Reaction is Overwheliming Negative

[schm0 27]

So, to summarize, here are the questions being asked, plus an extra one I'd love to hear feedback on:

Do a favor for me. Visit any gaming magazine or ezine (not a SimCity forum) and scroll through the news articles they have on SCS. Most allow a small place for comments. Scroll through those comments, and you'll notice one thing: The opinion is overwhelmingly negative.

What does this mean?

Is this negative reaction just from a bunch of whiny fans who are disappointed? Or could it be that our gripes are shared by fans of the series that aren't as hardcore?

If this game were going to do well, wouldn't it have an equal amount (if not more) of a positive commentary?

Can anyone make some historical connections between the reaction to this game as compared to other previous incarnations of a successful franchise? I have seen people compare this reaction to that of Civilization IV... have we seen this phenomenon before? What were the outcomes of that reaction?

Offer your opinions and reactions here.

I will be doing an informal poll of the comments posted and quickly scroll through them and check them off as negative, positive, or indifferent (wait and see.) I'll post the results here and see what it all means. If anyone wants to beat me to the punch and do a quick survey of all the comments on outside gaming sites (not forums) let me know

_{(I'm not going to bother doing this, as nobody so far disagrees with the basic premise, so let's just discuss the topic.)}

[gshmails 534]

There is one truth about trying to analyze reactions.....The negative comments will always dominate.  People who feel negatively feel more compunction to speak out, while those who are happy or ok will not.  If they do, they are quickly drowned out by outrage.  This is just what happens. 

Is there more outrage than usual, yes.  Are there many people who are intrigued by the new concepts, yes.  I think that there have been many positive comments here, but they either get ignored or flamed, so those people stop commenting.  Thus, the reaction looks almost completely one sided. 

Just my observation of the situation

Shmails

[John-SJ 13]

You make a very good point gshmails.  Why would anyone who has any sort of positive response to what TM is doing with SC:S bother to respond in light of all the negativity, flames, or disregarding that they see happening to those who do respond?

I find myself asking this question a lot!

I love SC4, but it is not the only game or game style that I enjoy.  I see potential with SC:S, a lot of it, TBH, but expressing any of that around here is apparently a huge waste of my energy.  I am sure others feel the same.

So, what can the detractors of SC:S expect?  Maybe they feel justified in their feelings because they have effectively drowned out (or ignored) all voices that do not match their own.

They may find themselves more than  a little surprised once SC:S hits the stores.  If that happens, it will be interesting to see how (or if) sites such as Simtropolis adapt.

[Mr. Flibble 134]

Chalk it up to seeing one of the most deep sims still left on the market being turned into a silly gimmick-riddled game that throws realism out the window. I don't live in a "fun city" or an oppressive "Orwellian city" or a "wealth city" with a downtown of big multi-story towers. I can most likely no longer build a decent model of my home town with this game without needing to plop in whatever passes for peaceful buildings, none of which will exist here in reality. This version could add nothing to SC4 but taking it 3D and it would be just fine with me. Do I care about zoning garbage plots and laying pipes? Not reallly, but so much more has been tossed from this version in favor of social nonsense that does not really have any bearing in planning and building a city.

[Spinmaster 75]

Yeah I'm not sure what new info is to be gained from such a poll, negative comments always overwhelm positive in just about any subject, let alone a game with a long-established fan base. I'm not so sure about positive comments being flamed though, occasionally by some immature folks, yes, but not too much. Ignored? Eh... more like simply shouted-over by the negative commentary. Then comes the question, how much positive is there to say about it? No, I don't mean that from a cynical perspective, I mean how many features do we know about that DO exist for people to say "I really like because _____..."? A lot has been said about a "totally new experience." But the bulk of people paying attention to the news about SC:S are long-timers who don't really want a totally new experience, they want to go forward with the current experience, not take a sudden left turn. Are there masses "out there" who would love SC:S, because they've never really gotten into the "too complex" past of Sim City, and this new direction would appeal to them? Maybe... ok, I'll even say probably. But they're not here, and not paying attention to the news. Why should they? They have no stake in the series anyway. EA will have to do a major marketing blitz to get the word out to them. Then we'll find out how well-received it is by those folks.... or not.

I agree with John-SJ that Sim Societies may have potential to be a good game unto itself, and I've seen many objective posts stating so as well, most just seem to object the idea that it's really a Sim City game. I don't think it's wrong for the detractors to be speaking their minds on the matter, however (provided they do so maturely, and don't engage in personal attacks). Many have bought into the franchise since its inception, and are more than slightly miffed SC:S is deliberately - by its own proud admission - changing the game's direction. I don't know how much surprise there can be, actually... EA has already stated publicly about many of the major differences in SC:S, not to mention the E3 video. Some who are open to the new style will still try it, and may indeed be surprised to love it, or hate it. But some have heard enough already. To each their own.

[Pixelrage 34]

Originally posted by: Spinmaster Then comes the question, how much positive is there to say about it? quote>

That's what I was thinking. Seeing that video doesn't really give someone a reflex to quickly type "whoa, that's awesome!!!1" since it's nothing but the same old thing everyone has already seen with City Life, but at a much more sub-standard level.

It was different with Spore. I think almost everyone who saw the very early demo video was floored over it, because it was unlike anything you've seen before.

[DARKO 3]

The video looked good. I'm not sure why it didn't.

I see SCS having potential.

Alot of this is young kinds spouting out overwhelmingly premature negative reactions. And yes, it is premature until you play the game. I got pissed one day only because of the lack of straight forward answers by TM. Once I saw the video though I noticed the feel of the game has potential. AS long as its moddable we can take it from there. I mean we essentially did this with SC4. SC4 was pretty crap straight out of the box. I'm sorry. It was. In fact I rearely played it until about a year afer its relsease. We as a community shaped it into a realistic urban simulator. None of these games started out as realisitc anyhting. We used their Bat's and modded them to make them the way we wanted them. We'll do the same for SCS. I'm not sure why this is any different.

[gshmails 534]

This is an example of what I stated earlier.  What about those who love the Sims?  Or Citylife?  Or Caesar 4?  They might say there is alot of positives, but they won't because of comments made against those platforms.  I loved Roller Coaster Tycoon 3, and have seen many people using it as a reference to insult this new game.  Why would I want to say that I like that it looks like another game I love when everyone is bashing that game as well? 

[Cjah 15]

Since when is SC4 Deluxe crap out of a box...I'll admit...SC4 and RH by themselves suck...but put it together and you have a very fun and replayable game...

I'd like to see SCS top SC4's replayable nature...

Also...I notice you saying alot of the YOUNG people bad mouth this game...

alot of the comments I read are imature but the other half are by mature/seasoned SimCity players..

.people like you and me Darko.,...people who stick to a series for more then ten years...those people are the majority of the negative comments...

[DARKO 3]

Well your right Cjah.

Of couse alot of seasoned guys are pissed. I just meant I've seen alot of younger guys spout off in a...well.....more bratty way. Those are the complaints that are getting old and tired. Instead of just saying OMGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this sucks, I'd like to see a little more indepth take on why they think it sucks. It's the one who havn't been around long enough to see how things like this unfold. Too much jumping off from the bridges way to early. Thats all.

Also I did mean Sc4 vanilla, not with Rush hour or deluxe. Obviously deluxe is pretty good, but still without alot of the mods the community has made I wouldn't play even deluxe straight out of the box. I would be missing too many great custom content buildings and aweseome mods. I think SCS will be much better in time, whether thru the community or expansion packs. I guess if anything it looks as if they will be a tad more devoted to this game than they were with SC4. At least one hopes.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

There are positive comments, but for every positive comment, 20 of them rip the game to shreds. I can't think of a popular franchise with a strong fanbase that's been overwhelming against a project or game.

On the other hand, even the most popular franchises like Halo, Grand Theft Auto, Smash Bros., and The Sims have their haters, sometimes fueled by fanboyism, but there are people that just don't care for the gameplay or the style. SCS probably has a number of supporters, but those people are mostly silent and are overwhelmed by the vocal SimCity hardcores that rule the forums.

[chodes 0]

Looking at the available screen shots and reading about the new version of Sim City makes me wonder if buying the STEX collection disks is a better investment. I really enjoy this game and wonder a few new features will be adequate enough to continue playing this version. On that note, would it be possible to get an updated version of the STEX collections? Maybe including some of the currently uploaded mods and files.

[opbravo 0]

well, to answer schm0's original question, i would say that i'm quite indifferent (wait and see). while i personally don't like the direction the franchise is going, i tend to reserve judgment of video games until it's released and reviewed by many different video game sources.

i agree with others when they say that the majority of comments will be negative in nature because people who are opposed to something will be more likely to voice their opinions than if they were in favor or neutral. however, i personally would want to hear/read about what people think are positives of the game because i like to see both sides of the story.

however, i will share this one opinion i have. Cjah brought up a great point when it comes to replayablitiy. while all games eventually wear out their novelty and get pushed aside, i feel that SC:S will reach this point much more quickly than previous simcity games. while i think the social aspects and interactions could potentially be intriguing, i feel in the end it will be the replayability factor that might limit the overall appeal of the game. but i'm sure the game will find its share of fans.

[Lightning War 1]

Originally posted by: The_Dalai_Llama There are positive comments, but for every positive comment, 20 of them rip the game to shreds. I can't think of a popular franchise with a strong fanbase that's been overwhelming against a project or game.

On the other hand, even the most popular franchises like Halo, Grand Theft Auto, Smash Bros., and The Sims have their haters, sometimes fueled by fanboyism, but there are people that just don't care for the gameplay or the style. SCS probably has a number of supporters, but those people are mostly silent and are overwhelmed by the vocal SimCity hardcores that rule the forums.quote>

 

I am one of those supporters, and I am not going quiet until this community shuts it's mouth and wait for what happens next!

[dabadon5 295]

ok ok. the reason why it has a negative reaction is becuase people were expectiong a great, new , fun, and yet similiar game. yet all we see is this cartoon nicklelodeon looking happy meal little city. simcity 4 is far more realistic than simcity socities. i can tell u i wont enjoy the game based on what i have seen so far.

i still have hope for Spore

[spa 968]

I don't think negative comments drown out positive comments when it comes to something like this and that's because Sim City's a hobby that people have already madea time committment to. Since people are already here they're likely to participate. Let me explain my point by an anology. 

Take public hearings in municipal politics (say it's a zoning variance). Generally the only people that come speak at these things are those with an axe to grind and that's because going to them requires time and effort which, if you're happy about something, you're not going to exert. That's not the situation that we have in asking the community what they think of the new Sim City. Since we're all here anyway and have already made that intial time investment, asking us what we think is like holding a public hearing during an urban planning conference. Interested, obsessed people are already there in the room! 

Yes the people who are mad are going to be louder, but so will the ones who're really excited.... The fact that the vast majority of comments are negative or luke-warm can't be dismissed as just complainers being more motivated to express themselves. I think that explanation fits a lot of the time but not here. Instead, here we have a genuine case of fan revolt.

[north country dude 202]

If my personal opinion about what SimCity:Societies is turning out to be, is considered childish or immature, even though I have always stated that my opinions are based on the press releases and screen shots presented, then I will have to say; "aaaack thhbbbbth!"

Seriously, giving and qualifying my personal opinions is allowed. Using the quotes from the actual press releases and showing how if these are what will be on the final products packaging, it is not a game that I would buy, is also allowed, just so long as it is not inflammatory, outrightly rude, or in conflict with the rules of this site.

Also, how is it that a personal opinion about this product being geared toward children, based on the interviews, press releases, and posted screen shots from the game, is considered immature? Isn't it the purpose of these things to attract and inform people about an upcoming release? To let the potential buyer know what's coming before it hits the shelves and he opens his or her wallet?

Whether or not the dissatisfied audience's replies are childish and melodramatic, or well thought out, the main point and questions many seem to be missing here is; Why are there so many dissatisfied potential customers? Why aren't the press releases and interviews generating a more positive anticipation for the new release from the Sim City fan base?

I will not disagree that there are some people that are eagerly awaiting the release of SimCity:Societies, but it is becoming more and more apparent from the replies that a majority of the fans here are dissatisfied and disappointed. It shouldn't matter as much whether the disappointment is expressed childishly and with a certain amount of melodrama, but that there is so much disappointment with this new release. If the people who present positive reactions to the upcoming release of SC:S here are being "shouted down", show me where this is happening,  really,  give some examples.

Personally, I do not, and have never blamed the developer Tilted Mill for this poor interpretation of what the mainstream Sim City fan wants. I have and will continue to say; "Based on the press releases, interviews, and posted screen shots, do not think this game is geared toward the mainstream Sim City fan. You are welcome to disagree, but it still doesn't make me want to buy the dang thing. It doesn't matter that it hasn't been released yet, from what I've seen so far, there is nothing there that interests me."

I'll add this, "There isn't that much potential seen in the press releases, interviews, screen shots, or whatever the current marketing hype is, that influences me to spend $50-$60 on the thing just to try it out."

If you want to see a predominately larger positive reaction to SC:S, you will find it at the Tilted Mills forums for sure. There are a lot of negative reactions there also, but there the positive and "wait and see" reactions outweigh the negative. You might ask why this is, and I will say that most of the fans there don't view it the same way that the hardcore SC4 fan here might.

I don't mind SC4, I rather like it. When something better comes along, I might buy it. So far, SimCity:Societies isn't what I'm looking for. That's just one potential customer's point of view.

[cirugo 1,889]

Absolutely agree with everything North Country Dude just said

[Pixelrage 34]

Originally posted by: north country dude Also, how is it that a personal opinion about this product being geared toward children, based on the interviews, press releases, and posted screen shots from the game, is considered immature? Isn't it the purpose of these things to attract and inform people about an upcoming release? quote>

of course...but for some reason, I guess certain people's brains 'click' and turn on to defensive mode, and they feel they have to rebel against the masses and profess their excitement for this game (which I really find to be phony...and if you really are interested in this game, I have a shiny piece of tin foil you might be interested in).

I guess the bottom line is that everyone has their own opinion. From an artistic and strategic standpoint, this game doesn't cut it whatsoever. Maybe they are trying to market it to 3-6th graders - I don't know. If that's the case, they'll do well. They just can't expect to get the big 18-25 market with something so ridiculous.

[yamaneko 2]

An overwhelming negative reaction on a forum from a fanbase for the new version of a product is unusual and bodes poorly for Tilted Mills. Neverwinter Nights 2 was greeted rapturously by the Neverwinter Nights fanbase. When The Sims 2 announces its expansion, its fans tend to drool over the new features (though some duly bemoan that they have to part with yet more cash.)

If the urbsurbis group is any indication, the Sim City fanbase is well-larded with developers, programmers and political junkies. The journey from Sim City 4/Rush Hour to urban models for academicians and urban planners is not large. In some cases, it does not exist at all. Imagine asking professional meteorologists and amateur storm chasers to dispense with satellites, computer models and observations in favor of reading clouds and consulting their aunt's rheumatism for the daily forecast. Such an endeavor would not meet with success.

[EgoBruiser 0]

There are positive comments, but for every positive comment, 20 of them rip the game to shreds. I can't think of a popular franchise with a strong fanbase that's been overwhelming against a project or game.quote>

This is a new one for me as well.  I recall there being some negative comments directed toward The Sims Online when it was announced, but that was really a different situation since it was just a spin-off rather than a replacement/sequel.

In all my years of gaming, I can't recall a game getting this kind of overwhelmingly negative reception before its released.  Usually the reaction to a newly-announced game from a major publisher is positive.  Opinions may change after the game has been released, but the official announcement of a new game should generate excitement and anticipation even if the game turns out to be a dud.

The announcement of SimCity: Societies has been a P.R. disaster for EA and Tilted Mill.  I don't think it could be described in any other way.

[vilbe 6]

nothing is more scary than the unknown. and if its not known, its instantly first reaction bad. which is kinda what the SimCity fanbase has done to Societies...

hey we're getting 3-D, some new views, and an overall new spin on a series thats been done over again. this is something new, so here it goes..

we're giving societies some big publicity though, EA and TM realize this. they love us for this. even if 90% of it is bashing the game, its making a buzz throughout the community. people will buy it still to see if its as bad as they thought, and EA and TM realize that the ball is in their court to change our minds..

[EgoBruiser 0]

we're giving societies some big publicity though, EA and TM realize this. they love us for this. even if 90% of it is bashing the game, its making a buzz throughout the community. people will buy it still to see if its as bad as they thought, and EA and TM realize that the ball is in their court to change our minds..quote>

I'd have to disagree with you on this one.  If people expect a game to be bad, they're not going to be in a hurry to buy it and risk wasting their money.  They'll wait around for some reviews to come out and then make a final decision.  That's what I do when there's a game I'm interested in but I'm unsure if it's one I'd actually enjoy.

Contrary to the old saying, there is such a thing as bad publicity.  I can't see how the initial reaction to the game's announcement could in any way be seen as a positive for EA and Tilted Mill.

[J0nnD0ugh 31]

You have to ask yourself: Why is EA walking the road they are taking? They think a simpler game will bring in new fans & sell more than a game that appeals to the established fan base. They are gambling the chips in hand for a potential bigger pot. IMO, their hand isn't good enough to take the entire pile & they are about to go bust.

[checkguy 0]

I got really into SimCity back SC2k was new. I played it for hundreds of hours. The first time I saw a screen shot for SC3K I was blown away and bought it the first day it came out. When I first saw screen shots of SC4 I was blown away and bought it the first day it came out. When I first saw screen shots of SC Societies and read about the features (or lack-there-of) I wanted to curl up in a ball and cry. This is so unbelievably frustrating. Sim City lost its soul with this release. It's not a simulator anymore. It's a cheap gimmick.

[DARKO 3]

The thing is there's this thing called accountability, and credibility while were at it. People hold you to it. If you are going to act like a whiny 12 year old brat kid whenever things don't go your way, you better damn well be ready to own up to it when the time comes. Or in this case, the Final Product, which I might add in this case is months and months away from us seeing. You might very well be correct. I just don't see why it is necessary to be so cutthroat at this point in time. It's extremely unwarranted. Since your so sure of your convictions I don't want to see you liking the game then when it comes out. Deal?? Because you know doing so would be a Hyprocrite....right?

You can be pissed to your little hearts desire, but have you ever considered you are being naive and quite frankly highly unreasonable?? You haven't even seen the freaking demo of the game and know very little about the specifics of it yet. I mean Christ have a little dignity. Its just a freaking game after all. The funny thing is, most of you screaming bloody murder WILL ACTUALLY LIKE THE GAME MOST LIKELY!!!!! You will then all accountability and credibility when this happens. This is why I'm LMAO because I have seen it again and again and again and again......

This is what I mean by some of you lacking foresight or ingenuity. Its all instaneous primal reaction to something you in all honesty know very little about.

I'm pissed about certain aspects of which this franchise is going, but what do I have to gain by continually making tiresome rants? You might as well sit back and see what happens in time. I mean Christ, what do you have to lose? Especially when I'm constantly hearing people say it looks childish and nickelodeon-ish. When the fact IS ALL PREVIOUS SIMCITY VERSIONS WERE AT BEST CARTOONISH AND UNREALISITC. Why is this one so different? People you lost your precious zones and water pipe laying abilities this gives you a free pass to let everything drop? My god cry me a fricking river. Get over it and accept it. Try to make it a better game. We did it to SC3 and SC4, I don't see why it can't happen again if give the proper tools.

If your going to complain at least have a valid complaint and realize the very same things you are complaining about were SAID ABOUT Virtually EVERY OTHER SIMCITY INCARNATION PRIOR. This is why I seriously wonder if many here are even old enough to remember when SC4 was released, because based on what I have seen I would have to give a resounding NO.

The thing is people on here somehow truly believe they are owed something. It to me points out what a me me society this has become. Is unnecessary premature backlash as acceptable as it has shown here? It seems most of you have a very low threshold for having patience and waiting things out. You drown out reason and rational argue, and enjoy lounging in your own gluttony and misery of shouting about things that aren't going perfectly your way. I don't see this level of backlash as being this warranted, I see selfishness and a sense of what is owed to oneself. Your not owed crap in this life. Always remember that. The sooner you understand that the easier it will be for you to overcome things when they don't go your way.

It does look childish and immature. When other things in life don't go the way you planned is this the way your going to react?? Well I got news for ya ALOT OF THINGS WILL NOT GO AS PLANNED. Reserve your anger and complaining for that day your really going to need it, not over some stupid game. Many complain about the game being for 5 year olds and I say to myself how that's pretty ironic if you ask me. Maybe they truly are listening........

Of course I'll get pegged naturally as a fanboy of the game. When in all reality I'm just as pissed as some of you but show a more uncanny ability to adjust and get over things. I may be being harsh but i think I speak for many when I say this has gotten to a sickening point. I've sat and listened to all all of your BS so you can now listen to mine. Fair enough? That's the way I look at it.

This whole ordeal has reminded me of when other people of "undesirable" backgrounds move into ones neighborhood. You know the type of balls out reactionary reaction you get. "Life is going to end as we know it agghhhhhh!!!!!!". It just makes me laugh a little, that's all.

[DARKO 3]

of course...but for some reason, I guess certain people's brains 'click' and turn on to defensive mode, and they feel they have to rebel against the masses and profess their excitement for this game (which I really find to be phony...and if you really are interested in this game, I have a shiny piece of tin foil you might be interested in).

I guess the bottom line is that everyone has their own opinion. From an artistic and strategic standpoint, this game doesn't cut it whatsoever. Maybe they are trying to market it to 3-6th graders - I don't know. If that's the case, they'll do well. They just can't expect to get the big 18-25 market with something so ridiculous.quote>

...or I guess for some reason certain peoples brains "click" and turn from to a independent thinker to one who follows the other herd into sheep oblivion. Gasp!, some people might actually have the foresight to not overreact!!  Aren't you the ones who think its "cool" to rebel against the unknown? 

You right. People who have a mind of their own and are willing to give this game at least a chance are such posers. What a bunch of idiots. Why can't they be like everyone else and jump to mostly baseless assumptions?

Wow. The true colors of this board come out more and more with each passing day. No wonder why so many have left.

[DARKO 3]

double post

[Sim_BOB 2]

There are already two demos on you tube. I don't like the fact that there are hover cars, floating traffic signs and tree houses either. I can already say now, that I will not enjoy this game as much as Sim City 4. The only good part, in my eyes, is that you can basically run your city like Hitler, which is probably what I will end up doing for four years until maxis makes a better Sim City 5. I'm going to check it out though, because it seems a lot easier to make a big sky scraping city, which is always fun. I do think tilted mills ruined a great opportunity to maintain the dignity and complexity of a very special franchise. They did choose a more fiscally rewardable by creating the game for a different demographic, whether they admit to it or not. Which makes a lot of sense, but is also extremely disappointing. I see that they have made two previous games prior to Sim City Societies, all of which look contendable to the game. The graphics are definitely substandard and don't look up to par even to SC4 graphics which was made four years ago. It Is a huge disappointment to people who waited four years for a more complex and more fun Sim City 5, and now they will have to wait another four. I'm not saying the game won't be fun, I'm just saying it won't be Sim City. That's what is upsetting this community the most, I think. And nobody at Titled Mills is denying it. Someone from the company posted on their forums about how it is not a realistic city simulator, or something along those lines. And that is exactly what Sim City is. A realistic simulation of a city or cities. I also don't think that Tilted Mill even knows a thing or two about Sim City 4. The lady in the you tube videos said that in the previous game you could only make one kind of city, which is their excuse, more or less, to go in a new direction. This leads me to believe they haven't played Sim City 4 much, or even at all. You can make farm towns, megalopolises[sic], industrial boom towns, neighborhoods... etc. There is so much variety in Sim City 4 that they must have overlooked. People are out their with their game from four years ago recreating New York City, Japan, Boston, Los Angeles, and other places around the world, and they are documenting it. I really feel like as a community we have been let down regarding any kind of positive transgressions. A fun game? Maybe. Sim city? Definitely not.

[Gecks_II 0]

I donno what to say. 

Hugely disapointed? YES.

I can see why EA wants to simplify the next SC release. Look at SIMS! its simple and hugely popular! But thats it!  Heck, even Spore is following the same formula. Maybe EA thinks that by simplifying SC, it will enable them to get a larger base. But I see there being one problem, the main Sim Fans adore the SC franchise for its pursuite of realism and to an extent complexity. And with every version we have been given deeper more developped depth. 

Now, I do agree that for the "new" guy it probably comes accross as overwhelming. And the argument could be made that SC could be simplified. But frankly, I think they would of been much better off going the way of giving the player a scalable approach to control, and let an AI control the rest, for the new guy, and for the hardcore simcity fan, let him have full control! 

I also think it is to an extent a "slap" in the face to many members of this community, because of the effort and time and how far many members have pushed the envelope of what SC4 could do! I mean we almost have gotten to the point of creating a hybrid SC4/SC5.

We have raised the bar high, very high in terms of quality, of what we expect and want. And I think we all expect SC5 to atleast meet those high standards, if not exceed them (even by just a bit).

And frankly, if they had just expanded just a bit and polished up some of the main features of SC4, threw in some new graphics and effects, given us 3D, and opened up the game for easier modding, I think we would have ALL been hugelly satisfied! and exicted! Add the scalable control and you'd even get the new guy to like it and play it! -and eventually challenge himself to take more control.

Instead they changed the formula, slapped cartoon all over it, took some CityLife formulas and mixed it in, and slapped SimCity on it and DONE. 

And perhaps, that was there only mistake, was slapping the SC title on it like that. Because, it doesnt fit into the SC franchise. Its not an forward iteration of the SC franchise, its a whole new set up. 

I will follow SCS developement, and if they have a demo try it out. But unlike all the other SC, (all the way back to SC on SNES when I was like 5) I wont jump on it right away and buy it the day it comes out. And I will hold judgement for now, but as things stand, I feel a bit insulted and let down by what EA has done, but who can blame them, its the $$ that counts for them. If they blow off the whole current SC community, salvage a few and grow a larger base, to them, they succeeded.

All I can say, is, unless EA plans a surprise SC5 from Maxis, before or just after this game releases, Another Studio, like the Monte Carlo, might be able to scoop up alot of gamers if they push out a CL or the leaked City Unlimited, that appeals more to SC players then SCS does.

sorry for the long post