Daeris

Hello again all! I know there was another post somewhat similar to this one here about a week ago, however, where that post seemed to start out as geared towards more resources and assets, I'm actually wanting to inquire more on your mindsets and philosophies when you play the game, to achieve natural growth. I want to pick your brains! =p After a many year break, I'm diving back into SC4 during quarantine, and I'm loving this game all over again. I'm so thrilled there is still a strong and friendly player base, and that mods are still getting updated. Because I had never really satisfied my itch to play the game with the "natural growth" approach, I'm doing so now for the first time. I can already tell I'm making plenty of mistakes and this first region playthrough I'm just going to consider a giant learning experience. I'll try to list some of my philosophies and early problems to this approach, but I would love the feedback of all you seasoned players out there. First off, to me there seems to be sort of two avenues of play regarding the word natural -- I feel like on one hand there are some amazing cities out there which have a natural look, with many manhours pre-shaping the terrain, heavily editing growth possibilities, and laying down amazing looking road networks, and then delicately crafting the cities with ploppables to achieve simply unparalleled realism and looks... all crafted pretty much to the expectations and idea the artist had for these creations before beginning them. On the other hand, I think there is a method more aimed at natural growth, where the primary mindset is to go into the region with practically zero or very little preconceived plans about how the region will develop and turn out, and simply play the game according to how you envision the sims actually expanding and growing their towns/cities and road networks. With this method, players play the game wanting to create extremely amazing looking cities in the long run (like the first method), but they are interested in letting it happen as naturally as possible. There is almost a sense of wonder while playing, and the region takes on a life of its own (not to say it doesn't in the first method). To clarify, I don't think one method is better than the other, and there is certainly crossover and it's not so black & white. Each method contains a bit of the other. Perhaps the first method is more about natural look, and the latter method is more about natural growth. One day I hope I can handcraft a spectacular city worthy of a CJ, but for now I think I want to focus on natural growth first and foremost, with a natural look being the secondary focus. In fact, just with discussion with a friend in the Discord channel, I described my love for city-builders like this: "What excites me the most about city builders is the not knowing, the not knowing where your downtown sector will develop, the not knowing where your first freeway will need to go." Hopefully this helps you understand my core motives at this present time. Anyways, here are some of my early philosophies/approaches I try to keep in mind while going for this natural growth method: First I identified likely spots where settlements would form, such as next to lakes, or along rivers. I started about 8 small, isolate villages with only low density and farmlands. I barely built them up at all, basically just a few months of game time. Next I built dirt streets (SAM portion of NAM) to act as paths between the settlements. I first branched out from where I imagined the settlers first making landfall in the region, and then tried to make realistic decisions about where the trail would go next. My focus here is basically the path of least resistance. I follow contours of the land, I try to cut through clearings or the portions of woodlands where the trees are not as dense. If a path can go straight and steady, it does. After my villages were connected, I cycled back through each city-tile and played for about 3 or 4 in-game years. I continued only using dirt streets to expand, and only according to RCI demand. Again, all low density. Some of the earlier posts I've read on this method emphasized that you basically only provide services as the people demand them. Just like in real life, things typically go long overdue before the service is provided or upgraded. I focused on building dirt roads to clearings and riversides where I would zone for farmlands. I expanded residential areas to eat up the clearings closest to them. After my first 4-year cycle through, I cycled back through each city-tile again. However, for my 2nd pass I started going in the order of whichever cities had naturally become the most populous. On those populous cities, residential demand was through the roof, so I continued residential expansion into available clearings. I continued focusing in farmland expansion on the outskirts of the bigger towns, and for all the other city-tiles on the outskirts of the bigger towns, emphasize was on farmlands. Some of the bigger towns have starts asking for fire protection and medical care, to which I obliged on some of them. And that's currently where I am, about 8 to 9 years into region development. Here is what my region is looking like so far: While I'm happy with the region look, and mostly ok with my individual cities looks, I'm also definitely running into some possible issues, and understanding this is going to be a big learning experience. I didn't expect to master anything right off the bat, and I have a LONG way to go to even become decent at this approach. I'm just going to not beat myself up, but let myself learn from this, and hopefully learn from all of you who are much more experienced in creating both natural growth and natural look. Here are some of my ongoing early "problems" or issues I keep thinking about or wondering: Should I build my paths/roads first, or my villages? When should I upgrade from dirt paths (streets) between my villages, to actual roads? I guess these thoughts kinda keep going back to my idea about the two avenues of "natural" gameplay. Part of me is tempted to just pre-shape and lay down some amazing road networks (which of course will take a lot of practice in and of itself). On the other hand, I want to let my villages grow to the point where it feels proper that they would finally get an actual paved road. Some of the bigger towns have upgraded to red brick streets (but of course these are still just streets for the simulation aspect). This natural approach with road networks may be what fascinates me the most about the play style. I have NO idea where the first freeway will be! It's exciting to not know! I have an idea where it may happen, but allowing the demand to just happen naturally is extremely exciting to me. I'm at the point where many of my streets in my biggest towns are showing red congestion, so I think I'm ready for some roads to start popping up, but it's a bit daunting, and I'm not sure how to proceed quite yet. Should new roads be constructed on top of the old dirt paths? Also, when should road networks destroy previously existing development? These thoughts are a slight hassle. When should I offer plumbing and widespread electricity? Right now I'm just using wind power, mostly around all the farmlands. I almost wish I didn't need to offer any electricity for a long while (perhaps I didn't?). I think I'm on the brink of plopping a coal plant somewhere, which I'll probably put on one of the outskirts of the most populous cities. Perhaps for realism, I should put it in one of the more hilly or mountainous tiles. As for plumbing, what's strange to me is that my sims aren't really complaining about no widespread water yet. I think I'm going to wait a bit longer on plumbing, and again, only for the more populous and therefore wealthy towns. Even trying to emphasize natural growth, I feel my towns grew very quickly and have perhaps become a bit more gridlike than I preferred. I'm mostly happy with the look of my towns, but I feel perhaps I allowed the residential areas to develop and sprawl a bit too quickly. There are farms on most the outskirts, but I almost feel like the residential sectors are too big right now considering how much of the wilderness isn't covered with farms yet. Part of this is also me trying to understand, in the wealthy towns, grids aren't necessarily a bad thing. Take a look at NYC in 1890, it was already extremely gridlike. I think the more a city grows, the more likely the infrastructure will need to become more rooted in structured math (aka grids). When should I start swallowing farmlands or already established areas vs. When should I continue expanding horizontally to nearby clearings? When should I start destroying denser forests for new development? This might be one of the hardest things for me to figure out. I'm obviously not quite there yet, but since my demand for residential continues to be through the roof, I find myself asking the following: Should I start to zone Medium Density residential, Should I create more Low Density residential in nearby clearings (continue expanding horizontally), or Should I start to have residential areas swallow up farms and I just place more farms further away on the outskirts? I'm trying to determine what is more realistic. Since I explained I feel my towns perhaps have already expanded too quickly (residentially speaking), I kinda feel like if I just have residential start swallow farms already than it's not very realistic. I guess those are my primary concerns at this time. Sorry this turned into a massive post, I just love the concept of this playstyle, and I'm eager to learn from you all on how you go about this, and what tips and recommendations you have for me. While I'm certainly open to you recommending assets and mods to assist with this playstyle, I'm mostly interested in your strategies and philosophies that will help me learn! Lastly, I'll share some more pics of what I currently have so you can form a more complete idea/opinion, and better give advice. This here is Grandtrix, where most of the settlers decided they wanted to live after making landfall in a settlement south of here: Grandtrix is the most populous town in my region right now. Based on some of my earlier points, the things I'm unhappy with involve the quick horizontal sprawl of residential, and how it's perhaps a bit too gridlike than I'd prefer. On the other hand, perhaps I'm being overly critical, and the gridlike development is more natural for a blossoming town like this. You can see there are more clearings to the north along the river, so I think that's where I will being to expand residentially and commercially speaking. Residents don't have widespread water yet (they aren't demanding it for some reason). I also wonder, at what point should I begin to zone medium density instead of low density. This here is Northrice, second most populous town in the region right now, just north of Grandtrix, along the river: In some ways, I think I prefer the overall look of Northrice more than I do to Grandtrix, but of course the same aforementioned expansion issues arise in my mind. Here is Southpaw, an example of a more mid-sized town in the region: Here is Dashroad, a smaller community that I feel is perhaps becoming a more "touristy" vacation spot for the wealthy residents of the region: Lastly, here are a few pics of farmland development on the outskirt city-tiles, away from Grandtrix and Northrice: Thank you all for looking and for any advice and philosophical tips you may have for me! I am eager and excited to learn from you all! Asset recommendations are welcome, but I want your advice mostly! <3

Hi @zahrul3, yeah I would say it can apply to many other city building games! Some games might give you more tools to support the playstyle, but it's more of a player's mindset and approach to the game really. If you apply this mindset to Cities Skylines, I'd be curious to see what you come up with!

I use BSC Functional Seaports... but I'm reading this might be a broken mod. And I also can't locate it anymore. I'll have to do more reading here as to how this is broken, because I've been a bit reliant on it so far in my region. Another option is for you to produce an aest hetic-only port using Historic Harbor, which I also rely on:

Yeah! Thank you for reading and sharing that awesome post @EffTheGrid! Very very cool, and you've definitely embraced the natural growth style! I appreciate you sharing, because I often refer back to many of the visuals in this thread when I am thinking about how my villages will expand. My villages still have a bit more winding-path vibes (as one of the previous posts showed off some early European villages I believe). My villages are mostly focused on fishing, farming, logging, and mining still. However, in time I hope to see them expand into full-fledged towns and even would like a downtown metropolis to pop up somewhere. I hope I can expand in a similar way to what you demonstrated. Would love to see more from you, so don't be shy if you ever want to share more. Do you have a CJ as well? PS: Oh oh, also I wanted to point out that it appears your understanding and use of the NAM road angles is phenomenal. How did you learn all that? I'm still using NAM streets so that's another reason my villages are more windy-pathed. I don't think the streets can create the same angles the roads can. But once I upgrade to roads I plan to make more use of the road angles like it appears you are.

After 20 years, I still view SimCity 4 to be the best city builder ever created. I'll try to give some bullet points why: It is more than just a traffic simulation In my opinion it's the most artistic representation of city building Graphically it holds up amazingly well even today (mods help with this of course) Speaking of that, it's highly moddable allowing a very custom experience (though let's be honest modding this game isn't easy, it's moderate to hard) It has a never-ending amount of plot variety considering the moddable nature It allows for a variety of gameplay approaches. As I've outlines in some of my earlier forum posts, many can choose to design an amazing metropolis quickly, or you can pour months & years into building up a region slowly and naturally Regions are ahead of their time in a way, and promote the concept of interconnected cities. I'm not sure any other city builder has captured this same level of interconnection. The maxis vibes are strong: the music, the subtle humor, the sims City tile sizes are great! I'm sure I'm missing plenty of reasons why it's the best... Sometimes I find it to be quite wild that in 20+ years we haven't really seen a city builder as good as SimCity 4, in my opinion. Cities Skylines is "ok", but to me it's more of a city painter, and a traffic simulator. It lacks the same quirky maxis vibes that make SimCity 4 so special. Cities skylines 2 has shown that IP isn't going to be the one to topple the king, SimCity 4. I'm curious if anyone else finds SimCity 4 to be the best city builder even made, and why? Please add to my bullet-points why this game is so special to you. Also, do any of you think we'll get another city builder that ever comes close to what SimCity 4 gave/gives us? I wish Maxis was still around, and I wish this IP was still moving forward. Unfortunately SimCity 2013 was a disappointment in my book.

Hello @felipz_07, thank you for reading some of this thread! Yes, you nailed it... setting traffic at low capacity to start definitely seems more realistic for me, especially when you consider I'm acting like my region isn't even in a booming industrial revolution yet. So it makes more sense for me to set it to low. I've been a bit busy with work, but I'll try to get some screenshots of my traffic overlays, which are still all bright green. I remember before I set it to low, the traffic congestion seemed a bit unnatural for what I was going for. Actually thanks for reminding me! Haha. I will eventually need to re-adjust this setting, but I think I'm still a ways off from needing to do that.

Quick update that I've started using AI (in the form of ChatGPT) to help me develop my CJ! Last night I had one of the most productive conversations with ChatGPT about natural resources, the type of lands those resources are found in, where they might be placed in my game, and how simulated settlers might discover such resources. It was honestly really helpful for me to plan ahead a bit in terms of where resources will be in my region. Unfortunately, I've come to notice there aren't a lot of "early" mining lots available in STEX, I have some lots but not nearly as much as I would prefer. If anyone has and tips on strip mines or vertical mines, or salt/coal/iron/copper/other resource deposits, please share. I might have some of the more well known ones, but if there are any lesser known files I might not have them yet. Anyways back to AI, I was also thinking I might use Midjourney to develop more conceptual pictures of my region. In fact, I wanted to do this for my last 2 entries, but truth be told I get so excited about making a post when I'm ready, that I just move forward without the additional AI art. Mainly because adding AI art will take extra time, and my CJ posts already take me a bit of time to put together. I also considered letting ChatGPT write some of my next CJ entry, but we'll see. Anyone else dabble with AI tools for their CJ, or plan to?

Very much so, it's kind of a staple for my early settlers theme lol. I will likely use it even when my region develops more because the docks just add so much variety to coastlines. I wish I had the gumption to get the historic navy ships set up in my CJ but it seems like there is a lot of lot editing behind that to get the ships to plop on water.

(I apologize for the length of this post! I was perhaps a bit too ambitious and I tried to do too much for this entry. Sorry ) Previously on Uncovering the Junon Vale: Hiddenbeck founded! ~ "Sim Bunyon once again has cut down the most trees this month!" Unseen Lake and Unseen River named, from the mysteriously manifesting bodies of water to the south of Oakfall. Timbercove founded! ~ "Looks like all these logs clogged up the river again... Damn!" Hiddenbeck Timber Co. and Hiddenbeck Timber Co. South branches founded! Pitstop founded! Bridgemaker Quarry founded! Ancient Bridge Ruins discovered by the Tidehook sailors, venturing inland on the Sea's Pride vessel! Tidehook expanded, becoming the largest town in the realm. Tidehaven Island, aka Sleepless Sands is founded! Truthseekers founded! ~ "Seeking the truth about our simgod since... wait what year is it? " Knowers founded! ~ "Knowing there is no such thing as a simgod. " Most settlers in the realm considered these the best course of actions: The bridgemakers west of Graincove were leaning towards naming the river the Slyside River, after the lake that it flows from. Tidehook sailors on the Sea's Pride ship decided to found a new port just to the south of the Ancient Bridge Ruins they discovered, knowing many other settlers would soon be coming their way to study & explore. The folks on Godhaven island didn't really notice all of the exceptional accomplishments of the Tidehook folk, and they planned to continue expanding their territory like busy little bees. The Truthseekers believed they would find answers to the realm's mysteries near the mysteries themselves, such as the Ancient Bridge Ruins, the manifesting Unseen Lake and Unseen River leading up to Hiddenbeck, the growing rocks by Graincove, or the haunted forest north of Port Novel. The Knowers were also intrigued by the Ancient Bridge Ruins, so they chose to focus their efforts there, as well as on improving the roadways in some of the realm's towns. The previous map: Knowing the truth is something most people wish for in life, and one tends to find the truth by seeking the truth. And therein lies the similarities between the Truthseekers and the Knowers, though they may not see those similarities presently; perhaps they never will. While the Knowers focus on what they know to be fact (or what they believe they know), the Truthseekers seek truths to be known within all of the mysterious phenomena of the realm. Ironically, if the Truthseekers found truths, the Knowers would accept those truths as known facts... wouldn't they? And likewise if the Knowers proved there was no Simgod, the Truthseekers would accept this and seek truths in places other than the existence of a god... wouldn't they? Perhaps it was far too soon to tell, for these two philosophies were just getting started. For now they both moved forward in accordance with their goals. The Tidehook sailors whom found the Ancient Bridge Ruins were mostly Knowers, or most would go on to become part of that group. They decided to fulfill their purpose of expansion, and they founded a new port just south of the ruins: Prideheart founded: ^Prideheart was named after the Sea's Pride ship, which made the remarkable discovery of the Ancient Bridge Ruins. The Sea's Pride dumped off her initial supplies for the settlers to found the port, then began sailing on repeated trips hauling additional supplies from Tidehook and Timbercove, including red granite bricks from Pitstop. ^Very quickly, a group of Knowers seeing opportunity founded a company known as the Prideheart Pioneer Services. Some of the red granite bricks were used to construct a shipping station for this new company. Interestingly, the Prideheart Pioneer Services (or PPS as they would perhaps one day come to abbreviate their company name) offered a variety of services, ranging from shipping goods and parcels, as well as ferrying workers and residents to & from Prideheart. Some of the pioneers even offered adventurous excursions if the buyer was wealthy enough, and the pioneer was renowned enough to be worth such a payment. Many of the workers took pride in being the couriers, adventurers, and pioneers of the great unknown. Many PPS shipping stations of similar style quickly arose in various key ports across the realm, including Port Novel, Tidehook, Slyside Lake, Graincove, Port Ravenloch, and Talonway Bay. ^The Truthseekers quickly erected a building in Prideheart as well, a church to worship the Simgod they believed in, and to praise the discovery of the Ancient Bridge Ruins. ^Near the Ancient Bridge Ruins themselves, settlers of all different walks of life erected a dedicated archeological site for the purpose of excavating and studying the ruins, with warehouses for cataloguing and storing any relics that may be found. A small house nearby served as an informative center for any visitors that wanted to see the ruins with their own eyes. While the area was somewhat open to the public, it was very heavily regulated by the Prideheart constables. Meanwhile, the bridgemakers working on the bridge west of Pitstop (mostly Knowers) were very pleased to finally finish construction. Prospect Path was finally completed, with no gaps from Tidehook to Graincove & Timbercove. This was quite significant as it allowed settlers to get to their destination much faster by easily crossing the Slyside River instead of needing to circle around Slyside Lake or charter a boat. ...but the Knowers work didn't stop there. They knew there would be many settlers aiming to travel to the newly founded Prideheart to pursue their own curiosities (which is also why the Prideheart Pioneer Services were founded). They decided to immediately lay a path towards Prideheart, which first entailed a bridge crossing the Unseen River mouth near the Hiddenbeck Timber Co. South in Timbercove: ^The bridge was simply called Timbercove Crossing From there they pioneered forth eastwards into territory not yet traversed by foot nor horseback, which they called the Keygate Corridor: ^Keygate Corridor was named such because the area consisted of a small corridor of water leading towards Prideheart. Many settlers considered this central corridor not only serving as a gateway into the vast unexplored eastern portions of the realm, but that the unexplored east would also somehow be the key to unlocking many discoveries. Thus, Keygate Corridor was the moniker that stuck. ^Another bridge was constructed, since the Knowers were apparently able to construct bridges in their sleep now. This bridge was called the Keygate Crossing, quickly becoming the longest bridgespan in the realm; the new path as a whole became known as the Pioneer's Passage... ^The pioneering Knowers even started working on an unnamed path to the north, on the eastern side of the Unseen River (top left in the screenshot), but they didn't get very far as this was not a priority passageway. ^The Pioneer's Passage continued all the way up to Prideheart where it concluded (at least at first) at the eastern portion of the Ancient Bridge Ruins. The Knowers planned to eventually construct another bridge here... I mean come'on the ancient people living here clearly did! This area must be perfect for bridges! However, the Knowers really hadn't been getting a lot of rest recently, so in these parts at least a bridge would need to wait. Let's hope settlers get paid overtime in this realm. As we mentioned earlier, knowing the truth is a pursuit of many, however when it came to knowing the accomplishments of the Tidehook sailors, the Godhaven Island folks couldn't have cared less. Sure, they knew of the Ancient Bridge Ruins being discovered, and sure they saw a new beacon on that cute lil' island by Tidehook ("What was that lil' island called again," they thought ), but ultimately the were completely indifferent to this apparent competition Tidehook was going on about. As such, the Godhaven folks just continued building up their own idyllic island (much to Tidehook's dismay of course ). First they expanded west and finally settled Westlance: Lancepoint founded: ^The path heading in to Lancepoint was simply named the Westlance Path, after the landmass of which it traversed. ^Lancepoint seemed to have everything, and quickly! Located at the very western tip of Godhaven and pointing out towards Tidehaven Island, Lancepoint saw a LOT of ships traversing the area. There was even a branch of the Prideheart Pioneer Services. Because of the shipping lanes, this port quickly came to rival Tidehook's port. ^The masons of Godhaven were even able to replicate the lighthouse they noticed on that cute lil' island to the west. They named this lighthouse the Godseye Beacon. ^On the northern shoreline of Lancepoint, a field of thousands of daffodil flowers was discovered. Deemed too beautiful to destroy for the sake of any housing, the shoreline was quickly dubbed the Daffodil Coast. Occasionally at night, shadowed figures could be seen rowing ashore from ships in the bay and perhaps stomping some of the daffodils, but what sailors would do such a thing... . At any rate there were so many daffodils the stomped flowers were never even noticed. Not long after Lancepoint was founded, the settlers of Godhaven would petition all of the realm to name the massive bay to the west the Godseye Bay in honor of the Godseye Beacon lighthouse in Lancepoint. This was immediately denounced by Tidehook, whom claimed the bay should be named the Tidehaven Bay, in honor of the Tidehaven Beacon lighthouse on Tidehaven Island. Nothing was settled upon immediately, and it seemed the naming of the bay would go to a vote of the many sailors from all the realm's ports... Over the past several generations, most of the flatland on Godhaven had been turned into farmland, as the towns slightly expanded and were upgraded with red granite brick roads. Let's take a closer look at how well the Godshaven towns have expanded over the past generations: Port Ravenloch: ^Comprised of mostly flatlands, Port Ravenloch quickly became the primary agriculture hub on Godhaven, though Talonway Bay wasn't far behind. In fact, the Port Ravenloch farming industry grew even larger than that of the mainland's Sundown Fields and Graincove. Farmers from Port Ravenloch exported their crop yields to the mainland to feed countless settlers. ^Of course, a PPS branch was right at home in the growing Port Ravenloch. A small community of farmers was also founded to the east, heading into the foothills: Sparrowtail Hills Founded: ^Sparrowtail Hills was really more of a quaint farmers outpost than a full-fledged town, but still their voice was a loud one. Their belief was all of Port Ravenloch looked more like a sparrow than a raven . This led to many disagreements, with the majority sticking to the raven side, but many secretly agreed with the Sparrowtail community. Talonway Bay: ^Over time, a proper port was finally established in Talonway Bay, as opposed to the small smuggler-style dock available at first. Of course, you guessed it... a PPS branch found its way here as well. While Godhaven settlers clearly hadn't noticed much of Tidehook's doings lately, one thing they did notice was the work of the Knowers, both in constructing multiple key bridges in the realm, and in the laying of brick roads in major town centers. As such, one of the more recent endeavors of Godhaven was to commission the Knowers to construct a bridge from Timbercove to the northern shores of Godhaven Island. While the Knowers were quite busy, this commission certainly interested them, however there was much debate of what they would ask of Godhaven in return. While Godhaven was a beautiful island, they weren't particularly wealthy and didn't exactly have skills other settlers across the realm didn't already possess. The Knowers would need to give this more thought. In all due time: Speaking again of Timbercove, let's also take a look in at the expansion progress of the Graincove & Timbercove area over the past several generations, and since the recent completion of the Prospect Coast Bridge: Graincove & Timbercove: ^Graincove and Timbercove expanded fervently immediately following the completion of the Prospect Coast Bridge, for a variety of reasons. One: Pitstop was just to the west, with the quarry producing slabs of granite used extensively by the Knowers for bridge construction and road upgrades. Two: While Port Ravenloch was the primary agriculture hub on Godhaven, Graincove was undoubtedly the primary farming hub on the mainland, with more crop yield than Sundown Fields to the direct north. Three: Hiddenbeck to the north drifted most of their timber down the Unseen River to Timbercove, making this area also the hub for the timber industry. Four: With the new Timbercove Crossing and the Pioneer's Passage leading into the great unknown towards Prideheart, there was certainly increased carriage traffic from every walk of life. Graincove and Timbercove even started bickering over what the town should officially be called, arguing over which industry was more defining of the area, timber or farming. Naming aside, the city (cities?) even became a sliver more populous than Tidehook. One settler noticed an open plot of land on the other side of the Unseen River mouth, across from the Hiddenbeck Timber Co. South and they had a clever, perhaps devious idea... With all the timber drifting south from Hiddenbeck, they could create a rival logging company to snatch up some of the timber and process it before anyone knew what happened: ^They named their timber company the Otherside Timber Co. The founder must have been pretty well off, because they also commissioned the Otherside Bridge to slow down and catch more logs for processing. Not long after this clever ploy, perhaps an even more clever settler founded the Quickfox Timber Co. even further up the river. Would this be a sign of things to come? The Hiddenbeck Timber Co. was going to need to do something about this ... ^The Truthseekers used some of the Quickfox Timber Co.'s lumber to build a church in the area as well (lower left), so they could worship and examine the nearby Unseen River, which was a river that had miraculously manifested afterall. One seemingly normal day while all the realm's settlers were asleep, a truly remarkable phenomenon transpired; a mystical event of seemingly cosmic importance which would never be forgotten... Similarly to the growing rocks that suddenly appeared near Graincove all those years ago, a new formation of rocks appeared out of thin air. However, we aren't simply talking about a small formation smaller than a town, we are talking about an entire mountain range with mountaintops touching the clouds. Over time many of the settlers would claim they were awake to see this take place, but in truth none of them were. Perhaps they were all coincidentally tired at the same time, or perhaps they were made to sleep by the Simgod (if there is such a thing). One thing was certain, the settlers all knew in their hearts the mountain range was named the Loomterra Mountains, with the entire range seemingly stretching from Tidehook up to the Northwatch Tower and beyond! Frankly, an unfathomable distance for mountains to simply manifest. They never challenged the name the knew these mountains to hold, for the mountaintops were looming high into the sky. While the settlers wouldn't have such a view until aerial technologies were invented, you have the privilege of seeing the Loomterra Mountains from a god's point of view: ^The Truthseekers - and frankly all the settlers - were absolutely floored that the world was capable of such wonders. They knew there existed the chance for geological features to manifest within their world, but the never fathomed something could manifest on this scale. It was a miracle there were no deaths during this cosmic event. There even were some cliffs that manifest on Godhaven Island, not exactly part of the Loomterra range, but certainly part of this legendary event. Many settlers felt the immediate priority was to map every nook of the mountain ranges, setting up camps as needed. The Knowers were interested in what resources there might be hidden in these new mythical mountains. With this much granite, they could upgrade every road in the realm... if they had the time and manpower to do it. "In time, in time" they thought. Meanwhile the Truthseekers just worshiped the mountains, and pondered what such a cosmic wonder even meant. After the Truthseekers stopped drooling over the Loomterra Mountains, they finished up the other immediate churches they had initially planned. Over time, a logging trail from Timbercove up to Hiddenbeck was formed, which was dubbed the Truewood Trail. While this path was mostly used by the loggers to travel alongside the river so they could quickly break up any log jams, it was also used by the Truthseekers to build several churches along the Unseen River. Some of the Truthseekers claimed their Simgod had spoken to them and they spread their beliefs in these areas, claiming what they shared was the word of the Simgod. Thus, the nickname the trail received was the Trueword Trail. Riverbend Founded: ^Riverbend is a small village of Truthseekers that formed along the logger's Truewood Trail, or as the religious came to call it, the Trueword Trail. Riverbend is just east of Sundown Fields, along the Unseen River. ^Some loggers thought the town was quaint and settled in as well, though they weren't always sure how they felt about those preaching weirdos. Pocket Founded: ^The next village the Truthseekers founded was in a little pocket recently found after the Loomterra Mountains had manifest, hence why the quaint village name of Pocket stuck.The Truthseekers could kill two simbirds with one stone here, worshiping and studying both the rock and the water. ^Meanwhile, Hiddenbeck to the north continued chop chop chopping away at the woodlands surrounding the town. "Were these massive mountaintops to the west always here?" they wondered, "Oh well, still more trees to chop. Maybe if we keep chopping we'll reach those mountains!" While the logging industry was continuing to boom, they heard some unsavory news of some thieving companies named Otherside and Quickfox plucking their logs out of the water down near Timbercove. ^(messing with CameraPitch 15 at Hiddenbeck. Pocket off to the left/south.) Pitstop: ^The Truthseekers even plopped a church (or maybe their Simgod plopped it... ) down in Pitstop, which had expanded a wee bit with quarry workers building more homes nearby. Pitstop had a monopoly on the granite slab industry for some years at this point, but with the new Loomterra Mountains looming to the north, what would happen now? Lastly, with the newfound manifestation of the Loomterra Mountains the Truthseekers were finally brave enough to venture forth into the forest they've historically thought of as being haunted, where they set up their latest church. They ventured just a bit north from Port Novel, laying a few winding paths up the hills... Darkwood Founded: ^It wasn't hard to understand why Darkwood earned its name. Considering Port Novel is just down the hill to the south, let's take a look at how things have developed here over the past many years: ^Over time, Port Novel also built itself a suitable new port just to the north of the beach where their great ancestors had first awoken into this strange realm. This realm which still didn't have a name that they knew of at least. While the port perhaps wasn't quite as big as that of Tidehook or Lancepoint, it certainly was a step up from the previous moorings. Newport Founded: ^Newport considered themselves part of Port Novel, however to differentiate the latest port from the old port, this area was dubbed Newport. A branch of the Prideheart Pioneer Services made itself right at home here. Overlook Bluff Founded: ^The more well-off families of Port Novel couldn't resist heading a bit further up the hill from Newport, and breaking ground on a beautiful town they called Overlook Bluff, which easily had one of the best views of the western waters in all the realm. One wealthy settler in the area build up a lighthouse overlooking those western waters. 'Say... wait a second...' thought the settler, '...why don't we ever send sailors to the west, to see what exists out there?' ...An interesting thought to say the least, but just as quickly as they had the thought... poof! It was gone. Anyways, the next thought given to them was to name their lighthouse the Dreamer's Star; over time their home became known as the Lightkeeper's Home. A dreamlike patch of flowers lined the cliffside behind the home. ^Dreamer's Star Lighthouse at night. ^As beautiful as Overlook Bluff was, this did end up having some setbacks almost immediately. The wealthy residents of the area could be quite demanding on the Port Novel leaders, to ensure constant supplies and amenities were provided to their community. Additionally, Overlook Bluff brought in many sightseers to gaze out over the western waters, to look up at the stars above, and to see the Dreamer's Lighthouse and the precious flowers. The residents of Overlook Bluff didn't like the "riffraff" as they called them coming into town , and they really didn't like the riffraff bringing all sorts of trash up onto their bluff. What caused the sightseers to almost hypnotically drop their trash when gazing out over the western waters? Nobody knew... . Was it the western waters, the serene flowers, the nearby haunted forest, or the Simgod herself ? Perhaps they never would know what about his area was so mesmerizing. However, at any rate the residents of Overlook Bluff demanded that Port Novel deal with this trash situation at once! ^Port Novel progressing forward with a PPS branch of their own. To differentiate between the port in Newport and Port Novel's first port, most residents started referring to the original port as Oldport. ^(messing with CameraPitch 15 at Port Novel. Past Oldport is Newport, and Overlook Bluff. To the upper right we can glimpse Darkwood.) While we are nearing the end of our glimpse into our settlers progress in this post, there are yet a few more glimpses of their expansion we can still give. With the Truthseekers busy doing their wacky worshiping (those are the Knowers words, not mine... I mean... poof), the Knowers were busy laying brick roads on the busiest towns thoroughfares. Slyside Lake: ^Slyside Lake was becoming quite the tourist destination, primarily for the resident's laid-back laissez-faire approach to life. The quality of life for the realm's settlers wasn't exactly exceptional; it was full of long hardworking exhaustive days for fishermen, sailors, farmers, loggers, quarry workers, bridgemakers, and pioneers of all kinds. As such, the concept of a bit of R&R at Slyside Lake became more appealing over the years. Even though it was still fun to poke fun at the lazy slysiders, it wasn't a secret more & more settlers viewed it as a vacation destination. Besides the PPS branch that found purchase on the shoreline, a variety of saloons, clothiers, restaurants, hotels, and cabarets also found quick residence in the downtown. The downtown square became known as the Cabaret Crossing, where hardworking men would drunkenly spin with their friends to chose the next cabaret where they would attempt to woo the women. Often times the men left empty handed of course, but not without a night of merry memories they would hold dear and remember even in old age. Perhaps some men & women found their soulmates while having the time of their lives. ^A lighthouse was built near the port, and some claim it would shine with a captivating red light during nighttime festivities. This became known as the Rougefire Lighthouse. Directly to the east was a courthouse where Slyside leaders often deliberated over the punishments of rambunctious vacationers who perhaps pushed the proverbial envelope a bit too far in one way or another. The punishments were often light, for afterall Slyside Lake didn't want to keep the visitors away. The visitors brought commerce and merriment. ^The foothills of the recently appearing Loomterra Mountains butted up against Slyside Lake, turning the entire area into a beautiful valley, allowing a variety of vistas for any vacationers that weren't too hungover to go hiking on either side of the valley. Careful not to fall while hungover! A town found purchase on the main road heading into Slyside Lake from the west; a town of which the road would earn also earn name, the Rushmore Road. Rushmore Founded: ^Rushmore was a town venture taken on by many of the business owners in Slyside Lake. The purpose was one of advertising, perhaps some of the earliest advertising of this kind in the entire realm.The concept was to place Rushmore on the pathway leading into Slyside Lake, to give travelers a little taste of the excitement that laid just ahead. If a traveler had a good time in Rushmore, how could they resist the urge to travel onwards to see the dancing girls of Cabaret Crossing? Even the town name was conceived to instill the idea that travelers need to have some quick fun in town, but then rush more quickly into Slyside Lake for the real festivities! Since the business owners were invested in both towns, whether some travelers preferred Rushmore or Slyside Lake, it was all the same to the owner. Further to the west, at the fork where Rushmore Road met the Southpath along with Sharktooth Trail, another little village was founded, but for very different reasons: Perchance Founded: ^(Forgive the pic, I had to stitch it together from two city tiles). Perchance was an interesting little village, founded out of necessity for there being a fork in the road where carriage traffic was heavy. Coming from Port Novel to the north, the Southpath met the Sharktooth Trail which went further south to various small towns and Tidehook. However, the other direction was the Rushmore Road heading down to Slyside Lake. Many young adults leaving Port Novel for the first time would stop here in Perchance where they had to make a choice... head south to Tidehook looking for work on a sailing vessel, or head east towards the fun-filled Rushmore and Slyside Lake. Many times a coin flip dictated the fate of which direction a young traveler would choose, hence the town name of Perchance. ^If the choice was Slyside Lake, often times the traveler would toss their coin into the Lover's Well as they passed by. Perhaps a better name would have been the Lusting Well , or the Drunkard's Well , because usually it wasn't love that was found in Slyside Lake, but then again sometimes it was. At any rate, the recommendation was to forego drinking the water in Perchance. For some reason it always had a strange taste . ^(messing with CameraPitch 15 at Slyside Lake, looking northwest towards Rushmore and Perchance.) Tidehook: ^Tidehook continued to develop over time, upgrading their seaport with bricks from the quarry in Pitstop. While commerce was a'buzzin', there was a very big problem creeping up on Tidehook, and none of the prideful sailors wanted to admit it. They had run out of room to expand! This was especially troubling because the Godhaven folk seemed to have not even noticed how amazing Tidehook's port was, how exceptional Tidehaven Island was, nor how acclaimed the discovery of the Ancient Bridge Ruins and the founding of Prideheart was. For now, Tidehook was content focusing their efforts on Prideheart, but know this... there were the seeds of dissent within the ranks of many a sailor in these waters... . ^(messing with CameraPitch 15 at Tidehook. To the right/south in the water we see Tidehaven Island, also known as Sleepless Sands.) Oakfall & Oxtrain Village: Without a doubt the two villages which had the most remarkable view of the mysterious Loomterra Mountains was Oakfall and Oxtrain Village. Let's take a peek from their perspective... or should we say peak? A peek at peaks!...shall we? (Yes we shall ). ^A stupefying glimpse into one of the Loomterra peaks looming largely above lil' ole Oakfall. ^Oxtrain Village's vistas of the Loomterra peaks were also unrivaled. ^Oxtrain Village proper, while heavily traversed there was no need for any of that classy brick road stuff over here in oxen country. Say, llamas are as tough as oxen, right? With more rigorous land to explore in the area, a handful of farriers wisely pounced at the chance to perform their oxen and equestrian shoeing work at a farrier's camp along the Oxtrain Pass: Faircamp Founded: ^A view of Faircamp looking along Oxtrain Pass to the east, onward to Oakfall. ^Faircamp was aptly named after "Farrier's Camp", which is what this little podunk town was. Everyone here worked on oxen or horses, everything from shoeing to feedin' to nursing, and telling them they don't smell bad too! ^The newly manifested Loomterra peaks were a sight to behold, and these peaks hadn't even been visited, measured, nor named yet! ^(messing with CameraPitch 15 at Oxtrain Village, looking northeast. Northpath runs on the left side, leaving the frame towards Northwatch Tower. To the right is the Oxtrain Pass heading east to Oakfall.) So in a time when the settlers were seeking to know the truths of their world, the world flipped them on their heads (not literally, though perhaps the Simgod could to that, if there were a Simgod) with the mythical mountain-manifestation event that only posed more unknowns. To achieve something so monumental though, did hint towards a new "known" -- Whatever force was at work in their world... that force was likely powerful enough to destroy the entire world. But so too was this force likely able to make the world a utopia. This line of thought caused the Truthseekers to ponder prayer, to ask the Creator to continue to demonstrate such feats. The Knowers just laughed and said they would continue to play the hand that was dealt to them; they believe asking the clouds for miracles was fruitless. 'No, no,' they thought... 'the settlers must be the authors of their own miracles.' There was one thing all the settlers did agree on however... somehow, somewhere, somewhen soon... they were on the brink. On the brink of what? Unknown. But it was known they were on the brink of something that would change the course of their existence forever. However, pondering such silly thoughts of sims is unbecoming of gods, or whatever you are, so instead let's look at the map of the latest expansions of our settlers: A closer look to the North: The majority of settlers agreed, these were the most pressing matters that needed consideration next: What should the Knowers ask of Godhaven Island as payment for the requested bridge? What Industry is more vital to the Graincove & Timbercove area? The Hiddenbeck Timber Co. plans to take Otherside & Quickfox to court, for their filthy log snatching! However, not many towns even have courts! What town should be petitioned to take on a case of this magnitude? What approach to the Overlook Bluff trash situation should Port Novel recommend to the realm? What is the most deserving name to label the bay by Tidehook and Lancepoint? *(I'll always do my best to honor the votes, but please note if voting is slow I may get impatient and move forward with my own choices) Updates of Uncovering Junon Vale Prideheart is founded! ~ "Did Godhaven see this place yet?" Prideheart Pioneer Services branches found in many of the realm's largest port towns. "We aren't disgruntled, that's just how pioneer's sound!" Prospect Path Bridge completed, allowing direct carriage traffic from Tidehook to Graincove & Timbercove. Timbercove Crossing Bridge completed, starting the passage eastwards into lands unknown, towards Prideheart. Keygate Corridor named. "Keygate Strait just doesn't sound as cool..." Keygate Crossing Bridge completed, allowing passage across the Keygate Corridor waterway. Pioneer's Passage laid from Timbercove to the shoreline east of Prideheart. Westlance Path laid from North Ravenloch to the western tip of Westlance. Lancepoint is founded! Home of the Godseye Beacon Lighthouse. "Say, what has Tidehook been up to these days? We don't talk much anymore..." Daffodil Coast named. "Who would stomp flowers? Say, is that a Tidehook ship out in the bay? " Port Ravenloch greatly expanded, becoming the realm's largest agricultural center. Sparrowtail Hills is founded! "Sparrows are cuter than ravens! Who cares if they aren't as smart?" Talonway Bay greatly expanded, now with a bonafide port; not far behind Port Ravenloch in food production. Graincove & Timbercove greatly expanded, becoming the most populous town (towns?) in the realm! Both the farming & timber industries are boomin'. Otherside & Quickfox Timber Companies founded. "Log possession is 9/10ths the law." Loomterra Mountain Range magically manifests, ranging from Tidehook to beyond the Northwatch Tower. Smaller unnamed mountains also manifest on Godhaven Island. Truewood Trail is laid from Timbercove to Hiddenbeck, allowing loggers quick access along the river to clear any would-be log jams. The Trutheekers call it the Trueword Trail instead. Riverbend is founded! "Naming towns creatively isn't our strong suit, but hey our town has a cool river to look at!" Pocket is founded! "The dresses in pocket DO in fact have pockets!" Pitstop slightly expanded. Darkwood is founded! "This is no longer the haunted forest, we now decree it the haunted-esque forest..." Newport is founded! "If Port Novel builds a newer port somewhere else we are screwed!" Overlook Bluff is founded! Home of the Dreamer's Star Lighthouse. "No littering!" Port Novel expanded, referred to as Oldport to differentiate from the new port. Slyside Lake greatly expanded! The legendary Cabaret Crossing is known all across the realm, for their renowned saloon showgirls! Now home to the Rougefire Lighthouse. Rushmore is founded! Rushmore Road is named, which connects Southpath to Slyside Lake, running through Rushmore town. Perchance is founded! "Drinking the water from Lover's Well might not taste great, but it sure does turn a profit!" Tidehook is... only slightly expanded, while the boastful sailors have no nearby land to expand to. Oxtrain Village slightly expanded. Faircamp is founded! "Come shop for the latest style of oxen shoes! [Fine print: there is only one style of oxen shoe]" Truthseekers build their churches in/near towns closest to all the realms unexplained phenomena. Knowers upgrade the thoroughfares of the realm's most populous town centers to brick roads. (Phew... like I said sorry for the long entry, but THANK YOU so much for reading, voting, and/or commenting!)

Happy New Year Simtropolis! I am endlessly grateful for @Cyclone Boom and @CorinaMarie and the countless other moderators and players who keep this community moving forward! Not only are there new creations from skilled players always coming in, there is still new mod content coming out for SimCity 4, giving this legendary game a life far far longer than most other video games. I'm so grateful for that because no other city builder has even come close to making me as happy as SimCity 4. I'm really glad the game inspires you all to feel the same way. I'm not really big on resolutions since I usually fail lol, but this year I'd like to remain consistent with playing and making progress on my CJ (no more year long gaps). IRL I would like to become more active again (I've struggled with this since covid), like when I used to climb mountains and go hiking. I don't like feeling like my adventuring days are behind me. So those are my resolutions, to get more active both IRL and to remain active with my CJ.

Merry Christmas Simtropolis! It still amazes me that the game gives us these serene snowy mountaintops on Christmas Day. It also amazes me the game and this community are still going strong. Don't ever stop creating, don't ever forget about the community that Simtropolis is! Hope today is a good day for all!

Thanks for reading and voting @Cyclone Boom! I have a little break from work for a bit so hoping to start my next entry soon.

Hi @Rady, I believe what you're looking for is Historic Harbors:

Previously on Uncovering Junon Vale: Settlers had awoken in this strange new land. Port Novel was founded! ~ Families farm and hunt and fish. From Port Novel: Explorers were sent by ship to map the waterways. Explorers were sent by foot south to settle coastal flatlands. Explorers were sent east to settle flatlands and explore a ravine. The haunted forest is clearly much too haunted for exploration ! Northbite was founded! Midfin was founded! ~ They are stubborn and think their peninsula is a shark fin not a shark tooth! Southpath connects Port Novel to Northbite. Sharktooth Trail runs through the southern sharktooth-like peninsulas The ship of explorers returned from their monthslong journey, bringing a mindblowing map of the region and all its waterways. Of course, there is no way to know what awaits inland... until we go explore and settle those lands! ~ A new hidden lake is discovered relatively close! The area surrounding Port Novel: For a generation, the settlers who awoke on the beaches built up their homes and their community, domesticating animals and, making the woods surrounding Port Novel theirs. It was an endless job of survival at first, but in time they grew comfortable with their surroundings and decided to explore the region. The next many generations of our settlers would continue this task, growing their families larger, expanding their villages, and seeking understanding and discovery of the land and their purpose. (artwork by andanguyen.deviantart.com) After learning of the nearby hidden lake, settlers were quickly sent south along the Southpath to a nearby valley that seemed to veer towards the lake. They would begin to lay a trail down: After making some progress, the explorers were absolutely amazed at the lakeside valley they discovered: It was immediately very clear this would be an excellent place for farming, fishing, and just a pretty darn sweet spot to live . Who doesn't want to wake up next to a hidden lake every morning? This generation of expansionists decided to start building up a community right away. Word spread very quickly of the idyllic conditions of the hidden lake valley. Meanwhile, east of Port Novel, the explorers tasked with venturing into the irresistible ravine were making good work laying down their trail along the traversable terrain. While doing so, they discovered another valley/ravine heading north. It would remain unexplored for now, though it was certainly a promising spot to the north, and hey this forest doesn't look haunted at all! So it's got that going for it . It's toilsome and rough land, but in time the path snakes its way through the hilly landscape: Sadly, as the months passed, it became commonplace for many of the more clumsy trailblazers to fall from various precipices along the path, leading to injury or death (usually while hauling supplies). The supplies needed for laying a trail of this nature were mountainous in their own right. It became paramount for teams of oxen to haul the supplies and tools, as well as food & water needed to sustain our brave pathmakers as they ventured deeper into the land. As such, the path through the ravine became known as the Oxtrain Pass. Over time, a pitstop for supplies, and a last respite before the ravine took root near the trailhead. Oxtrain Village founded: Oxtrain Village was a busybee place in its early days, with various stableboys washing and setting up tack for horses and oxen. Here was the main stable that took root at the trailhead to Oxtrain Pass: Pastures were also abundant for the many beasts of burden stabled in these parts: Many travelers agreed the village was a great spot to rest sore feet, although it did always smells a little funny for some reason... Meanwhile, the idyllic community by the hidden lake has blossomed into quite a desirable spot. Slyside Lake founded: Named for its sly-like hidden nature, Slyside Lake becomes a migratory location, pulling families from some of the other established villages. With growing families in Northbite and Midfin, the need to continue expansion even further south along Sharktooth Trail is commenced. As time passes, many new coastal towns make a move. Sharpbend Founded: a small village on the southernmost "sharktooth" (or shark fin according to Midfin ) Pebbleplum Founded: a narrow little cliffside village along the coast, further south of Sharpbend. Aptly named due to all the pebbles that frequently plummet from the looming cliffs. Sore heads are quite common in Pebbleplum, but hey if it doesn't kill ya' it makes your head stronger. Tidehook Founded: Named such for the way the tide hooks around this large peninsula, as the water flows out from the large unnamed river (which itself comes from deeper inland). Finally, after much blood, sweat, tears (and oxen poop), the Oxtrain Pass busts through the rough hills and descends into flatlands once again. Other than groundwater, there is no larger body of freshwater nearby however. Oakfall Founded: Much like Oxtrain Village (on the other terminus of Oxtrain Pass), Oakfall is a town where all eager explorers rest their weary feet after making it through the rough mountain path in one piece. It's said once a traveler makes it hear from Oxtrain Village, the fall right on their face like a falling Oak in the forest. Also, most folks agree Oakfall smells way better than Oxtrain Village (but not by much). ^Wagon trains tacking up and loading up for the trip back to Oxtrain Village This generation is off to an ambitious start exploring and expanding! The leaders, having been updating their maps often, convene to consider the next courses of action. Some of the ongoing topics of discussion during this gathering are: Available flatlands and fresh water for farming are limited, while families continue to grow and grow and grow! What are these settlers, part rabbit? With Tidehook, Slyside Lake, and Port Novel, we now have 3 growing port communities. Most ships are being used for fishing, but perhaps we should send a ship of settlers to settle across the bay? To settle on the large island south of Slyside Lake? To settle elsewhere? What is beyond these lands? Where did we all come from? Perhaps we should send an ambitious group of scouts to the farthest edges of this region, searching for other traces of civilization? Updated map: A closer look at the immediate area: Updates of Uncovering Junon Vale: An unexplored ravine heading north (perhaps past that spooky haunted forest) was found while laying trail for Oxtrain Pass. Oxtrain Village is founded! ~ It smells a little funny, but it's ok Slyside Lake is founded! ~ "Can we go there, Can we go there?" cry all the settlers. Sharpbend is founded! Pebbleplum is founded! ~ Today's forecast is 60% chance of light stony rain Tidehook is founded! An unexplored island calls to many of the sailors of Tidehook, as do the lands across the bay (Wait, are those mermaid calls? This should be safe, right?) Or should they explore the giant island southeast? Oakfall is founded! ~ smells much better than Oxtrain Village Oxtrain Pass connects Oxtrain Village and Oakfall.

Oof what a dilly of a day at work, I'm exhausted. Thanks reading, commenting and voting Cori, I really appreciate that. Thanks. Yeah I try to make the little towns a bit more fluid early on, and over time they will become more grid-like. I recall on my Natural Growth forum thread, someone posted some birdseye images of old villages in the 1700s (I think it was the 1700s), and a lot of them had more curved pathways and such. Over time cities become more grid-like (which you helped me realize with many of the historical maps you've shared too). I suspect as some farmland starts getting swallowed up in time, the new neighborhoods will become a bit more structured. Haha yep, the hand of simgod does what it wants. Luckily I don't think our sims can see that but hey I'm not sure, maybe they see a giant arrow flying around in the sky. =p

Hello everyone, just wanted to report that I've submit my latest entry into my natural growth CJ! This is my largest entry yet; I apologize for getting carried away! There is some interactive voting as usual, and I'd love your feedback on how you feel my settlers would naturally react to the problems they face. Thanks!

Just a few quick pics messing with CameraPitch 15. I'm still learning the best angles so please provide constructive criticism if you have any. I notice a lot of the buildings I use seem to get a bit skewed, but these pics look decent enough I thought.

Thanks @TheMurderousCricket that is very helpful, I"ll likely download that mod you linked in your thread which increases the decomp rate. Also I think I'll use this incinerator once my sims develop this tech (they are very close to something like this: @CorinaMarie do you know if this is the incinerator you were talking about?

I remember this topic used to cause some disagreements. Personally I was always very interested in where this discussion went, because I viewed it as something that could very much help new players trying to get into the game, but having 20+ years of mods they need to catch up on and they can easily get lost in. Having an extensive plugin folder readily shared with them would get them right into the fun sooner.

Thanks Cori, I think I"m going to do something similar in most tiles then, as that's kinda the middens-like approach, and yeah I figured I'd try to hide them in little depressions. I'll have to look for that sc3000 incinerator. While I don't need it now I could use it later for sure.

I'm not an expert in this matter, and I'm sure it varies on what mod you may not have, but from my understanding if you load a city tile and you don't have texture files for certain lots, you'll get the "brown box of death" lot. Kinda like this: Other mods may crash the game if you don't have the right files. I think flora/terrain/water texture mods can sometimes cause crashes if you don't have them. Like I said I'm not an expert or anything though, so hopefully others have some more information.

My region is growing more and more and I'm closing in on my next CJ update soon. That said, I've started to notice some trash in my cities; I guess nobody taught my sims any manners. Now that I've noticed this, I'm likely going to add this as a topic in my next CJ update, and I'm guessing my sims will need to figure out where they plan to dump their garbage. Since as you all know I"m kinda big on natural growth, I've done a little research into the history of waste management, dating back to 3000 BC (that we know of): https://www.commercialzone.com/a-brief-history-of-waste-management/ I haven't really applied an official year to my sim's world, but I suppose in my imagination they are just before an industrial revolution, so likely the equivalent of around 1750 or so. These two entries from the article I linked seem to apply to me presently. 1657 | New Amsterdam (now Manhattan, New York City) passes the first anti-littering law, making it illegal to throw or leave waste in the streets. 1757 | Ben Franklin starts the first street cleaning service and encourages the public to dig pits in the earth to dispose of waste. So I think at first I'll start by turning on the "Paper Waste Reduction Program" city ordinance, but as I mentioned above I for sure need to start thinking about a more suitable solution for the here and now. First incinerators weren't really popular until the late 1800s I'm seeing, and my region isn't quite of that equivalent tech yet. I noticed other than landfills I don't really have any waste management options. I've perused the STEX but wasn't able to see much other than maybe Lifelike Landfills, so I was curious if anyone is aware of any garbage/landfill/waste management mods that might go well with a natural growth approach? Even if you don't have any mod suggestions I'd be interested in hearing about or seeing your approach to landfills and waste management. How do you choose what tile is the garbage city? UPDATE: I've come to learn that before landfills most villages used what is usually known as a midden, or essentially a pit for dumping their trash in. I am still researching middens, but I believe most of them were found along coasts and shorelines: https://www.thoughtco.com/midden-an-archaeological-garbage-dump-171806

o/ Does anyone know if there is a limit to how many signposts you can have in a city tile? Thanks!

Thanks Cori, I'll have to mess with the settings more. It seemed like many of the buildings I'm using didn't like the settings, like the rural seaport and some of the historic harbor pieces.

Does anyone know the default Pitch value? I see that the default Yaw value is 22.5, but there seems to be a range of default Pitch values listed. While messing around with the camera some of my buildings don't seem to like some of the angles, and when I went back to CameraPitch 30 (assuming this was the default) the buildings were still all messed up looking. I restarted my game and everything is back to normal now, but I think I maybe wasn't resetting the Pitch correctly? Is it 45 as the default Pitch value?