Do sims fans like simcity societies?

[Ntq€310 1]

everyone thinks since simcity societies has a sims aspect to the game, will make sims fans buy it and love it, but honestly do you think sims fans like it, i dont because

sims fans want to control everyday life for 8 sims, and simcity societies have you ploping buildings and seeing a reaction, not enough sims in there to give it a sims fan base

sims fans also have sims 2 , expansion packs, and soon to be sims 3

 

[Cob92 360]

Personally, I think that the game is a sloppy, poorly done attempt at combining the elements of the Sims and SimCity. In trying to integrate them, SimCity Societies has lost the key elements of SimCity and failed to implement any of those of the Sims.

[ADG 0]

The societies part of SC:S is the only interesting part about the game. I like both SimCity and The Sims, but as far as I can tell SC:S fails to incorporate the features that makes those games great

Seems like most of SC:S are also TM fans... coincidence?

[purpledaddy 6]

Since this forum started I've looked & looked and I've never seen the comparison between Sim City Societies and The Sims that other members were claiming.  I'm frequently on Sims fansites and I've seen absolutely no presence by Tilted Mill staff or efforts to market the game there as they are here.  My guess why members are believing that Sim City Societies was meant as a way to "grab Sims fans" is the social concepts emphasis that TM has advertised and misconceptions about The Sim fans by Sim City only fans.

 In their press releases and website, Tilted Mill appears to be wanting to show variety in players' cities by creating a concept they call "social energies-  i.e. industry, wealth, obedience, knowledge, devotion, or creativity"  as a way that determines how a city will look.  In so marketing, they used the psychobabble "create their cultures, societal behaviors and environments as well ".  link (see first papagraph)   

My speculation, and it is speculation like everyone else's assertion I've read in this forum, is that Tilted Mill was wanting to by finding a creative way to avoid the redundancy of similar buildings that come with zoning and perhaps make plopping appealing.

In a way, Sim City 4 started to go this route by allowing cities to create multiple cities in a region that have mixtures or specialization or Residential, Commercial, and Industrial and degrees of wealth, §, §§, §§§.  My personal hope has always been that EA Games/Maxis/next maker would expand this further into a Sim Nation concept where individual cities and lots could specialize in such ways tourism, trade, education, and government that contribute to the region as a whole.  I can't tell from the press release or website if a sim nation concept is part of their intent or not.

If there is anything of The Sims that Sim City 4 seems to have mimicked, it's the region concept, where there are cities to a region in Sim City as there are lots/families to a neighborhood in The Sims.  If I am reading the press releases and website  right, the similarity between Sim City Societies and The Sims is how "social energies" that defines a city's character is similar to "Simology" (i.e.  logic/creative, neat/sloppy, outgoing/shy,  energetic/lazy, nice/mean) that defines individual Sims's character.    But note that that comparison is talking about individuals, not the entire "culture, societal behaviors, and environments" of an entire neighborhood.

Now about Sims fans.  Almost every thread I read on The Sims fansites discusses the individuals and familes and others in their immediate neighborhood.   If there is social context like in SCS or City Life it's a background where Sims stories can be played out, such as a midieval, gothic, or vacation setting.  When we play, we play out the lives and stories of the Sims along w/ their friends, love interests, and enemies.  Sims fans don't look for larger macro aspects of "cultures, societal behaviors and environments".  There really isn't any in The Sims and Sims fans aren't looking for them.   Now that I'm looking at it, I find the concept intriguing, but it would mean a major change in The Sims as well.  There isn't a larger societal "Sims of a feather" concept beyond how individual Simologies and attractions/ repulsions match up like Sim City Societies or City Life suggest in their play.  The only way that  "industry, wealth, obedience, knowledge, devotion, or creativity" of a city would appeal to a Sims fan is if there is a way that it would directly affect The Sim and family.  The Social Energies, for good or for bad, were clearly meant to give personality to cities not offer additional components to The Sims.  I've even polled elsewhere for my own curiosity. The Sims (only) players would only be interested in any version of Sim City if that version permitted actual interplay with created Sims (not the My Sims version).   For those of us who like both games, we like them for completely different reasons.  I  like The Sims b/c I want to feel invested in their lives and I like Sim City b/c I like seeing how cities develop after I plan them out.  Other than planning and seeing what comes next,  the appeal of the results are completely different.  

Given the probable unintentional psychobabble, I can see Tilted Mill's semantics could lead some to think they were intending to combine the two games, but only if one doesn't understand The Sims.   All of the other discussions about the merits of future game aside, I wish Tilted Mills well in offering variety, but I clearly believe they are wanting the cities, not Sims, to be unique.

[Random Person 0]

The obvious answer is, the Sims don't KNOW it's a game, so they can't have an opinion on the matter.

[purpledaddy 6]

Hey, I resemble that remark!

[Jeff Fiske 0]

Indeed, we do not think about this game as a Sims games, and to us, at Tilted Mill, 'Societies' means as a plural of an individual city- that takes on a persona.

But we totally see why so many would think of it as some Sims thing- which it is not. Very early on, before it was public, we realized that a generation of gamers was coming up in an era where far more people were familiar with the Sims then SimCity.   But it was always about the city to us- the Sims are a just a communication vehicle to see how your city functions- and to show you directly- how your city is flowing if you will.  If you want to park the camera on the streetcorner and watch the daily life, go for it- but the focal point is not to allow you to do this- but to make a real game model that makes this endevor more than just eye-candy- and  making that experience worthwhile to begin with.

<Edited out stuff about how we got started with EA, and why the changes as that has been covered.>

Unlike most citybuilding games, we really wanted the cities to be able to work differently, at the same time be malleable.  Sometimes when you play a CB game, once you have played it for a while it always seems like the cities you are building are the same, because you go through the same mental processes to get it going.  Come to think of it, often when you play a 'new' city building game for the first time, it feels like you have played it before. We really wanted to help bring something truely different from any CB game before.

One thing we wanted to do was to address the question- What if I want to make a place that feels like Paris, or  Shangra-la? What about Ellis Island NY? What about LA? What about  some place I saw in a movie or read in a book at some time?  Do these places function differently? Do cops in Amsterdam behave the same way cops in LA behave?  This goes beyond architecture, the rules are different in these places. Workdays, law enforcment, it all works differently- can we create a flexible city builder that allowed you to mix and match these principles of how societies create and deal with their problems?

Couple of Quick example- some intense workplaces in a materialist society have a 7 day workweek, which makes it harder to keep those people happy when compared to to some contemplative buildings with a 3 day work week. 

But the people in the Materialistic or modern society get a lot of happiness from retail venues which give you happiness from objects they purchase and add to their person or home.  Of course crime now has a bigger impact as burglars will actually steal these bonuses if you don't take care of the problem.

Then again, in the contemplative, you are barely making any money, but there is no crime. 

So we admit. You can't build the ultimate Urban Metropolis better or equal to SC4- but every time you play, you can build something new. You can build a city that feels different, and that feels like a society.  (We already have over 350 buildings and for the most part they are different.) And if you don't like the society you have created, you don't have to load up a scenario or quit, just start transforming your society with the buildings available to you.

It is a creative, flexible, city building game where each city can feel like a society. Since you can build more than one, it becomes societies.  At least that is how we see it, and we are working on trying to make this more clear.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this explains a few things. 

Jeff

[purpledaddy 6]

Originally posted by: Jeff Fiske 

- the Sims are a just a communication vehicle to see how your city functions- and to show you directly- how your city is flowing if you will...

Jeffquote>

 

The MySim is basically a cutesified feedback system in SC4 too.

[Ntq€310 1]

Originally posted by: purpledaddy

Originally posted by: Jeff Fiske 

- the Sims are a just a communication vehicle to see how your city functions- and to show you directly- how your city is flowing if you will...

Jeffquote>

 

The MySim is basically a cutesified feedback system in SC4 too.quote>

 

i agree, but i wonder if that was a pre-cursor to what could happen to the next simcity, there was no reason for my sims in simcity 4, so could it have been the signal that sims was invading, or atleast the people making societies tried, butt failed giving the game enough of either games aspects, and idea's, giving the game barely any support from fans of the game( the people who are not intrested in it, nothing against you who are) or the fans they wanted to get

[KnowitallSim 1]

Well, I love The Sims and SimCity (The Sims 2 for PC is my favorite game ever) but I think Societies looks awful.

So bad...

[Jeff Fiske 0]

A Sim will be born in one location, can be made homeless, move to another location. In general, you can select a Sim and follow him 24/7 until he dies. (Some methods of transport may prevent this, but you can re-sync with the sim via his home.)  If a pick pocket intercepts a Sim and robs him, this affects your city- That Sim loses whatever accessory  was helping keep him happy, he has been delayed and may miss work or get home to late etc. (Depending on the criminal he may be injured as well.)

Overall,  the bustle and grind is meaningful and quite informative- though we give special city displays to help highlight information so you don't have to meander your city looking for it if you want to remain in a strategic mindset.

[rctshack 182]

Jeff Fiske, I am very happy someone from Tilted Mills is actually talking to us and answering a few questions because one of my biggest complaints about this whole sim city Societies situation that came about was the lack of information that was given... and while the game is still have a VERY negative view to many of the Sim City fans, I thought it was a smart move for someone involved with the game to at least communicate with us, mostly because we are 100,000 prospective buyers... truthfully. I find this a positive move from TM.

On that note though... this game seems to have VERY limited game-play... you say:

Originally posted by: Jeff Fiske

If you want to park the camera on the street-corner and watch the daily life, go for it- but the focal point is not to allow you to do this- but to make a real game model that makes this endeavor more than just eye-candy- and making that experience worthwhile to begin with.quote>

I feel like most people buy city building games for that purpose... yes we want a different city than last time... but the main purpose of building a city is making it our own... and with a lack of options, you can't just have different "energies" making the city different... the visual appear has to change also, and not just changing the smog color and making the street candy canes... we want to make the changes ourselves. Skim through every single sim city website you can find and you will find one common theme... people creating custom content to add more originality to the city. You (EA) talk of Sim city 4 being WAY too complicated and too much going on.... well to most sim city players, that's what is appealing.

Originally posted by: Jeff Fiske

Unlike most city-building games, we really wanted the cities to be able to work differently, at the same time be malleable. Sometimes when you play a CB game, once you have played it for a while it always seems like the cities you are building are the same, because you go through the same mental processes to get it going. Come to think of it, often when you play a 'new' city building game for the first time, it feels like you have played it before. We really wanted to help bring something truly different from any CB game before.quote>

What most Sim city players think of when they hear this is "Well this would have been cool... if implemented into an actual sim city game". While this sounds "fancy" and and all, it boils down to 350 buildings divided by 6 (?) societal energies... this makes around 60 buildings per energy. Yes that sounds like a lot... but you are preaching to a crowd to people who have downloaded probably 500 to 1000 buildings that were created off this site and added to our cities, and buildings are still repeating. 60 buildings will come and go fast. Looking though the screenshots, I can see many repeating buildings because unless you have all 6 energies in your city... the amount of buildings at your disposal keeps getting divided. Thinking about this, it would have been a much better idea to be able to plop buildings and choose which energy you want from that building afterwards... but that's not gonna change. I have a very distinct feeling that not many people will agree with that idea that there are unlimited possibilities that would create endless game-play.

Originally posted by: Jeff Fiske

One thing we wanted to do was to address the question- What if I want to make a place that feels like Paris, or Shangra-la? What about Ellis Island NY? What about LA? What about some place I saw in a movie or read in a book at some time? Do these places function differently? Do cops in Amsterdam behave the same way cops in LA behave? This goes beyond architecture, the rules are different in these places. Workdays, law enforcement, it all works differently- can we create a flexible city builder that allowed you to mix and match these principles of how societies create and deal with their problems? quote>

Can we create Hogwartz? Can we actually create Ellis Island? Can we create Cairo? Can we create anything realistic? Once again this is a lot of talking about all these things we can do, but with the screenshots and videos given to us, nothing resembles these. We technically have 6 or so options of extreme types of cities, and you can mix them and kind of mash them together... but major realistic aspects that would actually make a Cairo Egypt seem to be missing. If you show me a screenshot of a Cairo Egypt type city... i will rethink this all... really! I would be MORE than overjoyed to see something like that come from this game... but until then... nice try on the wording.

Originally posted by: Jeff Fiske

It is a creative, flexible, city building game where each city can feel like a society. Since you can build more than one, it becomes societies. At least that is how we see it, and we are working on trying to make this more clear.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this explains a few things.quote>

The easiest and most effective way to male this clear would be to actually answer the questions many people are asking. When TM is silent... it's not going to solve anything. The sad part about this is that if TM /EA had called this game ANYTHING else than Sim City... this would not be happening. I would actually take an interest in this game (sorry, I still wouldn't be buying it... but maybe following the talk because it is still a semi-interesting concept) and would not be arguing with you over the right and wrongs of this game.

Cheesy Analogy Time:

You can't come out with a new peach soda and team up with Coca Cola and call this product Coke. While yes it quite possibly could be a great soda and people will still buy it most likely.... it fundamentally changed a great product that didn't need such a 180 degree change. And while the new soda could sell well and show great profits to the head company because people just grab anything nowadays off the shelf and peach soda sounded interesting to people...... the coca cola drinkers that have been drinking the product for the last 15 years are left high and dry without their favorite product. And why couldn't coke have just released a soda that was peach and call it something else, while still releasing the fan favorite (actual coke) also? Well for the exact same reason this game has the title Sim City on it... because if you name it something familiar... people buy it.

Jeff, you sound like a nice guy, but it will take more than that to win us over. Lets see some real magic from this game. TM still hasn't answered ANY questions about transportation... that's the biggest thing so far. On top of that... many questions about how you actual go about doing many things in this game have been asked, also questions about what you all have actually felt like incorporating from all our wish lists we created for the redesigning. Another major question is if this is a branch off version... or if this is our actual Sim City 5 we have been waiting for.

A little heads up, it may be better for you all to tell us that sim city 5 is in the works also, because a lot of people plan on not buying this game to show that we don't support EA redesigning the game we love without any features we want. If we know they are still planning on making a sim city 5... then a lot of those people may plan on buying both games. And thank you Jeff for actually coming and talking to us, you have bumped TM slightly on my scale. Only slightly though.

[lospantalones 68]

Great post rctshack, I agree with every point you make.  Well put!

[Jeff Fiske 0]

I am happy to answer questions, but we are not discussing map generation, customization 'how to's', and specifics on transportation- yet. (Asking me about moding transportation would be a double whammy- Yes I know this is something many people are interested in, but we try not to get people excited over aspects of the game we can't guarantee we can deliver on.)

Seems like a quick review is in order- Facts only below-

Rod Humble on record saying that this was a bold step and if it does not work out, they will revert to a more traditional urban simulator.

You can choose multiple terrain sets & vegetation- and copy and paste pretty much any ambient in the game. You also can place decorative objects, trees, and landmarks. You are in complete control.

We already have over 350 buildings, this should tell you something about the final release count.

Here is what happens when your society moves to a certain profile. Lighting changes, clipping plain, road textures, road props, some vehicles, many buildings textures, many building props, many building text, music, sky, bridges. 

Clarity here- There has been confusion about 6 societal values. They do not equate to societies directly.  A modern America uses mostly Prosperity and productivity. But each city within may be different.  We have exposed several societies filtered for ease of use when beginning to learn- such as Cyberpunk, Capitalist, Romance (Mid 20th century Europe)..and more. We most recently showed an Industrial/Robber Barron city. This used primarily productivity with some authority & prosperity thrown in. Very little knowledge, as who cares about health care.  The point is not to make some easy to digest cookie cutter template, or force you into a gameplay mechanic that is repetitive- but to blow the whole thing up and let you put it together the way you want. I could take the SimCity buildings and map them across the societal energies- police station authority, factory productivity...etc...

The game will be extremely customizable, we believe by far the most customizable city building game, including rules, actions, attributes and pretty much everything above at ship.

It is not the ultimate urban simulator, that SC4 was and still is- See the first fact bit.

I am not EA. I have never implied that SimCity was way to complicated, or there is too much going on.

Happy to answer questions and I do understand your frustrations, and I am not trying to 'win anyone over'- just explain what was done from TM's perspective, as well as share some of the cooler things that SCS does that no city building game has done before.  I do agree with many points that people have, and as a gamer who cut his teeth on Avalon Hill board games- I understand the fun of simulated realism as well as the pleasure of detailed minutia (I have Harpoon- Paper & pencil as well)- but I also remember profoundly the first time I saw Doom and it was cool.

[WeHeartRoyals 0]

i want to answer the origanal post to this topic. YES! i am a sims fan and i am looking forward to societies! i was actually a sims 2 owner/fan before i was a simcity owner/fan! oh no! how could i? (rolling my eyes)

also, i like that a developer is actually making an effort to get people to actually understand this game. i dont know why some of you people dont understand that when they say the game is (almost) completely costomizable, they meen, THE GAME IS (ALMOST) COMPLETELY COSTOMIZABLE!!!!! Im SURE that meens buildings to!!! 

i live in missouri, and i can tell you, from a "societal perpective" the differences between our largest cities. this game has got me thinking of city building in that perspective. for example, springfield has like 3 large universities, and lord knows how many colleges, and its a town of only 150,000 people. for its size and the number of scools it has, i would say its a knowledge society. kansas city (fabulous, kansas city) would be a wealth/ industry/ devotion city. wealth because over 100,00 people travel downtown to work at a dead end job (but i didnt say that) industry because, well, have you seen what around the missouri river? its all smelly paper mills, factories, and INDUSTRY! the river is way over polluted, and you have to have a nose plug or 10 cans of febreze/ oust just to travel through 435 on the mo side! i REEKS! and devotion because americas heartland is, oh! guess what? FARM LAND! and st. louis i kinda a mix. wealth, knowledge, and devotion. for most of the same reasons as kc and spfd.

so, yeah, im looking forward to the new game, and ill still play the sims! call me crazy, but i want my cities to look/ act different. unlike sc4 where the only way it looks different is if by some chance in heaven a new skyscraper pops up in a city only four times thats not in another city at all! or if i build a city by the water, and another in the hills.

[rctshack 182]

Originally posted by: WeHeartRoyals also, i like that a developer is actually making an effort to get people to actually understand this game. i dont know why some of you people dont understand that when they say the game is (almost) completely costomizable, they meen, THE GAME IS (ALMOST) COMPLETELY COSTOMIZABLE!!!!! Im SURE that meens buildings to!!! quote>

But doesn't that just mean... we are going to make a stripped down version... and if you want anything that was previously in the game.... than feel free to spend months of your own time building it yourself... BUT you still need to pay $50 for the skeleton of the game?

YES... it's customizable... but you can't just customize a game to have zoning... a lot of these things have to be core essencial elements of the game in the first place... and if I am mistaken... someone correct me. But if the game is designed for only one road type, the spacing won't allow for customization to make highways and double decker roads, elevated trains, light rail, and so on.... when they customise, it may be adding different textures and making new buildings.

I am the first to say I wish he would elaborate more when saying "Most Customizable City Building Game Ever"... but that sounds semi-fishy... since it was never mentioned till now. That wording could mean a whole lot of different things and may not even push towards where a lot of feel this game needs improvement.

Originally posted by: WeHeartRoyals i dont know why some of you people dont understand that when they say the game is (almost) completely costomizable, they meen, THE GAME IS (ALMOST) COMPLETELY COSTOMIZABLE!!!!!quote>

And NO we don't understand what that means... since you seem to... please explain... what is customizable in the game? Just saying Customizable doesn't answer anything. That's like me saying "Hey my TV set is completely customizable!!!"... but that doesn't tell you what it does... do i mean the actual TV can change shape and color? Or do I mean I can change the screen to different brightnesses? Or can I actually reprogram the way the TV acts?

VAGUE... that's all we get. Along with... we will talk about these and other features in the future... ok.

If I sound harsh... I'm not trying to... I think when I type online it just comes off that way. I'm actually a very nice person.

[WeHeartRoyals 0]

well, someone stated that most simcity players like a city that they can make their own. or something like that, i didnt really pay attention. but if the developer of the game says the game is extremely costomizable, that make me think there will be a in-game building/game editor. in some interviews they say that you can change the shape of buildings and even combine structures. now please note; I HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF AN IN-GAME EDITOR! IT IS PURELY A HUNCH/SPECULATION. however a preview at ign says thats its not clear whether a building editor will be in the game because its undecided. that makes me think that if we made it clear that we wanted one, or if we asked for one then maybe thell give us one! (?) but again its just a hunch.

also, if the game is extemely customizable then wouldnt it be wierd if we had to get or buy a backbone to a game that they already promesed us? 

but i dont know, and PLEASE expect jeff fiske to come here and totally tell us different, so i cant stress enough that this is just my opinion/ speculation!

but you also say, (and by you i mean rctshack because apperently this is an A-B conversation), something about there is only the roads that weve seen in screenshots, bu tin the scs quetions thread jeff leaks that there are smaller roads. which makes me think that they ARE listening to us and the game will turn out better then the (apperent) majority thinks it will. which is why im trying to keep an open mind/ my chin up/ a stiff upper lip. and dont beleive what any one trys to tell you other then that is HARD WORK! hee hee! lol

also i like that you say your actually a nice person, (again rctshack), cus so am i! im just REALLY really stubborn! hee hee!

[Msprintz 25]

Originally posted by: Jeff Fiske Indeed, we do not think about this game as a Sims games, and to us, at Tilted Mill, 'Societies' means as a plural of an individual city- that takes on a persona.

 

One thing we wanted to do was to address the question- What if I want to make a place that feels like Paris, or  Shangra-la? What about Ellis Island NY? What about LA? What about  some place I saw in a movie or read in a book at some time?  Do these places function differently? Do cops in Amsterdam behave the same way cops in LA behave?  This goes beyond architecture, the rules are different in these places. Workdays, law enforcment, it all works differently- can we create a flexible city builder that allowed you to mix and match these principles of how societies create and deal with their problems?

Jeffquote>

 

It would be all but impossible to create a city with the feel of Ellis Island as it wasn't a city.  Ellis Island was an immigration processing center situated just off of New York, it's sole purpose to screen prospective immigrants before allowing them into the United States.  In serving it's purpose Ellis Island functioned like a prison and to some it was just that.  Those affected most obviously were the poor, they were subjected to physicals; any health problem whatsoever meant being sent home or a long stay at the Islands medical facilites(many would die there).  In some cases people were rejected outright because they were unskilled laborers.  It's estimated that 2% of those prospective immigrants were denied entry and sent back to their countries of origin for reasons ranging from: disease, insanity and criminal background.  

It's nickname's are "isle of Tears" and "Heartbreak Island" because of the 2% not admitted entry.   

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: rctshack

Originally posted by: WeHeartRoyals also, i like that a developer is actually making an effort to get people to actually understand this game. i dont know why some of you people dont understand that when they say the game is (almost) completely costomizable, they meen, THE GAME IS (ALMOST) COMPLETELY COSTOMIZABLE!!!!! Im SURE that meens buildings to!!! quote>

But doesn't that just mean... we are going to make a stripped down version... and if you want anything that was previously in the game.... than feel free to spend months of your own time building it yourself... BUT you still need to pay $50 for the skeleton of the game? quote>

Yes, how terrible it is for a game to be customizable. Just think of all the games that failed and sucked because of it: SC4, Civ3/4, Total War. Terrible, terrible stuff.

I am the first to say I wish he would elaborate more when saying "Most Customizable City Building Game Ever"... but that sounds semi-fishy... since it was never mentioned till now. That wording could mean a whole lot of different things and may not even push towards where a lot of feel this game needs improvement. quote>

It's been mentioned in articles and threads.

This thread is for players of The Sims to tell us what they feel about the new SimCity. Don't go off into half-baked arguments about moddability.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Originally posted by: JanYpe Yes, how terrible it is for a game to be customizable. Just think of all the games that failed and sucked because of it: SC4, Civ3/4, Total War. Terrible, terrible stuff.quote>

As always, you are seeing everything in black and white only and trying to ridicule others and provoke wherever you can. You really seem to be enjoying your role as The Official SCS Defender...

However, I regard this as a quantitative and not a qualitative issue. The question is not "customization yes or no?", the question is "how much will there be in a game by default, and how much will we be able to customize?"

A game that offers many possibilities and playing enjoyment AND has the bonus of being highly customizable is certainly something good.

A game that offers many possibilities, but lacks the option of adding more may make you wish it was more customizable.

However, a game where the programmers have visibly limited their efforts to the utmost minimum and hope that the players will do their job (while, of course, charging full price for the game) smells a bit fishy...

I reckon the games you mentioned (haven't played all of them) already offered enough from the start, and the wish for more customization arose from a feeling of enjoying the game and being so enthusiastic about it that you just wish to make it even better. Gaming companies can even calculate with this effect, but only up to a certain point, I think. At the latest when the players get the impression that the company relied too much on them and made too little effort itself, things start turning towards the unpleasant side...

Of course, it's too early to tell into which category SCS will fall eventually, but it's always early enough to express a general concern about a gaming company relying too heavily on the users.

Some online communities built on the contributions of their users have already had to face discontent and anger whenever the users felt that the company wasn't returning the user contributions appropriately, e.g. by treating the users well in return for the fact that it's the users that make the platform attractive - no users, nothing interesting there. The same could happen to a game where the players feel left alone. It's a general issue and worth mentioning IMHO.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: T Wrecks

Originally posted by: JanYpe Yes, how terrible it is for a game to be customizable. Just think of all the games that failed and sucked because of it: SC4, Civ3/4, Total War. Terrible, terrible stuff.quote>

As always, you are seeing everything in black and white only and trying to ridicule others and provoke wherever you can. You really seem to be enjoying your role as The Official SCS Defender...

quote>

It was just a stupid joke. I think it's silly to automatically assume the worst. Saying with dead certainty that the game must be stripped down, when it's pointed out that the game will be customizable, doesn't make any more sense than saying that the game will be the best ever after seeing one screenshot. Because we don't actually have the details yet. It can go either way, like you said in your own post.

 What I took from it was simple reassurance towards the communities who care very much about the possibilities they would have, where a lot of people were afraid that they were going to be saddled with an easy, closed, cash grabbing game.

But do please explain how my pointing out that one short sentence from a developer, who might be tied by an NDA, doesn't necessarily  mean the end of the world (without so much as disagreeing with any of the posts) is the same as "ridiculing and provoking."

[Albatross Domain 2]

I will have to agree with some, although only a very fortunate few knows what and how the game runs, the rest of us won't know for awhile yet...

[rctshack 182]

Originally posted by: mks24 It would be all but impossible to create a city with the feel of Ellis Island as it wasn't a city.  Ellis Island was an immigration processing center situated just off of New York, it's sole purpose to screen prospective immigrants before allowing them into the United States.quote>

i thought the exact same thing. I didn't know if it would be rude to tell Jeff that or not. It would be like saying "Build the city of your dreams... Paris... New Tork... Alcatraz"

[gabry85 2]

Originally posted by: Jeff Fiske

It is not the ultimate urban simulator, that SC4 was and still is- See the first fact bit.

quote>

Originally posted by: Jeff Fiske

One thing we wanted to do was to address the question- What if I want to make a place that feels like Paris, or  Shangra-la? What about Ellis Island NY? What about LA? What about  some place I saw in a movie or read in a book at some time?  Do these places function differently? Do cops in Amsterdam behave the same way cops in LA behave?

quote>

Would you release further expansion packs for making this game more SC-like? Honestly, I like this new challenge about societies, but I do enjoy to build my own neighborhoods as something of mine, something that I built myself proudly.

A Society, IMO, is influenced in the architecture of the city itself: e.g. in L.A. people is influenced by Hollywood, the sunny beaches and the freeways; in NYC by commerce, the historical buildings, multiethnicity and so on.

So, as I said before, I do welcome your perspective, but I think combining new ideas with the old ones would be a winning formula, don't you?

Please, keep in mind this, thank you for you time and courtesy.

[rctshack 182]

Originally posted by: JanYpe It was just a stupid joke. I think it's silly to automatically assume the worst. Saying with dead certainty that the game must be stripped down, when it's pointed out that the game will be customizable, doesn't make any more sense than saying that the game will be the best ever after seeing one screenshot. Because we don't actually have the details yet. It can go either way, like you said in your own post.quote>

I think it's foolish of you to do the opposite. For you to think that this game has the ability to flip a 180 and have the features we all want by it's release. Have you looked at the screenshots? Any of the 50? To me, looking ot those, along with hearing the lady talk for 30 minutes in the video, made me come to the conclusion that this game didn't aquire much depth. We didn't AUTOMATICALLY assume, it's been a month and a lot has surfaced.

Originally posted by: JanYpe But do please explain how my pointing out that one short sentence from a developer, who might be tied by an NDA, doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world (without so much as disagreeing with any of the posts) is the same as "ridiculing and provoking."quote>

I don't blame Jeff... I actually commend him for being the ONE person to come over here and try to clear things up... but just because he does... doesn't resolve my beef with TM and EA for what they are doing to this game. If we all just sat back and waited for this game to be released... there would be no changes towards what the fans want in the final release, but the more time and effort I put into arguing that this game needs certain things and needs to get rid of others.... then there is a SLIGHT chance those things could be incorperated before this game comes out. Do we not have the senior programmer joining this thread with us??? Why am I not allow to say what I feel is right and wrong about this game?

Maybe in your world JanYpe you see this being the great sequel in the sim city series... but most of us feel this is nowhere near the point of living up to the name Sim City... and I will keep pushing until it's release to prove that to EA.

[rctshack 182]

Originally posted by: gabry85 So, as I said before, I do welcome your perspective, but I think combining new ideas with the old ones would be a winning formula, don't you? quote>

I 100% agree.

[JanYpe 17]

Do we not have the senior programmer joining this thread with us??? Why am I not allow to say what I feel is right and wrong about this game? quote>

Sure you are. But this programmer is a grown man who has managed to visit other threads before, I'm quite sure he could locate a new thread. In my innocence I thought that it might be smarter to have a reasonably important discussion like this in it's own thread, where it would be more easily be found by everyone than in a thread that's supposedly about how much SCS is going to be like the Sims. Which is why I said: "Hay guys, remember the original topic? ". (Which was a terrible provocation, as was kindly pointed out to me) I was posting in a hurry and thought people would get the hint that this is not something we want to bury in a thread that's barely been getting noticed by the general public.

Despite what everyone seems to think, I haven't actually expressed my opinion of this game in this or any other recent thread. All I've wanted to express so far that is we'll learn a lot more if we let cooler heads prevail.

(If anyone wants to come visit me in my world we can crack open some beers and we'll make a party out of it. It'll be wicked! )

[John-SJ 13]

I think it's foolish of you to do the opposite. For you to think that this game has the ability to flip a 180 and have the features we all want by it's release. Have you looked at the screenshots? Any of the 50? To me, looking ot those, along with hearing the lady talk for 30 minutes in the video, made me come to the conclusion that this game didn't aquire much depth. We didn't AUTOMATICALLY assume, it's been a month and a lot has surfaced.quote>

A couple of points.  First, screenshots are great for conveying how a game will look, but even at that they are limited.  They are, after all, only static images.  They utterly fail in trying to convey anything, positive or negative about gameplay.  And in the end, while nice graphics are, well, nice, even the best graphics won't cover poor gameplay, and  poor graphics can be overlooked to some extent anyway, if the gameplay really shines.

Second,  we have been warned by the TM devs not to place too much stock in the videos, they are old, and much has changed or been improved upon.  The videos that have made the rounds are pre-alpha.  They may give some indication of flavor, but any assumptions that are made based on them are likely to be pretty flimsy assumptions, at best.

I'm not coming here saying this game is the best thing since sliced bread, I don't even know for sure that I will buy it yet, currently I am tending towards yes, but a lot can change between now and November. 

[Albatross Domain 2]

When, the first few Static images of SM:S, and the news of this "SimCity Reborn" article came out in May/June, I was very concerned, that this may as well not fall in line with SimCity as we know it. It's unknown how many hours and talent used, had gone into a game such as SC4 over the past nearly 5 years, If it remains true that SC:S, IS truly customizable, they many of the ppl who are still hardcore SC4 players, may glance at it when it comes out. It won't be as much like when SC2k went to the style SC3k, but it was indeed refreshing, because it improved from one into the other. We won't truly find out, what SC:S is like until October or so. While we wait we can only speculate, and pray the game can remain as challenging as SC4 (or any of its predecessors) did before. SCx, SC2k, Sc3k, SC4, were all successful iotas of one each other, many ppl's lives has changed over the past 18+ years bc of SimCity, especially in the world of safety, and in the world of architecture, many artists and even some politicians gave to rise, because of their ideas based on a "simple" game.

here's are some links related to the relation of SimCity, and how they influence all cities AND societies in the past:

www.americancity.org/

Government Simulation Games

http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal

www.mises.org/

J-Stor: American Sociological Association

another article about Sim City from the UK:

SimCity: TOY or TOOL?

this is only a few examples of what we are really pining for.

[Albatross Domain 2]

soz, for the double post I did forget one, that may as well link: SimCity (x thru 4) with Societies

EGov Monitoring out of UK