Suburban Sprawl

[waterstreet 1]

If people are going to live in a biosphere friendly environment of low rise buidlings, along with efficent government services, there should also be a sense of community and culture. When I think of something like what ActivationEnsues said above, there must be a medium of art expression in this future world of people living close together.

And I agree with the mandatory black outs, for most of my life I lived in Taos, New Mexico where the sky is so clear you can see every star in the sky, even the distant Amdromada Galaxy. In Boulder, Colorado now, I miss the stars.

[Ross Fox 0]

Hrm, first post, may as well say something smart...>.>

I live in Scotland, and although suburbs haven't exactly developed like they have in the US, they seem more and more like them each time. The town I currently live in was once an important industrial centre, and at the height of the industrial age, was at one of the most important manufacturing centres in the country. But when industries declined, and schemes to try and improve the economy of the area failed, suburbanisation took hold. Now, the town is a failing retail centre, with appaling concrete "shoebox architecture" from the 60's and 70's, surrounded by acres of suburbia. Suburbs may be clean and safe for kids in the US, but in this town, and many other places, they are dirty, covered with litter, and mostly grey, and built in the 60's, so when it rains, it looks incredibly depressing. On the very edge, new developments are being built, which look worrying like the the cookie-cutter McMansions of America, in giant, planned developments, with repetitive low density architecture and concentrating traffic on a few roads leading in and out the area. Traffic is bad and getting worse, and yet more houses go up, trying to pull people from nearby Glasgow (I live in Kilmarnock, Ayrshire in case anyone was wondering)

I'm trying to do the opposite, as soon as I go to university, I'm outta here to move to the city, and after I graduate and settledown, I'll either stay there or go to the country, cause I am never coming back to this place again, or any like it (as there are a lot of similar towns in the UK)

Er, so yeah...against

[hogs29 1]

Originally posted by: lolebagels

To me, suburbs are the answer to someone who wants an escape from the city - but needs its comforts and amenities. Although suburbs rarely have a special touch and  "atmosphere" to them, like most downtowns do (look at San Francisco, Seattle, NYC), it's a wonderful place for kids. It's easy to get lost in all the hustle of the cities. I have to oppose hogs29, too. It's definitely not true that "nobody knows each other, and couldn't care either." Although I have never lived in a downtown, I know that it's plenty easy to make friends out of suburbian neighbors.

quote>

 

I didn't mean to sound like all suburbs are unfriendly. Just the ones where I live, which is probably a main reason why I don't like them. My cousin just bought a house in a Jacksonville suburb, one of those ugly communities with hundreds of homes that are exact duplicates of each other and an obviously fake stream running through it all ending in an obvioulsy fake lake (last I ckecked, natural lakes are never perfectly square). He's already made a lot of friends. But here in the great northeast, it seems like nobody wants to know nothin' from no-one.

To be hidiously ugly is bad enough. Winter is even worse because when all the trees are bare you really get a sense for how the town has no personality and how packed in everyone is. top that off with miserable people, and you have northeastern suburbs. Who could possibly ask for more than that?

Oh, if you can't already tell, I'm against urban sprawl.

[ActivationEnsues 0]

Originally posted by: waterstreet If people are going to live in a biosphere friendly environment of low rise buidlings, along with efficent government services, there should also be a sense of community and culture. When I think of something like what ActivationEnsues said above, there must be a medium of art expression in this future world of people living close together.

And I agree with the mandatory black outs, for most of my life I lived in Taos, New Mexico where the sky is so clear you can see every star in the sky, even the distant Amdromada Galaxy. In Boulder, Colorado now, I miss the stars.quote>

Community and culture are the two biggest things that are missing from most "neighborhoods" these days. You can find them in the downtown areas, to use the example of Chicago again, with Wicker Park (hipsterified eclectic, but still dramatically different), Bridgeport (working class utilitarianism with a large mix of incomes), Bronzeville, Hyde Park, Chinatown, Old Town, Wrigleyville, Pilsen; the list goes on.

Each of those areas have community development groups, people that organize the commercial and residential aspects of the neighborhood to create a unique segment of the city.

In the suburbs, we lack that same kind of economic possibility to develop a patchwork of different subcultures across the towns, villages, and cities we live in. Commerce is relegated to strip malls, small downtown and high priced suburban cores (where the more traditional neighborhood has begun to fade away), and the sprawling concrete slabs of big box and their ilk on the peripherary. The community of suburbs often develops on cul-de-sacs, but quickly fades away after connecting to the next road.

Hence why whenever I move into whatever location I so choose, I want to be highly involved with its community board, and why I try to organize even small private parties to help develop that sense of connection among people from different areas nearby.

[jj88 23]

I think suburbs are ok as long as there isn't too much of them. Often in America they seem to have miles of endless suburbs.

[HuskerDude 12]

I dislike cars and car-dependency, so cities are the only way to go for me, really. Over Christmas, I was stranded at my parent's house in the suburbs with no car, and thus no way to get around. I could wait for the bus that came about 3 times a day and would shuttle me to the little suburban shopping center and back, or I could walk about 12 miles to catch a commuter bus to get me into town. I've found in most suburbs (including the one I grew up in) there is absolutely no sense of community, because people drive straight from work or shopping or whatever straight into their garages, then stay in their houses until the next day when they drive straight out of their garages back to whatever their destination may be. Living in San Francisco, where most folks who live and work in the city walk, bike, or take a bus or train to get around, I knew a lot of the people on my block, simply because I saw them every day as we were going about our daily business. Spontaneous street conversations were pretty commonplace, something I almost never experienced out in the burbs.

I feel the convenience, culture, dining, entertainment, excitement, and sense of community are worth the extra expense of living in the city.

However, in SC4, I do make the big burbs because it looks more realistic in American style cities.

[sc4portugal 10]

I like amerisn subs but european suba aren't exatly the same in america subs are nicer and they work

[Owen 0]

Don't forget that in Europe, population growth is fairly stagnant. Most of Western Europe would be experiencing population declines without massive immigration, and the problems that brings to these previously homogenous societies. The United States is still experiencing rocketing population growth. Here, where the the land is cheap cheap, sprawling suburbs are both the cheapest (short-term) way to put roofs over heads.

Density i good, but here in SC, where undeveloped land can be less than $1000/acre and is usually around $2000/acre, it's hard to justify paying for that $3M/5 Acre in the inner burbs. Much cheaper to move out from the center. Besides, noone really works in the city anymore anyways.

[Neddiggis 1]

As a Landscape Architect this topic has caught my attention. A large part of my job is drawing up plans for subdivisions. While the work in NZ is on a smaller scale than that in the USA we face similar problems. We can't put in community spirit, we have to put in elements to encourage it. I believe subdivisions need a focus, whether it's a park, in smaller ones, or a commercial centre for larger ones. Somewhere for the residents to get to know their neighbours. Otherwise they just don't work.

[BlackStar 0]

hmm as mentioned by Sam Fox, you must be careful when trying to incorporate community through design force. In the 60s, this was attempted when suburbia started to grow quickly... thus the semi-detached house was developed. Not bad in middle-class areas.. as you get a good garden space, and interaction with your neighbour... but in low wealth council estates, I'd rather live with 12 inch thick titanium plated walls between me and the neighbours

[BlackStar 0]

lol can someone please delete these duplicates messages?

Sorry

[Facelessman 5]

I am very much for sprawl both in-game and in reality. I would hate living in an urban apartment. Right now I live in a suburb (with a population of over 360,000! - pretty much all sprawl) and I really like it. There's plenty of places to go and do, because, like people have said before in this topic, American suburbs are not very dependent on the big cities. Suburbs are where the people who get rich working in the big cities work. So there's lots of places to shop and eat in the suburbs, because the people who work in the city don't want to drive there to shop/eat/etc. Also, whoever said that suburbs destroy trees was very wrong. There are far more trees in America today than there were when it was "discovered." Many cities have regulations that require a certain number of trees trees to be planted with every house.

In the game, I find building sprawling suburbs much more fun than developing large areas of high/mid-rise apartments. I do love nice skylines, though. (both in game and in real life)

[BlackStar 0]

erk! Don't know what happened!

[caleworley 1]

LA itself is a metropolis. Look at the enormous sprawl that horrible city created. After all, it's SURROUNDED by cities upon cities upon cities. And you forgot the San Jose in SF-Oakland! quote>

I guess I always thought that without LA and it's immediate surroundings... nothing else would be there.  Maybe I'm looking at this wrong?  Indianapolis is a uni-gov city.  Other than Speedway, Lawerence, and Beech Grove, everything else is Indianapolis city.  Where as other major cities have 100's of communities that have their own PD, FD and city government and they all make up a "metro area"

I live and work in a city of 5000.  I have no problems seeing the stars at night.  I do have a problem with having to drive 60 minutes to southern Indianapolis in order to eat a decent meal, go to a movie, go shopping for even everyday items.  Those who live in the city and suburbs are always complaining when a new Wal-Mart is being built, or whatever.  I'd love a Wal-Mart Supercenter closer than an hour away!  I'd love a 4-lane road between my hometown and anywhere that has shopping, movie theaters, family entertainment, etc....  Guess that's the difference between living in a major city and not.

[jay_allen1978 0]

i hate sprawl. i hate the hundreds and hundreds of cookie cutter houses tha pop up every day. i live in tucson and upsets me everytime i remember as a kid"hey, i used to hang out there" or "i remember when...." there are no stars at night now. big developments are not good. i work in construction, these houses are built cheap and sold for ten times what they're worth. oh well, buy on idiot, buy on

[kibblewitbit 0]

i think im saying the exact opposite of everyone else, i hardly do suburbs in simcity (too lazy to plan out the complicated streets and cul de sacs), but i dont mind suburbs in real life as long as they are denser and walkable, rowhouses are cool i guess, but not to close together (at least have room for a little backyard, but not to big, i hate mowing the lawn) i like the look of european suburbs i guess

[IDS2 3,346]

Lol, you guys, I live in the fastest growing suburb in mMinnesota, hehe. I know a lot about sprawl...any questions, PM me, I can answer any of them.

It's a pretty nice place to be.

700th post.

Though I have to agree with jayallen, it'sfrusturating when you pass a field where you used to play kickball and find a condo development.

Which is a big problem here...I remember this little house with a tiny collection/junk shop, kinda cool stuff there. But as the property was engulfed by Walmart along with about 15 townhomes...makes me wanna explode.

The house was really cool...antiquish...*sigh* but now that's the past.

Though another problem is related to MSP the cities, 5 years ago downtown there were apartments o the rivers and on the greenways...like Loring in Minneapolis or Kellogg in St. Paul...now 5 years later condos are EVERYWHERE! It drives me NUTS when I realize that yet another Old St. Anthony landmark has been replaced by a pawnshop and some gangsta condo place. I mean C'MON!!!

btw Blackstar you've encountered a page flipping bug, extra pages get added on to a thread and some messages turn invisible and extra blank pages are added...ignore them, they happen all the time, don't worry.

[Kazeneko 0]

I don't post here much, but this thread caught my attention, so I just had to

I live in what once was, in 1985, the small, quiet, peaceful city of Colorado Springs, CO.  This is great city to live in, and I'd bet that if you were able to stay here for a good amount of time, you'd either not want to leave, or if you had to, you'd want to come back

Sadly, though, the city is experiencing a HUGE population increase, to the point that in 2005, it was in the top five fastest growing cities in the country!  This has lead to massive amounts of housing being built everywhere.  Green space and the open fields in and around the city are being swallowed up so fast, it's literally frighting.  In the two years that I've lived in my new, new house (ironic, eh?,) I've literally lost site of the horizon in the morning.  Instead, when I leave for work and look back in the rear view mirror, I see tract housing, the foundations of new houses, or the roads being built to where houses are going to be.  Now, this wouldn't be so bad, if it wasn't for, as stated above by others, the need for services for all these new houses.  It seems like everything commercial that is built in this city, is a single-story square cinder block eye-sore, all situated in a row with massive parking lots.

Anyways, I've rambled on long enough, and lost what I was going to say, so instead, I'll post a link with loads of info...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs,_Colorado

Edit: Oh, and I'm completely against sprawl.

[kurtvedder 4]

With out the suburbs, what would be so speacial about vistiting the city? I live in Medina, Washington which is a suburb of Seattle which offers great views of downown, but even though I look at the city every day, i rarely venture to the city. Which makes my monthly trips more exciting.

[danerd 0]

I'm from Sydney, Australia, which is pretty much one massive suburban sprawl. Personally, I do not believe I could bear with living in a concrete jungle like New York. Although there are some problems with commuting on the highways at peak hour, I have never had any problems in getting to large shopping centres - like what you Americans would call 'malls'.

[jmjselect 0]

I live in a sprawl. Atlanta.

I love living in the suburbs, it's the best of both worlds(urban/rural). If I want to be around alot of people and enjoy city life I can. If I want to be void of human life and just chill out with the squirells(sp?) and deers and bears or whatever I can. or I can just go home and enjoy my little slice of heaven, trees grass birds... and in atlanta it's so spread out that we are developing satellite cities with mini office/dt areas. I live about an hour away from dt atlanta but 5 mins away is the largest mall in the south east with massive commercial development surrounding it(with excellent food options), 20 mins away is our convention/sports center(concerts, hockey, basketball, plays opera,....) and there's 15-20 story buildings way out here.

When people picture the suburbs they think homes that look alike and strip malls everywhere. I can't speak for other places but atlanta's suburbs is a unique place(even our suburbs are different from one another). plus we are the city in the woods so there's PLENTY of green space.

[Socorocks 7]

There is nothing spiritually, emotionally, or physically fulfilling about sprawl.

Suburbs, on the other hand, can be quite beautiful when integrated well with their surroundings - tree-lined grid of streets, quaint white-washed houses, corner markets, a wholesome, fulfilling way of life.

But American sprawl is all walls, divisions, berms and buffers, strips, lanes, just division after division after division.

Uses are divided. What? Put commercial services that people need within walking distance of homes? Preposterous! The nerve! If we did that, some might even have the gall to leave their cars in the driveway for once!

If suburbanites could for one second look past all the pretty landscaping and river rock siding and ample traffic provisions, they would see that they live in a place of utter void.

I grew up 60 miles outside of Los Angeles - essentially the mother of suburban sprawl.

There is nothing pleasant about driving down a road and seeing nothing but cinder-block wall and the backs of cheaply constructed houses.

There is nothing pleasant, in fact, about being absolutely forced to drive anywhere.

I should not have to get in my car when I need a quart of milk, but with the endless barriers and walls and divisions and vast, wasted concrete-and-planter expanses, I have no choice.

People were initially drawn to the suburbs because they felt trapped in the close quarters of the city.

But now, nothing feels more trapping than sprawl.

Los Angeles, Pheonix, Houston, Atlanta, Sacramento, Las Vegas - largest prisons on earth.

Sprawl is not good, lovable, healthy, useful. It is destructive, wasteful, and demoralizing.

[jimbojones99 0]

Im personally a big fan of urban sprwal because where i live, Melbourne, the majority of people live there. it is one of the largest cities in the world by LAND AREA. because of the australian dream to have a 1/4 acre and a house everyone expanded the city out. the edges of the city in some palces can get 20 to 30km from the city centre.

so any way urban sprwal is goood!!1

[tankmank 853]

I live in the suburbs in the uk it is really nice to live here yeah sure you have the tesco,toys'r'rus or

B&Q but you still have the corner shop and Brittish Suburbs are alot better then american because there is more houses packed in the suburbs because the houses are thinner,small front gardens and now in some of the new developments underground garages also the public transport is good in the suburbs there is about 8 bus stops in 1/2 a square mile from my house mabie more  

[jimbojones99 0]

the better things with australian urban sprawl, well the older sprawl, is that there is such a great variety of buildings ranging from different eras. it isnt all the same. the only exception are caroline springs, craigieburn and those other places that shall remain nameless. they are full of cheap ugly houses. but the upside to them is that they allow people with less money to get the lifestyle they want and ensure that their children have a good future.

[kitexan254 0]

well i live in killeen, tx which is nothing but sprawl. its a military city. so if u live in the city you either work for the us army or u commute a hour to the south to the mother of suburbia Austin, texas. When i moved here 18 yrs ago i remember when it was a city with a small town feel. now its growing so fast the city can keep up with the demand for housing. Ppl have to stay in hotels waiting for their houses to be constructed. But i must say that its a very open and friendly town. I know all of my neighbors and we have get togethers. so the statement that ppl in suburbia dont know each other is a utter lie. the only thing that i must say that i dislike is that the traffic has grown out of control. so its seems that everytime your turn around the expressway is always being expanded or repaved. I still own an apt in south korea and i much prefer to live their. Simply because i live in my 17th story apt and everything that i want is less than 10mins away. and if i cant walk to it Seoul has a great mass transit system. thats the one main thing is that here in the states we depend on our cars entirely to much. we need to invest in our public transit like asian and european cities have.

[SystemUK 0]

Old suburbs (1900-1930) are the best in Scotland. Lots of room and good sized houses yet you are still close enough to the centre of the town/city.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Originally posted by: SystemUK Old suburbs (1900-1930) are the best in Scotland. Lots of room and good sized houses yet you are still close enough to the centre of the town/city.quote>

I could not agree more. That era or Suburban development led to some of the greatest living Environments in this country.

Using London as an example (its the biggest city in the country, cant get any better example), Places like Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Berrylands, Surbiton etc, (and im not just naming stations on the LSWR lol) a massive area of South West London, 1930s suburbia at its best. Also the area in which Gascookers BAT houses are based on.

[hamsterTK 93]

well i live in killeen, tx which is nothing but sprawl. quote>

Hah cool I lived in cove for a while.

[SockoJr53 51]

I really hate suburban sprawl, it results in massive tracts of land consisting of the EXACT same house over and over and over again where everything is the same. That, and the big post WW2 suburban boom that resulted in the creation of the suburbs caused so much urban decay in almost every American city. The ugly suburbs kill the beautiful cities as everyone leaves for greener pastures (Green because of the immense amounts of pesticides being dumped on them...)