Nycc06's BAT Workshop

[nycc06 229]

I'll export the building so i'll need the finished model file. More details will be given soon.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I think a contest is a good idea. Earlier in the summer I had thought of organizing one myself.

A point that sticks out to me though, is that you'll be uploading it. If I were to make a BAT, I would expect that I'd upload it myself. Also, when you make the competition thread, you'll need to include more specific information about the requirements. What would be ideal is a mock up in SC4, showing exactly how everything will fit together in the end (so you'd export some massing models, and lot them, and then plop them according to how you plan on doing it for your final versions). We'd also need to know what the angle of that road is supposed to be.

[nycc06 229]

Jasoncw: thanks for pointing out this issue, what i'll do instead is a version of the winning design that will have a non-diagonal base can be uploaded by the creator as a separate BAT upload to the stex. Then i will use the model file for the BAT and import it into the final WTC Complex model and upload that separately so that way the creator can still have the BAT as their upload as well.

On a separate note, i have played about with using 3dsmax now for a few days, but can't seem to get the hang of it just yet. At present i still prefer using gmax software as i'm much more confident in using it. Because of this reason, i will continue to model in gmax until i become more comfortable in using 3ds max. Here's a peak at the progress so far on Four WTC.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

oh no don't!!! You'll regret it!! Use max!!!

Also, if the design is to be rendered with your model, then they need to be made with the same program.  The different versions of max aren't compatible with each other or with gmax.

[Kryptowhite 9]

Max is different at first but once you fool around a bit you'll probably find its much easier to model in because of all the extra things it's capable of doing. It takes a bit of time to get used to and you may have to change the way you model a bit, but it won't be too much of a change once your used to it. The most difficult things IMO are getting the lighting and materials right, however, we have a number of genius's in this community who are excellent with 3ds and can help you. And SimFox's new scripts have made it easier than it ever was before!

[nycc06 229]

Although i know that max is much better and can do a lot more than gmax, the main problems i'm finding with max at the minute is that once the design starts getting quite detailed, the program slows down so much that it takes longer than gmax does to perform simple tasks that have been asked. Also in comparison to gmax, i don't understand how max works properly. Also, i don't know if the nightlighting for the windows works in the same way as gmax.

Another issue that i have is the preview renders, which take about 10mins for a simple model that gmax would only take about 1 minute to render because there is no option in BAT4max to change the quality of the renders from draft, low, medium and high.

My actual plan for the complex was to model the towers in gmax, export the models then in 3dsmax creating the complex base with the memorial, then use bixels idea of invisible boxes in the shape of the other towers to cast the correct shadows without increasing model size. After this, all the pieces could be joined together in the lot editor. The design competition bat would be exported with the 3dsmax model. Also another probelm is that the Freedom Tower was completed in gmax and to have all the other buildings completed in max would mean that the towers would not match each other and i don't want to have to model the Freedom Tower again in max.

[SimFox 802]

The only way to learn Max is using it!

I just can't believe that Max could be slower than GMAX. That is technically impossible.

About "getting quite detailed" management of the scene is an important part of overall process. Don't created thousands of objects - it is illogical and pointless burden for the program. Don't use groups - they are EVIL. Use layers to organize your scene.

True Preview doesn't have different settings, but you can set them yourself- want faster render - lower your AA and FG (if you use Mental Ray).

On the other hand I see little point in preview that doesn't actually show you what you gonna see in game... That is a main reason why I di't make those settings and am not gonna make them in the future.

As many had pointed Max is tremendously better and actually easier to work with. In terms of modeling it mainly comes as a speed of actual modeling process, set of tools and level of precision that could easily be achieved. The last one - precision is something sadly overlooked in BAT community..

About competition...

As Jason was pointing out to you different versions of 3ds MAX are not forward compatible, meaning you will NOT be able to open in 3ds Max 8 model that was made in 3ds Max 9 and so on... This poses serious problem... In order to ensure that everything works you would have to have the latest version of the program.

True also that there will be difference between models exported from Max and those from GMAX. The principle questions is do you want you final thing look good or just same. The project you've undertaken, to put it simply, can't be done on a good level in GMAX. So your choice is to make it worse than it could (and should) just for the sake of one tower or make it better and then have V2 of the Freedom tower ready.

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Forget Gmax!! The very day I got Max I stopped using it for good.

You may think it's all nice and familiar, and that Max is all big and scary and advanced, but the basics are all the same. You'll be kicking yourself later when you’re trying to export a complicated Gmax model into Max - which is near impossible and damn tricky. Bottom like is you'll have big problems later on down the track with this project if you don't make the switch now. Listen to SF, he's a smart guy.

and i don't want to have to model the Freedom Tower again in maxquote>

IMO, if you’re serious about this, you will. Freedom tower would be absolutely STUNNING if it were exported from Max, think about it, the reflections, the nightlighting…

[nycc06 229]

Ok, i have taken into consideration what you guys have said, ....and i will try and give max another go, howevr, so that i can get more used to it first, i will try my hand at a much smaller side project that i have been attempting to model before giong ahead with the full on WTC complex. A couple of issues that i want to address.

Firtsly, i'm not sure how to use the layers method of modelling. In all of my gmax projects, i've grouped all of the objects together.

Also, i'm not sure how the well the software would work if the entire complex was modelled in one file.

Also being new to max, three of my main concerns are how to do window nightlighting which i presume dosen't work in the same way as gmax with adding the "nite" prefix to objects. Also, with reflections, again, i'm not sure how to actually make reflective windows. Finally i've noticed that the grid system in max is different for gmax. Each of the squares are only 9m x 9m whilst gmax is 16m x 16m, i don't know if each of the sqaures in max's grid match up to the size of one tile each in sc4.

The help on these matters would be appreaciated, and thanks for the encouraging support. I think really the main reason why i started to lean away from max is that i have become to comfortable in using gmax.

[SimFox 802]

well, I have one and a crucial answer to you

MAX Help!

it has tutorials that will take you through main features of the program and answer most of the questions.

So, you say you don't know how to use Layers method of modeling... well, first of all it is not a method of modeling, it is just the way to organize things in your scene. And it pretty much the same as in Photoshop, Illustrator etc. But if you want to know details - learn them. Open you Max Help and type in Layers and see what you gonna get there. One somewhat unfortunate thing about Max that few things have virtually same names that could be a bit confusing at times but with a little experience you'll learn to sort things out.

For instance now, with layers you're trying to get you scene organized - so select infos that actually link two things together.

Same goes for the grid etc...

Another key point, remember you are making a model in 3ds max, not a "bat"... so don't liming yourself to the "bat tutorials". These, unfortunately more often than not either quite inefficient or just very limiting and keep to stup down to GMAX level rather than using the full tool array of MAX. Of course if you just starting and starting with GMAX and never heard of 3d modeling before those are first things you're likely to come around. But with max you have to and luckily can cast your net wider! There is huge 3d modeling community out there. Go to sites like www.evermotion.org, www.mymentalray.com, http://area.autodesk.com/ , http://forums.cgsociety.org/ , ect...

Of course some very specific BAT issues, like nightwindows thing you've mentioned you would need to come for advise to here. And to answer this particular one I have to say it depends. depends on the version of Max your' using. In Max7 you can still do it the same way as you did in GMAX. but in Max 8+ not anymore... It's probably fixable, but I doubt anyone would bother to actually do it, as there are far more superior tools available in Max more then compensate te miss on this one. What is a "night windows" in GAMX - it is nothing more then mask through which you see a flat piece of self-illuminated material with one of 3 textures.

In max you can also assign a self-illuminated material to the geometry and either put in in night library - a bit cumbersome way, or go truNite way and stay completely WYSIWYG which is far more intuitive, although not without some "costs".

I'll be following your progress and try to answer BAT-specific questions you might have.

[nycc06 229]

Hi everyone, sorry I havn't posted anything in this thread for a while, i've been working on a project for dirk involving two new bats that are for exclusive release on the stex collectors disk Vol3. The bats included are re-worked versions of old gmax towers that i strated last year. The pics below shows the two bats. Hope you all like.

Hammond Tower

Amethyst Hotel Tower

[Ferrariguy1000 43]

Nycc06: Those are awesome! The Hammond Tower might look cool with an antenna.

[SimRabbit 48]

Really nice buildings nycc.

It really reminds me of the Frost tower in Austin, although it is much shorter and different shape.

Also nice job on the nightlighting.

[Francis90b 748]

Those buildings are wonderful, nycc06.

Lighting is really good too, though i must say i prefer the second over the first on this aspect.

[jacqulina 162]

very nice work

[mben92 9]

Those buildings look great.

[Kryptowhite 9]

nice purple nightlights Thats a beautiful tower, although I'm curious how you got the name at the bottom, "Aymetmyst Hotel"

[allan_kuan1992 6]

wait... these are exclusive release? Will SC4D receive any of these files anytime soon or will there be an exclusivity period?

I hear a lot of people talking about 3dsMax and its benefits over GMax... however no one really addressed or took into consideration his computer... from one of the above posts the computer slows down very fast. nycc06, is it possible to get a computer upgrade or is that somewhat difficult to do or fit into your schedule due to RL budget or time constraints?

- Allan Kuan

[nycc06 229]

Thanks for the replies everyone. allan_kuan1992: Yes the bats are for exclusive release only for a period of time and will not be made available on the sc4devotion site. However, dirk has said that they can be made available to the stex after the exclusivity period has ended, but I myself don't know when that will be yet. Btw, thanks for your support on gmax. I haven't yet had the chance to really have a go with 3dsmax, although i am willing to give it a go, i still prefer using, gmax at the moment. But who knows, in time that may change......

[Simcity player 13]

Is the nwtc project on hold?

[nycc06 229]

Simcity player:, Yes unfortunatly, for the time being the whole complex is on hold. It will definately be finished, but for now i'm afraid, it will be a while before any new progress on the site will be made.

[kellydale2003 2,276]

Your overall progress - What's your estimate?

I have all the modeling down to scale (all buildings), but I don't know how to night light in 3DS MAX. I think It would be kinda nice to render this project in 3DSMAX.  And I gotta get it transit enabeled. I know I'm not welcome at SC4D and that's the first place I would go after 2 years of absence.

85% (est. because of nightlighting)

But hey great work - Let's work on this together and not be rivals

         , Kelly Edwards

[nycc06 229]

I agree we should work together, because i really could use the help with project. At present, i haven't done any modelling in 3dsmax, all the past modelling was done in gmax which i got as far as four WTC, as a gmax project i would estimate about 25% completed, in terms of 3dsmax, 0% at present. I'm on good terms with people over at SC4D so I could help with the transit enabling. What version of max are you using?

[mosin33 5]

Wow. Those towers look amazing! Nightlighting is very good and I see you have darker night mod which really makes them look realistic aswell.

Look great but from what I have read they are only for STEX disc? So they wont show up on STEX? what a shame.

Great job with those towers, I love them!

[WARGOD 11]

Looks good like always.

[kellydale2003 2,276]

I'm using 3DS MAX 7 - I got the file into 3DS MAX because mine was both built in Blender and Gmax. So I have to fix some splines here and there to make it look neater.

I almost perfected the Diamonds on WTC 2 - but the scale is a bit off. It doesn't look as snazzy as it should.

Whats 3DS Max are you using?

The only thing I don't know how to do besides TEL's is making the sunken part of the model into the lot. The sunken part doesn't look like it should. Instead of water there's just the lot texture. Do you know how to fix this?

I wonder if it's possible to animate the water falls properly. But than again it would be nice to have decent water reflections both day and night. Which do you prefer? Animated or reflections?

[ac94 5]

OMG!! It's a combined project now! This is a dream come true. The NWTC being made by 2 extremely good BATers!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Why do you need to choose between animation and reflections?

[JakeMD 107]

The only thing I don't know how to do besides TEL's is making the sunken part of the model into the lot. The sunken part doesn't look like it should. Instead of water there's just the lot texture. Do you know how to fix this?quote>

The LOD Can't be beneath 0,0.

[nycc06 229]

I'm using max2009. As for the problem you mentioned, i'm not sure how to fix it. In regards to the reflections or animations in the pools, i would prefer the reflections. As for TEL's, i will speak to Ripplejet and see what can be done with the lot.