Japan Prepares to Destroy North Korean Launch

[Facco 0]

Originally posted by: Yoman3

The South Korean Military alone could knock North Korea's around like a professional boxer versus a toddler, Japan, US, & South Korea ain't much of a chance

No one wants war though, especially South Korea, because not only would the war hamstring the economy, but the reunification would strain it beyond belief. Was an article about it a few months ago in the Economist.quote>

technically, North and south korea are still at war

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

This just in... the missile failed. It didn't get into space, and fell into the ocean.

[Haljackey 17,398]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

This just in... the missile failed. It didn't get into space, and fell into the ocean.

quote>

lol, epic fail.

Unless it was actually a missle test and North Korea intended it to land in the ocean. Then I guess its sort of a win for them.

[hym 358]

Even if they were telling the truth that they were hoping to put a satellite in orbit, it still constituted a missile test because they would glean information directly applicable to any missile program. No matter the outcome of the launch, they were going to win in that regard.

[lgbrave4life 1]

Originally posted by: Jezus53

Originally posted by: confused04

I predict....

Nothing... status quo unchanged.quote>

Agreed. If we knock that thing out the sky NK won't do anything unless Russia comes out of no where and goes, "Yeah, you know those nukes we "got rid of?" jk, we're launching them all." Only scenario I can think. All joking aside, why can't they just have Japan or US or another nation with a space program do it? If it's such a harmless satellite, then let us do it for you. Why would you want to defy a treaty and possibly start a war over a meaningless some science satellite? Something isn't right about this.

quote>

We can't just do it for them. Ever wonder why we never went back to the moon? Anything to do with space is extremely expensive. I'm not sure exactly how much but to launch a simple shuttle like NASA does every now and then is hundreds of millions of dollars. Maybe even billions i'm not sure but bottum line is that it's expensive. Unless that country gave us the money to do that, it would never happen. Plus they also don't want us to know what they know or don't know technology wise. But we will always have Japan and SK's back.

I would also like to point out, one thing that we have and they don't is a strong AMD program. For example the "star wars" program in space. It is still very much active from the cold way days. So they can launch as many missles they want at us, we'll just shoot them down. As for Japan or SK, they will have to act VERY qickly to shoot NK's missles down. But the US will always have Japan's and SK's back.

War exites me too but like Barbarossa said, probably nothin will happen.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: lgbrave4life

Anything to do with space is extremely expensive. I'm not sure exactly how much but to launch a simple shuttle like NASA does every now and then is hundreds of millions of dollars. Maybe even billions i'm not sure but bottum line is that it's expensive. quote>

Excluding things like inflation, a shuttle launch and recovery costs approximately $500 million.  If weather or some other factor forces them to land the shuttle in California instead of Florida, then it is several million more because they have to use special aircraft to fly the shuttle back to Florida.

[sneakeypete 16]

What exactly gives everyone here the right to have their own space program, but not NK?

I mean, morally its wrong in that they should try feeding their people better... but that still doesn't mean that they don't have the right to build a rocket, nor does it mean that you should invade them to try and stop it or something stupid like that.

As for expense... Well, launching a more conventionall rocket is nowhere near the half billion cost of the space shuttle. But then again, even NASA admits that the shuttle was a mistake (its so cheap to build a new rocket that reusing it really isn't worth the extra expense). Want proof ? A private company launched their own rocket in september of last year.

Oh no, guess we should raid their company, they must be upto something sinister! according to hym, the info they got from that launch could help them with a missile program!

[mightygoose 92]

Originally posted by: sneakeypete

What exactly gives everyone here the right to have their own space program, but not NK?

I mean, morally its wrong in that they should try feeding their people better... but that still doesn't mean that they don't have the right to build a rocket, nor does it mean that you should invade them to try and stop it or something stupid like that.

As for expense... Well, launching a more conventionall rocket is nowhere near the half billion cost of the space shuttle. But then again, even NASA admits that the shuttle was a mistake (its so cheap to build a new rocket that reusing it really isn't worth the extra expense). Want proof ? A private company launched their own rocket in september of last year.

Oh no, guess we should raid their company, they must be upto something sinister! according to hym, the info they got from that launch could help them with a missile program!

quote>

by your logic we would have delivered WMD's to saddam for his own personal use, and given hitler the mahattan project in the interest of fair play....

[sneakeypete 16]

No, your twisting my words. I'm not saying that anyone should share technology, but I'm saying that countries that already have it should get off their effing high horse and stop policing the world and telling people what they can and cant research. Besides, i never mentioned nukes in the first place, i merely mentioned space programs. Which, by the way, a large amount of nations, and private entaprises, are currently developing.

I mean, seriously, if building a rocket that can get a payload into low earth orbit provides oh so much information that could be used to create an ICBM, why didn't the US get up in arms about the recent private launch? surely this information in the hands of a corporation is much more dangerous than it being in the hands of a Dictator of a poor third world country with some of the largest armies on the planet surrounding it on both sides.

[JanYpe 17]

I don

[mightygoose 92]

The UN security council deems some nations too dangerous to posess certain types of weapons... they then enforce resolutary restrictions on those weapons and any technological developement directly pertaining to  said weapons developement.  There are sanctions against NK, and they are prohibited from developing ICBM's. They broke those sanctions. Thus the internation community became ready to enforce those sanctions.

As to high horses. Japan did not deploy its missile defences because of the sanctions. It depoloyed them because they fear that NK might actually launch an Missile attack on them. It is believed that NK may be trying to develope or may in fact already have Nuclear warheads, and the UN is desperate to prevent South East asian nuclear proliferation... not for geographical reasons, its just deemedthat nuclear proliferation is generally a bad thing.

There are now only nine countries in the world with WMD's, North Korea are known to possess large quantities of chemical and biological weapons. They claim to have also conducted nuclear tests in october 2006, this has since been partially corroborated with siesmic data. North Korea also withdrew from the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty in 2003. Only five nations in the world are ratified to use nuclear arms under the first pillar of the Nuclear non proliferation treaty. The NWS (nuclear weapon states) are United Kingdom, United States, Russia (assumed the rights of the USSR), China and France.

 India & Pakistan both have limited nuclear capabilities that have been treatised on other occassions during talks with NWS's. There was a fear that the two nations would end in a limited exchange. International intervention was necessary to prevent local destabilisation. Israel, the only nation on the Planet to have untreatised and officially undeclared nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs, is largely ignored by the UN. It's long term allegiance to the US may have bought it leaniency up until now but if NK degenerates into violent conflict with the threat of Medium to intercontinental range missile attack then israel would surely be dragged to the chopping block.

North Korea are dangerous, They should be denied extensive long range first strike weapons for the exact same reason you dont let toddlers play with matches. You don't want your house burnt down....

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: sneakeypete

What exactly gives everyone here the right to have their own space program, but not NK?

I mean, morally its wrong in that they should try feeding their people better... but that still doesn't mean that they don't have the right to build a rocket, nor does it mean that you should invade them to try and stop it or something stupid like that.quote>

Several years ago, they signed away their right to build rockets or anything directly applicable to a ballistics program.  So, no, they don't have the right to build a rocket, and if they do so, it does give other countries the legal right to impose sanctions.

As for expense... Well, launching a more conventionall rocket is nowhere near the half billion cost of the space shuttle. But then again, even NASA admits that the shuttle was a mistake (its so cheap to build a new rocket that reusing it really isn't worth the extra expense). Want proof ? A private company launched their own rocket in september of last year.quote>

Rocket technology has improved significantly in the 40 years that have transpired between now and when the Space Shuttle was in intial design.  Stuff that is feasible now wasn't even remotely possible then.  Stuff like private companies being able to afford to launch stuff into orbit.  When the Shuttle was created, it was an innovative solution to the problem of space flight.  The extent to which the Shuttle is considered obsolete is testament to the forward march of technology, not to any inherent deficiencies of the Shuttle concept.

Oh no, guess we should raid their company, they must be upto something sinister! according to hym, the info they got from that launch could help them with a missile program!quote>

Yes, it could if they were so inclined, but the idea of a private company looking to build a private missile arsenal is ludicrous.  However, the idea of a country looking to build a viable missile arsenal is not, especially a country such as North Korea.

I mean, seriously, if building a rocket that can get a payload into low earth orbit provides oh so much information that could be used to create an ICBM, why didn't the US get up in arms about the recent private launch? surely this information in the hands of a corporation is much more dangerous than it being in the hands of a Dictator of a poor third world country with some of the largest armies on the planet surrounding it on both sides.quote>

Multiple reasons.  First, there is the "Yay for us!  We can do all this cool stuff now!" issue.  Second, it is assumed that the allegiance of a US company is to the US, so no one is going to fuss about how this is a threat to national security or anything.  Third, it is a private firm, and weaponized ballistics programs are the domain of the government and its contractors.  Only way they're getting the information to become a real threat is to learn it themselves, or somehow procure it through some shady dealing.

And I won't speak for you, but if I had the choice of ballistics knowledge going to a private firm located in my own country, or that information in the hands of a heartless dictator who has been confirmed to be clinically insane and is pursuing nuclear weapons, I'll want it in the hands of the corporation.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[830point35 8]

How much of a failure was that launch? Maybe their real intent was to land a payload on a specific part of the earth. If they said it was a satellite, then you all think it's a failure. Maybe I'm just suspicious of the little runt that runs that country, but I think this "failure" was actually a whole lot more to worry about.

[Jezus53 18]

Originally posted by: lgbrave4life

Originally posted by: Jezus53

Originally posted by: confused04

I predict....

Nothing... status quo unchanged.quote>

Agreed. If we knock that thing out the sky NK won't do anything unless Russia comes out of no where and goes, "Yeah, you know those nukes we "got rid of?" jk, we're launching them all." Only scenario I can think. All joking aside, why can't they just have Japan or US or another nation with a space program do it? If it's such a harmless satellite, then let us do it for you. Why would you want to defy a treaty and possibly start a war over a meaningless some science satellite? Something isn't right about this.

quote>

We can't just do it for them. Ever wonder why we never went back to the moon? Anything to do with space is extremely expensive. I'm not sure exactly how much but to launch a simple shuttle like NASA does every now and then is hundreds of millions of dollars. Maybe even billions i'm not sure but bottum line is that it's expensive. Unless that country gave us the money to do that, it would never happen. quote>

Of course it would be at NK's expense. I wouldn't want to pay for it.

Plus they also don't want us to know what they know or don't know technology wise.quote>

Exactly my point. It isn't just a satellite. Something else was going on. There is no way anyone would bring the threat of the US, Japan, and SK on them if there was a way around. But seeing as how we blow smoke and never act, Any other nation would have done it as well. Plus, who cares if we know what their communications satellite is packing? WE probably had the same thing back in 1982. Big whoop.

What exactly gives everyone here the right to have their own space program, but not NK?

I mean, morally its wrong in that they should try feeding their people better... but that still doesn't mean that they don't have the right to build a rocket, nor does it mean that you should invade them to try and stop it or something stupid like that.quote>

You best be trollin. As hym and mightygoose said, it went a against a treaty they signed that gave away their rights to build rockets.

As for expense... Well, launching a more conventionall rocket is nowhere near the half billion cost of the space shuttle. But then again, even NASA admits that the shuttle was a mistake (its so cheap to build a new rocket that reusing it really isn't worth the extra expense). Want proof ? A private company launched their own rocket in september of last year.quote>

What kind of proof is that? Private companies can make billions of dollars a year. You make it sound like companies are barely making 10s of millions of dollars. Go look at the Fortune 500 list of Top performers. A lot of companies can make rockets if they found they needed to or wanted to.

Oh no, guess we should raid their company, they must be upto something sinister! according to hym, the info they got from that launch could help them with a missile program!quote>

Well, if the company was some sort of threat to the US then yes, we should raid the company and strip them of their rocket program. But as long as they are nice to us then it's okay. What I think you want is sort of Communism, where everyone is treated equal no matter what. Though I agree it works in theory, we can never ever ever EVER!!! have it because of our self interests. The US does not like NK because of political reasons so of course we restrict them because they don't like us either! Opposing political ideas usually try to eliminate each other so by letting NK have these weapons is basically inviting them to attack us. That is the same reason we are not worried about Israel. They like us, we like them, no need to restrict them. Now, if we switched things around and NK was the US and the US was NK, then I would expect nothing different. This is how the world works and we can't treat it like preschool.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Surely it should be easy enough to tell wether or not it's a satellite. After all

It's not rocket science!

[hym 358]

It's not that simple.  The missile carries its payload internally, so you can't just take pictures of it and figure it out from there.  Short of being able to see inside it, there really is no way to be sure what it was carrying.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Originally posted by: hym

It's not that simple.  The missile carries its payload internally, so you can't just take pictures of it and figure it out from there.  Short of being able to see inside it, there really is no way to be sure what it was carrying.

quote>

I thought America's spy satellites were pretty good at seeing what's going on.

[cirvianum 0]

One thing is true: second by second, we're nearer to the next World War.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Merlin of Flyote

Originally posted by: hym

It's not that simple.  The missile carries its payload internally, so you can't just take pictures of it and figure it out from there.  Short of being able to see inside it, there really is no way to be sure what it was carrying.

quote>

I thought America's spy satellites were pretty good at seeing what's going on.quote>

American spy satellites are some of the best in the world, but that doesn't mean that they can do everything.

There is also the fact that the US may well know what the payload really was, but doesn't want to say because that would jeporadize aspects other sensitive operations.  It's happened before where the US knew exactly what was going on in XYZ situation and had the proof, but couldn't share that proof with anyone else without risking revealing the names of secret agents, classified details about intelligence programs, or some other such thing.

[Legosim 14]

Even if they put a satellite in orbit, what would the satellite do? does it spy on us? take pictures?

it would really be just another piece of junk floating miles above us, NK's technology I think isn't advanced to put a satelite in orbit

[Legosim 14]

Even if they put a satellite in orbit, what would the satellite do? does it spy on us? take pictures?

it would really be just another piece of junk floating miles above us, NK's technology I think isn't advanced to put a satelite in orbit

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Originally posted by: hym

Originally posted by: Merlin of Flyote

I thought America's spy satellites were pretty good at seeing what's going on.quote>

American spy satellites are some of the best in the world, but that doesn't mean that they can do everything.

There is also the fact that the US may well know what the payload really was, but doesn't want to say because that would jeporadize aspects other sensitive operations.  It's happened before where the US knew exactly what was going on in XYZ situation and had the proof, but couldn't share that proof with anyone else without risking revealing the names of secret agents, classified details about intelligence programs, or some other such thing.

quote>

Yes of course, for agent based information you have to keep mum. Bit different with satellite pictures though. Everybody knows the satellites are up there, that's no secret. Not even to the enemy.

[Jezus53 18]

Originally posted by: Legosim

Even if they put a satellite in orbit, what would the satellite do? does it spy on us? take pictures?

it would really be just another piece of junk floating miles above us, NK's technology I think isn't advanced to put a satelite in orbitquote>

The problem was never the satelite, it was the rocket launch. Have you been following this story?

[mightygoose 92]

on the follow up....

"U.N. Security Council diplomats say they are close to agreeing on sanctions against three North Korean companies for helping launch a missile.

The council's sanctions committee met privately to meet Friday's deadline for recommending goods and entities to be blacklisted under a 2006 resolution targeting long-range missiles and nuclear activities.

The United States proposed 11 firms for the list, while Japan proposed 14, but they ran into opposition from China, Russia and other nations, diplomats said.

The council also is weighing a ban on imports and exports of some sensitive technology used to build long-range missiles.

The actions stem from North Korea's rocket launch earlier this month. Eight days after the launch, the council unanimously condemned it and agreed to expand sanctions."

should have specifics tomorrow.