Avenue Roundabouts Development Thread

[Haljackey 17,242]

This is a response to the NAM that came out in January 2007.  Many members were anticipating the long awaited avenue compatible roundabout; however, it was unable to come out at this release date.  The NAM team has done a great job with its newest release, even without the new roundabout.  Good things come to those who wait .

While playing around with the various features and connectability benefits of the NAM, I was able to create an avenue roundabout without any additional plugins except for the NAM itself.

Heres a picture of it!

Heres another version of it, with one-way roads on the corners providing additional connectivity

(pictures may look a little odd because I use widescreen format, and had to compress it in order to meet site regulations.)

The problem with this roundabout is that you cannot get rid of the centre avenue in the middle that is not used.  If this could be removed, it would create a 2X2 section for a filler or a landmark (similar to the 1X1 section in the middle of the current one-way road roundabout).

Another problem is the stop signs.  In this case, they do not work, cars will not stop.  I was unable to get rid of them though. 

There are a lot of reality issues with this, but at least its an avenue roundabout!  The intersections at the corners is one such issue, as well as having to stretch your avenues before to the roundabout with one way roads.

You can also use it as a t-intersection.  Heres a picture of one with one-way roads on the corners.

Anyway, I hope this solves your avenue roundabout problems for the time being.  This is just one step in the right direction.  I look forward to avenue roundabouts in the NAM in the future!

-Haljackey

[tommiej 0]

nice discovery haljackey!

[Tarkus 6,931]

@haljackey:  That's really cool!  Thanks for showing . . . with a few texture overrides, it probably would be possible to get rid of that center avenue.

-Tarkus

[sc4portugal 10]

Cool roundabout

[toxicpiano 125]

yeah I found that a while before the new NAM, what we really need is a round overhanging prop with flowers and a brick boarder or something that can cover up those 2 inside lanes.

[Rymac91 15]

I already knew about this...I actully have pictures of it...though what we need are some props for the middle...since the design works fine...

here's my experimental ones from back in 2005....

[mightygoose 92]

to be fair used them in my cities occasionally and i did know about them before you mentione dit haljackey, however i dont particularly care about the middle. i would prefer to see textures that stopped the on/off sliproads crossing over in a highly unrealistic fashion....

[Wilfried Webber 22]

Wanna go in cicles? Go this way, man:

    

[mad_genius 16]

Those images are great.
However, the best way to create an avenue roundabout is to try to merge 2 one-way roads together to try to create a "one-way avenue" instead of using the normal avenue to make the circle. The question is how difficult it is to program the one-way avenue.

[Glenni 1,444]

Very cool hal, and if you found a way to remove the middle so you have a 2x2 free space to plop thing in as the 3x3 roundabouts with a 1x1 open tile in the middle, that would be great!

Because then i'll be ready to make circular buildings for roundabouts like that, which mind you,do exist, there are a few examples in London.

[Haljackey 17,242]

Wilfried Webber, I've been making those circles around my monarails just like u used light rail transit there. The problem there is that there are intersections, that I want to avoid.

Secondly, that works well with a "parkway" style road because the avenue has a tile empty there. Linking an avenue there would cause you to drag one direction 1 tile over, while leaving the other strait. Your smaller roundabout is more of square, and I want to try to make it a circle like the other roundabouts while conserving room as well.

Now I know they are nothing new, but the inability to use avenues roundabouts just sucks.

Oh and by the way, Glenni i know circular buildings do exist. I live in London, Ontario, Canada, and we have many roundabouts here based on the ones from the UK, as architects base many things on stuff from London, UK. My favorite has got to be the IMAX inside of a roundabout. Thats Awesome!

Thanks for the feedback everyone! If there is a way to get rid of the 2X2 ave in the centre, as Tarkus mentioned, and we get rid of the intersections, then the roundabout will turn out great!

Because the avenue is a 2 wile wide network, there needs to be a place where that network can connect on all four (or possibly 8,) sides. Other networks, such as roads and streets also need to be able to use it, and the shortness of the 4X4 ave roundabout would create weaving in the innermost lane from cars rapidly entering/exiting that lane. I was thinking of going with a larger circle, possibly 8X8, so the innermost lane would have a longer circumference, allowing vechicles more time and space to enter/exit that lane safely. I know in real life multiple lane roundabouts are a lot larger because of this purpose. a 6X6 variant wouldn't work because there needs to be a equal number of tiles on each side of the avenue when it intersects with the roundabout. 4X4, as already seen from my 1st post has 1 tile on either side of the ave and allowing for sharper turns and a smaller roundabout. 8X8 would allow two tiles on either side for a larger, higher capacity, safer, nicer looking roundabout. 8X8 would also have a larger area in the middle to place biuldings, kind of looking like a + shaped network.

Something like this: A circular building could stretch the corners;/overhang where there is not a tile, kind of what toxicpiano said.

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-Haljackey

[Tarkus 6,931]

@haljackey:  Well,  I remembered that with regards to getting rid of the center roadway, qurlix has actually been messing around with fixing the Avenue Roundabouts for awhile and has made progress.  Here is a post he made back in November with pics of his development at that time--there's still some glitches, but he had the center roadway essentially removed on the second pic. 

As far as those even larger roundabouts you mentioned, a 6x6 actually could work.  You could just use a different type of texture override besides Avenues.  For example, you could have side-by-side Roads or One-Way Roads going around which convert over.  There's probably ways to do different widths that way as well (2-lane and 3-lane).  I've learned in my recent modding experience that texture overrides are indeed the greatest thing since sliced bread, at least in terms of expanding the capabilities of SC4 networks.

-Tarkus

[M1 0]

I have made a few signalised roundabouts, where the roundabout has priority at every turn-off. I'll try and provide a picture soon.

[ScruffyDeluxe 0]

Whoa, deja-vu. I just made this for a lark:

Kinda stuck with transit-enabling...

[Haljackey 17,242]

WOW! ScruffyDeluxe, thats amazing! Just Transit-enabling it would make it work!! Its too bad u or I have an idea how to do that though. Awesome job on it!

[owenluby 1]

Now that's cool! You could add little slip lanes to turn left (or right in other countries, depending on which side of the road you drive on) so it flows even better!

I'll be watching this thread, I've always wanted avenue roundabouts...

[toxicpiano 125]

Wow! Awesome! Try contacting Quirlix or Ardecilia, they might be able to help!

[sc4portugal 10]

Year....

great pics!

[Andreas Roth 604]

Hmm, not that I want to lower your expectations, but this is a lot with roundabout textures, isn't it? You can transit enable it, but it won't work like a "real" roundabout, even with paths. frimi created something like this months ago, and it even worked - but with all the limits that transit enabled lots have. The real problem so far was to turn the textures into a real network piece, either ploppable or draggable, like the current road and street roundabouts. qurlix once started playing around with it, but got stuck somewhere in the middle, as far as I know.

[TinySim 4]

Technically wouldn't it be as easy to do this as it was to do the regular roundabouts? I mean if you do the same thing but with the avenue it should work, shouldn't it?

[Andreas Roth 604]

I have no idea how the road roundabouts are done, but I figure that the avenue one is a bit more complicated, since the avenue is a two-tile wide traffic network, compared to the one-tile wide streets and roads.

[Nardo69 51]

I am a complete $%&^! regarding pathing but how about a puzzle piece for the roundabout?

Actually I like the oneway roundabout but whenever I put GLR between the oneways I have to leave SC4, remove the NAM file, do the intersection, leave SC4 again, put the NAM file back to its place ...

A single Network piece like the Y-stack would be very nice but as I cannot judge the work nor do it by myself ....

Bernhard

[Andreas Roth 604]

IIRC, puzzle pieces actually were in the discussion for roundabouts a long time ago. I think the major drawbacks of them is the fact that they need menu space (and you might need to press TAB endlessly before getting the right piece), and of course, there's the old crash bug that is triggered whenever you touch a transit enabled lot with a puzzle piece.

BTW, if you want to know how much work it was to create the Y rail stack, just ask ArkenbergeJoe, and he'll tell you a whole novel about it.

[Haljackey 17,242]

Originally posted by: Andreas Roth IIRC, puzzle pieces actually were in the discussion for roundabouts a long time ago. I think the major drawbacks of them is the fact that they need menu space (and you might need to press TAB endlessly before getting the right piece),

quote>

I would agree there, a puzzle piece is not the best option.  The roundabouts should be drawn like the others in game, creating a box that turns it into a roundabout.  The problem of this, like mentioned before, is the pathing issues and the occupied space in the middle. 

How about NOT using the avenue??? Instead, you could use a one way road to draw the network.  Its only one tile wide and has been pathed before with the one way roundaboutes in game.  To get it to work, drawing a 4X4 box (or possibly 8X8) would create another roundabout opposed to the 3X3.  It would be as wide is it could, squeezing 2 lanes in the cornors as best as possible.  This would leave a 2X2 centre piece, used for... anything, really.  It would be a way around this problem, and the tighter network would be easier to path and would elimate the need for a puzzle piece as Nardo 69 stated.

What do'ya think?

-Haljackey

[Voulpiotis 4]

Wow, ScruffyDeluxe, how the hell did you make that roundabout?

[Meastro444 1]

he modified some textures with photoshop and putted them on a lot....

[Haljackey 17,242]

Unfortunately, it is not transit-enabled, and won't function with road/pedestrian traffic. If that was to be pathed (had failed in the past) , it would work great!

The pathing problem is caused because an avenue is a two tile wide network and has unique pathing issues. I suggest working with a one way road (see my last post above) and that way the one tile network would have more flexibility. One ways have been successfully pathed in the past, the one way 3X3 roundabout being the most notable example.

[hawkpride147 1]

i believe haljackey has the easiest idea. it should only require a little extra code in the current OWR roundabout to become possible. i think it should be 6x6 or 8x8.

[Voulpiotis 4]

Yes, someone just make it transit enabled please, it's great!

[checkguy 0]

The roundabout should allow for more than just a 2 avenue intersection at a right angle. IE allow 4 avenues, or 2 avenues and a road or street. That's sort of my main reason for waning a large roundabout, so it can support an intersection of more than just 2 types of roads.

The road and street roundabouts are great in this regard, but they don't allow for avenues.