you're interested in doing it): Download both BTM 1 and BTM 2. Exchange all the files from one to the other except the ones named 'Bullet Train Mod V1 or 2'. Leave those in the original folder. After that, I had to rename the folder with a couple Z's in front so it would load last (or after NAM). Upon completing all that, I am getting every texture except BTM X BTM in version 2 and BTM X GLR in version 1. Just a thought...

[awake_78 0]

Originally posted by: warrior

May be it fits in sim mars or in any futuristic city, but for me HSR looks awful.quote>

So how could it be improved? (I'm not being rude, just simply finding out how I can improve the mod)

Any ideas and I'd be very grateful : )

Is it the blue side barriers? I think they don't look that great

Jonathanquote>

I'm very grateful for HSR. But I would like to point  a small thing.

I think the most real HSR trucks looks like more than normally track (maybe a little more gray). In the game the tracks are totally diferrent.

[Synthesis 0]

Originally posted by: z1

Only the version of Simulator Z posted above improves the speed of the BTM.  This is NOT the same Simulator Z included in the NAM, although it is identical aside from the network speed of the BTM.  And the crossing issue is not, and cannot be addressed in the traffic simulator.

Originally posted by: Synthesis

They're both equally hard to get people to actually use in game, unfortunately.

quote>

Sample tests with the modified Simulator Z show a 20-fold increase in usage of the BTM over the unmodified Simulator Z.  YMMV.

quote>

Unfortunately, 20-times zero is still...zero.

Which is weird, since the neighboring city that uses HSR still gets 20% usage (and 50% if I destroy the highway connetions). They're both connected, they both are dragged across HSR stations.....it's just a bug, though nothing's perfect of course.

I'll have to give it a try. Maybe my cities just have a natural repulsion towards HSR...

EDIT: Holy crap, it worked! Apparently, it was a combination of having too many city-to-city connections (namely, roads), and the modification. Cutt off a few roads between cities, put a toll-booth here and there, install the mod....use hovers around 50% (and if I cut the highway alltogether, it skyrockets to around 200 percent...)

Many thanks!

[earwax_man 18]

Why is it that my HSR is never used? I only use it to connect large cities (NEVER as a local network) and yet usage is zilch

[josue 0]

Originally posted by: warrior

May be it fits in sim mars or in any futuristic city, but for me HSR looks awful.quote>

So how could it be improved? (I'm not being rude, just simply finding out how I can improve the mod)

Any ideas and I'd be very grateful : )

Is it the blue side barriers? I think they don't look that great

Jonathanquote>

YES!!! definitively I think it is the blue side barriers, railroads usually doesn't got such colour barriers...

[kingdiz_55 12]

I would prefer the BTM myself. The only problem I see with the BTM is the fact that it can't seem to cross roads and avenues without turning back to a monorail as Retep Molinari had originally posted. However, Haljackey is already working on BTM 3 with better support. Hopefully , it also supports the euro textures mod. I will mail Haljackey about this to be sure.

[z1 566]

Originally posted by: earwax_man

Why is it that my HSR is never used? I only use it to connect large cities (NEVER as a local network) and yet usage is zilch quote>

Sims are basically lazy.  If they can find a job in the current city, why get on the HSR to travel all the way to another city to find work?

Putting a train stop near the border should help.  You'll get local traffic this way, but Sims living near the border will find it easier to cross over into the next city than to look for work in their own.

[CaptCity 4,695]

Originally posted by: kingdiz_55

I would prefer the BTM myself. The only problem I see with the BTM is the fact that it can't seem to cross roads and avenues without turning back to a monorail...quote>

If you're not using the euro-textures, you might try this. I had the same problem, but putting a couple 'ZZ's in front of the BTM folder name (so it would load after NAM) seemed to fix the issue of the reappearing monorail tracks over crossings. Hope this will help...

[earwax_man 18]

Originally posted by: z1

Originally posted by: earwax_man

Why is it that my HSR is never used? I only use it to connect large cities (NEVER as a local network) and yet usage is zilch quote>

Sims are basically lazy.  If they can find a job in the current city, why get on the HSR to travel all the way to another city to find work?

Putting a train stop near the border should help.  You'll get local traffic this way, but Sims living near the border will find it easier to cross over into the next city than to look for work in their own.

quote>

True... But maybe |I should just make a huge city of only commercial, and one of only residential then connect them up with HSR?

[z1 566]

Yes, that should do it as well. But you have to make sure that your regional demand for commercial is positive also; you have to be especially careful of this in CAM regions. If you run into problems, a little bit of commercial zoning at the far end of your residential region should help out.

[earwax_man 18]

Originally posted by: z1

Yes, that should do it as well. But you have to make sure that your regional demand for commercial is positive also; you have to be especially careful of this in CAM regions. If you run into problems, a little bit of commercial zoning at the far end of your residential region should help out.quote>

I use super demand

[TmiguelT 10]

we are talking here about the NAM Z simulator as well. i have the HSR and BTM but i can't get people to ride both. How can i activate the Z simulator?

[z1 566]

Simply rerun the NAM installation and pick the version of Simulator Z that you want on the page following the license agreement.  You may want to read the first post in the NAM Traffic Simulator Z Support Thread  first, so that you understand what the different versions are.  Then download this file, which contains the BTM versions of Simulator Z, and replace the version of Simulator Z in your Network Addon Mod folder with the similarly-named version from the file.

[cirvianum 0]

I think it would be good thing to make the HSR tracks look like an ordinary rail track, cuz real-life High speed trains use similar networks to the common trains... BTW those messages use HTML so I can HTML a pic here?

[vershner 11]

Originally posted by: cirvianum

I think it would be good thing to make the HSR tracks look like an ordinary rail track, cuz real-life High speed trains use similar networks to the common trains... BTW those messages use HTML so I can HTML a pic here? quote>

We're currently working on that...

[josue 0]

I'm agree with cirvianum and this is the reason I prefer BTM, because it looks more like any other rail network...

[aaaling 83]

Originally posted by: josue

I prefer BTM, it looks much more realistic, it's easy to use... even sims also prefer it to use : )))))

May be it fits in sim mars or in any futuristic city, but for me HSR looks awful.quote>

What do you mean? HSR is better than BTM a lot! However it's advised to download BTM texture 500in here: www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm

You should also use sim. Z Ultra.

[earwax_man 18]

Originally posted by: aaaling

Originally posted by: josue

I prefer BTM, it looks much more realistic, it's easy to use... even sims also prefer it to use : )))))

May be it fits in sim mars or in any futuristic city, but for me HSR looks awful.quote>

What do you mean? HSR is better than BTM a lot! However it's advised to download BTM texture 500in here: www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm

You should also use sim. Z Ultra.

quote>

HSR is too chunky for most people, and the blue texture doesn't exactly help it. But it's good for inter city connections I guess.