American 2008 Election

[screamingman12 30]

Originally posted by: Duke87 .

Somehow I'd think that if he wins in November (if not before then), there will no doubt be an attempt to challenge of his eligibility in court.... though that may just be the cynic in me talking.quote>

That doesn't sound like something that would work. Remember, the Republicans still contol the courts, they aren't likely to bar one of their own from the presidency.

[patriots_1228 51]

Who changed the title to Obama Cannot be President. Thats just kind of immature.

o nevermind, my bad. Anyway, McCain should be okay since the Panama Canal was owned and operated by the US back then, right?

[Aontan 0]

Obama has won the (crucially important ) Guam nomination contest by just seven votes.

Indiana and North Carolina are up next; both states vote on Tuesday.

[hym 358]

We'll see how Indiana and North Carolina vote. Hillary doesn't seem to be making the 70% margin that it was said she needed to win in every remaining contest (Pennsylvania was one of the "remaining contests").

[belfastuniguy 18]

The pressing question, though, is whether being born in a US territory counts or whether it needs to be one of the 50 (or however many there were when you were born) states. The Panama Canal Zone never was a state, though it was a US territory from 1903 to 1979, meaning McCain would have been born on what was at the time US soil even if it isn't anymore.

Somehow I'd think that if he wins in November (if not before then), there will no doubt be an attempt to challenge of his eligibility in court.... though that may just be the cynic in me talking.quote>

Oh that's interesting...

Are the American media making much of this?? Or are they still not giving him much air time?

[Odainsaker 2,134]

It seems to really be an interesting non-issue. Most of us are familiar with automatic birthright citizenship to those born within the U.S. and its territories (even in some cases when the parents are not U.S. citizens), as that is how most of us have our citizenship. Less familiar, but fully legitmate, is automatic birthright citizenship to children when the parents are both U.S. citizens, even if those children are born outside U.S. territories. The complications arise when paternity is disputed or if one of the parents is not a U.S. citizen, dragging in legalese and politics-of-the-moment or feeding into the prejudices of the day, but none of that plays into McCain's case, as both his parents were U.S. citizens at the time of his birth.

The other usual form of citizenship is through "naturalization," which is the long-term process by which non-U.S. citizens apply for and eventually earn U.S. citizenship. The fees, requirements, and procedural system are set out by law given the politics-of-the-day (ie, English proficiency, U.S. political education, desireable skills, racial or regional quotas, wealth, etc.) Naturalized citizens cannot become President, as they obviously did not receive their citizenship automatically by birth. Unlike Schwarzenegger, McCain was never naturalized through this process.

When it comes to non-birthright citizenship by law, the government can generally establish whatever conditions it chooses, even simple decree or statute. The best example is the outcome of the Mexican-American War, in which Mexican citizens inhabiting Mexico's northern territories were simply declared U.S. citizens by law after America invaded and forcibly annexed those lands. Incidently, U.S. racial law at the time limited citizenship only to whites, leading the courts to deem that as the government recognizes such Mexican-Americans as citizens, it must also mean that Mexican-Americans must be recognized and classified as whites. Of course, such color-blinding never happened on the ground as racism remained the norm, but for legal purposes, those citizens whom today we would call Latino, Chicano, or Hispanic were technically considered "white."

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

Oh that's interesting...

Are the American media making much of this?? Or are they still not giving him much air time?quote>

No, it's not commonly mentioned.  Many people still don't know about it.

As far as I know, there are only two kinds of citizens:  "natural born" and "naturalized".  As Odainsaker pointed out, McCain was never naturalized since no one saw any need for it.   When US military personnel have children overseas, the children are generally considered to have dual citizenship, depending on the country.

I don't see how a court challenge could be successful but it could have ramifications for other children of US military personnel born overseas.  Since no one wants to deal with that issue, I wouldn't be surprised if this never got to court.   People would rather stick their heads in the sand.

[yoder7652 21]

stick a fork in Hillary....her ride is over....

[Micah 16]

... not until June.

[JackStraw 19]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

this whole stinking country of a place needs a good smack in the facequote>

Couldn't agree with you more.

I'm somewhat concerned by the whole religion thing in American politics. Why is it some important? You elected a deeply religious person last time and look at the bloody mess he's leaving.

I personally think politics works better without religion and I think America needs to learn this and not just vote for people that preach about God and pray constantly. Just because you like their faith does not in any way make them a better Presidential candidate. Having religion in politics is never good and will always influence decisions and policies.quote>

 

I wouldn't say George Bush is very religious, oh sure he said Jesus was his hero, and he pandered to the evagelicals....But once he got in office you didn't hear about his faith again until 04 when he was up for re-election.  Now for the past 4 years again his faith is absent.  He even went so far as to call the Constittution "a God-dammed piece of paper".  As a Christian, I consider the evangelicals my brothers and sisters, but it is sad how they were bamboozeled by Beezulbuub(sp?)... Bush... Yes I voted for him too,  but not because of his so called Christianity, but rather I voted along party lines.

By the way... It is a well known fact that Bush and your former PM Blair are both satanists.  Call me a crack pot,  but both of them, along with a whole bunch of other world leaders go around giving the devil horn sign just a little too much for my comfort level.

[JanYpe 17]

By the way... It is a well known fact that Bush and your former PM Blair are both satanists.  Call me a crack pot,  but both of them, along with a whole bunch of other world leaders go around giving the devil horn sign just a little too much for my comfort level.quote>

...indeed.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: CrazyFinger

By the way... It is a well known fact that Bush and your former PM Blair are both satanists.  Call me a crack pot,  but both of them, along with a whole bunch of other world leaders go around giving the devil horn sign just a little too much for my comfort level.quote>

OK, just so everyone knows (not that I'm trying to ease Bush's public image) but the devil horn salute you're talking about means something entirely different to Bush.  Bush is from Texas, and while this is rather misunderstood outside of Texas, inside the state, the devil horn salute is universally known as the "Hook Em Horns" sign because it is the hand sign of the University of Texas.  Last I remember him making that sign was after UT won the national title and their band marched in the inaugural parade.

Then there's the whole "rock on" part, but I don't need to explain that.

[krbe 193]

No! Don't destroy my delusion! Everybody knows that they drink the blood of children in the White House bowling alley every Thursday evening!

[yoder7652 21]

Originally posted by: Micah ... not until June.quote>

 

Maybe not officially until June, but its over....Hillary has no shot. She is even starting to see some of her committed superdelegates switch sides today. She needs to leave on a positive like winning the next couple of primaries, but it is no matter....the math doesn't work for her in any scenerio even with the inclusion of Michigan and Florida.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: CrazyFinger

 He even went so far as to call the Constittution "a God-dammed piece of paper". 

quote>

Guess he forgot about that part of his oath where he swore to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States".

There isn't a whole lot else in that oath.

[belfastuniguy 18]

I wouldn't say George Bush is very religiousquote>

Really??

oh sure he said Jesus was his hero, and he pandered to the evagelicals....But once he got in office you didn't hear about his faith again until 04 when he was up for re-electionquote>

Well if true, the fact that some people knew that and still voted for him is the perfect example if naiveness and blind stupidity of some of the American electorate. (note the word some)

Now for the past 4 years again his faith is absentquote>

His stance on pro-life and stem cell research shows a somewhat different picture. Maybe he is still pandering...though no election to fight...strange that

By the way... It is a well known fact that Bush and your former PM Blair are both satanists. Call me a crack pot, but both of them, along with a whole bunch of other world leaders go around giving the devil horn sign just a little too much for my comfort level.quote>

Won't even bother with that one..

[coolotter88 2]

I believe Hillary is done for, hasn't she canceled all her TV appearances and run out of funds?

[belfastuniguy 18]

I finally found the video I mentioned a long-time ago regarding Fox News. Was during the 2004 Presidential election, but still funny...

Click here 

[Bodhi83 0]

Originally posted by: CrazyFinger

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

He even went so far as to call the Constittution "a God-dammed piece of paper".  quote>

Please provide a substantial link to provide proof of this attempt at libel....

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Bodhi83

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

 He even went so far as to call the Constittution "a God-dammed piece of paper".  quote>

Please provide a substantial link to provide proof of this attempt at libel....quote>

Pick a link.  Any link.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: Bodhi83

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

 He even went so far as to call the Constittution "a God-dammed piece of paper".  quote>

Please provide a substantial link to provide proof of this attempt at libel....quote>

[belfastuniguy 18]

I didn't actually make that reference about the constitution, that was crazyfinger.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy I didn't actually make that reference about the constitution, that was crazyfinger. quote>

Nobody said you did, the quoting was just misdone. Look at how the quotes are nested:

(quote CrazyFinger)

    (quote belfastuniguy)

          (quote anonymous) {the comment}

          (close quote anonymous)

    {request for citation}

    {post editied info}

Note that the first two quotes are left unclosed (hence why they contain the post edited info and would contain his signature if he had one). That post looks like it's just him quoting CrazyFinger quoting you requesting a citation quoting the comment. So what looks like this:

Originally posted by: Bodhi83

Originally posted by: CrazyFinger

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

He even went so far as to call the Constittution "a God-dammed piece of paper".  quote>

Please provide a substantial link to provide proof of this attempt at libel....

Edited: 05/08/2008 at 12:52 AM by Bodhi83

quote>

quote>

quote>

should look like this, if it was done properly:

Originally posted by: Bodhi83

Originally posted by: CrazyFinger He even went so far as to call the Constittution "a God-dammed piece of paper".  quote>

Please provide a substantial link to provide proof of this attempt at libel....

Edited: 05/08/2008 at 12:52 AM by Bodhi83

quote>

There were just a couple extra quote headers in there for some reason.

[JackStraw 19]

Originally posted by: Voar Tok

Originally posted by: CrazyFinger

By the way... It is a well known fact that Bush and your former PM Blair are both satanists.  Call me a crack pot,  but both of them, along with a whole bunch of other world leaders go around giving the devil horn sign just a little too much for my comfort level.quote>

OK, just so everyone knows (not that I'm trying to ease Bush's public image) but the devil horn salute you're talking about means something entirely different to Bush.  Bush is from Texas, and while this is rather misunderstood outside of Texas, inside the state, the devil horn salute is universally known as the "Hook Em Horns" sign because it is the hand sign of the University of Texas.  Last I remember him making that sign was after UT won the national title and their band marched in the inaugural parade.

Then there's the whole "rock on" part, but I don't need to explain that. quote>

 

I guess all these people are UT fans too, huh?  And by the way, UT would  not accept Bush... Thats why he went to Yale.

Italian Prime Ministers routing for UT... Go Longhorns!!! OK

John Edwards really getting into that UT football game isnt he?

Here's Tom Ridge getting all up in arms over that gool ole school UT.

Bill Clinton, Yassar Arafat, Liz Taylor.... All UT fans.  Go Longhorns.

Bush is a Satanist, along with the rest of the World's Governmental, Cultural and Religious elite... 

[JanYpe 17]

Bush is a Satanist, along with the rest of the World's Governmental, Cultural and Religious elite... quote>

This is clearly the only logical conclusion here. =|

[Boggy1 45]

The conspiracy theory that all of these leaders are within a satanist cult is nothing short of absolutely ridiculous, and at best seems to be the product of a somewhat deranged or paranoid mind.

The gesture is a common greeting. Even I've used it. And of course, it also is a 'rock on' signage, as Voar mentioned, and also of course a sign associated with the Texas Longhorns.

[Meg 368]

Some of those people are saying "I love you" in American Sign Language.

[Boggy1 45]

SkiGeek: heh, I never knew there was an American version of sign language. I'm quite fluent in, I guess it would be called, British sign language; but yours is totally different

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Boggy1

SkiGeek: heh, I never knew there was an American version of sign language. I'm quite fluent in, I guess it would be called, British sign language; but yours is totally different quote>

I used to share an office with a deaf guy.  He claimed that he and a deaf French person could communicate better than I could with a French person.  (which is entirely true, considering how basic my French is.)

He told me all sorts of signs they don't teach you in class, including various ways to cuss, depending on how vehement and crude you feel like being.

I can communicate with any patient person who knows ASL.  But it has to be patient person because my ASL isn't that great, even though it's better than my French.  Oddly, when I was in Paris and was fumbling around trying to find the words, I noticed that I using ASL signs.  As if that was going to help. 

Edit:  Boggy, it is called British Sign Language and it is quite different.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Bush a satanist? LOL! Now I've heard it all. OK, I've actually heard that before.  'Well known fact', my aunt Fanny. Al Gore is supposed to secretly be a shamanist pagan, but there's no real evidence of that that I've seen, either.

Back on topic; I am still of the opinion that Obama cannot win in November, and I have seen very little to change that. A good thing, too, IMHO. 
As a born and bred Chicagoan, I would never ever put a Chicago politician in the White House. There has not been an honest pol from my hometown in 150 years. We've had more aldermen and congressmen go to prison than almost any other town in the US.  And they all preached 'Change! '
A product of the Cook County Democratic Committee is never going to be a trustworthy candidate for anything. Look at Mayor Daley! The Chicago Mob got its man on the Supreme Court in the '50s, and got his son into the US Attorney General post. Don't underestimate the reach of political corruption from the Cook County Dems. Trust me on this.