Death Penalty UK

[jammy 0]

today in a popular UK newspaper 99% of voting readers said that they think the death penalty for severe crimes should be reintroduced into the UK

I myself agree with this because I think if you take somones life with no clear or meaningful reason then your rights and life should also be taken away.

another problem I would like to include in this Post is that the UK is losing some of its democratic features. For example our current prime minister, Gordan Brown wasn't even elected, something that has always been a democracy.

Please post here your thoughts .... 

ThAnKs 

[belfastuniguy 18]

What popular paper was this??

Was it a tabloid, it sure sounds like it...it's always a benefit to post a link to a story as well..

[Glenni 1,444]

Let me guess... Thedailymail? sheesh.. sure stinks like it...

[fukuda 351]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy Was it a tabloid, it sure sounds like it...it's always a benefit to post a link to a story as well..quote>

It is...

Link

btw, last time we discussed death penalty the thread turned into chaos, we should try to avoid it

[krbe 193]

Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.quote>

Originally posted by: fukuda

btw, last time we discussed death penalty the thread turned into chaos, we should try to avoid it quote>

Let's take on the papers instead. That's always funny.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Well the Sun is hardly the voice of the United Kingdom.....I detest tabloids...

I find myself split on the death penalty. I wouldn't like to see it, as it would return British Justice to the days or barbarism and cruel revenge. However British prison are incredibly easy on the prisoner with their t.v, gyms, games, art classes and everything else. Indeed British prisoners get more spent per head on their food than British school children. I would like to see prison become a much tougher place and less attractive. I'm clearly not advocating a return to Victorian style prisons but a lot of prison could be termed 'holiday camps' where criminal activity in drugs and god knows what else is prevalent

I would also like to see EVERYONE that murders be give life and nothing else, meaning they stay there till they die. I hate minimum sentences for murder and early release.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy I find myself split on the death penalty. I wouldn't like to see it, as it would return British Justice to the days or barbarism and cruel revenge. However British prison are incredibly easy on the prisoner with their t.v, gyms, games, art classes and everything else. Indeed British prisoners get more spent per head on their food than British school children. I would like to see prison become a much tougher place and less attractive. I'm clearly not advocating a return to Victorian style prisons but a lot of prison could be termed 'holiday camps' where criminal activity in drugs and god knows what else is prevalentquote>

I agree. We should make sure that criminals, especially those locked up for petty crimes leaves prison with a more damaged mind and harsh feelings towards society than they do today. And let everyone rot in prison instead of killing them, just to make sure we use a hell lot more money for prisons than necessary.

[jayo 44]

What a stupid idea

[S1acker 0]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy I would also like to see EVERYONE that murders be give life and nothing else, meaning they stay there till they die. I hate minimum sentences for murder and early release.quote>

Here, here.

 

I'm strongly against the death penalty, I believe it hurts the criminals family more than the criminal, once he's dead he's dead he can't suffer any more. And that's without even going into the issue of innocent people being accidently executed or the fact that executing someone (At least I believe this to be the case in America), costs millions once you take into account the endless appeals. I think life in prison is far worse than the death penalty, and I agree with Michael that life should mean life.

[toxicpiano 125]

Tabloids: don't believe anything they say.

[BurroDiablo 222]

'Da terristz nied hungd!'

...

Rotting in Prison is a more fitting and soul destroying punishment... although, I agree that the Prison system is, well, very soft on criminals these days. We should bring back hard labour... Prison is supposed to be a feared, horrible place... not a criminal Travelodge,

[belfastuniguy 18]

another problem I would like to include in this Post is that the UK is losing some of its democratic features. For example our current prime minister, Gordan Brown wasn't even elected, something that has always been a democracy.quote>

Just noticed this point.

Well firstly the UK does not need to elect Gordon Brown, it is not stated anywhere in our laws. He was elected by Labour Party Members.

What other democratic features are we losing?? Or maybe I should ask, what democratic rights are we losing according to the Sun??

[GingerBlokey 30]

Originally posted by: jammyToday in a popular UK newspaper 99% of voting readersquote>

of the Sun.

65% of the public as a whole believe in the death penalty.(Harris 2001).

I would imagine that if you surveyed one of the quality papers such as the Independent or Guardian you would find the figure to be much lower.

This is not how we think.

The British tabloids are the worst example of the media in the United Kingdom, I absolutly detest them and people that vote in these things are in no way representative of the UK's views.

__

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

another problem I would like to include in this Post is that the UK is losing some of its democratic features. For example our current prime minister, Gordan Brown wasn't even elected, something that has always been a democracy.quote>

Just noticed this point.

Well firstly the UK does not need to elect Gordon Brown, it is not stated anywhere in our laws. He was elected by Labour Party Members.

What other democratic features are we losing?? Or maybe I should ask, what democratic rights are we losing according to the Sun??quote>

We don't elect a prime minister in the United Kingdom we elect a party. In the US a president is elected as it is a presidential system. Here it is a Parliamentry system and we elect a Parliament. It is then up to the Parliament to let the leading party form a government and select a Prime Minister and the PM forms a Cabinet and then the civil service kicks into action.

Gordon Brown is as legitimate as any PM we've had.

Don't base your opinions on the Sun/Mirror/Star/Sport/Mail/Express

Please just pick up a copy of the Times/Independent/Guardian/Observer/FT/Telegraph and see what your'e missing in terms of quality news and debate.

Seriously.

[hamsterTK 93]

99% is truly an incredible figure lol!!!!

You can't convince me 99% of the public supports one particular side of any issue, much less one that is so incredibly divisive like capital punishment.

[GMT 389]

"british tabloid readers..."

I can remember a time when fairytales started with "american scientists reveal..."

and even longer before that, it's said there was a time when fairytales started with "once upon a time..."

[Micah 16]

That would be like a conservative magazine asking the question "Do you think a Republican should win the presidency for 2008?" and the results are 99% yes. The readers of this magazine may be tilted more towards capital punishment, so I wouldn't trust this poll as a concensus of what most people in the UK believe.

[krbe 193]

And it comes right after the conviction of a man who killed 5 prostitutes over a week or so--when someone calls you and says "when you think of the old, evil man who killed five young, innocent women in less than a week for no reason, do you think the death penalty should be reinstated" or "do he deserve the death penalty", you know many are going to say yes. I remember a debate program on television some time after the 11^th September: "Are radical Muslim a threath to Norwegian soverginity/values/etc.?"--how are you supposed to answer "no" to such questions?

[Duke87 1,070]

^True. It is a rather loaded question when you phrase it that way.

Still, whether or not it's proper to have a death penalty is a very common debate over which there are some pretty compelling points on both sides.

Obviously, if you have the death penalty you run the risk of executing an innocent man- and then you also have to ask the question of whether it's really moral for the government to execute people or whether that makes them no better than common murderers. I would generally say "no, it's very immoral".

But if you don't have the death penalty, then you lose a powerful deterrent since if you've already committed a crime for which you're basically guaranteed life, you have absolutely nothing to lose by doing absolutely anything to evade capture, like shooting at police. And you also then have to spend an awful lot of money towards those people's prison sentences- which is, by the way, taxpayer money. This is the issue my dad would raise. He doesn't want his tax dollars going to pay for nasty criminals to "continue sucking oxygen" (those are the exact words he'd use). He basically likens someone getting the death penalty to society "voting them off the island", deciding they don't want to deal with them anymore.

My solution to the prisons cost money issue is to bring back prison labor and chain gangs. Make them do something useful as opposed to just sitting on their asses and "sucking oxygen", so they actually are "paying their debt to society", not having society pay debt to them.

But within reason, of course. Don't make them work more than eight hours a day, don't make them work in unsafe and/or unsanitary conditions, don't make them work if they're not physically healthy enough to do so, don't beat or abuse them, etc.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: Duke87 ^True. It is a rather loaded question when you phrase it that way.

 He basically likens someone getting the death penalty to society "voting them off the island", deciding they don't want to deal with them anymore.

quote>

 

If we called it that, it would definitely get more support!

It's a non-story in a way, it would fall under 'Lies, damn lies, and statistics'. That much is pretty obvious to everyone here.

 My home state of Illinois imposed a CP moratorium on the grounds that an awful lot of death-row inmates were being cleared by DNA. As a supporter of CP, I think they did the right thing. The state needs to be absolutely sure before throwing the switch (now an archaic term). 

You do the best you can, but the numbers of wrongfully convicted men were truly scary, and exposed many flaws in our legal system. It did kind of shut down those who wanted to speed up and streamline the process, they needed to be reminded that the accused's many rights were there for a reason. To try and undermine those for expediency just got innocent men executed.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Duke87

My solution to the prisons cost money issue is to bring back prison labor and chain gangs. Make them do something useful as opposed to just sitting on their asses and "sucking oxygen", so they actually are "paying their debt to society", not having society pay debt to them.

But within reason, of course. Don't make them work more than eight hours a day, don't make them work in unsafe and/or unsanitary conditions, don't make them work if they're not physically healthy enough to do so, don't beat or abuse them, etc.quote>

On the other side, many prisoners consider prison work a wonderful thing; it gives them something to relieve the boredom that comes from sitting in a cell roughly 23 hours a day (minus food and hygiene purposes).  So a good number of prisoners would welcome your solution as making their prison life easier.

[krbe 193]

You mean people cannot/aren't supposed to work in prison today?

[hym 358]

If forced labor isn't part of your sentence, prison officials can't force you to work.  Doing so would result in the prison system passing judgment on the prisoner, which it isn't supposed to be doing.  If the judge sentences you to forced labor, prison officials then have every right to force you to work and are given a variety of options to persuade you to work if you're being less than willing about getting out there and doing the forced work.

However, judges have been less inclined to attach work requirements to prison terms, so forced labor is no longer an option.  This leaves inmates in their cells roughly 23 hours a day, often with insane boredom from having nothing to do.  Having a job would relieve the boredom, so prison officials decided to make work a privilege for those who behave and are otherwise being good inmates.  Those that have jobs become happy to have them, and in a few cases, actually become targets of jealousy by those who are kept locked up 23 hours a day with "nothing to do."

[patriots_1228 51]

I think the prison system is plenty harsh enough. You do know what they do to eachother there, right? ouch.....

[krbe 193]

From Norway I know that the largest prisons for short sentences/petty crimes (speeding, corruption, light violence sentences) (up to 1 year) requires you to work, while the large, long term institutions requires you to do something, either studying or work. As long as you're not deemed dangerous, that is. There is also the problem that some are sitting for months in jail before they are sentenced and hence are "outside" the system.

[belfastuniguy 18]

As far as I am aware UK Prison do not require you to work, at least apart from working the canteen, laundry and cleaning showers etc etc. Pretty much working and cleaning where you couldn't possibly send civilian workers given the possible danger.

I would love to see prisoners been forced to clean beaches, forests, roadsides etc etc. Though I don't think that would punish them enough. I have no idea how harsh prisons are in other parts of the world, but here in the UK they are no such thing. We have to respect their rights you see........total bull**** in my view. I am of a strong personal belief that id convicted if a crime some of your civic rights show be removed. I stress civic and not human rights. I also want to see a criminal lose civic rights when then commit a crime to prevent them pressing charges against their victims should they injure the criminal while defending themselves, their family or property.

We are FAR too soft in criminals in my view, its about time we increased the pressure on them.

[IDS2 3,344]

What  survey is this, certainly not prisoners themselves!

[patriots_1228 51]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy As far as I am aware UK Prison do not require you to work, at least apart from working the canteen, laundry and cleaning showers etc etc. Pretty much working and cleaning where you couldn't possibly send civilian workers given the possible danger.

I would love to see prisoners been forced to clean beaches, forests, roadsides etc etc. Though I don't think that would punish them enough. I have no idea how harsh prisons are in other parts of the world, but here in the UK they are no such thing. We have to respect their rights you see........total bull**** in my view. I am of a strong personal belief that id convicted if a crime some of your civic rights show be removed. I stress civic and not human rights. I also want to see a criminal lose civic rights when then commit a crime to prevent them pressing charges against their victims should they injure the criminal while defending themselves, their family or property.

We are FAR too soft in criminals in my view, its about time we increased the pressure on them.quote>

 

Jail is not about punishment anymore. Its about making criminals into better people capable of being a part of today's society. Unfortuantly, the way we try to do that sucks. "Dude, you just planted a tree! Congratulations! your murder has been forgiven! you are ready to go back out in the world. Promise you won't kill anyone?" "yea sure homes...." "Well thats just swell buddy! Have fun!". Next day he goes out and kills another person.

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

Killing them is too easy, make them suffer for live for what they did. Take away their T.Vs and make them sleep on the floor.

[belfastuniguy 18]

I'm sorry but trying to make rapists and serial murderers 'better people' is just laughable and a waste of my taxes. They don't deserve to be treated as pampered adults getting good food, art classes and language courses. They should be there to serve their time and just deal with the pain they have created.

No matter how hard you try some people just don't care and will continue to commit crime and inflict pain. Children can maybe helped, but I have no faith in adults being changed.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

I wouldn't call prison in the US 'easy', but it depends on where you go. Minimum security doesn't have bars, the Federal min-sec prisons are called Club Fed and Camp Country Club for a reason. These are for older white-collar criminals. The other end is the state penitentiary, where bad guys have to get stronger and more bad just to survive. To be a sex criminal in just about any state max-security prison is literally a fate worse than death.