Kaine Cuts Funding for Abstinence-Only Sex-Ed

[screamingman12 30]

Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine has cut funding for Abstinence only sex-education programs across the state. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/12/AR2007111201716.html

Discuss...

[coolotter88 2]

abstinence is the best policy, especially when you abstain from voting.

[DuskTrooper 314]

From what I have seen, these Abstinence only sex ed programs FAIL HARD because they basically discuss NOTHING about the whole process. All they say is "don't do it". That's like giving someone a gun, who has absolutely no experience with it, and telling em "ok, don't shoot anyone". From my experience, they just gathered all of us in a room one day, and started telling us a bunch of stuff. Sure, there was some stuff taught in biology class, but they never really answered any of the REAL important questions.

And of course, perhaps the parents should be the ones responsible for teaching their kids about this stuff.

If they will continue, they should at least teach it from all points of view; from abstinence to "safer" methods of getting it on (although I do not personally agree with it, but hey, if someone's going to do it, they should at least take the measures that are out there to at least lower the risk of certain possibilities).

Furthermore, IMHO, they should also take a more pro onanism stance, as well. But that is another bone of contention.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: DuskTrooper

From what I have seen, these Abstinence only sex ed programs FAIL HARD because they basically discuss NOTHING about the whole process. All they say is "don't do it". That's like giving someone a gun, who has absolutely no experience with it, and telling em "ok, don't shoot anyone".  quote>

Good analogy, DT.

Personally, I believe that informed individuals make better decisions than non-informed individuals.  Ignorance rarely helps anyone.   If people chose abstinence over "safer sex practices", that's fine, but I believe that everyone old enough to have hit puberty should know what the safer sex practices are.   (and I also believe that gun owners should be educated in gun safety, that drivers should be educated in car and road safety, and so forth.)

Furthermore, IMHO, they should also take a more pro onanism stance, as well. But that is another bone of contention.quote>

Well, that doesn't work either.  That early drop has enough active sperm to cause pregnancy.

[DuskTrooper 314]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: DuskTrooper

From what I have seen, these Abstinence only sex ed programs FAIL HARD because they basically discuss NOTHING about the whole process. All they say is "don't do it". That's like giving someone a gun, who has absolutely no experience with it, and telling em "ok, don't shoot anyone".  quote>

Good analogy, DT.

Personally, I believe that informed individuals make better decisions than non-informed individuals.  Ignorance rarely helps anyone.   If people chose abstinence over "safer sex practices", that's fine, but I believe that everyone old enough to have hit puberty should know what the safer sex practices are.   (and I also believe that gun owners should be educated in gun safety, that drivers should be educated in car and road safety, and so forth.)

Furthermore, IMHO, they should also take a more pro onanism stance, as well. But that is another bone of contention.quote>

Well, that doesn't work either.  That early drop has enough active sperm to cause pregnancy.quote>

lol, I didn't mean "Coitus Interruptus"   I meant....Coitus Solo

And of course, that subject itself is open to misinterpretation, hence the erroneous name of "onanism" to refer to it.

[Zelgadis 638]

Hee hee. This is getting naughty already.

As for me, I'm in the "teach everything" camp. Well, everything within reason.

So, Gov. Kaine did a good thing.

ISF

[Garek Maxwell 1]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that the majority of the supporters for abstinence only programs are heavily right-wing Christians?

Shouldn't they of all people know that abstinence only doesn't work? You know, "Virgin" Mary and all?

[ephorex_77 0]

Originally posted by: Garek Maxwell Am I the only one who finds it funny that the majority of the supporters for abstinence only programs are heavily right-wing Christians?

Shouldn't they of all people know that abstinence only doesn't work? You know, "Virgin" Mary and all? quote>

 

You might want to be more respectful of one of the most revered religious figures in Catholicism there. 

I know it's not in the same league in terms of the reaction one gets (thanks to political correctness =.=) as bashing Muhhamed and Jews, but it's the same nontheless. 

[coolotter88 2]

yeah, cutting back on abstinence is alright I guess, I really only meant abstentions for voting. we can't all be 40-year-old virgins.

[panthersimcity4 162]

Originally posted by: Garek Maxwell Am I the only one who finds it funny that the majority of the supporters for abstinence only programs are heavily right-wing Christians?

Shouldn't they of all people know that abstinence only doesn't work? You know, "Virgin" Mary and all? quote>

Christians aren't the only people who believe that Mary's a virgin, so do Sunni and Shia Muslims. And besides, last time I checked it was Evangelicals make up the majority of Right-wing Christians... But thats off topic...

Anyways, They should just teach the students about safe sex... but honestly, I think if you want to have sex so bad as a teen, you might as well just, err.... do what most teens do, look at magazines...and...uh ....you get the point I honestly think sex with other people should be saved for when you're an adult.

[fukuda 351]

Teaching abstinence and not teaching safe sex is just criminal... They just endanger and/or spoil student's life for their religious puritanism...

[Garek Maxwell 1]

Originally posted by: ephorex_77 You might want to be more respectful of one of the most revered religious figures in Catholicism there.

I know it's not in the same league in terms of the reaction one gets (thanks to political correctness =.=) as bashing Muhhamed and Jews, but it's the same nontheless. quote>

OMG a Christian that points out a conflict of beliefs! I ist wrongz!

Seriously, it's fine to believe Mary is a virgin. I do. I'm a Christian. (Shocking, I know.) However, the majority of those who support abstinence only education are most often Christian, and their primary argument is that it's "100% safe". Mary is the poster child of abstinence only not being safe according to their own beliefs. Seriously, are they even thinking here?

Originally posted by: panthersimcity4

Christians aren't the only people who believe that Mary's a virgin, so do Sunni and Shia Muslims. And besides, last time I checked it was Evangelicals make up the majority of Right-wing Christians... But thats off topic...quote>

Er...Evangelicals are Christians... Just like Catholics are Christians. Why split up a blanket term only to create many exceptions? Just saying...

[Duke87 1,070]

Virginia, huh? Hmm... I wouldn't have expected this of a state with that much red in it, but hey, pleasant surprises happen.

Where I went to school (Connecticut), there never was any abstinence only stuff, at least in my experience. In fact, much of the sex ed section of health class was focused on the biology of it rather than the practice of it. We then hit the major STDs, and only rather briefly at the end went through contraception and sexual practices, and abstinence was given just as much time as everything else. No opinion of right or wrong was given, only objective pros and cons (and info) were provided. So it was good in that sense. Still, it was very shifted focus. Not much mention was made of rape or any of that. It wasn't really intended to educate kids about having sex, but rather about how reproduction works.

Of course, there's also so much stuff they never tell you about in sex ed, probably largely because there's just a lot of stuff a lot of people would rather not know about. Wimps.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Duke87

Virginia, huh? Hmm... I wouldn't have expected this of a state with that much red in it, but hey, pleasant surprises happen.

quote>

Virginia is changing a bit.   The aforementioned governor, Tim Kaine, got the state senate he wanted in the election a few weeks ago.

[The_Hutt 11]

Abstinence education just doesn't work. Here in California, I was drilled with *real* sex education in eight grade. Someone from Planned Parenthood came and basically showed us different types of birth control, STD's, answered taboo questions, the works. Of course, we still got the "safest sex is no sex" rhetoric, but still, it was far more valuable than some guy basically coming in and chewing our heads off while not really giving us the things we needed/wanted to know.

The people who insist upon abstinence-only are the same people who believe it is their duty to force their partisan personal opinions upon the general public. The perfect politician, in my opinion, is one whose personal beliefs never become relevant to their job (i.e. someone opposed to abortion or gay marriage would not ban it, but would merely allow the public to choose their own stance on the topic matter and make their own decisions).

[BurroDiablo 222]

Good for him, I can only imagine its a waste of time... all you get get in the end is a bunch of confused teenagers doing it ANYWAY, then getting pregnant. Religion shouldn't have so much control over schools these days, Religion is a choice and shouldn't be forced upon you.

[Odainsaker 2,133]

Much of the teaching-abstinence-only movement is driven by simple ideology, where the logic of abstinence being 100% safe makes sense within the limits of its own viewpoint and agenda, but which doesn't take into account the realities of the world outside its own ideology. Such thinking is always doomed to failure, and reported comparative studies have indeed begun showing that when it comes to dealing with teenage sexual behavior, unwanted pregnancies, or preventable sexually transmitted diseases, abstinence-only policies are ultimately ineffective. Public policy should be driven by demonstrated effectiveness, not self-obsessed ideology.

[Joesocwork 4]

Out in the professional world I tend to wonder whether parents, schools, churches, or other institutions are even teaching about sex at all.   

Sex serves three purposes:  A) procreation; B) powerful euphoria; and C) intense intimacy.  When I talk w/ clients, or many others for that matter, it often seems that people know the biology involved and understand one or two of those purposes but not all three.  I suspect that institutions focus on the consequences of sex, including pregnancy, transmission of body fluids, and intense interpersonal feelings rather than the purposes themselves.  To alleviate the negative consequences, obviously abstinence, i.e. not having sex, does prevent unwanted pregnancies, the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, and sexual abuse.  But a better understanding across the board of what sex is for and what it does, along with age appropriate preparation, should make prevention of undesirable consequences close to incidental.  

People should be aware that sex is where babies come and some methods of prevention are more/ less successful than others if reproducing is or is not the desired outcome.  The awareness of pleasure is something society almost automatically instills through media and peer pressure, but not every adolescent knows exactly when and how to deal with the sensations that they experience as the sexual drive starts to develop during puberty.  If the feelings are misunderstood then they become confused with other feelings such as love, or they can become addictive & overwhelming to the point of that they can distort personal judgment.  And the fact that most sex is a shared experience that brings about strong physical/emotional/psychological/spiritual connections between the participants means that people should have be expected to come to terms of the responsibilities of those connections and that society has a right to enforce certain limits (i.e. the participants should be consenting, of age, and the sharing is done in private).   Lack of regard for those connections can lead to poor interrelations between people or more severely, molestation and rape.  

Sex is such an important factor of the human condition.  As children reach an age appropriate I believe that their personal institutions, be they family, church, or school, have an obligation to teach all of this in appropriate manner.   But I suspect the institutions don't b/c they believe it is the responsibility of the other institutions or don't want this shared role to become confused with the separate, non-shared, roles of the other institutions.

[panthersimcity4 162]

Originally posted by: Garek Maxwell

Originally posted by: panthersimcity4

Christians aren't the only people who believe that Mary's a virgin, so do Sunni and Shia Muslims. And besides, last time I checked it was Evangelicals make up the majority of Right-wing Christians... But thats off topic...quote>

Er...Evangelicals are Christians... Just like Catholics are Christians. Why split up a blanket term only to create many exceptions? Just saying... quote>

Because, usually Catholic and especially Eastern Orthodox people hate being categorized with Protestant Christians.

Anyways, the problem with Abstinence Education is all it says is do nothing. I mean, if you don't teach your students the first clue about what sex is, then how can you expect them to be careful not to do it?

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: panthersimcity4

Anyways, the problem with Abstinence Education is all it says is do nothing. I mean, if you don't teach your students the first clue about what sex is, then how can you expect them to be careful not to do it?quote>

Makes about as much sense as taking driver's education out of the schools and then wondering why so many teenagers die in car crashes.   But we are doing that too. 

[hamsterTK 93]

well I had to go through abstinence only sex ed, and there wasn't a whole lot to it other than showing pictures of people with VD, stats on how much babies cost, followed by how condoms apparantely are failure-ridden.

Personally about a year later I did have sex, and that time I spent a while looking on the internet(not those sites lol) educating myself on it. So I'm not clueless. Unfortunately I believe a lot of people that are products of Texas public schools are.

Now honestly, a condom is not always effective at preventing a baby or VD. Just as how seatbelts are not always effective at preventing auto fatalities... But like they say, not wearing one is stupid, and you have to get behind the wheel sooner or later....

[JanYpe 17]

Well good on him. These abstinence-only programs have always seemed to me like a forehead-slappingly awful example of pushing moralizing politics into education. Hasn't anyone ever told these people that the fastest way to get teenagers to do anything at all is to tell them not to do it?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Abstinence-only works about as well as the rhythm method of birth control.  These ideas are based on church doctrines that have never really been very useful.

If you are going to talk about sex at all in school, it should be the whole bag, complete with the slide shows on the effects of STDs.  If the schools refrained for sex education altogether and left it to parents, I am not sure things would be any different than when I was a teener.  We had one talk with the basketball coach who said "It's better if you don't buf it you do use a condom."  Maybe that's all it takes, because it seemed to work in my generation.

[Easy Bakes 253]

California’s teen birth rate dropped to a record low in 2004.

Seems thier doing something right.

http://www.applications.dhs.ca.gov/pressreleases/store/pressreleases/06-34.html

[The_Hutt 11]

We have the best sex ed programs in the whole country. That's not an exaggeration, either.

[Joesocwork 4]

Originally posted by: N_O_Body Abstinence-only works about as well as the rhythm method of birth control.  

quote>

  

Well actually abstinence does work; no sex then no babies & STD's. It doesn't work if it's not practiced any more than a diet doesn't work if it's not followed.  Abstinence programs don't work b/c people don't want to be told about it or follow through with it.  Making it and other methods more palatable for youth is really the subject at hand.  Too bad they're identified as being as too churchy.   But I definitely agree that sex ed should taught in a complete manner.  The larger issue for me is that it is taught as a defensive measure instead of showing sex in its beauty.  It's much more than having babies and getting a thrill.  Keeping it on either a strictly biological nature or about the hormones makes the act more selfish than it should be.  Accepting the responsibility that comes with the intimacy gives it much more meaning.

EB:  Nice looking report.  I'll make it a point to ask my colleagues at work about it. 

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: Joesocwork

Originally posted by: N_O_Body Abstinence-only works about as well as the rhythm method of birth control.  

quote>

  

Well actually abstinence does work; no sex then no babies & STD's. It doesn't work if it's not practiced any more than a diet doesn't work if it's not followed.  Abstinence programs don't work b/c people don't want to be told about it or follow through with it.  Making it and other methods more palatable for youth is really the subject at hand.  Too bad they're identified as being as too churchy.   But I definitely agree that sex ed should taught in a complete manner.  The larger issue for me is that is taught as a defensive measure instead of showing it in its beauty.  It's much more than having babies and getting a thrill.  Keeping it on either a strictly biological nature or about the hormones makes the act more selfish than it should be.  Accepting the responsibility that comes with the intimacy gives it much more meaning.

EB:  Nice looking report.  I'll make it a point to ask my colleagues at work about it. quote>

 

I heard a news report on the radio about  a condom program in some california school

thats been in place for 2 or 3 years and the teen pregnancy rate had droped 50% in that area

since then. 

that realy wasnt the specific article i was looking for  but very informative.

[purpledaddy 6]

Originally posted by: Joesocwork  But I definitely agree that sex ed should taught in a complete manner.  quote>

 

Here! Here! I'm all for complete STEX education on Simtropolis too!

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: purpledaddy Here! Here! I'm all for complete STEX education on Simtropolis too! quote>

STEX education? "Don't do it, but if you do use a zip file"?

...okay, "zip file" is officially a euphemism for "condom" now. You're welcome.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: Duke87

Originally posted by: purpledaddy Here! Here! I'm all for complete STEX education on Simtropolis too! quote>

STEX education? "Don't do it, but if you do use a zip file"?

...okay, "zip file" is officially a euphemism for "condom" now. You're welcome.quote>

That's classic.  You have now forever ruined whatever shred of dignity the STEX still had.