Georgia and Russia basically at war

[Simfan34 11]

Russian tanks enter South Ossetia

Russian tanks head towards South Ossetia

Russian tanks have entered the capital of Georgia's separatist region of South Ossetia, says Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili.

Amid fierce fighting, Georgia has been trying to regain control of the breakaway province, which has had de facto independence since the 1990s.

Georgia is reported to have said any involvement of Russian forces in the conflict will result in a state of war.

Russia's president promised to defend Russian citizens in South Ossetia.

Moscow's defence ministry said more than 10 of its peacekeeping troops in South Ossetia had been killed and 30 wounded in the Georgian offensive. At least 15 civilians are also reported dead.

Russia said earlier it was sending reinforcements to support peacekeepers in the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali.

Reports from Georgia claim Russian jets have attacked an airport near the Georgian capital of Tbilisi.

Nato, the US and the EU have all called for an immediate end to hostilities.

I must protect the life and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are. We will not allow their deaths to go unpunished Dmitry Medvedev Russian President In pictures: Unrest in Georgia Bitterness turns to conflict

Georgia's president said 150 Russian tanks and other vehicles had entered South Ossetia.

He told CNN: "Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory."

Mr Saakashvili, who has called on reservists to sign up for duty, said: "This is a clear intrusion on another country's territory."

"We have Russian tanks on our territory, jets on our territory in broad daylight," Reuters new agency quoted him as saying.

"I must also tell you that Georgian forces have downed two Russian jet fighters over Georgia's territory."

Russia rejected claims its fighters had attacked Georgian targets and that any had been shot down.

The Russian defence ministry told Interfax news agency that reinforcements for Russian peacekeepers had been sent to South Ossetia "to help end bloodshed".

But Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said: "I must protect the life and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are," Interfax quoted him as saying. "We will not allow their deaths to go unpunished. Those responsible will receive a deserved punishment."

Residents of Tskhinvali were reported to have been sheltering in basements as massive explosions rocked the city. Georgian jets also targeted separatist positions. Both sides blamed each other for breaking an earlier ceasefire agreed on Thursday.

Georgian Foreign Minister Ekaterine Tkeshelashvili told the BBC the present situation was calm as Georgian troops were observing a unilateral ceasefire which started at 1100GMT.

She said they wanted to ensure that any civilians who wanted to leave the conflict zone could do so safely.

Russian troops

An amnesty has also been extended to any separatist fighters willing to lay down their arms, she said.

SOUTH OSSETIA TIMELINE 1991-92 S Ossetia fights war to break away from newly independent Georgia; Russia enforces truce 2004 Mikhail Saakashvili elected Georgian president, promising to recover lost territories 2006 S Ossetians vote for independence in unofficial referendum April 2008 Russia steps up ties with Abkhazia and South Ossetia July 2008 Russia admits flying jets over S Ossetia; Russia and Georgia accuse each other of military build-up 7 August 2008 After escalating Georgian-Ossetian clashes, sides agree to ceasefire 8 August 2008 Heavy fighting erupts overnight, Georgian forces close on Tskhinvali Send us your comments Q&A: Violence in South Ossetia

On reports of Russian forces moving into South Ossetia, she said the Russian Federation's efforts to get involved militarily had to be stopped.

International Red Cross spokeswoman Anna Nelson said they had received reports that hospitals in Tskhinvali were having trouble coping with the influx of casualties and ambulances were having trouble reaching the injured.

Irina Gagloyeva, a South Ossetian official in Tskhinvali, described the scene in the besieged city overnight after the Georgian military action started.

"Virtually all the people of the city are in shelters, myself included. It started at midnight, and has barely stopped for a minute," she told the BBC. "Can you hear? That's rockets. All my windows have blown out. Thirty-five thousand residents of our capital have become the hostages of Georgian fascism."

A spokesman for the Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia told Interfax news agency that Georgian shells directly hit barracks in Tskhinvali, killing several peacekeepers.

Georgian Prime Minister Lado Gurgenidze said Georgia had simply run out of patience with attacks by separatist militias in recent days and had had to move in to restore peace in South Ossetia.

"As soon as a durable peace takes hold we need to move forward with dialogue and peaceful negotiations," he told reporters.

Russian passports

Georgia accuses Russia of arming the separatists who have been trying to break away since the civil war in the 1990s. Moscow denies the claim.

Russia called an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council to respond to the crisis, but members failed to agree on a Russian statement calling on both sides to renounce the use of force.

The BBC's James Rodgers in Moscow says Russia has always said it supports the territorial integrity of Georgia but also that it would defend its citizens. Many South Ossetians hold Russian passports.

Hundreds of fighters from Russia and Georgia's other breakaway region of Abkhazia are reportedly heading to aid the separatist troops.

China, where the Olympic Games opens on Friday, called for worldwide truce during the sporting event. quote>

"From BBC News

EDIT: Can't belive the embed worked!

[Psycho_Teddy 25]

Well it would appear that Georgia is looking for a fight. And once again, the US is sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong...

[belfastuniguy 18]

EDIT: Can't belive the embed worked! quote>

Its the BBC, anything is possible, lol

I'm rather concerned by this, love how Russia is doing this while the world is watching the Olympics Games, rather devious of Russia. Then again I've learned to expect nothing less from Russia. Russia has not right whatsoever to send tanks in, Georgia is a potential NATO Member and Russia is clearly just attempting to provoke its members.

Well it would appear that Georgia is looking for a fight. And once again, the US is sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong...quote>

Did you actually read the story?? Russian tanks have entered a sovereign nation and the United States is not sticking its nose in......

[patriots_1228 51]

If America joins in on this and sends troops or somthing to russia, i am buying an igloo in northern canada and hiding until 2050.

[Simfan34 11]

Heavy fighting in South Ossetia

Night-time pictures of heavy shelling

Georgian forces and South Ossetian separatists have been exchanging heavy fire just hours after agreeing to a ceasefire and Russian-mediated talks.

Russian media reports said Georgia had launched a tank-led attack on the separatist stronghold of Tskhinvali, and airstrikes on rebel positions.

Georgia says it aims to finish "a criminal regime" and restore order.

At least 15 people are reported dead. Moscow called on the world community to work "to avert massive bloodshed".

At Russia's request, members of the UN Security Council are holding a rare emergency session to discuss a response to the escalating violence.

The BBC's Matthew Collin in Tbilisi says there has been a series of huge explosions and rocket fire in and around Tskhinvali.

Hundreds of fighters from Russia and Georgia's other breakaway region of Abkhazia are reportedly heading to aid the separatist troops.

'Perfidious step'

South Ossetian rebel leader Eduard Kokoity told Russia's Interfax news agency that Georgia had launched an all-out attack on the town of Tskhinvali, in what he called "a perfidious and base step".

SOUTH OSSETIA Population: About 70,000 Capital: Tskhinvali Major languages: Ossetian, Georgian, Russian Major religion: Orthodox Christianity Currency: Russian rouble, Georgian lari Caucasus on alert Clashes reignite war fears

The head of Georgian peacekeepers in South Ossetia said the operation was intended to "restore constitutional order" to the region.

The Georgian Minister for Integration, Temur Yakobashvili, said Georgia's aim was not to take over the territory but to finish "a criminal regime".

Days of fierce conflict have raised fears of a new war in the volatile Caucasus.

In a televised address, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili earlier called for the bloodshed to end, but also warned the Russian-backed separatists not to try Tbilisi's patience.

A truce was later announced, with emergency talks set for Friday, but by nightfall, both sides were trading heavy fire.

Georgia accuses Russia of arming the South Ossetian authorities - who have been trying to break away since the civil war in the 1990s. Moscow denies the claim.

President Saakashvili has vowed to restore Tbilisi's control over South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

The Ossetians have traditionally had good relations with Russia, and North Ossetia is part of the Russian Federation.

Russia is hostile to Georgia's ambition to join Nato and has accused Georgia of building up its forces around the breakaway regions, where Russian peacekeeping troops are deployed.

quote>

OUTDATED ARTICLE, SORRY

US warns Russia over Georgia row

Georgia and the US have accused Russia of stoking tensions in the region

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has warned Russia against stoking tension in Georgia's breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

Speaking in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, Ms Rice said Russia should help resolve tensions instead of contributing to them.

Six people have been killed in violence in the region in the past week.

Georgia and Russia have also accused each other of flying jets over South Ossetia, violating a ceasefire.

Russian and UN peacekeepers have been deployed in the region since the early 1990s, when violence erupted as separatists sought to break free from Georgian control.

Georgia accuses Russia of backing the separatists and seeking to absorb the territories.

Russia has accused Georgia of bringing the region to the brink of armed conflict, and of orchestrating violence in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

Russia says it just wants protect the interests of Russian citizens who make up the majority of the population in both regions.

'Territorial integrity'

Standing alongside Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, Ms Rice said: "It is very important that all parties reject violence as an option. There must be a peaceful solution.

"It is extremely important that the conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia be resolved on the basis of principles that respect that territorial integrity of Georgia," she added.

Tensions in South Ossetia and Abkhazia are higher than they have been for many months, says the BBC's Matthew Collin in Tbilisi.

On Wednesday, Georgia accused Russia of sending fighter jets into its airspace in South Ossetia in a bid to undermine it ahead of Ms Rice's visit.

However, Russia said Georgia violated a ceasefire when two of its jets flew over the region on the same day.

On Sunday, four people were killed when a bomb exploded in a cafe in Abkhazia.

Two people also died when rebels clashed with Georgian troops in South Ossetia last week. quote>

S Ossetia bitterness turns to conflict

By Steven Eke BBC News Russian affairs analyst

As heavy clashes are reported in South Ossetia, Russia and Georgia have swapped increasingly angry accusations.

Russia says it has played peace-keeper since the end of the civil war

Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili has called upon his country to "mobilise" in the face of "a very blunt Russian aggression".

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Moscow had reports of "ethnic cleansing" in villages.

Russian tanks have reportedly moved towards the capital of the region, which has been under heavy bombardment from Georgian forces.

South Ossetia is a territory one-and-a-half times that of Luxembourg, with an estimated population of some 70,000 people.

It is legally part of Georgia, since its self-proclaimed independence has been recognised by no other state, including Russia.

Yet its people and their separatist leaders do not want to be part of the Georgian state, in any shape or form.

They want either to attain international recognition as an independent state, or to be united with their ethnic kin living across the border in the Russian region of North Ossetia.

Russia asserts that its role since the end of the South Ossetian war in 1992 has been that of a peace-keeper.

Frozen conflict

However, it has supported the separatist regime financially and militarily, and reportedly has a considerable number of security and intelligence operatives there.

Georgia says it is merely defending itself from external enemies

Georgia also claims that Russian mercenaries are active in South Ossetia.

The "frozen" nature of the South Ossetian conflict - as well as that in the other, separatist Georgian region, Abkhazia - has allowed Russia to preserve a vital lever of influence over its southern neighbour, a country it now views as wayward, if not hostile.

There is, of course, an international peace process, but years of work have barely begun to bring Georgia and South Ossetia together. Their positions remain fundamentally irreconcilable.

There are also clear fault lines between Russia and the West in dealing with the immediate tensions.

A Russian-drafted UN Security Council statement calling on both Georgia and South Ossetia to renounce the use of force failed to secure British and US backing.

Russia has issued most South Ossetians with Russian passports, potentially justifying direct intervention (on the grounds of protecting "its own" citizens).

Recent heightened military tension had effectively given Russia a more solid pretext for intervention.

Military involvement may risk serious losses and international condemnation but the alternative of unilaterally recognising South Ossetian and Abkhaz independence could risk an even wider conflict.

Kosovo factor

Speaking on national Georgian television, Mr Saakashvili portrayed his actions as those of the leader of a democratic, freedom-loving nation defending itself from external enemies.

While he has many influential supporters in the West, there are also those who doubt his personal democratic credentials. Or suspect he may now be strongly overplaying his hand in a military adventure in South Ossetia.

SOUTH OSSETIA TIMELINE 1991-92 S Ossetia fights war to break away from newly independent Georgia; Russia enforces truce 2004 Mikhail Saakashvili elected Georgian president, promising to recover lost territories 2006 S Ossetians vote for independence in unofficial referendum April 2008 Russia steps up ties with Abkhazia and South Ossetia July 2008 Russia admits flying jets over S Ossetia; Russia and Georgia accuse each other of military build-up 7 August 2008 After escalating Georgian-Ossetian clashes, sides agree to ceasefire 8 August 2008 Heavy fighting erupts overnight, Georgian forces close on Tskhinvali

Certainly, Russia wants to stop Mikhael Saakashvili. It views him as an emotional and dangerous leader, destabilising an already restless region on Russia's southern flank.

Moreover, Moscow wants an end to Georgia's crawl towards Nato membership. Just recently, the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, in an extended essay on Russia's position in the world, insisted that Nato should be superseded as the pre-eminent guarantor of European security.

In this vein of anti-Western, anti-Nato suspicion, another school of thought in Russia believes that Mikhael Saakashvili is actually trying to drag Nato into intervention in his country's disputes with Moscow.

Mr Saakashvili has already tried to trumpet Nato membership as a fact - not a long-term prospect. So, for the time-being, it seems inconceivable that Nato would become involved in such a way.

The "Kosovo factor" also matters.

Even before the Serbian province unilaterally declared independence, there was a strong body of thought in the Russian political and diplomatic worlds, that believed Russian recognition of South Ossetian and Abkhaz independence would be morally and politically justified.

This has become much stronger since many Western countries ignored furious Russian objections and recognised Kosovo's independence.

quote>

I'm curious what our Russian friends have to say on this matter. What are your opinions on this issue? What are you hearing in Russia on this issue? What is the prevaling opinion with the public?

Likewise for any friends we'd have in Georgia (not sure).

[Shingure 56]

It seems like the world is going to end in 2011

Now Russia and Georgia is getting into it?

And for what?

Obviously I think Russia want's it's territories back.

That's what Iam beginning to think

Because when Kosovo declared independence.

Russia scrunced their nose at it.

They really didn't like it at all.

[Simfan34 11]

Originally posted by: patriots_1228 If America joins in on this and sends troops or somthing to russia, i am buying an igloo in northern canada and hiding until 2050.quote>

Originally posted by: Psycho_Teddy Well it would appear that Georgia is looking for a fight. And once again, the US is sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong...quote>

As much as he is portrayed in the common arena, the President or his associates are not dumb enough to confront Russia and risk WWIII.

The real issue though is Russia's aggression. RUSSIA has backed the rebels in both Abkhazia and South Ossetia. RUSSIA has violated Georgian territory by moving into the rebel held regions for unauthorised "peacekeeping" (i.e. taking care of the occupied areas so the rebels can move against Georgian forces. Now RUSSIAN tanks have invaded Georgian territory. The whole reason this is happening is that Russia does not want a NATO state on it's frontiers. Therefore they are trying to intimidate Georgia to stop.

[Psycho_Teddy 25]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

EDIT: Can't belive the embed worked! quote>

Well it would appear that Georgia is looking for a fight. And once again, the US is sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong...quote>

Did you actually read the story?? Russian tanks have entered a sovereign nation and the United States is not sticking its nose in......quote>

See above ^^

[Simfan34 11]

Sorry about that one article, it dates from 10 July, it was the second one listed, thought it was recent.

"Page last updated at 10:04 GMT, Thursday, 10 July 2008 11:04 UK"

Russian tanks enter South Ossetia to oust Georgian troops

Front page / Hotspots and Incidents / Conflicts

08.08.2008 Source: Pravda.Ru       rintopen('/print/hotspots/conflicts/106043-georgia_south_ossetia-0');">

Russian tanks have entered South Ossetia. A correspondent of Russia’s Channel 1 TV company said that South Ossetian troops had launched a counteroffensive and unblocked the Zarskaya road, which connects the republic with Russia. A column of Russian tanks is traveling on the road, the correspondent said.

	Russian tanks enter South Ossetia to oust Georgian troops
	BREAKING NEWS Georgia declares war on South Ossetia Explosions continue to terrorize Russia's Black Sea coast Prons and cons of vegetarianism
	Astonishing aircraft designs More...

Interfax news agency reported with reference to eye-witnesses that a Russian military column had entered South Ossetia.

In photos: War breaks out between Georgia and South Ossetia

The Zarskaya road, which encircles S.Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, has been cleared of Georgian troops, ITAR-TASS reports.

Russia's Defense Ministry says it has sent troops to back up peacekeepers deployed to the breakaway Georgian province of South Ossetia.

The ministry said in an official statement carried by Russian news wires that the troops will help protect Russian peacekeepers and local residents in South Ossetia. Most of South Ossetia's residents have Russian citizenship.

The ministry didn't say how many additional troops and weapons were sent.

Channel 1 television has shown a convoy of Russian tanks entering South Ossetia and says the tanks are expected to reach the provincial capital in a few hours.

Georgian officials have confirmed that the Russian convoy crossed the border and is advancing toward Tskhinvali.

An official spokesperson for the Russian Ground Troops said that the military command was awaiting politicians’ decision and therefore withheld comments. The official said that the Defense Ministry of Russia would release an official statement on the situation in South Ossetia within the next few hours.

In the meantime, Georgian troops continue to storm Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia. Several infantry companies have already entered the city and occupied several districts in it, Georgia’ Rustavi 2 TV company says.

The building of the university of South Ossetia has been engulfed in flames. The building is located some 500 meters far from peacemaking headquarters.

Speak the truth and shame the devil on Pravda.ru forum quote>

Now for the Russian Perspective... really biased

Ask anyone in the Caucasus region, and they will tell you never to trust a Georgian because they would shake your hand with a smile and then stab you in the back. On Friday morning, we saw a perfect example of this treachery, when hours after declaring a ceasefire, Georgian military units launched a savage attack on the civilians of South Ossetia.

	BREAKING NEWS Georgia declares war on South Ossetia Explosions continue to terrorize Russia's Black Sea coast Prons and cons of vegetarianism
	Astonishing aircraft designs More...

Hours after Georgia President Mikhail Saakashvili, the pro-western Washington-backed anti-democratic stooge (attacks on opposition policians in Georgia are rife) declared a unilateral ceasefire, the Georgian army lanched a savage attack on the capital of the province of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, with tanks and infantry, while the air force bombed a village and strafed a Russian humanitarian aid convoy.

According to South Ossetian government sources, there were many civilian casualties in the city of Tskhinvali, a large part of which was destroyed. The Parliament house has burned down and several buildings are on fire. Apart from this, Georgian Su-25 Frogfoot aircraft strafed civilians in the village of Kvernet and attacked a Russian humanitarian aid convoy.

Yet where is the criticism of the West against this blatant act of war crimes perpetrated by the criminal and murderous regime of failed lawyer Saakashvili? While the Russian Foreign Ministry has been issuing daily reports about the escalating tension in the area, and while Moscow has bent over backwards to find a peaceful and mutually acceptable solution, the Western media have consistently ignored the story while Georgia has consistently snubbed all efforts towards peace, while carrying out cowardly underhanded and treacherous attacks such as we have seen today.

Then when there is a retaliation, Tblisi goes whining like a cry-baby to the UN Security Council, playing the victim. The question remains, what is behind Tblisi’s policy? Is it the USA, launching a war by proxy against Russia, using its puppet in the area to start a full-scale confrontation? What does Washington hope to gain with such a policy? Is this Custer’s last stand, as the Bush-Cheney regime flushes down the sewer where it belongs, a last-gasp attempt at world domination by provoking the only country capable of standing up to Washington’s imperialist plans?

The position of the Russian Federation has been consistent, clear and as usual, by the book of diplomacy. Mocow has worked tirelessly behind the scenes, convening peace councils, trying to mediate between the two sides, always respecting both positions and constantly stressing the need to find a solution which satisfies Tblisi as well as Tskhinvali. The Foreign Ministry has been careful to inform all media outlets of what has been going on and of the growing escalation in the region.

It seems that nothing changes. The West remained silent, as if nothing was happening then when Georgia gets a hiding, suddenly become interested, but fail to report who started the conflict. It seems that nothing changes. Georgia declares a ceasefire one minute and within hours commits war crimes in savage attacks against civilians.

It seems that nothing changes. Georgia’s most infamous exports are its undrinkable wines and disgusting, low-quality dangerous food products while its most famous export was Josef Stalin. Maybe he should have stayed at home and concentrated more of his efforts there. quote>

Russian FM: Georgia’s treacherous attack

Front page / Russia / Politics

08.08.2008 Source:     rintopen('/print/russia/politics/106030-russianfmgeorgia-0');">

On the night of August 7-8, just several hours after the agreement had been reached to hold talks to settle the new round of the South Ossetia conflict Georgian military units undertook a treacherous, massive attack on Tskhinvali. A use-of-force scenario was resorted to by the Georgian leadership, despite all the diplomatic efforts that had been undertaken in contacts among Moscow, Tbilisi, Tskhinvali, Washington and other concerned capitals.

	BREAKING NEWS Georgia declares war on South Ossetia Explosions continue to terrorize Russia's Black Sea coast Prons and cons of vegetarianism
	Astonishing aircraft designs More...

The credibility of the Georgian leadership as a responsible participant of the negotiation process and of the international intercourse corresponding to the principles of the United Nations Charter in general has been completely undermined as a result. It has become absolutely understandable why during a long period Tbilisi had under various pretexts stubbornly avoided concluding legally binding agreements with South Ossetia and Abkhazia on the nonuse of force.

It is still not too late to prevent massive bloodshed and new casualties, including those among the civilian population. We are also highly concerned about the Russian peacekeepers’ fate.

The Georgian leadership should think better of it and return to civilized methods of solving the complicated issues of political settlement. We also expect that our foreign partners and the international community as a whole will not remain indifferent at this difficult moment when the destinies of the hundreds of thousands of people living in this region are being decided. It is necessary to jointly stop violence that is fraught with the gravest consequences for regional and international security.

The Russian Federation will continue its efforts directed at preventing any further bloodshed quote>

[underwearman2007 0]

i got $30 on russia to win

[belfastuniguy 18]

The real issue though is Russia's aggression. RUSSIA has backed the rebels in both Abkhazia and South Ossetia. RUSSIA has violated Georgian territory by moving into the rebel held regions for unauthorised "peacekeeping" (i.e. taking care of the occupied areas so the rebels can move against Georgian forces. Now RUSSIAN tanks have invaded Georgian territory. The whole reason this is happening is that Russia does not want a NATO state on it's frontiers. Therefore they are trying to intimidate Georgia to stop.quote>

Exactly, Russia is trying to play at being a superpower and bullying it neighbour's through various means ranging from force to restriction of energy.

i got $30 on russia to winquote>

Somehow I don't think that Europe, Georgia or the United States will allow Russia to just invade an independent nation without any due cause, simply to steal land. Which is what this amounts to

[Simcitymaster13 27]

I really USA does not take part in this conflict it would be a total waste of time, money, and lifes

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Simfan34 11]

THE US WILL NOT GET MILITARILY INVOLVED. This is not anywhere near the U.S., the United States would not be dumb enough to start WWIII.

Thank god Georgia is not a NATO member (yet?)

Barbarossa: Yeah, Georgia is clearly the wronged party here. Prehaps if NATO and the EU stand with Georgia, Russia will back down.

[Psycho_Teddy 25]

Originally posted by: Simfan34 THE US WILL NOT GET MILITARILY INVOLVED. This is not anywhere near the U.S.quote>

So, Iraq and Afghanistan are closer?

[Jasoncw 11,949]

The US has a history of sending troops places to protect our interests. Russia is not doing the right thing, and we shouldn't just ignore it, but we shouldn't be too indignant about it. We can't be on our tenth wife, and go crashing in announcing that divorce is evil and all measures must be taken to counteract it.

[Shingure 56]

Originally posted by: Simfan34 THE US WILL NOT GET MILITARILY INVOLVED. This is not anywhere near the U.S., the United States would not be dumb enough to start WWIII.

Thank god Georgia is not a NATO member (yet?)

Barbarossa: Yeah, Georgia is clearly the wronged party here. Prehaps if NATO and the EU stand with Georgia, Russia will back down.quote>

 

That's what we initially thought about Iraq...What happened then.We showed up there ...

The US has historically been the world's police.

I would be lauded that they won't show up

However since the world's eyes is on China 

It seems like it will be one of those things

That are too unimportant to occupy the minds of people

Even though this may have nothing to do with the Olympics

Isn't it ironic that since the games are about togetherness..That a battle is going on with these two countries and it happened to begin within 48 hours of the opening ceremony. 

Something tells me that Russia is up to something...And what does Medvedev think he is doing?

[belfastuniguy 18]

Isn't it ironic that since the games are about togetherness..That a battle is going on with these two countries and it happened to begin within 48 hours of the opening ceremony.

Something tells me that Russia is up to something...And what does Medvedev think he is doing?quote>

Of course they are, they are using the games as cover for their invasion of Georgia.

[BurroDiablo 222]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

Isn't it ironic that since the games are about togetherness..That a battle is going on with these two countries and it happened to begin within 48 hours of the opening ceremony.

Something tells me that Russia is up to something...And what does Medvedev think he is doing?quote>

Of course they are, they are using the games as cover for their invasion of Georgia.quote>

Given what China has done these past few months, I wouldn't say the games are as popular as they usually are. If Russia is using the Olympics to sheild themselves then its a very poor strategy. If you ask me, Russia is just looking to assert itself in the region like it used to do in its 'glory' days... I mean, the Parade in Red Square in May, the tackling of everyday freedoms and now this? The power, the nationalism, the glory... all that has gone and Russia is starting to miss it.

[Simfan34 11]

Originally posted by: El Burro

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

Isn't it ironic that since the games are about togetherness..That a battle is going on with these two countries and it happened to begin within 48 hours of the opening ceremony.

Something tells me that Russia is up to something...And what does Medvedev think he is doing?quote>

Of course they are, they are using the games as cover for their invasion of Georgia.quote>

Given what China has done these past few months, I wouldn't say the games are as popular as they usually are. If Russia is using the Olympics to sheild themselves then its a very poor strategy. If you ask me, Russia is just looking to assert itself in the region like it used to do in its 'glory' days... I mean, the Parade in Red Square in May, the tackling of everyday freedoms and now this? The power, the nationalism, the glory... all that has gone and Russia is starting to miss it.quote>

Exactly.

[Simfan34 11]

ussian tanks have entered Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia, says Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili.

Georgia has been fighting separatists with ties to Russia in order to regain control of the province, which has had de facto independence since the 1990s.

Georgia is reported to have said any involvement of Russian forces in the conflict will result in a state of war.

Amid international calls for restraint, Russia's president promised to defend Russian citizens in South Ossetia.

Moscow's defence ministry said more than 10 of its peacekeeping troops in South Ossetia had been killed and 30 wounded in the Georgian offensive. At least 15 civilians are also reported dead.

Reservists

Georgia's president said 150 Russian tanks and other vehicles had entered South Ossetia.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili says he is willing to agree an immediate ceasefire

He told CNN: "Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory."

Mr Saakashvili, who has called on reservists to sign up for duty, said: "This is a clear intrusion on another country's territory.

"We have Russian tanks on our territory, jets on our territory in broad daylight," Reuters new agency quoted him as saying."

He also said Georgian forces had shot down two Russian jets on Georgian territory, although Russia denied any of its fighters had entered its neighbour's airspace.

Moscow's defence ministry said reinforcements for Russian peacekeepers had been sent to South Ossetia "to help end bloodshed".

I must protect the life and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are. We will not allow their deaths to go unpunished Dmitry Medvedev Russian President In pictures: Unrest in Georgia Bitterness turns to conflict

Amid reports of Russian deaths, President Dmitry Medvedev said: "I must protect the life and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are," Interfax news agency reported.

"We will not allow their deaths to go unpunished. Those responsible will receive a deserved punishment."

'Ethnic cleansing'

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Moscow was receiving reports that villages in South Ossetia were being ethnically cleansed.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov

Mr Lavrov added in televised remarks: "The number of refugees is growing. A humanitarian crisis is looming."

Russia said it would cut all air links with Georgia from midnight on Friday.

Meanwhile Interfax quoted South Ossetian rebel leader Eduard Kokoity as saying there were "hundreds of dead civilians" in the region's capital, Tskhinvali.

Georgian jets have been targeting separatist positions. Both sides blamed each other for breaking an earlier ceasefire agreed on Thursday.

US President George W Bush spoke with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin about the crisis while they attended the Beijing Olympics.

[Aontan 0]

Now, here's what I'm not 100% sure about: do the South Ossetians want independence; or to join Russia as a province; or to join North Ossetia in Russia as a province; or to join North Ossetia as an indepentent nation of Ossetia? Surely the 70,000 people in the area are split themselves on the issue.

Either way, Moscow should not get involved in the way it has - though I don't think anyone is particularly surprised. Especially low to do it today; but again, I doubt anyone is shocked over that either - they've basically been planning it since April. It's obviously a way to get back at the Georgian government's aim of NATO membership and closer ties to the EU.

[BurroDiablo 222]

Originally posted by: Aontant's obviously a way to get back at the Georgian government's aim of NATO membership and closer ties to the EU.quote>

Not to mention leaving the CIS Defence council in order to do that...

[belfastuniguy 18]

Given what China has done these past few months, I wouldn't say the games are as popular as they usually are. If Russia is using the Olympics to sheild themselves then its a very poor strategy. If you ask me.quote>

I meant sending in tanks as billions watch the opening ceremony. Yeah the game may have attracted more negative but everyone knows that China will have and indeed has planned an absolutely stunning ceremony, people are watching it. Most will not be aware of this until the news starts later this evening (in Europe at least).

[sim-fan192 4]

If the USA gets involved America air base used in the shock and awe mission in bagdad would rip apart South Ossetia plus Iraq and Afghantan are just a few hundred miles from Gorgia which is where a fair number of troops are so America is in a perfect place if we get involved. However Russia has become an 'ally' of the US in the 29 years since the Cold War ended so things will get very interesting and I think NATO will join in if confrontation speads. Infact this is simailer to how the Cold War started and if anyone here has played World In Conflict it will be simailer to that if thing get bad. We went to the brink of WW3 with Russia back then and just becuase we didn't then doesn't we won't now. Very unfortunate, very unfortunate indeed. P.S. I am American

[Odainsaker 2,137]

Hmmm, and how much oil reserves are in the Caucauses?

As for Europe, Putin needs only to twist the stoppers on the Russian gas pipelines to put Europe in its place, and as Europe knows it already, it won't be necessary to actually do any twisting. So long as European leaders don't do anything concrete, they'll be allowed to merely make noise, which can easily be deflected within Russia's controlled media as arrogant Western hypocrisy.  Today, the Restoration of the Evil Empire begins.

As for America...well, Bush is in Beijing now being physically hussled into his correctly choreographed standing place by Chinese officials while the press corps gets locked in their plane and shut out of the buildings. But I'm sure he'll have closed-door discussions on the matter, where he'll get lectured about Iraq, Iran, Israel, Kosovo...

The U.N. Security Concil will meet, everyone will veto each other, and then they will merely count the days until the issue becomes old news and is out of sight. Georgia, where?! Oh well, it's not as if the Russian tanks are rolling through Atlanta and shelling the CNN Center.

Smart connected Georgians with any tie to the current establishment should be fleeing with their passports, visas, and available cash onto the grounds of any nearby Western embassy or consulate for asylum. London is much cozier than the Lubyanka.

[sim-fan192 4]

hopefully this end up it might just be a minor power struggle adn will end soon

[Aontan 0]

Originally posted by: sim-fan192 However Russia has become an 'ally' of the US in the 29 years since the Cold War ended so things will get very interesting and I think NATO will join in if confrontation speads. quote>

 

The Cold War was still ongoing in 1979.

[Haljackey 17,398]

When I was watching the Opening Ceremonies in Beijing this morning, Putin was shown when the Russian team entered the Stadium. The commenters (Canadian) stated that Putin said, when he arrived in Beijing, that "Russia will intervene, no matter what it takes".

Despite this, the Russian Federation received on of the largest applauses during the Parade of Nations. The Georgian team also received a positive applause.

[belfastuniguy 18]

As for Europe, Putin needs only to twist the stoppers on the Russian gas pipelines to put Europe in its place, and as Europe knows it already, it won't be necessary to actually do any twisting. So long as European leaders don't do anything concrete, they'll be allowed to merely make noise, which can easily be deflected within Russia's controlled media as arrogant Western hypocrisy. Today, the Restoration of the Evil Empire begins.quote>

Yes and no. Russia does have control over some of gas pipelines coming into Europe, but Russia is well aware that should it do such things the consequences would be incredibly damaging for Russia.

Russia is not just present in South Ossetia, the BBC reporters in Georgia have spoken of Russian bombers that have flown into Georgia proper and started bombing Georgian military bases and communications. Now....if a foreign military comes into your country and its airforce starts bombing your military and that's not seen as an act of war, then I have no idea would constitute it.