Residential "dead" point

[Evil Weasel 88]

I donno about you, but honestly in every city I've made there comes a point where no new residential zones are developed, and I'm forced to just go to higher density. I can zone all I want in perfect places (and I mean perfect, jobs, schools, short commute), but almost no new buildings will be built at all. I have more jobs than people now, but still when I try to expand the city all I have is green residential zones and no buildings, even if commercial and industrial zones are developing on the outskirts along side them.

This happens to EVERY city I've ever done on a large map. At least a quarter of the map is never ever filled because of this dead point I hit at around 30-40 000 population. Is there any way to get around this?

[offgreen 1]

I'll bring up the obvious in taxes. I've almost never had that happen even in 200k cities some tax lowering and bordering cities usually fix anything. Maybe someone has a more in dept answer.

[Evil Weasel 88]

Taxes are puny, 4.3.

But yeah my city's in a vaccuum (one small neighbour and nothing else). Is this the problem? I don't know since sometimes I've had cities with tonnes of neighbours and still no growth.

[Teddah 1]

You've hit your demand caps.

All developer types - R, C, and I of all wealth levels - have a cap beyond which no development can occur, unless you do things to raise them.  For Industrial and Commercial, you do this by adding neighbor connections.  For Residential, you do this through parks.  Small parks raise the cap a little bit, larger ones raise it more, and many rewards serve to raise your cap.  The stadiums, in particular, raise your medium residential cap significantly.  I'm sure somewhere on this site is a detailed index of all maxis buildings and demand cap relief they provide, and many of the things on the STEX will do so as well.

In short, add a bunch of parks, and the minor league stadium, and you should be fine.

EDIT:  To be clear, the cap applies separately to each city, and separately to each developer type.  It also starts at different places for each developer.

EDIT AGAIN:  I did some searching, and found some things you may find useful:

This article explains a bit about demand, desirability, and abandonment.

This building should help you determine whether you need demand cap relief.

[Evil Weasel 88]

I have all stadiums available and loads of parks. Full residential demand.

[Dixie 0]

If you have the jobs then you should get the sims , try raising education levels ,maybe your sims are not clever enough to take the jobs you have created .Tax rates never realy need to be below 8 % , maybe you lowered taxes to much , get a boom then suffer rescession ,false economy ,Beter to play for steady pop growth rather than boom and bust .

[Prophet42 1,500]

I have the same issue in almost all my cities.  I found that adding a park or two in the immediate area gets some development going.  If that doesn't work, I usually add some mass transit stops.  If that doesn't work, then its just a matter of patience.  Eventually it will develop.

[popewiz 1]

This is an issue that I often come across once my city grows to about 25,000 people. I searched for quite a while until realizing that this issue deals with the building stage level requirements. What this means is that at some point, if there is not enough medium and high density zoning to satisfy the required percentage for each building stage. No additional building will occur. For example, let's assume that at 10,000 residents, 20% of residents are housed in stage 1 buildings, 40% are stage 2 buildings, and 40% are stage 3 buildings. If there is not enough medium density zones for there to be 40% of the population in stage 3 buildings, no additional stage 1 or 2 buildings will be built either. I hope that makes sense.

[Evil Weasel 88]

So If I zone up elsewhere, then it will build in the outskirts?

[DFire870 2]

One thing that might be happening is that the areas you're zoning might be too "perfect". Cities need equal amounts of R$, R$$, and R$$$ to function. With the situation you're describing, all of the police/fire/education/health coverage might be deterring R$ from growing.

[Barbarossa 51]

I agree with a previous poster... parks, parks, parks, then maybe some... parks! But you also want all the amenities... schools, libraries, museums, police, police kiosks in trouble spots, fire, WATER, garbage exports (use a neighbor), some landmarks, and any rewards (except business deals). Radius applies to most, so make sure you are placing things intelligently. Also, look into your traffic, mass transit, and ensure a neighbor connection to a separate commercial city (it helps, sometimes, because of regional demands).

I am trying to think if there is anything else I am forgetting, but will post if something comes to mind.

Barbarossa

[opbravo 0]

i agree with popewiz in that you might want to try and start building upwards as well as outwards. you can try to re-zone some areas in your city center to medium density residential and see what happens.

[crazyhorse21 0]

this is a long post and yes I have posted it before its from a SC4RH faq thanks to pyrofalkon http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/914834/28952

____________________________________________________________________________________________

In all four SimCity games, there's always been one problem that stumps most

rookies and many vets alike (myself included). Unless you've got a tiny city or

are ridiculously lucky, you will come to a point where the city will simply

stop growing. Your education levels will level out, your hospitals will be

exactly where you want them, all zones will be filled but no more will be asked

for, and you'll be getting a steady income with average-or-less complaints

about tax rates. The city becomes stagnant as far as growth goes; it becomes a

sticky trap, where nobody comes in, no one leaves, and everyone reproduces

enough to replace the dead. The stickiness is what I call the "Peanut Butter

Point." Get the pun? Ha ha ha!

A-hem. Anyway, the Peanut Butter Point is deadly, because you may think your

game is over. It seems that if you try to make any additional zones or other

things, no one wants them. If you take stuff away, then you're defeating the

purpose. What's the point of continuing? Of course, you can always start a new

city, but I don't like doing that until every single tile within city limits

has a purpose.

Okay, let's say you've got a good-sized city going. Even if it seems no one is

moving in, you may not have hit your Peanut Butter Point yet. Here's a

checklist...

-Are ALL your schools funded enough to avoid overcrowding?

-Are ALL your hospitals funded enough to avoid over crowding?

-Are ALL your libraries and museums funded enough to give the people what they

want?

-Do you have enough police stations and fire stations to cover your whole city?

-Do you have enough jails so they have room to accommodate more prisoners?

-Is your trash amount under your capacity?

-Are you getting few (if any) complaints on the tax rate?

-Are all zones and buildings powered and watered?

If the answer to any of those questions are no, then the problem(s) is/are easy

to fix. Of course, if you answered yes to all those questions, here's the

second (shorter) list...

-Are ALL your zones set to maximum density? (assuming you want maximum density;

farms can't be in areas that dense, of course)

-Do you have an airport complimenting your commercial sector?

-Do you have a seaport complimenting your industrial sector? (assuming you've

got water access)

If the answers to those questions are "yes" also, then you've hit your Peanut

Butter Point.

+-----------------------+

|8a. What To Do About It|

+-----------------------+

The Peanut Butter Point is not the end of your game; in fact, it's the start of

a whole new set of challenges. I personally love dealing with it.

The first thing you need to do when hitting that point is not to panic. In my

rookie days, I used to think that the reason people weren't coming in was

because there was something wrong with my policies. So, I lowered tax rates,

issued more ordinances, built tons of parks, and generally threw in a whole

bunch of stuff to make everyone happy... or so I thought. Between the lowered

tax and new ordinances, though, my money well quickly ran dry.

The question you're asking by now is, how can you make your city overcome that

Peanut Butter Point. A common phrase in comedy and the entertainment industry

in general is "Leave your audience wanting more."

Concentrate on what is RIGHT in your town. There is very, VERY seldom the

perfect city. If you've hit the Peanut Butter Point, it's not because the city

is too bad, nor is it that your city is too good; it's because there's too much

of a balance between what you have right and what you have wrong. I hate saying

this, but for the sims' own good, the best way to make your city get out of its

sticky trap is to piss everyone off.

Before starting, make sure you have plenty of cash. This method can get a bit

expensive.

Find the best part of town. Just check the map and look for whatever place has

the highest land value and highest city aura. If you have multiple spots, pick

an area that is pretty big, but not the biggest. Call this place "Ground Zero."

Find out why the land value is so high; it's usually high education and low

crime. Grab the keys to your trusty bulldozer, start that MF'er up, and give

the kiddies a permanent vacation from school--break open the jails too, while

you're at it.

I know it sounds crazy, but trust me. Let the city be confused for awhile.

They'll complain and yell about how crappy the town is, but believe it or not,

that's what you want temporarily. Take some money (in your coffers, if you can,

NOT a loan), and go to some land that is unoccupied. Start a "new city" over in

that corner. Pretend you're starting a new game, just with an inflated bank

account. Build a new, cheap power plant. Build some zones of all three flavors,

use streets instead of roads, avoid any police or fire coverage, and refuse to

give them any education. Meanwhile, head back to Ground Zero and take out a few

dozen parks or so... Do NOT re-zone or destroy any existing RCI buildings.

After a few months, the city aura and value in Ground Zero will just absolutely

plummet. However, your sims try to move across town before across the nation.

They'll see that new little area you've got developing in the corner of the

map, and they'll take interest. While they're thinking of the good ol' days,

cut off their water.

Back at the new colony, start giving the most basic of the Big Four Services:

one elementary school, one clinic (not a hospital yet), one small police

station, and no fire stations... well, maybe a small one, if you feel sorry for

'em, and to protect the power plant. You MIGHT already have a few people coming

in, but still not enough to make you get out of your trap.

After that little colony is established, expand it out. Again, pretend it's a

new city; just ignore that big mess of people on the other side of the river.

Build some parks and other recreational areas, and raise the zones' densities

now and then. Once it looks pretty solid, build a road that connects this

little colony to the main city. Get a subway connecting the two also if you can

to make any commuter stupid enough to make THAT trip happy.

People will start to come into the new colony SLOWLY. This is not an instant

method here, it takes some time. But, while you're biding that time, you can

help out other sectors. For example, one thing that's commonly overlooked in

SimCity 4 is your industrial zones' distances to freight access. They like

being close to extra-city connections, especially railroads. If that's not an

option, they want a freight station (linked to a railroad going out of town, of

course) that's very close by. Try to improve that too.

Eventually, the demand will be met for the colony, but because it was smaller

than Ground Zero, there will still be demand for the city as a whole. Your

instinct will be to start upgrading stuff around the colony (like bigger police

stations and such), but don't. If you feel the need to give them SOMETHING, let

'em have water. Otherwise, that's the ghetto of your city; let it suffer for

now.

So, to fill the rest of that demand, you need to restore Ground Zero. Work

backwards: give them back water, then parks, then their services. Do it slowly

enough that the area doesn't get flooded, but work fast enough that no one

forgets the place exists. I find that restoring one part of Ground Zero ever

three to four months works the best. In time, people who moved to the colony

will move back, or the newcomers who started in the colony will move into

Ground Zero. That will free up room in the colony, and it's STILL cheap land

for the poorer classes to afford.

Once Ground Zero is restored, start upgrading the colony to make it a full-

fledged suburb, or maybe a large city of its own. The main thing is to keep low

land value areas that are ripe for the poor to live in. This way, you're always

"leaving your sims wanting more." They want better education or whatever in the

new colonies; don't give it to them unless 1) it's all that's left for your

city borders, or 2) you have plenty of low-value area as well.

+-----------------------+

|8b. An Alternate Method|

+-----------------------+

The thing about the above method is that it's risky. If your Ground Zero is the

heart of the city, then everything will end up collapsing, and you may never

recover. It's ridiculously expensive too, because you'll be going on

abbreviated taxes until everything gets restored.

There are a couple more tips I can offer if you don't want to risk the above

technique, or you don't have the cash. This is a little less sure and slower,

but if the sims don't bite, you won't lose nearly as much. The basic thing is

that you still have to force the sims' polygonal hands. There's no Utopia; all

cities can be improved. You have to isolate one part of the city and make it so

damned attractive that anyone who's anyone will want to live there.

Find an area like Ground Zero above, the best of the best districts in your

city. Double-check all its civic buildings and services. Check the roads and

intersections. Check freight times for industrial zones and commute times for

residential zones. Improve the obvious first.

Next, look for ANY spot of yellow on the crime map. It doesn't matter how big

or small. Take out whatever building is on top of the area no matter what it is

and plop down a large police station with $250/month funding. If there's a

region of parks, take them out and try to get in zoos or stadiums or something

bigger instead. Find the corner of the area that's just the SLIGHTEST below

maximum value, take out all buildings directly at the area, and purchase a

landmark to put there. If you put a landmark near that high-value area,

especially near the fringe, then you'll really make people want it.

You can also look to steal people away from other cities. Enact a few tourist

ordinances, give them a year to kick in, then zone and build a colony like I

stated above. The tourists will stop by and see your city, drool over it, and

want to be a part of it. Give them a place to go, and you'll have growth faster

than you can say "Choosy moms choose Jif."

Oh, one more thing. Get rid of any business deal buildings if you can, such as

casinos or toxic waste dumps. Large cities shouldn't need them, and you'll make

the general aura of the ENTIRE city better by tossing them. That alone can do

wonders for growth.

[nerdly_dood 26]

Maybe your computer cant handle big cities.

I imported a 40k city where the population had stayed there a long time even with lots of empty zones into a faster computer and next thing u know its 60, 80, 95k. Now its 120k and growing.