Georgia and Russia basically at war

[redfox85 659]

Russia has bombed Poti, a port city located well away from South Osseita, and has bombed air fields near Tbilisi, the capitial of Georgia according to reports. If true, then Russia isnt after South Osseita, there after all of Georgia. And with Sochi within distance of an air strike, at this point in time I would not be surprised if Georgia bombed them. For those who forgot, Sochi, a russian city, is the host of the 2014 winter olympics.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Russian forces move into georgia.

CNN.coms main Headline

John Edwards had an Affair.

I love our media.
 


Edit: Even on  TV CNN is running the Edwards story,  the other news channels are covering the Edwards thing too. 

not even a scroll about Russia. Boggles the mind.  
opps theres the scroll.

[Follarch 327]

A war between Russia and Georgia could turn into a war between Russia and the United States. Hope that my brother (who said that) is wrong, things need to calm down over there before things get out of hand. You all know how politics work. A nation attacking another nations ally, what happens? Yeah, I know, I know!

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes Russian forces move into georgia.

CNN.coms main Headline

John Edwards had an Affair.

I love our media.

quote>

And guess where "Fighting with Russia spreads across Georgia" ranked?

After "Ticker:  Hillary Clinton reacts to Edwards affair"

as I keep asking:  what is wrong with these people?

[Easy Bakes 253]

Both Putin and Bush are at the Olympics.

Seems to a  good time for some talking.

Unless its like that situation on Babylon 5 with Lando and G'kar

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

This is sad to say the least. I was poking around looking for articles on this topic after hearing about it and I came across this one. It seems this has been smoldering for some time now, since '06 by the date of the article. Just though it was interesting to see that this still has the potential to "degenerate quickly into a real disaster". Despite the title, I don't think Bush (or anyone in the US)  lost any sleep over it at the time.

*Ugh* this could get ugly...

-Todd

[justintime 8]

Originally posted by: Anung Mwka Russia has bombed Poti, a port city located well away from South Osseita, and has bombed air fields near Tbilisi, the capitial of Georgia according to reports. If true, then Russia isnt after South Osseita, there after all of Georgia. And with Sochi within distance of an air strike, at this point in time I would not be surprised if Georgia bombed them. For those who forgot, Sochi, a russian city, is the host of the 2014 winter olympics.quote>

Now, if this was 1999 you would sound like this

Originally posted by: Anung Mwka in 1999

N.A.T.O. has bombed Nis, a city located well away from Kosovo, and has bombed air fields near Belgrade, the capitial of Serbia according to reports. If true, then N.A.T.O. isnt after Kosovo, there after all of Serbia. And with the Aircraft carrier within distance of an air strike, at this point in time I would not be surprised if Serbia bombed it. For those who forgot, USS Theodore Roosevelt, a American N.AT.O. ship, is the host of the airraids on serbia.quote>

Now, if most of you sit back and look at all the facts, then you'll understand that this situation is exactly like Kosovo, but with RUSSIA IN THE RIGHT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN ATLEAST A HUNDRED YEARS

[borntoboogie 15]

I also read that Georgia are withdrawing half of their contingent from Iraq to help in the war, and have asked the US if they can borrow some planes to fly their troops back. They have put the US in quite a difficult situation with that one.

However... it is my belief that Russia cannot win this war, even though they could easily annihilate Georgia with their Military power. There will be international outcry if Russia annexes Georgia or even South Osetia. Unless of course this is the beginnings of WW3, and we will just appease Russia for a while until they overstep the mark and invade somewhere like Poland. Georgia on the other hand can either win or lose. If they capture South Osetia (very unlikely) then that will be their victory, or it will become independent which will qualify as a loss.

but thats just my opinion, and a very simplified one at that!

[Aontan 0]

Georgia declares state of war

Saturday, 9 August 2008 13:16

Georgia's parliament has approved a state of war across the ex-Soviet country following days of fighting against separatists in its South Ossetia region and their Russian allies.

President Mikheil Saakashvili said the state of war will be valid for 15 days.

Earlier President Saakashvili has called for an immediate ceasefire and said Russia has launched a full-scale military invasion of his country.

Mr Saakashvili said his country is officially in a state of war after Tbilisi accused Moscow of bombing Georgian civilian areas.

Russia said it had seized control of the rebel capital, Tskhinvali, but Georgia denied the claim.

Fighting is intensifying in South Ossetia amid reports that Georgian forces have shot down two Russian fighter jets and captured a pilot.

Russian warplanes widened the offensive outside the immediate conflict zone to include strikes deep inside Georgia on the second day of fighting.

Russia's defence ministry denied its fighter jets were bombarding civilian areas and confirmed two of its planes had been shot down over Georgia.

Tbilisi said six Russian fighters had been downed.

Georgia and the administration in South Ossetia traded claims of control over Tskhinvali since early yesterday but Russia said today it had 'liberated' the breakaway capital after airlifting paratroopers into the city.

Russian fighter jets bombed a Georgian artillery position about 10km north of the town of Gori.

Gori is about 50km from the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali, the focus of fighting between Georgian forces and Russian-backed separatists, and outside the breakaway province itself.

The main Georgian military base in the region is situated there.

Reports suggest that the warplane dropped a bomb on an apartment block in Gori, killing at least two people.

Martial law

Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili has said he will ask parliament to approve the introduction of martial law while Georgian forces battle Russian and separatist forces in South Ossetia.

Fighting in the capital of the breakaway Georgian region has killed about 1,600 people, according to a separatist spokeswoman.

A top Russian official has said that more than 30,000 refugees have fled South Ossetia for Russia since the beginning of the Georgian offensive.

Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Sobyanin said: 'Effectively, we have a humanitarian catastrophe.'

Georgian President Mikheil Saakahvili denounced as a lie Russian claims of over 1,000 civilian deaths in South Ossetia's capital, saying 'practically no civilians' were killed.

Meanwhile Russian president Dmitry Medvednev said his troops in South Ossetia are carrying out a peace enforcement operation aimed at protecting civilians.

'Our peacekeepeers and reinforcement units are currently running an operation to force the Georgian side to (agree to) peace,' Mr Medvedev was quoted as saying at a meeting with Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov.

He said that they are also responsible for protecting the population.

Chief of General Staff Nikolai Makarov was also present at the meeting called to update the president on the situation.

Russian troops poured into South Ossetia yesterday, hours after Georgia launched a large-scale offensive aimed at restoring control over the province lost after a war in the early 1990s.

Russia is the main backer of South Ossetian separatists and the majority of the population, who are ethnically different from Georgians, have been given Russian passports.

Tbilisi accuses Russia of launching a war against it.

Russia sent fresh reinforcements overnight, which according to Russian news agencies have reached the regional capital Tskhinvali where fierce battles rage.

The Russian military said more reinforcements were on their way.

Meanwhile, Georgia is to bring its entire Iraq contingent of 2,000 soldiers home as soon as the US can provide transport, the commander of the unit Colonel Bondo Maisuradze has said.

Tensions in Abkhazia

Elsewhere, Russian warplanes have also bombed two villages in the Tbilisi-controlled part of the Kodori gorge, which cuts deep into Georgia's breakaway region of Abkhazia.

Raul Kiria, a spokesman for pro-Tbilisi Abkhaz government in exile, could not confirm if there were any casualties or damage.

However, Abkhaz separatists said their planes rather than Russian warplanes were bombing the area.

Tensions have risen over Abkhazia since Tbilisi sent troops yesterday to retake control over South Ossetia.

Both regions broke away from Tbilisi's rule after bloody wars in the early 1990s and rule out returning in any form.

Abkhazia has accused Georgia's pro-Western President Mikheil Saakashvili of moving security forces to the upper part of the Kodori gorge, a comfortable route for any invasion into the region.

Georgia has denied a military build-up, but made the Kodori gorge headquarters for a loyal Abkhaz government in exile.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0809/georgia.html

quote>

So it's officially a war now...

Anyone else see the hypocrisy/irony in the fact Russia provides all the "support" it can to breakaway states (eg. South Ossetia and Abkhazia) but has no tolerance whatsoever for regions within its own borders that want more autonomy (eg. Chechnya)?

[justintime 8]

Originally posted by: Aontan

Anyone else see the hypocrisy/irony in the fact Russia provides all the "support" it can to breakaway states (eg. South Ossetia and Abkhazia) but has no tolerance whatsoever for regions within its own borders that want more autonomy (eg. Chechnya)quote>

Chechnya was a safe haven for Terrorist, and GEORGIA & RUSSIA HAD A AGREEMENT OVER OSSETIA

Which Georgia broke when they bombed the capital, invaded Ossetia, and killed Russian peacekeepers, and again 80% of Ossetians have Russian citizenship.

[BurroDiablo 222]

I just want to clear some things up...

1. Russia is looking for a fight but this is NOT the beggining of World War 3... we had a bigger chance of that happening during the Cold War and it didn't, Russia has been in bigger disputes than this in the past and its never resulted in a gigantic war.

2. America will NOT get involved. If the Russians catch wind of even the slightest American intervention. you could see them becoming even more aggressive. America can still say nasty things to Russia, make threats or try and calm things down, but millitary intervention is a nono.

3. This seems like a distpute over Georgia joining NATO, not a Conquest for former glory. NATO can either take Georgia on board and protect them or, Decline Georgia's membership on the grounds that it will cause more trouble than its worth... the latter I think Russia is trying to achieve.

Since this is officially a War however... you can literally count the seconds until the US sends in its first Diplomat

[Craig91 12]

I agree with Elburro,not much will come of this on an worldwide scale. Georgia is too unimportant a country (no offense) to risk war between the US and Russia. Most likely the Americans will just keep talking about it, maybe hold peace talks.

[borntoboogie 15]

no I wasn't saying this was the start of WW3! just that this ould be a spark for larger tensions. I'm just saying that if Russia were to conquer all or Georgia with no major consequences then it would seem much like the beginning of WW2 (hence the Poland reference)

[BurroDiablo 222]

It will start larger tensions, yes, but the war shouldn't esculate anymore than it has already given the rest of the world try to contain it. Instead of giving Russia what IT wants (like Britain did in WW2 with Germany), give the people of Ossetia what THEY want. The problem here is that the world has already made way for 1 breakaway state this year... are we going to have another before the year is over with? It seems like the world is becoming more and more divided despite being closer together

[Patricius Maximus 236]

Well, it's war. I think that Georgia, with little support as it is now, will fall to Russia.

I must say that the way they did it was smart. While Putin goes to the Olympics and the rest of the World is watching it, Medvedev and his tanks roll over Georgia.

What I think is strange about this is the Russians are marching south through Georgia. If they can conquer Armenia and go through Iran and Iraq, then they have a shot of taking over the World's oil supply.

Just a thought, but the timing is right, and do not underestimate the intelligence of Medvedev and Putin.

Lastly, the whole war reminds me of the German blitzkrieg tactics. And we are in a situation like we were in World War I, with major powers tied up in alliances and a war waiting to happen when another country acts up.

[form_s 0]

You should understand that GEORGIA has STARTED this WAR against agreement with Russia over Ossetia. Georgian troops killed more than 1500 Ossetians (most of them (90%) have Russian citizenship), 15 Russian peacekeepers. Its an ETHNIC CLRANSING. Russian troops just help Russian peacekeepers. RUSSIA DOESN'T WANT WAR. The situation differs from Chechnya, because Chechnya was a safe haven for Terrorist and Ossetia is a pea?efull de facto independent state. Georgea also wage information war and Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili tells outrageous lie. I recommend you to read about the conflict at Wikipedia

[borntoboogie 15]

you're telling us we have our facts wrong but suggest we find the truth at WIKIPEDIA ??!!

and it is very difficult to say who started the 'war' anyway. as far as I understand it it is technically the Russians who started the war because they attacked Georgian soil, and their fighter jets invaded Georgian air space

[Patricius Maximus 236]

Breaking news from CNN.com:

[Bandero 5]

I just finished watching the opening ceremonies of the Olympic Games (On my DVR since I was at Work when it was broadcasted) and that's where I found out about the conflict. Since Putin and Bush were sitting right next to each other during the entire ceremony and they were laughing and telling jokes to each other, I do not think the US will intervene or go to war over Georgia. It might protest diplomatically but that's about it. Besides that, I can not have a more detailed opinion since I do not know to much about the facts of this conflict and I am not going to read them on WIKIPEDIA.

Funny, there's a major regional war going on and the leaders of the world are just siting and laughing on the other side of the world... Well, that's not funny, it's just sad.

*EDIT* I know that Putin is not the Russian President anymore. But I do think (as many more people) that he's still in control and the Russian President Dmitry Medvedev is just his puppet.

[anubis89 108]

Why the hell does everyone think that Russia has used the Olympics to attack Georgia? Why the hell does everyone think that Russia is totally aggressive and WANTS to be in war with other nations and conquer their land and is just evil!? I can not understand that, to me it almost seems like some people do nothing but blame Russia for everything and talking about something that happened a while ago.

And of course saakashvili is defending what Georgia's done, so he is not a reliable source of information regarding this war at all.

[SimFox 804]

Originally posted by: spa Russia doesn't have a case at all. Georgia may be behaving fairly reprehensibly too in pursuing a military solution but Russia has no business being in South Osetia in the first place. It's a breakaway part of Georgia. On one hand Russia brutally crushes breakaway Chechnya, but then intervenes to prevent Georgia from doing the same. International affairs of great powers... no matter which country it is there seems to be no shortage of hypocrisy.quote>

It is, very sadly, ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

there is a good old saying (from the time of Ancient Greeks If memory serves me right) that goes something like that: "what is allowed to Zeus is not allowed to Bull". Referring for Greek main God stealing princes (?) Europe by turning into a bull and carring her away.

And the statement of Bush just issued underlines it. In a way he had simply repeated Russian statements of before... Cease fire and return to the Status Quo of August 6th. I think Saakashvili is very disappointed.

But I think Americans are quite shocked by the whole thing... In last couple of years there were several situation when similar development was averted only due to American direct political interferance to hold Saakashvili's horses so to say. No he had chosen the time when both Putin and Bush are ingaged in their respective politacl dances with Chinese to... well to be independent... Well the story of Bull...

But I'm pretty sure Russia will not move into Gerogian territory, I mean ground forces with tanks and such, it will be boming millitary installations in Georgia - but that is simple logic of modern warfare - nobody really needs any territory - and Russia least of all. But it will do everything in it's power to humiliate Saakashvili.

Taking over Armenia?? why on Earht. Armenia is very close ally of Russia and had always be one and will be. Iraque? You gonna be kidding!

I think WE here should hold our horses and not Fight between ourselves.

I absolutelly agree with what ElBurro had said: It is a sad power play where regular paople become pawns in teh hands of polititianls sitting thouseands of miles away. And that is very sad to see world falling into ever smaller pieces instead of coming together. Soon every god forsaken willage will be demanding independence. In such a development there are always winners and loosers. Normally Winners are those who grab the power on their respective hill, and everybody else - regular people are loosers...

About State of War:

It was fiunny to listen to Georgian Minister of Foregn Affairswho were doing her best live on BBC world trying explain this paradoxical situation : Gergia declares state of war but isn NOT at watr with Russia. State of War she said is just internal Gergian term... Oh the power of words...

Reality eveybody involved lies through their teath : Russia, Georgia, US.

But the very affair may give additinal boost for sepparatist all over the world who had been boosted already by sussesion of Kosovo...

[form_s 0]

+1000 I live in Russia and can't understand it too. Russia has greatly changed after disintegration of USSR and the end of the Cold War. Russia is always against wars unlike USA and NATO (Yugoslavia (1999), Iraq, etc.). War is not necessary to Russia after war with terrorists in Chechnya. Saakashvili is not popular in Georgia, probably he wished to spend small war to lift his rating.

[Simfan34 11]

Well it seems that they officially at war now indirectly.

And to think that Putin was bad... he doesn't seem that bad to Medvenev's sheer imperialistic expansionism (wow, that sound A LOT like what the old USSR characterized the NATO states as)...

[Duke87 1,070]

Almost three full pages and no "In Soviet Russia, ..." comment yet?

Shame on you people.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Why has no one pointed out how much oil moves through that region?

[form_s 0]

Oil doesn't move through South Osseita

[hamsterTK 93]

this is screwed

If there was a way to disrupt the 2014 Sochi Olympics site then blow it up...Only concern is that would cause massive retailiation

[Mebert 5]

Cool. Two legitimate countries at war, and for once, we're not a part of it. I'm almost looking forward to this, except for that whole "innocent people dying for somebody else's political ambitions" thing.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: SimFox

But I think Americans are quite shocked by the whole thing...  quote>

I think that average American is taken aback and puzzled.   form_s mentioned ethnic cleansing, which seems to be a phrase that means "we don't want to kill you; we would rather you go away but we will kill you if you don't".    The concept of having a 1-to-1 correspondence between ethnic groups and governments makes no sense to most Americans because most of us are of mixed ethnic background.

And that is very sad to see world falling into ever smaller pieces instead of coming together.quote>

I agree.

Soon every god forsaken willage will be demanding independence. In such a development there are always winners and loosers. Normally Winners are those who grab the power on their respective hill, and everybody else - regular people are loosers... quote>

A lot of innocent people are either losing their lives or having their lives totally disrupted.  and for what?  How are they benefiting from this?

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: SimFox

But I think Americans are quite shocked by the whole thing...  quote>

I think that average American is taken aback and puzzled.   form_s mentioned ethnic cleansing, which seems to be a phrase that means "we don't want to kill you; we would rather you go away but we will kill you if you don't".    The concept of having a 1-to-1 correspondence between ethnic groups and governments makes no sense to most Americans because most of us are of mixed ethnic background.quote>

Maybe I'm wrong, but I always took it to mean nothing more than the systematic annihilation of a group of people of X background living where you don't want them to.  Never associated it with giving them a choice of leaving to save their lives.

Soon every god forsaken willage will be demanding independence. In such a development there are always winners and loosers. Normally Winners are those who grab the power on their respective hill, and everybody else - regular people are loosers... quote>

A lot of innocent people are either losing their lives or having their lives totally disrupted.  and for what?  How are they benefiting from this?quote>

Depends.  If you want to be a part of Russia and not Georgia, this could be seen as being somewhat similar to the colonial fight for independence, only instead of being independent, they want to join the Russian nation.

A few years ago, I was listening to a History Channel documentary on the war on terror and the fairly unique role US special forces were playing in trying to gain the loyalty of local tribes.  The show had several retired special forces soldiers talking about the unique challenges of fighting a war in that region.  They all mentioned that tribal/ethnic tension is a constant issue that leaves many tribes perpetually on the brink of warfare.  "It wasn't uncommon to walk into a tribe and find that it hated this other tribe over here because one of them stole a goat from Grandpa over 30 years ago and the entire village has been enraged about it since."  (Not an exact quote, but reasonably close.)