Australia joins "the club"

[General_santos 39]

Hello, I would like to bring this to attention

http:/arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081016-net-filters-required-for-all-australians-no-opt-out.html

Our Australian "government" plans to start their no opt out internet filter sometime next year. A blacklist would include torrent sites, *beep*, etc.

I think this a major step backwards for a country which desires to immerse itself in the global village, and it is a blow to our personal freedoms. It also conflicts with my political beliefs.

Your thoughts?

[drevilshenchman 4]

For all of the United States' faults, they really have it down when it comes to freedom of speech. Not only will this attempt at prior restraint fail miserably, but it is certainly a step backwards for australia. First the internet is censored, then what? Press? Speech? Expression? While well intended, this attempt to "filter" illegal sites spits in the face of civil liberty.

[Meg 368]

A "blacklist that filters what the Australian government determines is illegal content" ?

I can't help but wonder who get to decide what gets filtered and what doesn't.

Even if you trust those people now, who is going to be making the decisions in 10 years?  (to pick a random time in the future.)

What are the checks and balances that would keep this from becoming draconian?

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek A "blacklist that filters what the Australian government determines is illegal content" ?

I can't help but wonder who get to decide what gets filtered and what doesn't.

Even if you trust those people now, who is going to be making the decisions in 10 years?  (to pick a random time in the future.)

What are the checks and balances that would keep this from becoming draconian?quote>

 

That would be a long list.

If its instituted at all.

[memedoug85 36]

I'd have to be sent to some sort of torrent rehab if i couldnt download. Crap

[hamsterTK 93]

This is horrible. I read about this a while back but didn't know it passed.

don't what to say though, I know that Biden is for this kind of thing too, which is scary from a "liberal" candidate. And don't think voting McCain would help, because Republican social conservatives seem just as likely to want something like this.

Just like in Australia, scum in both parties manage to **** everyone, hooray!

[mightymightychatham 0]

Sadly, the great, free country that I love is dying.  This is just another step down that road.

I think it was Benjamin Franklin that wrote:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

[Duke87 1,070]

This sounds scarily like that "great firewall of China" thing.

[GrandCentralParkway 1]

Originally posted by: Duke87 This sounds scarily like that "great firewall of China" thing.quote>

It sounds a lot like the great firewall of China (officially "Golden Shield") as in both cases it's the government deciding what people should be allowed to access online.  Internet access, and information in general, should be open and it is up to each person to determine what is appropriate content and what isn't.

/rant

[hamsterTK 93]

Now all they need is a clever cartoon mascot to spit in their citizens faces!

JingJing and Chacha, meet "Henry the Censorship Kangaroo!

[TV-VCR 15]

The internet is on it's deathbed.

[Patricius Maximus 236]

Was 1984 24 years off? This is totalitarianism at its core -- limiting what the people can see to what the government wants them to see. This is how Stalin, Hitler, and many other totalitarians and fascists controlled their subjects, which they regarded as having no rights.

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression without harming others, without interference from the state. Censorship masquerading as for the citizens' benefit inevitably ends up harming them, because censorship is the first step to oppression.

Some quotes from constitutional documents:

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expressionquote>

Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or of the pressquote>

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security quote>

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and beliefquote>

No one shall be disquieted on account of his opinionsquote>

The free communication of ideas and opinions is one of the most precious of the rights of man. Every citizen may, accordingly, speak, write, and print with freedom.quote>

All these documents limit or prohibit government censorship of communication -- and with a good reason -- to avoid totalitarianism, unrest, and oppression.

Anyone who takes this measure lightly, take a second look at oppressive and totalitarian regimes throughout history.

Stalin and Hitler would have approved of the Australian government.

- Patricius Maximus

[JakeMD 107]

Sounds to me like they are just trying to enforce international copyright laws..

[TV-VCR 15]

Originally posted by: SWAT-MEDIC Sounds to me like they are just trying to enforce international copyright laws..quote>

Either they are very stupid or very smart. I hope they are just stupid. This is not the way to combat piracy and enforce copyright law. *smacks head on desk*

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Patricius Maximus

Some quotes from constitutional documents:

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expressionquote>

Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or of the pressquote>

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security quote>

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and beliefquote>

No one shall be disquieted on account of his opinionsquote>

The free communication of ideas and opinions is one of the most precious of the rights of man. Every citizen may, accordingly, speak, write, and print with freedom.quote>

quote>

Are any of those quotes from actual Australian laws or other Australian legal precedents?  I realize they speak to universal ideals, but legally, the US Constitution doesn't mean much abroad.

[Yeah_Right 2]

blocking torrents will not combat piracy.

below is hypothetically speaking,

hypothetically, say if i had a few pirated movies, and the AFP (Australian Federal Police) banged down my door and took my computer, technically they would be combating piracy, but they have better things to do, and i would find another way to get movies.

just like napster was banned, and there was a huge outrage, this may be banned, but piracy will live on.  they should focus on the core of the problem, which nobody knows...

_{this user is in no way admitting to using piracy software, or promoting piracy}

because this user is using small, professional language,

he is awesome.

[Cockatoo 2,257]

What? THE government is going to FILTER the internet. I'd herd about this... but I didn't actually think they were going to go ahead with it!

I really don't support this, a government should never have the power over the internet, it should be up to the people to moderate themselves. What's to stop them taking an approach similar to the Chinese... I mean I know it would never get to that stage, but this effectively gives them the power.

Good one Kev, or was this first announced by Howard, I assume this will be done on a federal level...

[Patricius Maximus 236]

Are any of those quotes from actual Australian laws or other Australian legal precedents?  I realize they speak to universal ideals, but legally, the US Constitution doesn't mean much abroad.quote>

Simple Answer: No.

Those quotes are not for Australian legal documents, but all of these, in their respective countries, guard against censorship, as the men who wrote them knew what it would lead to...

- Patricius Maximus

[IDS2 3,428]

The Land Down Under is going to the other Land Down Under...bad idea, Australia is a free country like the US, and its citizens deserve the right to do whatever they want on the Internet (except for maybe hacking and running terrorist organizations)

[Red1530 1]

I find this very disturbing. I though that the Australians are rated higher then the United States in terms of freedom of speech.

[Namesys 3]

they aren't now lol.

Maybe if Mccain is elected in USA the rates will become similar.

[General_santos 39]

Looks like the government is already trying to silence the critics

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/biztech/labors-net-gag-worse-than-iran/2008/10/23/1224351430987.html

It is appalling what the government is doing just to further its flawed agenda.

[Patricius Maximus 236]

What the people of Australia, and most developed countries, need is more freedom, not less.

Child pornography, like adult pornography, in my view, is not intrinsically unethical. When the actors are forced or coerced into making the film, then it is unethical, be they children or adults.

Yes, this kind of pornography is despicable. Yes, it is unethical. But this type of pornography does not justify the formation of a totalitarian state. 

I say totalitarian not because it will instantly transform into one, but that this law lays the most solid foundation for such a state -- government control of the transfer of information. This, more than anything else, enables the complete destruction of the freedoms Australians and their ancestors have fought and died for for centuries.

This law, possibly even more so then what it intends to prevent, is unethical.

- Patricius Maximus

[Red1530 1]

Originally posted by: Namesys they aren't now lol.

Maybe if Mccain is elected in USA the rates will become similar.quote>

I personally think Sen. Obama will cause our ranking to drop considering his campaign's recent actions.  

I think that the fact the Australian government is trying to suppress criticism of the project as disturbing as the project itself.

[Mebert 5]

I'll be honest, I can't see this as being quite as serious as most of you portray it to be. Yes, it's wrong, and yes, it's a violation of freedom of speech, to some extent - but it's hardly totalitarianism or the like.

Let me put it this way. We survived with free speech long before the internet was even thought of. Just because the government wants to censor pornography doesn't mean that they'll start creating an index of banned books.

[hamsterTK 93]

Let me put it this way. We survived with free speech long before the internet was even thought of. Just because the government wants to censor pornography doesn't mean that they'll start creating an index of banned books.quote>

since your profile says your from NY, meaning you refer to the US in this statement, then I gotta say...No we didn't.

Go back the era of pre-Civil War abolitionist movements, then reconstruction, back when the government scanned the mail and banned certain groups from promoting their causes. If it wasn't government it was vigilante groups that were allowed to get away with murder. Free Speech, hell most of the constitution was not even followed for a large part of American history.

Here's the deal, from a technical standpoint most of the world's more advanced governments are perfectly capable of censoring sites and spying on internet users right now. The reason why they don't start using these capabilities and act like China is that the public would not tolerate it and there would be a political upheaval. But if that were to change, if laws like this one in Oz start to gain traction, then there is no limit to what they can do. As soon as it becomes acceptable, it will happen and before you know it the internet will be a minefield where anything you say can be held against you and laws against things nobody ever considered before will materialise simply because they are enforcable. You must be aware of the sheer depth of the scum in government.

This is what happened with the postal service in the 1800's, obviously it's real easy to pick through mail and destroy stuff you don't like, and this started happening when the public and populist leaders tolerated it.

Anyways, frankly I don't see what is so wrong with legal, non-exploitative, adult porn. The only minors who are going to see it are some horny teenage boys and I seriously doubt they need to be "protected" from it.

For kiddie porn, I strongly believe that it is wrong because it's child abuse, and I am glad authorities are doing something about it. But censor software won't work on it's own, sites have to be discovered before they can be blocked and taken down, and I think it takes undercover people to do this. Kind of like drugs, it's not like a uniformed cop just walks into a club and starts asking people if they have drugs, rather it's obviously more elaborate than that.

[Deathtoall 28]

I am Australian and i was happy when we kicked the old lot out to replace them with them and now they want to censor my net. You have no mandate to do so!

Child pornography and as such is wrong but filtering the nnet is a one-size fits all approach. Which won't work! If they do there will always be another way!

I didn't vote for an Authoritarian government! Censoring the net is the first step to a place of no free speech. Shame Kevin shame! No blanket approaches!

Did i make myself clear? Obviously it's not that extreme, sure take down kiddie porn and such, but i fear it will used elsewhere.

[stingstingsting 4]

This is rly authoritarian.

The worst things can happen with the best intentions. And yea to deathtoall; the ppl who are the most keen to get child porn will definitely skirt the system and find their own ways. Definitely. So you kill the whole town to get at one person. Sigh.

Anyways, it seems Labour doesnt apparently follow Liberal policies huh? Haha i f you get the lame pun here. eek.

PS the saving grace, if it even is, is this quote in the herald article;

"But neither filter tier will be capable of censoring content obtained over peer-to-peer file sharing networks, which account for an estimated 60 per cent of internet traffic."

Cheers.

[Patricius Maximus 236]

Here's the deal, from a technical standpoint most of the world's more advanced governments are perfectly capable of censoring sites and spying on internet users right now. The reason why they don't start using these capabilities and act like China is that the public would not tolerate it and there would be a political upheaval. But if that were to change, if laws like this one in Oz start to gain traction, then there is no limit to what they can do. As soon as it becomes acceptable, it will happen and before you know it the internet will be a minefield where anything you say can be held against you and laws against things nobody ever considered before will materialise simply because they are enforcable. You must be aware of the sheer depth of the scum in government.quote>

Precisely why I am strongly against government censorship.

But censor software won't work on it's own, sites have to be discovered before they can be blocked and taken down, and I think it takes undercover people to do this.quote>

Yep, and soon you have... the Gestapo .

Child pornography and as such is wrong but filtering the net is a one-size fits all approach. Which won't work! If they do there will always be another way!quote>

Precisely. That's why the 'War on Drugs' is an uphill battle, and so it will be with this -- enormous cost with little benefit.

The only minors who are going to see it are some horny teenage boys and I seriously doubt they need to be "protected" from it.quote>

Well, what difference does it make if they see it at 15 or 18? Besides, I don't think many youth and children are interested in pornography, anyway.

I am Australian and i was happy when we kicked the old lot out to replace them with them and now they want to censor my net.quote>

I know little about Australian politics, but maybe you should vote for a party that is against censorship (if there is one nowadays).