Uncontacted Amazonian Tribe Photographed

[bixel 1,228]

A special group of Cultural Activists and Preservists will have to be created in conjunction with some other groups like Human Rights Watch and perhaps Peace Corps. 'Civilized' Nations have so much history of 'botched' jobs dealing with indigenous peoples and separate cultures its just ridiculous, for once I'd like to see this done humanely and as quietly as possible, I truely believe cultures, languages and customs can be preserved and cherished without it being just delegated to a textbook and some National Geographic photos. I am not curious about this, I am serious about it.

I hate to see this in ten years become a 50 page book in annals of history as some kind culturally exploited footnote.

[belfastuniguy 18]

By protecting them we use resources and money to protect a small tribe that we wouldn't have cared about anyways if we didn't meet them. What difference would it make then? Why can't we use those resources to help starving kids in Africa that might not even have a slight chance of survival?quote>

Oh please......spare me!!

The resources required to protect a tribe like this would not be that great, we're not calling for a massive electric fence with guards patrolling the area. Simple monitoring can be performed by drones and any threat communicated to the local authorities or government, which ever applies.

Taking some steps as to not interfere with them? It seems you're saying like we can't help accidentally bumping into undiscovered tribes and trying to impose our Western ways on them. Are you saying putting restrictions on them such as stopping illegal logging?quote>

Yeah because CLEARLY if a couple of people 'bump' into them they shall immediately demand a democratic style of governance with free enterprise and full ranging civil rights. Don't be so ridiculous!!

By monitoring and protecting in a non-obstructive way how exactly do we impose Western values on them?

[City2TheMax 3]

Yeah because CLEARLY if a couple of people 'bump' into them they shall immediately demand a democratic style of governance with free enterprise and full ranging civil rights. Don't be so ridiculous!!

By monitoring and protecting in a non-obstructive way how exactly do we impose Western values on them?quote>

Ever heard of the USA? I have to agree with bixel, the Western world has this history of messing things up BAD when it comes to other cultures. The question here is WHY should we protect them? What good will it do us? Let nature take its course. Like I've said several times, everyone will die eventually.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Ever heard of the USA?quote>

Yeah I have funnily enough...

Some people encountering the tribe is not the same as another country and its army encountering them.

No one is saying that nature will not be allowed to take its course, they can be monitored and if they start to die out then fine. What others have been saying is that we should protect them if they are directed threatened with immediate extinction from outsiders such as illegal loggers or others.

[City2TheMax 3]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

Ever heard of the USA?quote>

Yeah I have funnily enough...

Some people encountering the tribe is not the same as another country and its army encountering them.

No one is saying that nature will not be allowed to take its course, they can be monitored and if they start to die out then fine. What others have been saying is that we should protect them if they are directed threatened with immediate extinction from outsiders such as illegal loggers or others.quote>

I think that instead of just cutting off the top of the weed (protecting the tribe from illegal loggers), we should destroy the root (the actual illegal logging). Now I know that it's not easily possible. But if we only cut off the top of the weed it will keep growing back. That's why I see it as pointless and a waste of time to protect that small tribe.

[xmike1991 2]

anyone have any clue what would happen when these people see others? Ive been wondering that for a while, i know some kind of hostility would be involved.

[mightygoose 92]

xmike well im guessing more arrows....

at everyone please lets not send this thread into america bashing spam, try to remain calm and reasoned with your responses.

the clearest possible way forward is to set up some UN sanctions on the interaction with technologically unaware unmodernised societies, so that there are clear guidelines on the sanctions available necessary to preserve the isolation and culture of the unmodernised society while also recognising and catering for the economic needs of the modernised society that the unmodernised society resides within.

however in this case they are worrying about logging, which is harming the environment as it is so i would have no qualms in just making them and the surrounding 25 miles a no fly no go zone. not even photographers or researchers,

leave these people be.

[Callbat 8]

What were stating in our opinions is that they are humans and regardless whether they have made contact with us in any way or whether they contribute to our goals they deserve to continue living the way they were before they were discovered and in order to achieve this the deforestation of their native lands must be prevented.

If everyone just looked out for themselves this would be a very bleak planet.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: City2TheMax

Taking some steps as to not interfere with them? It seems you're saying like we can't help accidentally bumping into undiscovered tribes and trying to impose our Western ways on them. Are you saying putting restrictions on them such as stopping illegal logging?quote>

No, what we can't help is bumping into them if we do.  But let's try not to make a point of finding them and bumping into them.  On top of that, taking some steps so as not to interfere with them meant doing something about what other people are doing in the area, not this tribe.  So far as most any of us are probably concerned, the tribe can cut down as many trees as they want.  It's the people who are out there foresting in the area that I was referring to.

[sedimenjerry 1]

hopefully this tribe can stay alone in it's own world. history has shown us what terrible things have happened to native tribes that have been contacted by europeans/westerners. there's a possibility that that tribe may not have been exposed to the same diseases as the rest of the world. they might not even have HIV or AIDS there. i would hate for their culture to repeat the history of other tribes in the Americas.

[Theirishnintendonerd 13]

I wonder do they know about modren day stuff like computers

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Theirishnintendonerd

I wonder do they know about modren day stuff like computers quote>

It appears as though they don't know about modern day stuff like electricity.  or indoor plumbing. or, possibly, the wheel.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: Theirishnintendonerd I wonder do they know about modren day stuff like computers quote>

Of course they do.

See that white thing at the top, slightly left of centre? Older model MacBook.

See those bows they have? They won them on E-Bay.

[saltandsauce 0]

just leave them alone they clearly don't want us in their lives. Ever. do we HAVE to see them do they HAVE to see us? and do we have to export our "culture" of McDonalds and living on the cheap to every corner of the globe. they were happy until they saw us so don't ridicule them for being happy.

they have so far managed not to contact them for about 600 years so why is it now? if we just leave them alone how bloody hard is that? its not the M25 were talking here we don't have to "integrate" them into Brazilian society (by the way "integrate" basically means accept our culture or lump it)

[belfastuniguy 18]

just leave them alone they clearly don't want us in their lives. Ever. do we HAVE to see them do they HAVE to see us? and do we have to export our "culture" of McDonalds and living on the cheap to every corner of the globe. they were happy until they saw us so don't ridicule them for being happy.

they have so far managed not to contact them for about 600 years so why is it now? if we just leave them alone how bloody hard is that? its not the M25 were talking herequote>

I would LOVE for you to show me where in this thread any one stated we should export what you term our culture to these people? I believe themes of protection has been the dominate debate and not whether we should build a McDonalds......how absolutely absurd, you clearly have not read the replies in this thread properly and just decided to rant.

Also, my culture certainly does not involve eating McDonalds and living on 'the cheap' I'm sure others would agree with me. You seem to have misconceived idea of what culture actually is.

[patfirefghtr 160]

Originally posted by: City2TheMax

Very interesting story. Personally I don't believe we should feel obliged to protect them. I feel that whoever is stronger should be able to dominate. Besides, it would be pretty cool to make a "Truman show" from these "undiscovered" tribes. As long as they don't know we're here it shouldn't be a problem. As far as the illegal logging thing; if they die, so be it. The world is overpopulated anyways.quote>

WoW that by far is the most asinine thing I have ever heard of wow... City2themax think of it this way would you like a camera shoved up your posterior rear end? No I don't think so at all...  What if I said hey all lets watch CitytotheMax and see how he does? Ohh wait if he dies its OK I didn't do a thing to save his life, whoops sorry I guess we have a enough medicine to use elsewhere now....

Honestly why would you let anyone die if you could do something to save their life and their culture?? I know I would do something if I could cause I care about everything...  I am not attacking you in anyway at all just simply saying as an example how bad it sounds that you wouldn't want to save someone you do not know...

I dunno maybe its just me being in the medical field and I guess I just have a biiiiig heart and I care... I know I would want to see these people protected from the outside world...  I don't think we need to shove camera's up their rear ends at all and watch their every move neither... What I do know is that while we do have the ability's to do stuff with observations and medical care that this tribe can benefit from, should we interfere at all? 

No I don't think so, here's why they have survived on their own for who knows how long and they seem to be doing a good job it...  We do however have to protect them from the illegal logging that threatens them and now would be adventures who want to meet a civilization that is diffrent...

I find one comment in particular rather disturbing is that the Western world has interfered with tribes and cultures and screwed things up in the first place...  If that is referring to America then umm think again it wasn't us who came here to North America all them years ago it was many nations and cultures that have came here to settle these lands...  

By doing that it was introduced to the Native Americans all the disease possible that was never ever before seen by them and killed them off pretty harsh... A common cold was something that the native Americans never knew of, nor was the flu...

What should be said instead of America is that everyone at some point in time has had their hand in the destruction of a culture....  That is what is needed now with this culture is to protect them from being destroyed, that is what I am saying here... Yes I did read the whole thread here before I said anything

[City2TheMax 3]

Originally posted by: patfirefghtr

WoW that by far is the most asinine thing I have ever heard of wow... City2themax think of it this way would you like a camera shoved up your posterior rear end? No I don't think so at all...  What if I said hey all lets watch CitytotheMax and see how he does? Ohh wait if he dies its OK I didn't do a thing to save his life, whoops sorry I guess we have a enough medicine to use elsewhere now.... quote>

You're right, I can be described as a heartless bastard. Do I care? No. What I'm trying to say (and in other posts) is that as long as they don't know about us where's the harm?

Honestly why would you let anyone die if you could do something to save their life and their culture?? I know I would do something if I could cause I care about everything...  I am not attacking you in anyway at all just simply saying as an example how bad it sounds that you wouldn't want to save someone you do not know...quote>

We can't save everyone in the world. And like I already said, we didn't care until we accidentally bumped into them. Why is it so important to save lives anyways? I am talking from a Christian standpoint here. Everyone has to die in some way or another. It is what you do with the time you have that matters.

I dunno maybe its just me being in the medical field and I guess I just have a biiiiig heart and I care... I know I would want to see these people protected from the outside world...  I don't think we need to shove camera's up their rear ends at all and watch their every move neither... What I do know is that while we do have the ability's to do stuff with observations and medical care that this tribe can benefit from, should we interfere at all?quote>

I apologize if the whole camera thing came off as a bit strong. But think about it, what are we doing in Africa? We film starving children and tribes without giving them anything. Did you know that only a small percentage of what we donate to Africa actually reaches these people? We say we're all good and everything and we take pictures of it all but they don't get squat. Why would it be SO different in South America?

No I don't think so, here's why they have survived on their own for who knows how long and they seem to be doing a good job it...  We do however have to protect them from the illegal logging that threatens them and now would be adventures who want to meet a civilization that is diffrent...quote>

Again I ask why? Why do we HAVE to protect them?

I find one comment in particular rather disturbing is that the Western world has interfered with tribes and cultures and screwed things up in the first place...  If that is referring to America then umm think again it wasn't us who came here to North America all them years ago it was many nations and cultures that have came here to settle these lands...  quote>

It doesn't matter what happened then, it's now that matters. America has created an identity of really screwing things up when it comes to other cultures in so many different ways. Want an example? Iraq.

By doing that it was introduced to the Native Americans all the disease possible that was never ever before seen by them and killed them off pretty harsh... A common cold was something that the native Americans never knew of, nor was the flu...quote>

And the same could happen when we meet those "undiscovered" tribes.

What should be said instead of America is that everyone at some point in time has had their hand in the destruction of a culture....  That is what is needed now with this culture is to protect them from being destroyed, that is what I am saying here... Yes I did read the whole thread here before I said anything quote>

As I have already stated, nature should take its course, and part of nature is the dominance of Civilization. I took my history course. We can't possibly strive to protect the world from harm, it's not possible. Why even try to make a difference about something that we didn't care about in the first place?

I probably repeated myself unnecessarily in this post, and am through arguing. This is my stance on the issue, and that's just how it is.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: patfirefghtr

WoW that by far is the most asinine thing I have ever heard of wow... City2themax think of it this way would you like a camera shoved up your posterior rear end? No I don't think so at all...  What if I said hey all lets watch CitytotheMax and see how he does? Ohh wait if he dies its OK I didn't do a thing to save his life, whoops sorry I guess we have a enough medicine to use elsewhere now.... quote>

Okay, let's not talk about shoving anything up anyone's posterior rear end. 

(Actually, using cameras in that way does have a valid medical purpose.  It's called a colonoscopy but that's totally beside the point at hand.)

What I do know is that while we do have the ability's to do stuff with observations and medical care that this tribe can benefit from, should we interfere at all? quote>

Yes, that is the point at hand.  There are pros and cons to all sides of this issue.

We do however have to protect them from the illegal logging that threatens them and now would be adventures who want to meet a civilization that is diffrent... quote>

I agree.   Illegal logging (or other similar activities) shouldn't be allowed to totally destroy anyone's inhabitant.    We protect the burping toad and the spotted squeaky owl (or whatever those species are).  Why shouldn't we protect endangered people?

As for the would be adventurers . . . I know of no culture that enjoys being a museum specimen.  People like to go about their lives without being gawked at, no matter where they live.

I find one comment in particular rather disturbing is that the Western world has interfered with tribes and cultures and screwed things up in the first place...  If that is referring to America then umm think again it wasn't us who came here to North America all them years ago it was many nations and cultures that have came here to settle these lands...  quote>

To be more specific, many nations and cultures came to many different lands and disrupted the lives of many indigenous peoples.  Ask the aborigines in Australia or the various tribes in South Africa or the Aztecs and Incas in South America.    The world has a long history of "civilized" people stamped out less "civilized" people.

Anyone stop to think that, just maybe, we might be able to learn something from these less "civilized" people?   Maybe it's in our best interest not to wipe them out.

The obvious example here is medicinal plants.  A very large percentage of the medicinal plants in the world are in the Brazilian rain forest.  It is not unreasonable to think that they might know how to cure disease we can't.  (Before you laugh too hard, remember that aspirin is created from the active ingredient in willow bark.)

By doing that it was introduced to the Native Americans all the disease possible that was never ever before seen by them and killed them off pretty harsh... A common cold was something that the native Americans never knew of, nor was the flu...quote>

or smallpox.  That was the biggie that got most of them.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: City2TheMax

. . .

You're right, I can be described as a heartless bastard. Do I care? No. 

. . .

Why is it so important to save lives anyways? I am talking from a Christian standpoint here. quote>

 

    So . . . what is this?  Some new hate-filled version of Christianity, not the "they will know we are Christians by our love" version of my childhood?

I can't even begin to explain that one. 

We can't possibly strive to protect the world from harm, it's not possible. quote>

As the saying goes, just because the world is doomed, that's no reason not to have a meaningful life.

Why even try to make a difference about something that we didn't care about in the first place? quote>

Some of us actually care about our fellow human beings.

. . .and am through arguing. This is my stance on the issue, and that's just how it is.quote>

No one is insisting that you argue.  

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Ever heard of Ishi?  A fascinating man, and a fascinating life. quote>

Interesting link, Barbarossa. 

Thanks!

[mightygoose 92]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: City2TheMax

. . .

You're right, I can be described as a heartless bastard. Do I care? No. 

. . .

Why is it so important to save lives anyways? I am talking from a Christian standpoint here. quote>

      So . . . what is this?  Some new hate-filled version of Christianity, not the "they will know we are Christians by our love" version of my childhood?quote>

its a common mistake some christians make, instead of i do the right thing therefore i am a good christian, some believe that because they are a "good" christian everything they do is right.

however i apologies as im straying dangerously close to off topic.

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Ever heard of Ishi?  A fascinating man, and a fascinating life. quote>

Interesting link, Barbarossa. 

Thanks!quote>

[Voar Tok 4]

OK, I'm going to throw out a new topic line for this thread since we've pretty much all repeated each other by this point.

I don't suggest that we actually do it, but one of the mixed feelings I have on this is that, if there was a way to do it completely unobtrusively without freaking them out or anything, I'd like to find out how technologically advanced they are. The reason is this - it appears that groups of people who are isolated from others entirely tend to have a way of building up the technology that they need to survive, and then technological progress slows (usually in civilizations where everyone practices subsistence survival). These people seem to have knowledge of basic tools and weapons, like how to make thatched roofs and bows and arrows. The funny thing is, that if there was ever a technological point at which I'd expect an isolated civilization to get up to, this would be about it. What would be interesting to see is if there's any truth to that observation, and if so, why.

[your_adress_here 11]

Anyone have more popcorn? I'm already all out.

[City2TheMax 3]

Originally posted by: mightygoose

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: City2TheMax

. . .

You're right, I can be described as a heartless bastard. Do I care? No. 

. . .

Why is it so important to save lives anyways? I am talking from a Christian standpoint here. quote>

      So . . . what is this?  Some new hate-filled version of Christianity, not the "they will know we are Christians by our love" version of my childhood?quote>

its a common mistake some christians make, instead of i do the right thing therefore i am a good christian, some believe that because they are a "good" christian everything they do is right.

however i apologies as im straying dangerously close to off topic.

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Ever heard of Ishi?  A fascinating man, and a fascinating life. quote>

Interesting link, Barbarossa. 

Thanks!quote>

that really is fascinating.

anyway i dont have anything further to contribute as we seem to be repeating each other at the minute.

quote>

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: mightygoose

its a common mistake some christians make, instead of i do the right thing therefore i am a good christian, some believe that because they are a "good" christian everything they do is right. quote>

Thank you, mightygoose.   Duke had a cartoon about this, as I recall.  but that's over in the House of Worship thread where it belongs.

however i apologies as im straying dangerously close to off topic.quote>

An excellent point.  Let's get back on topic.

Has anyone heard who has "authority" over this group?  I imagine the Brazilian government, or some piece of the Brazilian government.  or maybe Peru since they are near/on the border.

Bixel mentioned:

A special group of Cultural Activists and Preservists will have to be created in conjunction with some other groups like Human Rights Watch and perhaps Peace Corpquote>

Is anyone talking about getting those groups together and addressing this issue?  or are we still at the "gosh, golly, look at that" stage?     Has anyone seen a follow-up article?

[SimRabbit 48]

Amazing. I wonder what that black thing standing is? could it be a gorilla?

Are they trying to shoot at the helicopter/airplane?

I want to know more on this.

We are like UFOs to them.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: City2TheMax

I don't suggest that we actually do it, but one of the mixed feelings I have on this is that, if there was a way to do it completely unobtrusively without freaking them out or anything, I'd like to find out how technologically advanced they are. The reason is this - it appears that groups of people who are isolated from others entirely tend to have a way of building up the technology that they need to survive, and then technological progress slows (usually in civilizations where everyone practices subsistence survival). These people seem to have knowledge of basic tools and weapons, like how to make thatched roofs and bows and arrows. The funny thing is, that if there was ever a technological point at which I'd expect an isolated civilization to get up to, this would be about it. What would be interesting to see is if there's any truth to that observation, and if so, why.quote>

This is the exact same point people got so furious at me earlier for. And I totally agree with you.quote>

No, it's not even close.  People got furious for the idea of not doing anything and just letting them die off if some group of renegades decided that they were going to do something about getting rid of this group.  Mine was purely of scientific interest, and I wasn't even advocating that we do that - just a curiosity.

[hamsterTK 93]

I would just put yourself if their shoes. What would you want? I'd like to be left alone and make my own choices.

I actually think maybe we should "make contact"(as we sort of already did...) and then just leave them alone, making that land their official territory.

[City2TheMax 3]

Originally posted by: Voar Tok

Originally posted by: City2TheMax

I don't suggest that we actually do it, but one of the mixed feelings I have on this is that, if there was a way to do it completely unobtrusively without freaking them out or anything, I'd like to find out how technologically advanced they are. The reason is this - it appears that groups of people who are isolated from others entirely tend to have a way of building up the technology that they need to survive, and then technological progress slows (usually in civilizations where everyone practices subsistence survival). These people seem to have knowledge of basic tools and weapons, like how to make thatched roofs and bows and arrows. The funny thing is, that if there was ever a technological point at which I'd expect an isolated civilization to get up to, this would be about it. What would be interesting to see is if there's any truth to that observation, and if so, why.quote>

This is the exact same point people got so furious at me earlier for. And I totally agree with you.quote>

No, it's not even close.  People got furious for the idea of not doing anything and just letting them die off if some group of renegades decided that they were going to do something about getting rid of this group.  Mine was purely of scientific interest, and I wasn't even advocating that we do that - just a curiosity.quote>

People were saying it'd be horrible to be followed around by cameras and stuff. I was saying we should be able to observe them without interfering. That was my point.

Please, let's just move on. We all got our points across. I think we can agree that debating this is, in the end, pointless, because whatever happens, happens. And I don't want to make any enemies over some comment I made.

[Bumdark 3]

If I can squeeze in a word (I know I did but I didn't have time to share my full views then)...

First of all, we shouldn't interfere with them. I'm saying this, NIETHER to help, NOR to oppress in any way, and in both cases, neither directly, nor indirectly. I think that we should literally all leave them alone, try to let them forget about that big flying apparition they witnessed, and let them continue their lives as though we were never there to begin with.

Now of course, this is quite simply impossible. Our civilization - I'm not talking about any which country or culture, but rather as an agglomerate of all countries and cultures - is, whether we deny it or not, the greatest thing on the planet. (NOTE - I mean "greatest" as in the sense "great = big", not "great = good", just so I don't confuse anyone.) Hell, we've got roughly every square inch of the planet covered by satellites at any which time. Our subs and ships make absolutely nowhere innaccessible, and our planes allow us to far outstrip anything the Human Body was concieved to be able to do by Nature, such as fly and survey everything from up high.

The point of the whole preceding paragraph, is that if we can do all this, then there's no way in hell these people and we aren't gonna bump directly into each other sometime soon. So, in my mind this brings up what will inevitably happen, and what we should prepare for: First Contact.

I'm talking about, when the time inevitably comes to meet them formally and officially (kinda like the Europeans met the Indians in the 1500s), how should it be carried off? Who should open communication first? And how? Now this is something I'd never risk myself in explaining or describing, as I really rather am terrible at this sort of thing, so I'll leave it to experts. My point just is, WE ARE GOING TO BUMP INTO EACH OTHER OFFICIALLY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, ONE DAY OR ANOTHER. It's not like we can hide forever, or hide them from us without them knowing.

Another subject... Continuing from the above stance of not interfering with them in any way (either oppressing them or saving them), let me clarify myself so people don't start warring me as they have with City2TheMax (call me a coward, but I hate confrontations, even virtual.)

When I mean "not saving them" (or whichever variant I used above), I didn't mean, say, if some lunatic government or something decides, "They're squatting our land! Let's get rid of them!" In which case, we should do anything to stop a genocide. Those suck. I meant (and I think, so didCity2TheMax), saving them from anything that WE didn't bring up - illness, famine, natural disasters, etc. That's my stance, and I believe it to be firm.

I'm a very, VERY firm believer of Darwin's Natural Selection. Survival of the fittest. Now, don't misunderstand me here, I don't mean it as in "we're stronger, so let's fight them and win". Far, very far from it. I mean, to put it as simply as humanly possible...

What will happen, will happen.

We can't stop it. If destiny and / or fate (yes, I do believe in such things) decides that they're to be wiped out for whatever reason, who are we to battle said decision? If their time has come, it would be, in my views, parallel to trying to save the life of a terminal cancer patient. It can't be done, and the more we fight it, the more pain we cause ourselves AND those we try to save fruitlessly.

(Of course, even if we don't stop it, I sure as hell ain't saying we should agree with it, or even worse, accelerate the process... Just not get in its way.)

That's about as clear as I can express myself here. I hope some people mirror my views... Oddly enough, the more people we try to save as a civilization, the more we end up hurting... That's just how it is, and we'd be blind fools to deny it. Sorry, that's how it is.

In the end, to conclude it all in a few short words... "You can't save them all".