Remove the avenue median!!!

[6459978. 106]

I don''t know about the rest of you, but I find the median (the barrier down the middle) in the avenue to be a real hassle. It is largely unrealistic, and poses some gameplay issues.

Is it possible for someone to create a modd that would effectively remove the median?

 

I don''t know much about the details, but it would basically involve editing the road texture (turn the median into a left turn lane or something) and changing some sort of path properties so sims can make left turns across traffic to their destinations. If possible, I would like this to be a seperate type of road, so that the median type is still available.

 

Please let me know what you think.

[jakeweaver2500 0]

Why dont you like the median? I think that it is realistic and it even changes with what kind of wealth is on it.

[DarkMatter 21]

The chances of converting avenue medians into functional turn lanes is scarece at best, with our knowledge right now. Granted, we know quite a bit about how the pathfinding engine works and how paths work, but avenues are two tiles wide, and a turn lane would have to span BOTH tiles. I havn't ever seen anything like that before, and developing something like that is bound to be fairly difficult with our current knowledge. No telling when we will know enough to make such a thing.

[Tolomar 5]

well realisticly....your only suppose to turn off an avenue at an intersecting street...and u-turns are a no no....kinda defeats the idea of putting in an anvenue if you don't want it to function like an avenue, the median is there to stop ppl from doing u-turns...that why there is a median

PS got to luv the bunny --->

[ALTX 40]

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On 11/2/2003 12:07:43 PM 6459978. wrote:

I don't know about the rest of you, but I find the median (the barrier down the middle) in the avenue to be a real hassle. It is largely unrealistic, and poses some gameplay issues.

Is it possible for someone to create a modd that would effectively remove the median?

 

I don't know much about the details, but it would basically involve editing the road texture (turn the median into a left turn lane or something) and changing some sort of path properties so sims can make left turns across traffic to their destinations. If possible, I would like this to be a seperate type of road, so that the median type is still available.

 

Please let me know what you think.

----------------

where are you from outer space? Medians are everywhere in my boulevards in my hometown

[DarkMatter 21]

Avenues with medians are actually much less frequent in the average city than avenues with a center turning lane. In the some 10 cities around where I live, there are a couple main central avenues that are only partly separated by central medians, and the rest is a turning lane. All the other avenues in these cities have no median, just a turning lane. In general, in the cities around where I live, only the higher-wealth areas, generally the higher-wealth residential areas, have medians. Lower-wealth areas and areas of higher commercial activity have turning lanes.

 

The largest problem with making turning-lane avenues is that they shouldn't replace the existing median avenues. They should be an additional option. Since we don't yet know how to add our own network types, we can't do this. I personally like avenues with medians in my residential areas, but I would rather have avenues with turning lanes in my commercial areas.

[Shawn 0]

Maybe if it was even just a visual change and not a functional one. In Denver where I grew up and here in Seattle, a lot of the suburban avenues are two lanes for each direction of travel with a central turning lane that can be used for either direction of traffic:

 

 

As you can see this image only has one lane of traffic going either way, but it illustrates my point pretty well. In a perfent world, the game would have two avenue options. Standard Avenue which looks like the above example (again, with two lanes on each side of the central turning lane) and then the Divided Avenue which is what the game has now.

[Equinox 1,209]

Have fun editing and replacing textures and removing the trees! ...

I might be interested in this one when it's all finished up.  Gotta see how it turns out, though.

[Minotaur420 2]

Center turning lanes, or, suicide lanes, are pretty common. I've seen them much more often on two lane roads, but sometimes four lane avenues have them too. Most avenues near me either have nothing in the middle or a median with breaks at busy turns. I live in a more suburban area though. It probably depends on where you live whether or not you see roads like this very much or not. When I visited Nashville, just about every two lane road had a suicide lane, which was always used by pedestrians to cross too. (of course i stayed near vanderbilt university, so it might have just been college students)

[cammo2003 20]

Interestingly enough, I can't think of ONE place here in Sydney that has a suicide lane.... Most of the main thoroughfares here though don't have a centre median (there simply isn't enough space for it), although there is one on the section of the Princes Highway that goes past my place...

 

Many of the main roads here are somewhat like this:

 

 

I'm guessing though that this is simply not possible due to the preset spacing of lanes by the median...

The lines at the edge aren't always there either...

 

The extra space gained by the absence of a median is usually filled by sidewalks.

[Antecedent 0]

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On 11/3/2003 3:25:33 AM cammo2003 wrote:

Interestingly enough, I can't think of ONE place here in Sydney that has a suicide lane.... Most of the main thoroughfares here though don't have a centre median (there simply isn't enough space for it), although there is one on the section of the Princes Highway that goes past my place...

Many of the main roads here are somewhat like this:

I'm guessing though that this is simply not possible due to the preset spacing of lanes by the median...

The lines at the edge aren't always there either...

The extra space gained by the absence of a median is usually filled by sidewalks.

----------------

You have to be kidding me. Take a drive down Victoria Road, through Gladesville/Burns Bay.
The Left lane ends, then starts, and repeats every 200m for right hand turn lanes on the opposite side of the road.

Also, Epping road has many. Epping road in some places has a green median up to 25m across.

[the7trumpets 10]

Okay guys, I love the ideas, but there are a few things going against us that will probably render this impossible:

 

• Anything we did would have to replace the current avenue system, which I doubt everyone would want to do.  There is no way to add an additional two tile wide network (sorry).
• Even if we did want to do this, it would require editing litterally thousands of textures and rewritting hundreds of path files, mostly by hand.  The sheer workload for the minimal payoff in gameplay enhancement makes me think we could better spend our time improving a different aspect of the game.
• Quality Control on these new textures because of the number necissary would be very difficult, so the overall appearance probably wouldn't be stellar when we were done.

 

Sorry to be the pessemistic realist, I just think there are other areas of the transit system that are easier to modd/change which will provide for greater flexibility in our cities.  Take a look at krelf's awesome work tweaking some of the models so that we can get single sided highway ramps.

Don't get me wrong, I've always been for providing what the community wants, but I just think people don't realize the work involved in doing something of this magnitude.  I'd rather focus on things which can have a bigger bang for your buck improvement .

[doctorgonzo 6]

I think the median is very realistic. Think of it this way: avenues can carry more traffic because vehicles can't make a left turn wherever they want. They can only make left turns at proper intersection. Taking away the median is the unrealistic version, in my opinion.

The only place where the median is truly a problem is at the highway/avenue interchanges. That is a proper intersection, and traffic in real life is able to make a left turn at these kinds of interchanges, either from the avenue to the entrance ramp or from the exit ramp onto the avenue. I would much rather see that fixed than see median removed elsewhere.

[Biekko 2]

Hmmm, in my beautiful country of nIceland there are practically no avenue like roads that don't have a medium like the one seen in SC4. In my home town there is like a 20 meter stretch of road that has two lanes each direction and a double painted line in the middle but that is probably just because there wasn't room for a median. Except for this tiny piece of road, all 4-lane+ roads have medians and actually there are sometimes two-lane roads with medians separating the driving directions although there is just one lane each direction, I guess our city planners are very nervous about us hitting each other in our cars. So you can see I'm pretty satisfied with the avenue as it is although I've never actually seen medians like those in the game but then again you can't have everything.

[6459978. 106]

Let me clarify where I'm coming from here.

 

First of all, I live in Toronto. Some streets have medians, but the majority don't.

 

A lot of you said you've never seen avenues without medians. But an avenue is just a 4 lane road. So you mean all 4 lane roads where you come from have medians? That's certainly not how it is here.

 

And as for suicide lanes, I didn't really mean that I want them, just that they would take up the space dictated by the median. I don't actually want cars to make turns from the middle lane if they don't have to, I just want them to be able to make left turns period.

 

Would it be possible to just change the properties of an avenue, so that sims can make left turns "through" the median?

 

---but, as a final note, I really think that this, along with diagonal streets and a whole slew of other realistic road options, should have been something that Maxis gave to us in the RH transportation add-on. The Modd Squad shouldn't have to do it at all.

 

PS maxis should release some sort of network editor like the lot editor for changing some of the road stuff, like paths and all.

[krelf 0]

Most of the 4-lane roads here in Melbourne, Australia are a mix of both. In the inner suburbs and outer suburbs that built bigger than they were supposed to and roads had to be widened without tearing down buildings there is no median, just a double line down the middle.
However in most outer suburbs and planned areas or in the CBD there is a median down the middle.

[edit]oh yeah, and on most roads with the medians there is a breach every so often with a right-turn lane so you can do a u-turn and go back instead of going all the way to the traffic lights.[/edit]

[Dippit 0]

From what I have read (although I may be wrong, read my sig) the biggest problem with the medians is that they dnt allow sims to cross the road to get back home. The sim has to go past their home then do a u turn at the nearest intersection in order to get home. some kinf of mod to fix this would be nice.

BTW, most Avenue or Boulevard type roads in my city have a painted median. there are two white painted lines abt a metre apart with stripes down the middle, similar to a suicide lane.

[sunlord 1]

Here in detroit we have medians on all the aves save 2 and those have a center left turn lane... but the rest all have "michigan lefts" thats not the real name but bacisly it's a turnaround lane every so often built into the median that lets a people turn around and go the other since we don't allow lefts at the interestions for safety and speed.

A = Ave road surface
M = median
T = the turn around int eh median

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMTTTMMMMMM
MTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTMMMMMM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Fattz 0]

Gang,

I came across this quite by accident a couple of weeks ago, and it may help with some of the traffic problems.

You can create "turnarounds" anyplace on an avenue by just placing (I think it's) 2 regular road tiles (maybe 3, one for the median?) across the avenue anyplace there is NOT an intersection. What it does is make a place for traffic to turn around (and yes, there are traffic lights there too, as it it were an intersection), just without any side road. Hopefully the picture will explain it better than I have, and more importantly, that it even helps :-D

----------------

On 11/3/2003 9:01:36 PM Dippit wrote:

From what I have read (although I may be wrong, read my sig) the biggest problem with the medians is that they dnt allow sims to cross the road to get back home. The sim has to go past their home then do a u turn at the nearest intersection in order to get home. some kinf of mod to fix this would be nice.

BTW, most Avenue or Boulevard type roads in my city have a painted median. there are two white painted lines abt a metre apart with stripes down the middle, similar to a suicide lane.----------------

[+Guest]

You can use that small road option, the one that comes up when you zone. You can place it between the two sides and there wont be any stop lights so the cars an just turn ariund withought stopping

[Vaelin 0]

Like vladamir said,
You can cross the avenue all the way down (I know this is tedious, but it IS a work-arouund) with streets that don't go beyond the boundaries of the avenue like:
AAAAASAAASAAASAA
AAAAASAAASAAASAA

Only make all of the crossings streets. This essentially allows for 'turn lanes'. Now, I'm not entirely certain how the engine will use this, but I'm guessing the speed limit or capacity of your avenue may drop below that of a regular avenue if you do this along the length... but that only makes sense. Where I grew up we simply called them five lane roads (It was understood that a road with an odd number would have the middle lane be a turn road) and in a situation where a turn lane existed, the speed limit and capacity of the road was less due to people slowing down frequently to turn. So if this happens, it is what you're asking for.

Although it's slightly off topic, I don't know why we can't have shifting one-way roads. In Houston, there is a 3-lane road without a turn lane that goes through a residential area. Many commuters live there, but it's fairly dense, so that can't add two more lanes without taking out alot of buildings. So, the middle lane changes direction at different times of the day for commuters. I don't know anyone else's experience with this sort of thing, but a commuter road like this that would not necessarily have as big of an impact on commercial, but have a higher capacity, would be nice to have...

[glicko 0]

Just to add my 2c:

Where I live (Calgary), the "avenues" (basically, major surface traffic arteries) are nearly always divided with a curbed and grassed median or, at least, a concrete "New Jersey" barrier. Single or dual left turn lanes are usually provided as U-turns are discouraged at intersection (and illegal at traffic signals). The only exceptions to this are older streets that once had streetcars and some industrial roads. Two-way left turn lanes (aka "suicide lanes") are almost never used. Simcity's avenues model Calgary's "divided major street" and "expressway"-class roads very well ("expressway" in Calgary means high-speed road with grade-level intersections and strict access control -- no private driveways).

Every city (in the real world) has its own design standards and road classifications. Michigan left-turns, Jersey jughandles (left turns from the right lane), Melbourne's hook-turns, etc... are completely normal in some places and absolutely bizarre in others. That said, it sounds like it'd be exsquisite hell for the designers at Maxis to cater to all of the strange traffic designs people come up with (or default to!).

[SimCop 4]

7,

What about modding the "dirt road" network tiles into a continious left turn lane that can be placed seperately between two one way roads? This would all end up three tiles wide, instead of two, but with the right textures you would have 5 lanes total. Since it would be a left turn only lane, the smaller traffic capacities of the "dirt road" tiles wouldn't be a problem.

I'll admit, I don't really know what I'm talking about when it comes to modding, it's just an idea that can maybe be expanded on.

[the7trumpets 10]

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On 11/4/2003 12:31:27 AM SimCop wrote:7,

What about modding the 'dirt road' network tiles into a continious left turn lane that can be placed seperately between two one way roads?  This would all end up three tiles wide, instead of two, but with the right textures you would have 5 lanes total.  Since it would be a left turn only lane, the smaller traffic capacities of the 'dirt road' tiles wouldn't be a problem. 

I'll admit, I don't really know what I'm talking about when it comes to modding, it's just an idea that can maybe be expanded on.

----------------

I would rather us use the dirt roads for something a bit more flexible which adds to the game more.  Plus, the way the RUL files are structured, it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to make that plan work for diagonals.  So it would only serve a purpose for orthagonal one way roads running paralell with one tile separating them from each other.  That just sounds very single-purposed to me.

My suggestion: use the turnarounds by connecting the two sides of the avenue with a oneway or street.  With the latest transit BugFix modd, you can create them diagonally as well as orthagonally .

[btxtsf 0]

Don't take any insiration from Melbourne - we have these great 'hook turns' where you turn right from the left lane at intersections with trams running up the middle of the roads. Here's a pic, but imagine with a car instead of bicycle.

[cammo2003 20]

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On 11/3/2003 6:19:23 AM Antecedent wrote:

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On 11/3/2003 3:25:33 AM cammo2003 wrote:

Interestingly enough, I can't think of ONE place here in Sydney that has a suicide lane.... Most of the main thoroughfares here though don't have a centre median (there simply isn't enough space for it), although there is one on the section of the Princes Highway that goes past my place...

Many of the main roads here are somewhat like this:

I'm guessing though that this is simply not possible due to the preset spacing of lanes by the median...

The lines at the edge aren't always there either...

The extra space gained by the absence of a median is usually filled by sidewalks.

----------------

You have to be kidding me. Take a drive down Victoria Road, through Gladesville/Burns Bay.
The Left lane ends, then starts, and repeats every 200m for right hand turn lanes on the opposite side of the road.

Also, Epping road has many. Epping road in some places has a green median up to 25m across.
----------------

Ok, point taken. However there are quite a few areas where there aren't medians on the main thoroughfares (George Street in the city is an excellent example of this).

And you've got to admit that suicide lanes aren't that common here... At least I haven't seen any on the south side of Sydney.

[yoseph 0]

Hey! I live in the suburbs of New York City on Long Island and there are a lot of streets where I live, too. But I still think that the avenues in SC4 look real! They look just as real as the ones in NYC, so I don't know about you, 6459978., but I'm satisfied.

[Trolca 15]

I would like some variety in this area. I think only the high wealth areas should have a median. In the cities I've lived in I'd say over 90 percent of the four or more lane roads did not have one.

[+Guest]

I can only think of one road I have been on that has had a median in the middle: Route 1 through Northeast Philadelphia, and only beause it is 6 lanes each direction.

[Stormscape 8]

We have a 4/5 lane road (5 lanes during morning and evening rush hour, or 7:30AM-9:30AM and 3:00PM-6:00PM)
and it has a SINGLE YELLOW LINE! We have ONE ROAD that's four lanes here that has a median.... though the median is five lanes wide in some places :S
But the interesting part.... or challeange for the mod squad would be this: In some parts of the city the Highway/Interstate whatever you call it is sepearted by over 50M... as in eastbound is 50M median away from Westbound. So answer this: could we make one way highways, three lanes wide?