Anti-Gay Verdict

[DOXXP29 5]

Freedom of speech is one thing. Disrupting a funeral and causing anguish for others is something else. A Maryland jury sent a message to the haters who were protesting at places they really should've stayed away from. (Actually, in my opinion, they ought to stay away from EVERYWHERE!) These so-called religious zealots make me puke.

Jury Awards Father $11M in Funeral Case

FILE NO SALES

By ALEX DOMINGUEZ, AP

20 minutes ago

BALTIMORE — 

A grieving father won a nearly $11 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals out of a belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

Albert Snyder of York, Pa., sued the Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.

The federal jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress.

Snyder's attorney, Craig Trebil*****, had urged jurors to determine an amount "that says don't do this in Maryland again. Do not bring your circus of hate to Maryland again."

The defense said it planned to appeal, and one of the church's leaders, Shirley Phelps-Roper, said the members would continue to picket military funerals.

"Absolutely; don't you understand this was an act in futility?" Phelps-Roper said.

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates fags."

Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that soldiers are dying because the nation is too tolerant of homosexuality.

Their attorneys maintained in closing arguments Tuesday that the burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.

A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries. But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.

The church and three of its leaders _ Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Phelps-Roper and Rebekah Phelps-Davis, 46 _ were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.

The group is confident the award will be overturned on appeal, Phelps said

"Oh, it will take about five minutes to get that thing reversed," he said.

Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal courthouse. Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a sign that read "God hates fag enablers." Members of the grou

[Micah 16]

Westboro Baptist Church quote>

Haven't we already had a thread about this church? Just curious.

These guys have been on many shows that I watch, one including Hannity & Colmes, and these people *btw, 80% of the church is from the same family* are completely sick. They should not call themselves Christians.

[DOXXP29 5]

Probably, Marc. They've been involved in quite a few repulsive antics recently. I recall them being at Arlington National Cemetary or the Tomb of the Unknowns with this same thing. Also, they were at one of the war/anti-war marches in D.C. with more of the same. It's organizations like this that give churches and religion a bad name.

[Palpatine001 57]

What on Earth?

From an international stand point

Only in America

These people need their heads read or something...

[topcliff 1]

Okay, churches simply saying it's bad and nothing else is okay. Separation of church and state and the First Amendment. But, going out and defacing American values by standing on our flag is crossing the line. These people are a serious threat. They may eventually escalate to physical threats. I don't care if they are protected by the First Amendment, they should be charged with hate crimes. We're all equal, no matter what race, origin, sexual preference, etc.

[BurroDiablo 222]

They were on the TV in the UK on the Jeremy Kyle show... my gf watched something over YouTube and I couldn't help but watch it too because it was pretty disturbing. 'Thank God for 9/11' 'God hates the World'... I mean, damn... makes me disown religion even more when it can breed people like this.

[Boggy1 45]

It's very sickening, but probably the best way to deal with it is to ignore them. They will probably die out (who the heck would want to breed with them..unless they start interbreeding with themsel-DONT GO THERE) soon.

Whats probably worse is that one of the two youngest daughters is training to be a nurse. A nurse!?!? "Hey sorry I can't treat you for this life-threatening injury because your gay, oh and, go to hell, God hates you! You should die!!"

Euch.

[Godzillaman 21]

You can't deny people just because they're different. "oh your gay, you're going to hell." This stuff brings down the church, and it makes people disgusted about the church.

"Hey sorry I can't treat you for this life-threatening injury because your gay, oh and, go to hell, God hates you! You should die!!" boggy1

Dude I'd sue in this situation in this situation.

[ShortStraw 1]

Nice to see those folks finally get knocked down a peg.  They've been running their smear campaign for a long time and getting away with it by hiding behind freedom of speech and freedom of religion.  It's about time.

[Psycho_Teddy 25]

I think it is religious cults (yes, I would consider this a cult) like this that really give the Christian religion a six foot hole in the ground in which to bury itself.  Having been involved in the religion for quite some time, things like this radical uprising in the church do not surprise me.  The Christian movement has gotten to the point of desperation.  They, in light of the vast amount of oppressive evidence in the scientific field, are having a VERY difficult time "recruiting" new members.  And so, they turn to acts of violence like this.  The radical Christian movement is becoming more and more offensive and dictatorial than ever before.  "If you don't believe us, then you will have a front row seat in hell.  And we are here to shock and awe you into submission."  is the message they are sending, and its quite the wrong one.  They actually may well become a threat (not all Christians, but the radicalists) in the next few years if this movement goes unchecked. 

There are many churches out there who's primary goal is to stir up as much controversy in the community as possible, and I think that the Bible is their primary tool of manipulation.  I've seen it myself.  Hell, one time we were in church at school (I went to a Christian school) and there was a sermon about how our personal possessions are not ours, but God's.  And he was saying that, therefore, we should give away most of our possessions and keep what is only absolutely necessary.  But then, next week, we have a sermon about how God wants us to be prosperous and rich.  How ludicrous!  The Bible can be "interpreted" in so many different ways that almost any conclusion can be made about it.  And there are so many theologists that debate the true meaning of it that it has completely turned me off to the religion.  It goes back to the Medievil Catholic church, but its just not quite that oppressive.  One theologist says that you should interpret a verse this way, and this is a concrete interpretation because he has "evidence" to support it.  If you oppose his interpretation, well then you'll have hell to pay (quite literally, they will say, in some aspects).

This event is horrible and will certainly give the Christian right some very bad PR for the upcoming election (as if it doesn't have enough already).  If God tells the Christians to be "kind and compassionate" (its in Matthew, I believe), then why do they feel that they have the right to interrupt this ceremony of grief and pain only by causing more of it?  How inconsiderate, rude, and hateful.

(Gets off soapbox)

[schm0 27]

Might want to change the title of the thread. It made it sound like the verdict was "against" gay rights, and not about free speech. It should be something like "Funeral Protestor Verdict." While this group is mainly an anti-gay religious group, they have some pretty radical views on a variety of topics, not just gay rights.

[TheSixCents 0]

80% from the same family.

Anti-Gay

Utah Anyone?

actually, Pennsylvania has alot of radical religious groups (Quakers, who are more on the other end of the spectrum)

[topcliff 1]

This reminds me of a life lesson I learned oh so long ago. Bias is not known, but bred. These people were probably manipulated in so many ways they can barely tell what's right and what's wrong. Sickening, just sickening. I would not be surprised if some other pro-gay rights group burned the church down. I'm not saying we should burn a church down (even if it is as twisted as Kong at Great America), I'm simply saying I wouldn't be surprised.

[GingerBlokey 30]

Originally posted by: Palpatine001 What on Earth?

From an international stand point

Only in America

These people need their heads read or something...quote>

Took the words out of my mouth.

In the UK these people would be in jail for Inciting Racial Hatred

[zane900 1]

Originally posted by: Boggy1"Hey sorry I can't treat you for this life-threatening injury because your gay, oh and, go to hell, God hates you! You should die!!"quote>

Oh, did you meet that nurse at Methodist Hospital, too?

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[toxicpiano 125]

Originally posted by: GingerBlokey

Originally posted by: Palpatine001 What on Earth?

From an international stand point

Only in America

These people need their heads read or something...quote>

Took the words out of my mouth.

In the UK these people would be in jail for Inciting Racial Hatredquote>

Also we have laws against homosexual discrimination

[toxicpiano 125]

Originally posted by: topcliff This reminds me of a life lesson I learned oh so long ago. Bias is not known, but bred. These people were probably manipulated in so many ways they can barely tell what's right and what's wrong. Sickening, just sickening. I would not be surprised if some other pro-gay rights group burned the church down. I'm not saying we should burn a church down (even if it is as twisted as Kong at Great America), I'm simply saying I wouldn't be surprised.quote>

Oddly enough one of the people from outside their family is a documentary film maker, who went into that church to make a doc and never came out.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

I remember watching Louis Therox' documentry on this church a while back. They made the effort to make a sign saying Princess Diana is a whore just to get the British Public Attention.

Now, if you want to get someones attention and support, dont call their beloved princess a whore...

[saltandsauce 0]

Originally posted by: GingerBlokey

Originally posted by: Palpatine001 What on Earth?

From an international stand point

Only in America

These people need their heads read or something...quote>

Took the words out of my mouth.

In the UK these people would be in jail for Inciting Racial Hatredquote>

as long as they weren't white christians

[panthersimcity4 162]

Thank God, those people are so sickening. I can't believe they call themselves "Christians", purely revolting.

They also want the Pope to "go to Hell" and say that "Gay Jews are the real Nazis"....

[Simcitytrainer 3]

They CAN'T be Christians,God says to love everyone.That church destroys that rule. And that family is got to be the meanest and most USED family in the world.

And also probably the dumbest one too.

How can they be a family I have no idea.

But that church is no church in my mind.

___From the gay furry.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

These people have never heard of the Sermon on the Mount.  They are about a Christian as my cats.

There is no question in my mind that they are a "hate group" and if they were in Canada, they would either be in jail or on "hi watcha".  The things that they do are illegal here, and inciting or spreading hate is pretty serious in our multicultural matrix.

Notwithstanding the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, I don't think their doings are protected.  Are there no laws against spreading malicious hate?  What's wrong with your public security people, anyway?  This is clearly something like inciting to riot.

[coolotter88 2]

yeah, well, the entire church is one man and his inbred, extended family, no one needs to pay attention to these dum-dums

[Psycho_Teddy 25]

Originally posted by: N_O_Body These people have never heard of the Sermon on the Mount.  They are about a Christian as my cats.

There is no question in my mind that they are a "hate group" and if they were in Canada, they would either be in jail or on "hi watcha".  The things that they do are illegal here, and inciting or spreading hate is pretty serious in our multicultural matrix.

Notwithstanding the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, I don't think their doings are protected.  Are there no laws against spreading malicious hate?  What's wrong with your public security people, anyway?  This is clearly something like inciting to riot.quote>

There is a clause in the Constitution that allows the prohibition of speech so long as it is in the form of slander (verbal, unfounded spread of hate speech towards a particular person or persons) and libel (the same thing, only this time, in written form).  I think this clause may be the reason that the subsequent verdict was issued.  However, I'm not too clear on the punishments for slander, or libel.  But I'm sure it's somewhere along the lines of a fourth-degree misdemeanor (lowest possible charge, short jail time, small fine, maybe).

The thing is, the interpretation of the Constitution can be so loose sometimes that you can get out of just about anything pertaining to hate speech.  Our system is quite flawed.

Ie- We don't have failure to assist persons in danger laws, as most of Europe does.  I would strongly support this type of legislature, but I fear it will probably be deemed "Unconstitutional" in some aspect.

[screamingman12 30]

Just as long as these "people" realize that they are the ridiculed scum of the earth, and that they will never be listened to or taken seriously.

[Duke87 1,070]

As a libertarian who believes in absolute free speech, I disagree with this verdict. The first amendment guarantees Americans the right to say whatever, whenever, wherever and have it be legal. No exceptions.

That means you are perfectly within your rights to stand outside someone's funeral picketing and preaching hate. You're a total {expletive deleted} if you do, but it's still perfectly legal.

-------------

Also, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks the whole "god hates gays" thing is maybe just a bit contradictory to the whole "god loves everyone" thing.

[tjperry88 24]

Okay... for anyone who was properly educated.... America (specifically the United States of America) was founded on basic principles. To be different.... the right to ones own religion and beliefs if not any beliefs.... the right to freedom of speech as in this protest was okay but that was taken to a significant level I feel. People in this protest are the kind of people I cannot stand, the ones who think their religion and views are the right way. This is what is the cause of 90% of the world chaotic problems such as the War on Terrorism and such.... all because people think they are better. Racism pretty much. Honestly this is what led me to be atheist because I am not being marked as this belief and have lost everything over stupidity. If this makes any sense to you I am glad... but if not, pretty much I am saying let people be who they want and choose. WE THE PEOPLE, make our society... and without diversity we would not be as strong as we are. As for Canada... aren't I glad to have you right next door only 10 minutes away if I need to get away. Other than that... all you human beings who think their better than anyone else can go back to school, learn on your own and make your own judgments.

The one nail that was hit hard and really upsets me in this case is the face that this man was willing and stood up for Freedom and served his country. And this is what he gets!? I hope all them people in the protest have their very own protest at their funeral services and such. Its just dumb and poorly educated people have nothing better to do with their lifes.

[Psycho_Teddy 25]

You clearly haven't read my post above, nor the Constitution, my friend.  What these people were doing was slanderous in every aspect towards the gay community.  Blaming them for the atrocities in Iraq is an unfounded condemnation, which the Constitution does not protect.  Read the first amendment again.

[delldimensions 0]

Most litigators would likely put this case in the realm of personal privacy if they were looking to convict, rather than free speech. It's very difficult to prove slander or to get around the First Amendment that way. It would be much easier to prove that the privacy rights of this family were violated by the protest than to argue that the WBC's conduct was slanderous.

As to my personal opinion, Fred Phelps is a sick, deluded megalomaniac.