Major Earthquake Rattles China

[confused04 14]

Just coming out of the USGS, a 7.5 earthquake rattled central China today roughly 900 miles west of Beijing. Nothing to report as it happened in the last hour. Just thought I'd post something while I'm up.

[Cornish terrorist 1]

Havent seen nothing on the news yet, has it hit a built up area?

[Cornish terrorist 1]

yeh i just switched on the news, it just says no casulties yet, some buildings in yunnan province have collapsed, and there may have been aftershocks. it seems at this time there is not much information. 

( sorry to double post i didnt think the first one worked) 

[Jetsurf2002 0]

damn... I can't believe another larger earthquake happened

[Boggy1 45]

A lot of school kids have been killed when two schools collapsed..estimates put at a possible 5000 dead.

[Meg 368]

From the Telegraph in UK

China earthquake death toll over 7,600

[TRNSTN 0]

A powerful earthquake has killed at least 8,500 people in China's south-western Sichuan province, up to 5,000 of them in just one county. quote>

Here's the story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7396400.stm

[belfastuniguy 18]

A terrible event indeed, the numbers of dead is constantly rising, very tragic.

I have to congratulate the response of the Chinese government though, they immediately sent in search and rescue teams in a far cry from their Burmese neighbour. That will hopefully help with limiting deaths.

[SimFox 804]

It a horrendous disaster, but it shows new China quite well.

It may come as a surprise to many in the west, but China today is a very efficient, capable state with huge resources. It isn't brutal oppressive dictatorship portrayed in western media. Nowadays government is very much concerned about public opinion (domestic, not western one). Wen JiBao is on the plane to affected area in a matter on couple of hours. Army and search teams are deployed immediately.

Response times are model ones. Potential problem may still be long term assistance. But even that given break neck development all around the country will probably be relatively easily absorbed. Construction codes would definitely have to be rethought. Problem is that Sichuan is relatively poor part of the country, many were eager to economize on precautionary measures. Interesting to see how did forest of skyscrapers in nearby Chongqin had fared...

[patriots_1228 51]

7,000....so thats what *does math* 0.0005 % of Chinas population?

lets hope the deaths end there, and that Chinese FEMA is a bit more, inspired? than ours.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

With up to 80% of buildings collapsing in some areas, I'll bet they impose some new building codes. They are very very fortunate the Yangtze River dam held, or the death toll would have been into the hundreds of thousands or more. That particular dam (closest to the epicenter) has been the cause of concern in the past, as engineers have voiced fears that it may not have been built as well as it should have been. It holds back an enormous reservoir, and just the weight of the water behind it can cause its own seismic activity on occasion, according to an NPR report.

[raja_indy14 8]

i think the death toll is now estimated at over 10 000, although even numbers as high as 20 000 would be relatively low for china (where an earthquake claimed c 200 000 in the 70's). and this was a fairly remote, and relatively poor region of China, thankfully, so when 80% of structures have collapsed these may be largely simple dwellings and homes in rural areas; luckily it's also quite sparesely populated or the toll is sure to have been much higher. the numbers have, and will likely continue, to increase steadily as time goes on.

as others have said, it is heartening that the response has been much better than Burma's, they must certainly feel a little beset at the moment, what with the pressure of the olympics, international demonstrations, tibetan riots, and civilian unrest over high inflation and shortages - the communist party is certainly not in an enviable position right now...

[Cornish terrorist 1]

the death toll is expected to rise, all links including communications and roads have been severed to a region in the mountains and valleys where it said 210,000 people live.

[krbe 193]

Since the knowledge of this area is near nil for most of us, the New York Times has made a map of the area. So far provinical authorities puts the death toll at 12 000, with 18 000 unaccounted for plus an additional 2 300 missing from two factories and a school that collapsed.

[patriots_1228 51]

China has asked other nations for help, but where were they during hurricane katrina? the tsunamis? Pakistan earthquakes? (if they did give sizable aid to any of these disasters, please correct me).

Thank god, allah, buddah, whoever you thank, that that dam did not collapse.

[Hahayoudied 3]

I thought China doesn't need help when they have a HUGE army and a search and rescue team....

[un1 41]

This might be a very natural disater year...

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: patriots_1228 China has asked other nations for help, but where were they during hurricane katrina? the tsunamis? Pakistan earthquakes? (if they did give sizable aid to any of these disasters, please correct me).quote>

China has indeed contributed to all these disasters' relief efforts.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: patriots_1228 China has asked other nations for help, but where were they during hurricane katrina?

quote>

 

I think I speak for a majority of the American people when I say I wouldn't want their troops on the ground anywhere on US soil for any reason.  I found it insulting enough that the Mexican Army was brought in during Katrina, not because I dislike Mexico but because we're the friggin' US...We shouldn't need the assistance of an underdeveloped country in a time of disaster.

[coolotter88 2]

Of course they didn't have to help, but they'd just look like jerks then.

[raja_indy14 8]

well, that was somewhat politicized, for instance cuba and venezuela were some of the first countries to offer assistance to the US, and they were rebuffed, and China offered $5 million in aid, plus emergency supplies. for political reasons China will almost certainly provide significant assistance to Burma, and has provided assistance to Pakistan as well as the Tsunami disaster as krbe says - it fits into their overall plans to assume the 'big brother' role to the third world.

additionally, as far as i know, China has not asked for outside assistance, it has stated that it would accept any aid, and gave it's thanks.

Thank god, allah, buddah, whoever you thank, that that dam did not collapse.quote>

perhaps whoever engineered the dam? i'm sure it's designed to withstand large earthquakes (especially one so far away), they're hardly an uncommon occurance in China...

I think I speak for a majority of the American people when I say I wouldn't want their troops on the ground anywhere on US soil for any reason.quote>

that seems a little sinophobic, why on earth shouldn't such assistance from china be accepted?

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: raja_indy14that seems a little sinophobic, why on earth shouldn't such assistance from china be accepted?quote>

He spoke about military troops. Most countries are unwilling to have any other than their own on a day-to-day basis, thereafter allies and eventual friendly countries. Accepting foreing troops can create both legal problems and cause trouble in a relationship (like the rape cases from Japan), especially if their missions are conducted on an ad-hoc basis. That's why the American requests for help went to NATO and the EU (which for immediate response mean Canada, France and possibly the Netherlands). Though foreign troops on American soil is unavoidable (aid is usually distributed by the air force or navy, though their job is usually limited redistribute the food to local authorities), I think the problem was that Mexican troops did the job the national military / civilian defence teams usually do. While military experts, engineering and rescue teams often can be sent with aid relief, the security is the duty of the national military.

If you prefer the Alex Jones take on events, you can read about the Mexican invasion, which he specifically mentions is armed, for some reason...

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[belfastuniguy 18]

Chinese leader visits quake area

Hopes are fading of finding any more survivors under the rubble

Chinese President Hu Jintao has flown to south-western Sichuan Province, where it is feared up to 50,000 people may have died in Monday's earthquake.

So far, 22,069 deaths have been confirmed in the region and thousands more people remain missing.

Mr Hu said rescue work had entered its "most crucial phase", Xinhua news agency reported.

As the search for survivors continued intensively on Friday, four people were reportedly pulled out alive.

Four days after the quake, Chinese CCTV showed pictures of a five-year-old boy, looking weak and bruised, being taken from the rubble, bandaged and strapped to a stretcher.

We must make every effort, race against time and overcome all difficulties to achieve the final victory of the relief efforts President Hu Jintao In pictures: Quake recovery Dams pose flooding risk Life in tent city

Meanwhile, a 23-year-old nurse was rescued from the ruins of a hospital, and two survivors were found buried together beneath a collapsed office building in the shattered district of Beichuan, state news agency Xinhua reported.

And further aftershocks - one measuring 5.9 - continued to strike the area, causing landslides that buried vehicles and knocked out communications only just restored.

'Time is pressing'

The Chinese president's presence in the region appears to reflect the level of government concern over the scale

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

I think I speak for a majority of the American people when I say I wouldn't want their troops on the ground anywhere on US soil for any reason.  I found it insulting enough that the Mexican Army was brought in during Katrina, not because I dislike Mexico but because we're the friggin' US...We shouldn't need the assistance of an underdeveloped country in a time of disaster.quote>

It would have helped if some idiot hadn't sent the Louisiana National Guard overseas during hurricane season.  But that's a different topic. 

Getting back to the earthquake in China, the Chinese army seems to be doing all they can to help.  I saw one report where they were moving in supplies on foot for 25 miles because the roads were not passable.

The area that was damaged by this earthquake is massive, roughly the same area as the continental United States.    and questions are being asked as to why the government buildings are still standing but many of the schools are not.   I hope someone looks at the building codes.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Oh I think building codes will be looked at.

What plays on my mind is that if China was not hosting the Olympics would the response have been so quick in addition to the sending of the Prime Minister. I'm clearly cynical by my nature, so those views may be somewhat unfounded, but I think a degree of possibility exists.

Originally posted by: manticorefan

I think I speak for a majority of the American people when I say I wouldn't want their troops on the ground anywhere on US soil for any reason. I found it insulting enough that the Mexican Army was brought in during Katrina, not because I dislike Mexico but because we're the friggin' US...We shouldn't need the assistance of an underdeveloped country in a time of disaster.quote>

Yeah because the American government and agencies did such a good job in the beginning didn't they? In fact the people of New Orleans, those not rich enough to evacuate where left to rot in standards that would even shame a third world nation. Lets not get too sanctimonious shall we.

[toroca 162]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguyYeah because the American government and agencies did such a good job in the beginning didn't they? In fact the people of New Orleans, those not rich enough to evacuate where left to rot in standards that would even shame a third world nation. Lets not get too sanctimonious shall we. quote>

 

Let's get one thing straight.  The people who chose to go to the Superdome instead of leaving the city like they were told to do contributed to the conditions there.  They were TOLD to bring their own three day supplies of food and water, and almost NONE of them did.  That was a major part of the problem right there.  If you live in a hurricane zone, it is YOUR responsibility as much as the government's to make sure you're ready for one, and that includes having emergency supplies ready to go.  It's not like there was no warning that the storm was coming.  It's not an earthquake or tornado that can't be predicted before it happens.  They knew the storm was coming for DAYS, and many of them simply relied on the government to take care of them without bothering to take any responsibility for their own welfare.  I have very little sympathy for the people who either a) had the ability to leave and didn't, or b) stayed and didn't follow the instructions they were given.

Don't get me wrong, the government failed too, at the local, state, and federal levels, but ESPECIALLY the first two.  The local government, as one example, should have appropriated the fleets of school busses we later saw sitting in flooded parking lots and used those to get people without cars out of the threatened area.  The state government should have made the evacuation of New Orleans and surrounding areas a much higher priority than they did; the mandatory order wasn't issued until the day before the storm arrived.  And once that was issued, people shouldn't have been allowed to stay at the Superdome, they should have been sent OUT of the city altogether.

But blaming only the government, as so many people like to do, is not fair.  Most of the people who stayed in the city did NOT make any effort to take care of themselves.  They are therefore not worthy of my sympathy.

...and we've really wandered off topic now...

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: toroca

The local government, as one example, should have appropriated the fleets of school busses we later saw sitting in flooded parking lots and used those to get people without cars out of the threatened area.  The state government should have made the evacuation of New Orleans and surrounding areas a much higher priority than they did; the mandatory order wasn't issued until the day before the storm arrived.  And once that was issued, people shouldn't have been allowed to stay at the Superdome, they should have been sent OUT of the city altogether.

But blaming only the government, as so many people like to do, is not fair.  Most of the people who stayed in the city did NOT make any effort to take care of themselves.  They are therefore not worthy of my sympathy.quote>

I agree that those buses should have been used to take people out.  But to where?  That's what gets me about evacuation plans:  they tell large numbers of people to go from Point A to Point B with no provisions for what happens as Point B.

You know what the evacuation plan is for Washington, DC?   Everyone north of a certain street are supposed to go into Maryland and everyone south of that street are supposed to go into Virginia.   That's it.  Nothing about where or what they should do when they get there.  So half a million people are supposed to do what?  Some will find friends or relatives to stay with; others will find motel rooms but that leaves hundreds of thousands roaming the streets.

Contrast that to the unsung Canadians who stepped up to the plate on 9/11 with no notice.   Suddenly hundreds of airplanes landed at the nearest airport.  Many of the cross-Atlantic flights wound up in Newfoundland.  Yeah, the planes had to sit on the tarmac for a few hours while people figured out what to do with the passengers but they wound up in various schools throughout the province.  They more or less shut down the schools for several days so they could shelter the passengers who couldn't reach their destinations.   It wasn't any plan they had in place; it was one they came up with when it was needed.

...and we've really wandered off topic now...quote>

Definitely.   Let's get back to the earthquake in China.

I find it amazing that they are still pulling people out of the rubble alive.  It's been how many days?  Even if they were uninjured (which seems unlikely) you'd think that dehydration would be a major problem by now.

[thinboy66 6]

Originally posted by: patriots_1228 China has asked other nations for help, but where were they during hurricane katrina? the tsunamis? Pakistan earthquakes? (if they did give sizable aid to any of these disasters, please correct me).

Thank god, allah, buddah, whoever you thank, that that dam did not collapse.quote>

Even if China didn't help Hurricane Katrina in 2005, they still get help from other countries. Aid of natural disasters doesn't count as trade, it's how people want to help. Also, China donated so much money for the tsunami.

[jesusnavidad 0]

what so weird is that this month already around 178,000 people have died from natural disasters, 78,000 from the earthquake and around 100,000 from the Myanmar cyclone