GrayAnderson

Best: SC2K, followed by SC4, followed by SC3K. Sadly, Classic doesn't hold up so well in terms of playability, etc. 25 years on. Worst: SimCity (2013). I give Societies a dishonorable mention, as the focus on placing everything makes it not a SimCity game to me. The main issue I have with 4 is the Region-level stuff (which never appealed to me and which was never worth the effort to get right). NAM and so forth did wonders for the game, but trying to work with all the puzzle pieces was a pain and you could easily get stuck having to re-lay blocks of road that "reverted" if you demolished the wrong pieces. SC2K beats it (and SC3K, which also had some issues as well) out for several reasons...not the least of which happens to be the disasters, I must confess.

Actually, these probably are not cost overruns. Has anyone every audited the original estimates for this project then made allowances for inflation over the delay period. If there are overruns they can probably be laid at the door of the politicians who played football with the project. One of the questions to be asked by whoever oversees the budget for this fiasco is "Who is responsible for the original estimate?". Remember, in a project of this nature, heads roll uphill. My understanding is that there were a lot of issues with the initial cost estimates...but also issues as the project grew, such as lots of bridges that got lengthened and tunnels that grew. Basically, a good part of the problem is that the engineers went a bit wild. The other issue (which sent the estimates over the moon for a while...there was a $90-odd billion estimate at one time that Gov. Brown threw out and ordered the HSR people to rework) is that the Bakersfield-LA connection was pushed back. That part of the project, possibly the most important, should always have come first since it's actually a "missing link" in the state passenger rail system. Add that in and you can extend the San Joaquins (the current Oakland/Sacramento-Bakersfield trains) to LA and start adding serious ridership over what you have now (namely, a bus transfer). Given that you're talking six daily round trips now, that's probably worth at least 300,000 riders in the short term, possibly far more even if you're back to conventional rail after Bakersfield. From there, just extend the HSR project towards the Bay Area in sections (or fill in any service "gaps") like the interstates were, as funding and time permit. Even limiting yourself to 125 MPH operation for the time being (Metrolink has ordered a set of 125 MPH-capable diesel locomotives as it stands), you'd quickly start cutting time off the trip as you went along (10 minutes here, 15 minutes there...it adds up) which should drive ridership upwards and trigger additional frequencies, driving ridership further...you see where this goes. What I have to wonder is if you could get at least a Palmdale/Lancaster-Bakersfield connection for the $10 billion the state has to work with in bond authorization.

My first SimCity game was the original, which I first played when I was about four. I got most of the later Maxis games around their times of release (up through The Sims, at least) with the exception of SimAnt (never interested me), SimEarth (got well after release), SimLife (ibid.), SimHealth (have never found a copy), A-Train (got well after release and never managed to get a good feel for) and maybe one other out there. By the way, this thread has led to me either repurchasing or digging out all of the older games I have.

To make a long story short, I've got the SC3000 Unlimited CD buried somewhere in my desk, but I can't find it right now...and frankly, remembering to drag a disc around nowadays is a pain in the rear following several years of GamersGate/Steam-based downloads, since it's one of the few games left that I'd need a disc for. Is there a recommended no-CD program around?

I think there are two different questions being talked about. The first is "Will there be a sequel?" The second is "Will there be a sequel anytime soon?" The answer to the former is "Likely at some point". The answer to the latter is "Probably not soon." It's seems quite plausible that EA will revisit the franchise toward the end of the decade...for a game subject to such a launch disaster, it doesn't seem to have done too badly. The problem is more that they don't seem to have good luck with DLC/In-Game Purchases. There are some options on this front (I'd look towards what the Cities in Motion series has done...scenario/city packs on the one hand and additional buildings, facilities, etc. on the other), but it's tough going from what I can tell. Landmarks that don't have utility aren't something I'm likely to spring for, for example. On the other hand, all else being equal (and assuming a competent underlying game), I'd pay a reasonable amount for a solid transit model. One irony is that with Steam and other platforms out there, if EA had just floated a decent single-player game, they would have probably succeeded in generating as much revenue as SimCity likely gave them without much continuing expense (servers, etc.).

I agree. I appreciate Catman's analysis, but it's their job to either code around it, or make compromises to have a more fun game. The current city size is pathetic and laughable. The game should be called "SimTown", not "SimCity". If the game is only 32-bit, then make it 64-bit, or code it to use RAM more efficiently. If the CPUs are busy making all these calculations, either make the calculations more efficient, or compromise and make less of them so that city size can be increased. The GlassBox engine wasn't all that it said it would be. It's cool to be able to see some of the game mechanics in the different data views, but the majority of the game is spent with these data views hidden. What we do see from the very moment we start a new city is a miniscule city size. In SimCity 2013, you spend your entire time compromising your city design to fit onto the microscopic canvas we've been given. Your dreams are muted and scaled from day one. Too bad they didn't include the gingerbread houses, playgrounds, and candy stores. (For anyone missing the reference, there was in fact a "SimTown" made in the early 90s by Maxis, aimed at kids) All joking aside, I tend to agree that something is "off" about Glassbox. The "search for jobs every day" principle never made sense to me in terms of realism...but now that I think more about what's being said here, it does present potential issues in terms of city size. Edit: To save a post, the other thought here is that "I want to play the region, not a city within it". That was my gripe about SC4 as well...I don't like having to back out and re-enter cities as part of developing a region, worry about screwing up a region because I changed one city, etc.

I've always wondered if anyone ever did a mod to bump the city size limits on any of the old(er) Sim City games. I haven't found anything, but my searching has been far from exhaustive.

A few thoughts: (1) I'm now prepared to consider buying the game. I was among the many who refused to buy the game after the "online-only" decision was made. I had a whole host of reasons for this, but at the core was the fact that I'm a regular long-distance train traveler and I can be cut off from reliable internet for several days at a go. I do not appreciate being denied what is still fundamentally a single-player experience because I don't have an internet connection. (2) Note "consider" above. I'm still reticent because of the map size issues...and the fact that EA is EA. The latter is a bit less of an issue for me than for others, but it's still there as an annoyance. Ultimately, it affects my price point more than anything. (2a) As to the map size issue: Look, I get that some systems won't be able to handle it...but there's a wide gulf between a 2-3 year old system with 1-2 GB of RAM and an "integrated graphics card" and something with a brand new GPU and 32-128 GB of RAM. What is doable with an "average" computer is not the same as what is doable with a high-end one. (3) As to the mod restrictions: I'm going to put a hunch out there that there will be mods made which (A) aren't distributed through whatever system EA puts into place as a mod exchange and (B) which bend and/or break the T&C. Folks using mods which fall into the latter category may get locked off the servers...but I'm sure there will be a workaround to any attempts to disable the game for personal use if EA tries to go that far.

Well, notwithstanding the fact that it may end up being Origin-ware, I'm at least heartened that the game lists on GamersGate (my preferred purchasing portal). At least I won't have to contend with Steam...though no clue what this means for having to have other 'ware on my computer.

Right...sorry, I mangled which was which. I think of SimTower as SimTower, and all the other labels as "the sequel". I tended to enjoy the Waikiki hotel level; the Tokyo one was pretty much baseline SimTower, and I could never quite nail down what to do at the waterfall.

I'd have to vote "other"...notwithstanding having a few hand-picked Sims be persistent (such as the ones chosen to follow in SC4), the situation is sort of irrelevant aside from its impact on processing power. We didn't have individuals in SC2K, and I don't think we did in SC3K. Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of variation on what existed in older versions of the game (possibly splitting things up by income level in the vein of SC4, or in some other way, so as to have a bit more nuance/consistency to the housing quality, types of businesses, etc.). Broad, quasi-statistical brackets for age and so forth (such as "X number in this part of the map/on this lot/in this tile" or something like that) wouldn't be bad...but there's no need to go down to the individual sim level. That's unnecessarily granular data, and it puts unneeded strain on processing power.

I wonder how much "duty of care" is necessary. There is always the argument: "It's only a GAME". No, it is a contract. At least, that's what gets argued when they complain about piracy. I pay X, and in exchange I get Y. The fact that the contract is for a recreational activity is beside the point; one is paying money for somethng. Now, whether the contract would hold up under a challenge is always a good question (and one that rarely gets brought up). I'm not a lawyer and I haven't touched anything by Electronic Arse or Origin in a very long time, so I can't say, but it stands to reason that if EA were to require a connection to play and then fail to make sure that their end was functioning (absent an Act of God or somesuch...basically, take some standard of care to make sure that they could provide the connection on "their end"), then one could at least get one's money back and void the contract. If nothing else, you would have a claim of negligence on their part...for example, if they up and sold ten million copies, required the connection, and then didn't have the server capacity to handle a reasonable share of those connections at one time, a claim could be made that they simply shouldn't have sold that much software. What a court would say to that is a good question. One of the biggest things that would weigh against EA's side in such a case is that the software contract is one of adhesion (i.e. it is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition), and (again, remember that I'm not an attorney and make no representation to the contrary) my understanding is that the courts have taken a somewhat dimmer view of the power of those contracts. After all, let's not forget that shrinkwrap contracts got effectively rejected wholesale back in the 90s (and hence you got the "clickwrap" contracts of today).

There was some similar stuff in The Tower (i.e. SimTower's non-Maxis) sequel, and it was nicely unobtrusive (billboards you could place for revenue). I don't have a problem if we have this or something in this vein (instead of the Braun Llama Dome, it's the [sponsor] Llama Dome, for example) so long as it isn't obnoxious.

I'm suddenly wondering where the impetus for this "always connected" push came from. Does anybody have anything more than a (presumably) educated guess as to whether it is EA, Quigley, or someone else who got this burr in their saddle?

To respond to an earlier comment, I'd say that some of us (myself included) see rather glaring deficiencies in gaming models that require persistent internet connections. I raised this in a separate post, but sometimes one's connection goes down or one is out of touch with the internet for a few days for whatever reason. It happens. Sometimes it's only a few hours, but when those hours are your "downtime", it matters a lot (for example, when I'm on a train heading up to DC...the connections on there may be wonderful at times, but they can also be the antithesis of reliability when a bad signal patch gets involved). It's not (as I believe someone said) a "head in the sand" attitude to want to be able to play wholly offline. If anything, there are plenty of games where the "online" aspects are rather nominal if extant at all (look at anything Paradox has issued over the last decade for examples; LA Noire is another example of "why is this even online?" being a head-scratcher question), and there are plenty of reasons for preferring the older model of having a "hard copy" of software just-in-case and not needing a connection to play. Connection reliability is one while a lack of confidence in long-term support from EA is another (SC2K was initially released nearly twenty years ago and I know I'm not the only one who still plays on occasion; would anyone here care to bet money on SC5/SC still getting any sort of server-style support in '33?). Yet another is customizability of one's experience through not-just-cosmetic mods (which having to sync into an online "community" with, on some level, lots of things having to be the same can almost not help but reduce).