What do you think about Germany?

[AndreNolde 0]

What do you think about Germany?

[City2TheMax 3]

*****?

Personally I love it. I am 15 years old and lived there for 12 years (before moving to NC). In terms of architecture and city planning it has its flaws (I lived in the East), but it works out. Like most of Europe, larger roads could be used. The ghettos should be ripped down, if only the government funded that project more. They have tried it, but our city didn't have enough money to rip it all down.

[your_adress_here 11]

Good sausages.

[Alexzero77 3]

Originally posted by: City2TheMax *****?

Personally I love it. I am 15 years old and lived there for 12 years (before moving to NC). In terms of architecture and city planning it has its flaws (I lived in the East), but it works out. Like most of Europe, larger roads could be used. The ghettos should be ripped down, if only the government funded that project more. They have tried it, but our city didn't have enough money to rip it all down.quote>

You're too young to understand these political matters. Germany is full of poverty ever since WWI. It takes years and jobs to remove that.

If you're talking about cities along the old border, usually the East prospered their as the West didn't want to get involved. Germany and Japan and both great countries but sadly imperialised by the U.S.

[binobi 2]

how patronising do you wanna be alexzero77!?!

city2themax merely gave his opinion based on real life experience, i don't believe age has any bearing on this!

on a lighter note, i think germany is an incredible country, the bits i have been to anyway, near the rhine valley and down in the south near switzerland. a stark contrast to over here in the uk, despite us having common ancestors.

[Patricius Maximus 236]

Humbug. You assume competence based on an arbitrary age. Everyone is different, Alexzero77. Some young people know nothing of politics, some are very involved. Just like adults.

Germany, like any other nations, has it's flaws, but it is getting better.

[City2TheMax 3]

Originally posted by: Alexzero77

Originally posted by: City2TheMax *****?

Personally I love it. I am 15 years old and lived there for 12 years (before moving to NC). In terms of architecture and city planning it has its flaws (I lived in the East), but it works out. Like most of Europe, larger roads could be used. The ghettos should be ripped down, if only the government funded that project more. They have tried it, but our city didn't have enough money to rip it all down.quote>

You're too young to understand these political matters. Germany is full of poverty ever since WWI. It takes years and jobs to remove that.

If you're talking about cities along the old border, usually the East prospered their as the West didn't want to get involved. Germany and Japan and both great countries but sadly imperialised by the U.S.quote>

Why does age have anything to do with it? I know that it has been in poverty. Didn't I say that they need to rip down the ghettos? Where I grew up about 80,000 people left the city between 1990 and 2005, leaving many Plattenbauen abandoned. The city is in a major money crisis, as they say, but somehow seem to have the money to renovate the entire marketplace. Tourism has begun to be emphasized in the city, and they have been inviting American businesses such as Dell and Wal Mart to set up hubs and provide jobs for the approx. 5000 people living on the sucky social welfare system. However Wal Mart left after a year because of the socialist-based economy.

You're right, it needs time and jobs to remove that. But Germany has been working hard on fixing that, and has come quite a way since WWII. If you look at Berlin post-war and today you can see the huge differences.

[Jasoncw 11,839]

Geeze, you guys are too picky, Germany is a great country, and Berlin is great as well.

[sunrise7 0]

is a country with dishonest and evil media.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: Patricius Maximus Humbug. You assume competence based on an arbitrary age. Everyone is different, Alexzero77. Some young people know nothing of politics, some are very involved. Just like adults.

Germany, like any other nations, has it's flaws, but it is getting better.quote>

"Some arbitrary age"? If you are young, you will need something more than personal experiences. Germany itself is a relatively young state. The state of which it is comprised of, didn't become very old. The politics, relations, and history of Germany is more complex than most other nations.

Although "poverty" is very relative in Europe (being below the EU poverty line doesn't necessarily mean you're poor), Germany sure has had its share of problems since the 80's. A highly regulated economy and welfare system makes it hard to turn around when changes happen, but when they finally do, they're often coming out on top. Despite this, you'll find many poor cities in Germany, even though much of society is doing fine (e.g. Berlin, which is "arm, aber sexy" according to its mayor).

[City2TheMax 3]

Originally posted by: sunrise7 is a country with dishonest and evil media.quote>

could you explain that further?

[Danlikebooks 6]

As said above, has good sausages.

[Glenni 1,444]

Nothing wrong with it, in fact i like it, been there once. It's not all too different from Norway so i thought it kinda remindsme of home. Sure Germany has some problems, but which country doesn't? After being in two rather large wars that had drained it for huge sums of money, i think it's doing pretty good now.

[ExiL3 10]

For a country that had such a dark background, I would say it being one of the most important peaceful and industrialized countries in the world today is quite impressive.

,BUT Frankfurt has a terrible airport! XD

edit, forgot to say they have great beer, only beaten by the Czech Repubulic

,take care

[GMT 389]

germany a young state? *****?

the oldest settlements are 700.000 years old, germany as a politicial thing existed already to roman times, definitely since 962 AD

over 1000 years is not exactly young, isn't it?

germany as in FRG could be considered a young state tho, being founded after WW2

apart from that, I hate germany. well, it has a lot of great things to offer, a rather solid social politics, but nevertheless I hate it.

Germany (politically) has a state of either re-inventing the wheel or blasting ahead pedal to the metal without a solid thinking of the results, especially when it comes to what the EU decides. (leading thus far that other european countries laugh at germany because they do it at a slower speed but therefore better reasoned, keeping them from suffering almost ridiculous setbacks germany and it's government had to go through lately.

It's kinda like Brussels as the EU government commands and germany immediately jumps up and run while other EU members take their time to prepare their steps.

but maybe I look at it from a negatively biased POV cuz I'm german and have to live with what our government screws up

[Naktis-diena 0]

Originally posted by: ExiL3 For a country that had such a dark background, I would say it being one of the most important peaceful and industrialized countries in the world today is quite impressive.

,BUT Frankfurt has a terrible airport! XD

edit, forgot to say they have great beer, only beaten by the Czech Repubulic

,take carequote>

Lithuanian beer is better than their.

[City2TheMax 3]

Originally posted by: GMT germany a young state? *****?

the oldest settlements are 700.000 years old, germany as a politicial thing existed already to roman times, definitely since 962 AD

over 1000 years is not exactly young, isn't it?

germany as in FRG could be considered a young state tho, being founded after WW2quote>

I think they're saying that the new, modern, and progressive state of Germany is young. If I calculated it right it's been 19 years since the wall fell, which I believe marks the newest form of Germany.

[toxicpiano 125]

it's cool

[GMT 389]

but eastern germany, politically, was never accepted as a sovereign state by western germany, and even the constitution considered germany as united, even tho it's been a couple of decades untill it finally was united.

[VIPStephan 0]

OK, now you guys be prepared to get enlightened by someone who knows it:

What City2TheMax said is really superficial and really, he is a little too young to understand. First, there have been two different Germanies for 40 years and while they had a similar development in the first couple of years the different political and economical concepts resulted in different everyday life and different ways to (re)build the cities. I think nobody is denying that.

Now, as far as the east goes, the socialist ideology had equality as main principle, i. e. officially nobody was supposed to be better than the other, and therefore in most East German towns huge quarters of Plattenbau were built which were very modern at that time with warm water, central heating, and modern bathrooms in each apartment, etc. while many old buildings (which were often worn down and half destroyed due to the war) used to have one old toilet for more apartments in the staircase and oven heating.

The ideology changed from time to time and so did the city planning. Magdeburg, Dresden, or Chemnitz (named „Karl-Marx-Stadt“ from 1953–1990), for example, are towns where most of the old city center was destroyed and the GDR didn’t care to rebuild or even keep the old street system, they just tore everything down and rebuilt it completely new with Plattenbaus, not adhering to most of the old street structure or entire town structure. In the western part of Germany at that time, they often tried to rebuild most of the cities according to how they looked before, or at least, keeping the old feel and integrating new buildings within the town structure. On the other hand, there commercial interests were more important than political, and they often also removed some buildings in favor for new streets etc. but to me it feels like city planning was much more organic there. (OK, this can still just be a very superficial overview but it clarifies some things).

Now, one main difference between those two Germanies was that the west adopted much of the American lifestyle with everybody owning a car and stuff, and therefore West German cities were built to accomodate the increasing traffic, i. e. streets were widened, bypass roads were constructed, people moved to outside the town into single family homes (kinda like the suburbs in the U.S.) while in the east people had to wait approximately 12 years (!) for a new car because the planned economy wasn’t as flexible and living standard was a little more modest, and therefore there wasn’t so much traffic, people couldn’t just build a home wherever they wanted, they were glad to live in those modern prefabricated concrete slab apartments, and therefore the old streets from before the war could handle all the traffic and where old city structure was kept nothing was done to prepare streets for possible future mass traffic (because nobody expected it).

The old buildings that weren’t destroyed in the war and torn down afterwards in Eastern Germany were just left on their own resources, i. e. they were not modernized but left empty while in the west where commercial interests were stronger than government such buildings were either modernized but more often torn down and replaced with modern buildings (but integrated into the city structure). Halle (Saale) or Görlitz are such examples of an East German cities where much of the old core was still intact but heavily degenerated.

Now we come to the present: After the reunion western lifestyle found its way into the eastern part of Germany, everybody could afford/buy a car immediately, new low density residental zones (suburbs) emerged all over the place outside of cities, resulting in a lot of traffic in and out without the streets/towns being prepared to it (for which the west had 40 years while traffic was growing slowly). The old buildings that survived the socialist system were modernized and gleamed in new splendor. And that’s why people that didn’t move out of the town rather moved to these beautiful buildings, causing a degeneration of the huge Plattenbau quarters where only the not so wealthy people stayed (and new, poorer foreign immigrants moved in). That’s why those neighborhoods aren’t as attractive anymore (referred to as „ghetto“ by City2TheMax).

The difference between eastern and western German cities nowadays is mostly that eastern cities tend to have kept much more of their original beauty (now after the old beautiful buildings were modernized where they survived those 40 years) due to neglection during the socialism. Leipzig, Halle, Görlitz, Quedlinburg and others have so many beautiful neighborhoods (Dresden, too, a little outside of the center) that can barely be found in larger West German cities.

Cities like Cologne, Dortmund, or Bielefeld don’t have much of their original beauty (in fact, they aren’t really beautiful at all anymore) because economical development was quicker than preservation of (not so important) historical buildings. On the other hand, western cities don’t suffer from sudden suburbanization as eastern cities do, and therefore the outer edges of these cities are much more developed than those of the eastern cities with their Plattenbau buildings that are just left alone now. And just tearing them down isn’t as simple as one might think due to infrastructure issues etc. (too much maintenance costs for buildings that stay here and there).

Well, things are much more detailed than I could explain here but I felt like I have to clarify things a bit.

[City2TheMax 3]

Hey guys, let's just move on. I'm not gonna argue back about weather I'm too young to "understand" or not, so no need to argue about it. If you're gonna argue then PLEASE not right in my face.

Anyways, that was well put VIPStephan.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: GMT germany a young state? *****?

the oldest settlements are 700.000 years old, germany as a politicial thing existed already to roman times, definitely since 962 AD

over 1000 years is not exactly young, isn't it?quote>

Germany as Germany (the current republic) is young; however, I'm well aware of the German history. But the fact remains, that the FRG is a rather young state, especially after absorbing the GDR. You point to the EU yourself, and modern day Germany can be seen as very European, both politically, demographically (which have shifted considerably the last thousand years), etc.

By the way, find comfort in the fact that Norway is even better at implementing EU directives—and we're not even proper members!

Originally posted by: City2TheMax Hey guys, let's just move on. I'm not gonna argue back about weather I'm too young to "understand" or not, so no need to argue about it. If you're gonna argue then PLEASE not right in my face.

Anyways, that was well put VIPStephan.quote>

I'm not trying to diminsh your experiences, just that age and parrot ownership might nuance the picture a bit.

[silvercanyon2000 0]

Germany, my home country, has some very nice landscape. But it has also some very ugly places. Especially in the eastern part where they are still (19 years after the fall of the wall, 18 years after reunification) are trying to undo 40 years of communist maintenance and city building concepts. Germany has the world's second largest highway network, only beaten by the U.S. with about 12,000 km I think. Though I think there is really need to extend the highway network, especially in metro areas. But I think like in most European cities there is a lack of space for 10- or 12-lane highways like in North America. The Germans I would consider as hard-working, punctual but also as demanding and therefore often impatient and unfriendly (except me of course ... haha). And that's why I often hate my fellow citizens ...

[City2TheMax 3]

Originally posted by: krbe

I'm not trying to diminsh your experiences, just that age and parrot ownership might nuance the picture a bit.quote>

Well what I am saying is what I know of it, both from research and personal experience. And you're right, age is certainly a factor in it. So let's just move on....

[Alexzero77 3]

They tore down the Palast. *****s.

[sedimenjerry 1]

are we talking about germans or the actual nation?

germany did not become Germany till about 1815 in order to replace the holy roman empire which was "not really holy, not really roman and not really an empire". Germany had never been able to unify as a strong state. there had been germania, frankish empire and the carolingian empire but these were not much of german controlled states. even with the german confederations, the germans were not at the fore front of the war. is was not till the german empire in ww1 that germans "had something they could be proud of." After being pushed around a lot, the germans were ready to fight. then of course I think we all know the remainder.

Current day germany is pretty sweet from what I've heard, I know of many germans and most of them are pretty honest. Technology is up there. The autobahn is probably the best thing there. I don't mean that because of no speed limits in most places but because of the technology used in maintaining such a system.

[mgrinshpon 1]

Originally posted by: sedimenjerry...The autobahn is probably the best thing there. I don't mean that because of no speed limits in most places but....quote>

Uh, what? The autobahn has more areas with speed limits than without. Not only that, but rush hour traffic in most of it is a nightmare.

Anyway, say anything bad about the germans and there's a nazi squad at your doorstep. Tread lightly, fellow Simtropians.

[Fresh Prince of Wmbg 44]

I think Germany  ( thoughtout the ages) has to be one of the most amired nation. Germany has long since be on the spotlight for trade( Hansetic League and EU) , education, arts( musicians and artists) ,politics ( Marxism and unforutnely Nazism)and regilion (Martin Luther's 95 Theses and Protestant Reformation) . It has gone though so many challanges and still offers the world more. The efforts of the industrious and hardworking German must to be amired.......

[tedhzeer 1]

everytime i hear the place Germany, what comes in my mind first is Adolf Hitler.

[ExiL3 10]

tedhzeer: what every german would tell you then is; Adolf Hitler was from Austria

- I personally understand what you mean though, and because of its past most germans are not proud of either their flag or their heritage. Atleast that was the vibe when I lived there 5 years ago. (Im Norwegian btw.)

EDIT: mgrinshpon: you're a bit over the line there don't you think?

"Anyway, say anything bad about the germans and there's a nazi squad at your doorstep. Tread lightly, fellow Simtropians."

take care,