SoftcoreGamer

I see your points. I'm not sure how much work it'll involve to code an offline patch or migrating server logic to client systems, could be anything from two to twelth weeks. Given the fact that there already is a Solo Mode, and asynchronous connection, it actually looks quite promising. It doesn't cost much to hope... I have perfectly stable fast connection and able system so always-on is not the problem. However I do think those who're ok with online-only need to be a bit more conservative. Nothing to do with EA reputation or Maxis's benevolence. Even if everyone on Simtropolis gladly go online-only, there is no guarantee if EA/Maxis (unknown) sales target for this project will be met. Box office success does not guarantee game longevity. My cities' fate in their hands, is something I cannot live with. My main argument was never against online, but that the sure-success of offline standalone will feed the survival of online if it doesn't fly. At the very least, everyone in the picture - the game maker, the gamers, the community pillars, all need offline option if only as a backup plan.

That’s all core fans modestly wanted, a more complex more indepth 3D SC4 with better engine and simulation. But what they dangle core fans, instead, is a severely “minimized” SimCity with crucial classic game features MISSING. Almost every core fan upset has a "reduced" quality, like shrunken map size, disabled terraforming, cancelled density tiers, locked city numbers, unmovable regional connections, low visibility tilt shift haze, no more farm etc…which can be traced to ONE CULPRIT: Running SimCity on SERVERS instead of User’s LOCAL SYSTEM. Server dependency has caused so many technical limitations, SimCity has been turned into SIMTOWN XS LIMITED. SimCity gods are robbed of traditional creative freedom, due to anti-horizontal policy, forced vertical expansion, removed surface deformation for resource conservation, reduced LOD…all power consumptions that average 2012 CPU RAMs graphics card could otherwise handle with ease if UNCORDED. These power resources will instead be wasted or misused by typical issue-laden installed server program - all in the service of server farms and DRM contractors. I am a typical god gamer, I play the game to pretend I’m a creative god who builds any numbers of cities anywhere any size any shape anyhow I want. This is my idea of FUN. Reducing SimCity gods to mere mortal mayors with LESS control NO freedom, people will go find fun elsewhere. As is, bug-laden Cities XL UNLIMITED is far sexier than shiny SimTown XS LIMITED… From core fan’s perspective, the Loss of Previous Level of God-like Control and Freedom is super upsetting; but for Maxis, that is the whole idea. Evident by now, Maxis is not blind as claimed, but knew from day one exactly what core fans love (and hate). Server limitations are not design accidents or unfortunate side-effects, but planned - as they have said repeatedly - “from the ground up”. The perverse irony is, they dumb down system spec requirement to REGRESSIVE 2002 game PC level, yet demand that core fans must have PROGRESSIVE advanced 2012 elite-class always-on broadband connection at home, or go fly kite. It does say a lot about who their primary target is. The net result may well be…Cityvillers refusing to pay entry fee to another glorified SC Social they could play for free on Facebook, and core fans walking away from a minimized SimCity not designed for them “from the ground up” … Good thing is, these cumulative Deal Breakers could EASILY be turned around: make single-play mode completely independent from servers. In one stroke, hate will turn to love again, rabid fans will become darling long-term customers. Once SimCity is unshackled from Game Servers Limited, whether or not Maxis restore all lost features, modders will then be able to fix the broken stuff.

Glassbox is not even the top 5 engines today and so what if it is the best. Keeping it relevant…what engine game companies use is IRRELEVANT to when they will shut down the server. Game Business Reality: They may shut it down because they fail to reach targeted number by targeted time. They may shut it down because the game HAS hit the target by 2nd month. They may shut it down to pump up demand for SimCity 2014. They may shut online down because offline sells 1000 X more! Who knows. No-one knows pre-order outcome or strategic moves post December nevermind next March. Even top industry analysts or Maxis accountants dare not project exactly when big projects will end. If we must speculate, best go with the average trend, with rose-tinted glasses off. Core fans who never had to worry if their offline game will suddenly become unplayable may have rude surprises in store. Better fearlessly face the harsh reality of game business now than later: Fact 1: the key word is not IF, but WHEN they will shut down SimCity, online version. Fact 2: online games have FINITE, SHORT LIFE, with unfavorable implications to typical gamers. Fact 3: even “king fat cow” FIFA server got an EARLY chop. What fate awaits “minor skinny cow” SimCity? That, is the score of online-only game, from ANY game companies. That, is why typical core fans cannot afford not to ask for a SAFETY NET. In fact, any party who are pro-game-longevity should self-servingly push for a totally independent offline option. All of us here want this game to survive, so there's no benefit for anyone to drown out valid, legit requests for a SAFETY NET OPTION. We must not lose sight of the Greater Reality – that in spite of its success and profitability SimCity has always been a niche game, and with it now online and thus more expensive to most people, it is now more niche than ever! Bottomline: Game business is as pragmatic and brutal as any other businesses. Our wonderful little niche game is a minor in their scheme of things. It doesn’t matter if we think 180,000 copies is awesome success, or we think it’s popular because 34,000 members still want to play 13 months later. It doesn’t matter if Glassbox is really cool, it doesn't matter if Maxis employees care deeply about core fans. If big bosses are not happy with monthly $162,000 DLC sales, if this cow isn’t chubby enough for next quarter investor report, off to the server slaughter house it goes. If we really love this game and want it to continue to entertain us even after EA/Maxis move onto other fatter cows, we must ask for a full-function offline option as a safety net, WHILE WE STILL CAN.

Ask any game customers. More people want to own a game, instead of renting it. No big mystery... Those who feel 1000 offline: 1 online ratio in earlier posts or EA forum poll are not "proof enough", check out general gaming public sentiment on SimCity pages on Gamespot Gamespy Rockpapershotgun etc.. In spite of evidence of core fans being alienated, I still want to give Maxis the benefit of the doubt. Spore fans are the luckiest Maxis customers, they get to play even when the sky falls. Spore started as offline and the online component was introduced much later. This is what Spore fans say on their EA forum… “What would you guys do if the Spore servers were shut down” “...still keeping Spore going without the server, because we really don't need it.” “I ain't worried either I have everything backed up already and doesn't take much space at all.” This is what SimCity fans should be able to say - when EA/Maxis make SC2013 and all players cities and regions obsolete. Spore fans are like The Sims and SimCity players, in that we all custom-made unique characters and buildings and city shapes, unique creations as an end in itself. Unlike Cityville light gamers who’re meh about uniform assets, we creative genre fans are super-attached to OUR unique creations. We want the same freedom and control Spore fans are getting from Maxis. We have been so loyal, modders BATters have been so generous, we deserve at least that kind basic fair treatment. Maxis should reconsider applying Spore strategy on SimCity, specifically Offline SP as default, online MP as option. Show some real sincerity toward SimCity core fans and Simtropolis community. Clear up the bad spirit. Kick start the renaissance. Give SimCity 2013 a chance to become as successful as Spore and its expansion packs.

The thing we need to pay attention to here is not why or how they insist on online private mode, but how server connectivity may impact Single-Players down the line. Here is why core fans cannot afford to settle for ONLINE private/solo mode Single-Play: Single Players Content Affected By EA Server Shut Down Excerpt: “All of the games will lose online functionality when their servers are taken offline in March and April.” “…because there are no more servers with which to authenticate your EA account as having access to the DLC." When shutting down a game server, it is game company’s full intention to ensure EVERYONE loses their game – the server-chained single-players included. Totally logical from their pov, as they need to exterminate all possible threats to their long term plan to create new pent-up frustration for their next simcity version. Those who prefer a game that lasts need to be aware of this. This is a serious issue that can be easily rectified – but only before buying: ASK NOW for an un-corded, un-molestable, un-expire-able OFFLINE single-player game.

What I like most about the video is...evidently, they NEED Simtropolis. Like the pointed questions, even the answers were as usual vague and veiled. Other interesting stuff...the "modules" and stats layers. Bus system is not sexy enough though, we already have a nice functioning one in CXL. Alienating stuff are...over-confidence in new MICRO features, obliviousness to core fan's concern of Losing Very Important Classic Features, calling a mere suburb a city, and lousy excuses for no terraforming: they can't possibly expect core fans to be placated by a mere show of roads doing auto-terraform up and down a slope? Huh? That's evasion, not explanation. Definitely put off by tilt-shift blurriness hovering like permanent mist over every sim towns... Overall, to me the new gimmicks they added are no substitute for all the basic SimCity features they have cut out in the name of server economy.

Forced-always-online is the chief culprit to all the other losses. The two top favorites, map size and terraforming are sacrificed to reduce server load. I' m not too concerned about subway as it could be easily added and is an obvious attractive expansion candidate. If we get an offline version, map size and terraforming problems can easily be solved officially, or with mod. Almost every other losses, such as farms or bridges, can be rectified IF we have offline. Keep looking at the big picture...

Until Maxis comes clean and officially confirm GENUINE single-player mode as Total Independence from global economy and Complete Access to MP benefits, all people could do is speculate... IMO the ultimate point of this topic is: will you buy or won't buy always-on SimCity on Origin, and why? I won't. And I know 96% to 99% of core fans won't. I don't care why or how they intend to impose this sure-fail always-on idea. At the end of the day, as a core fan, I only care about if 1. My Cities Will Be Safe With Me, Saved on MY PC, and NOT anywhere else. 2. I 100% Own the Game I Buy, I Play it Whenever Wherever I Want to 3. I Will Still Be Able To Play The Game After The Vendor Shut Down The Server t Always on Origin disregards all of the above Game Consumer BASIC expectations. So it's a big NO. The other Origin evil side effects like shrunken map size, fixed terrain, permanent tilt shift haze among others alienates core fans even more. Un-cording single-players from the servers, turn around the Origin evil side-effects into positives, will definitely shut up protests and add to pre-orders. The difference of announcing We Offer Total Independence Offline Single-Play now or later, is the earlier it starts, the faster street-level buzz generates interests in both offline online versions. Doing the inevitable after online subscription fail to reach target, will cost more "face" as well as momentum. As is, everybody loses. Do the right thing...everybody wins.

Very very keen to know your sources of the highlighted interesting stuff, which are highly relevant to this discussion, and whether core fans like me will pre-order or not... If they let us keep our precious cities offline and offer online backup for a premium fee, sure, why not. Truth is, I don’t even mind the social / trade aspects - as long as they are options and not forced on us. I am totally cool with initial online activation and regular check-ins. I actually look forward to frequent free/paid DLC (subway monorail) and paying for expansion packs. I am totally game with uploading my “finished” cities to my SimCityOnline page so people can visit and walk around my cities and vice versa. I even like the idea of trading custom stuff with others in SimMarket run by Maxis. But I will never, ever, let any game company hold my cities ransom on their server. If there is genuine private play (total economy/resource independence) and local save then there is ZERO reason for private players to be corded to the servers. The only outcome of tying solo players to server is a severely castrated game with tiny maps static terrain poor visibility no farm, and alienation of core fans. It makes total sense to set single-players free, which will in turn simplify modding processes, which will then allow the compromised features above to be rectified, and thus allow new SimCity communities to sprout like mushrooms after rain. We'll have a Simtropolis Renaissance, which generates an INSTANT BUZZ and boost the popularity of the online version! Still hoping that Maxis will do the right thing...

Neither am I holding my breath... Underestimating SimCity player’s sentimental attachment to their cities is potentially disastrous indeed. Perhaps there exists a new mystery audience with no feelings for their cities...who knows. I just hope that when the pre-orders fail to satisfy EA/Maxis's dream number, they have the right traditional offerings prepared in-advance to wave at us core fans... I will hold my breath for these, yep... The consensus against on-server-play is it sacrificed too many core game features, but that is not even my no.1 beef. I simply cannot live with the suspense of “what if they announce they will kill my babies next month...”. It’s UNTHINKABLE! But I also cannot imagine Facebookers saying “OMG I am so thrilled Zynga is wiping my cities today for next game version!!!” either... What would new inexperienced city-builders do when they figure that out eventually? That is why I shall continue to advice and request for alternative game plan, as long as there’s still a chance... Spore’s survival didn’t come without a riot. Spore customers have become world famous for passionately standing out for game consumer rights. They got what they fought for. The result is a better, more solid foundation for their game. Spore case have shown no game company is naturally benign, and that active feedback do make positive impact... Ubisoft, Blizzard, EVE online have been humbled by their fed-up core fans' boycotts and active protests. SimCity core fans are quite diplomatic in contrast, maybe because it is a peaceful non-competitive relaxing solo game at heart. Nonetheless, never underestimate the power of passively abstaining from shiny distractions... What else could the ignored, sidelined core fans do, anyway?

I agree with most, particularly the highlighted bits. Because the game architecture is an unknown, it may take two weeks to two months to code, it may become harder to re-code later. That is why we need to make our request now, not later. $60 for a year of play is a good deal for games in general. Sure. But SimCity is not your average games - it is a LEGO set. LEGO company doesn't destroy people's LEGO bricks to make way next LEGO version.

Shutting down game servers is business-as-usual for all big game companies. The reason for shut down = mainly "not meeting preset target", less to do with absolute headcount, or the game's age. To gamers, 10 years old game is "aging well". To EA a 3 month todler who failed to bring back fantasy profit for mom and dad is old and deserves to be put out. March 2012 Gamespot: EA shuts down over a dozen game servers August 2012 VG24/7: EA to shut down 17 games servers EA 2012 total kill at a glance Even relatively-young console best-sellers like FIFA and Battlefield3 get shut down. What hope is there for a niche PC game like SimCity? EA/Maxis is hoping unsuspecting "low information buyers" won't notice "server shut down issue". The social types will fail to sustain the server bottomline for one simple reason: Facebookers never had to pay a single cent to play Cityville or SimCity Social. EA acts like the few millions of core fans are a "minority". In reality, they need every last one of us to justify their spending or heads will roll. I have no hope that my cities will live longer than 9 months under EA, or any other game companies for the matter. This is the first and foremost reason why I do not care about SimCityOnline at all, and why I think Online will bomb. Obviously I am not a minority here. Regardless, this could still be a wonderful, long-lasting game. There is STILL time to insure against unseen pitfalls. I sincerely hope they make an Offline patch not to please the core fans, but as their own Plan B.

CitiesXL is still being nursed and improved by very patient city-builders at Nation XL. All it takes is full-fledged official mod support, it will easily post as a threat to SC-Online. But if people are offered a new Simcity Offline... CXL won't stand a chance. Most importantly: When Planet Offer shuts down, people still get to play the offline version CitiesXL. What about SimCityOnline...? Just thinking about my cities being under the inevitable PERPECTUAL ALWAYS-ON DEATH THREAT of SERVER OBSOLESCENCE, gives me a headache...

Time has changed indeed. Everything is faster, esp peak to trough rate. 3D MMO servers are higher maintanence in every sense of the word, hardware, labor, time costs inflated. A forced-online single-player game in 2002 could afford to die a slow grinding death over years. Today, EA average online game lifespan? Less than a year. A forced online single-player game in 2012, Diablo3, bombed within ONE month. SimCityOnline? They should be able to tell how long it will live by mid Dec. It seems the misleading “there is single-player option” untruth is still spreading. Do question: what kind of single-play “option” subject single region to ONLINE GLOBAL economy/crime/pollution/jobs/resource price of Everybody Else? The ultimate effect of Always-On, is Our cities will not be ours in online SimCity. How many people will pay money to nurse and plant fruit trees in BIG BIZ gardens – knowing that the fruits will be 100% owned by them? How many people will jump in knowing Big Biz would randomly burn down your old fruit trees? [Edited] - Terraforming – no more god mode, no more mayor mode terraforming; nevermind real life mayors get to flatten mountains and reclaim waterfront lands. Less is more. Take it or leave it! - Realistic Map Scale – Maps now smaller than CXL; 10 years after last simCITY, we are given medium map for simTOWN. Small is beautiful. Take it or leave it! - Most Basic Mayor Control - Maxis decides the numbers of towns you get to build in a region. Real life cities are tiny! Take it or leave it! - Maximizing System Resource Usage - Severely compromised visibility and graphics thanks to Forcing an Offline game to online. SimHAZE is cool. LAG is great. Always online is the future! Take it or leave it! - Long Living Cities in User's Safe-keeping - EA/Maxis decides when to kill our cities to cut cost or to boost demand for next SimCity. MMOs are meant to die fast anyway! Look how fast Diablo3 degenerate! We have the right to kill your cities, yes! Read the EULA! That's the deal with rent-a-game! Take it or leave it! In one stroke, they killed 99% of what made SimCity fun in the first place, along with 99% of the traditional market too. The 99% core fans majority are being told here and everywhere to stop protesting. The best way to stop their protests? Give the core fans what they want: a genuine offline single-player game.

Please let them how much SimCity core fans wish to save their cities independent of servers. Please ask for an OFFLINE VERSION of the game - with bigger map size and god mode terraforming. It would instantly pacify protests here and everywhere. People may even sing praises of EA. Thank you and have a fruitful trip.

Don't just believe, RESEARCH. EA Steam relationship is OLD NEWS. It's really not that hard. It is indeed laughable, that "The Electronic Arts-published, Crytek-developed Crysis 2 has become available on Steam again after EA originally pulled the title from Valve's online storefront in June 2011"

Topic reminder: The Sims audience do not care for social, and Why do people feel The Sims core fans care about social? NOT Maxis's grand plan to merge whatevers. Reality check: there may not be any future Sim Franchise Products to merge or separate if they go down this forced-online-multiplay path. Anyone checked EA stock price lately? Anyone pay attention to EA's brutal killing of average-performance MMO experiments? Who won a recent golden poo award and won the most hate company award? Anyone who cares deeply for EA/Maxis's bottomline, need to pay attention to how The Sims 3 audience are horrified by the thought of being forced online. This 2003 Wired article Game Sparks Bad Behavior Online gave clues. Clever game marketers are however repackaging typical unsavoury online stuff with shiny 3D wrappers and selling them to us supposedly gullible Sims SimCity customers, hoping we would bite! "YOU WILL LOVE THE EXTRA CHALLENGE!" "EVIL NEIGHBORS ARE PRICELESS!" "ENJOY THE PAINS OF BULLYING, LIKE REAL LIFE!" The article was written 6 months after TSO launch, during active subscriber peak of 100,000, right before the steep plunge towards 35,000, the final demise figure. All in all, EA captured a spectacular 1% of their target. Evidently, SOME PEOPLE MAY BITE, BUT EVEN THEN, THEY DON'T STAY. Most recent force-online FAIL: over-rated Blizzard tried to trap people with Diablo3 had its subscriber total super rapid rose and fell 60%, in JUST ONE MONTH. 10 years later, they have not learned a simple lesson: customers don’t and won’t cater to businesses, businesses should cater to customers.

Diablo3 is a confirmed FAIL, again, because it was forced online. Like us SC4 core fans, poor Diablo fans waited TEN years for a franchise reboot. Instead of capitalizing on pent-up raging demand, Blizzard turned the popular single-play gem into a disappointing always-on gambling den now banned by South Korea govt. That's right. The actual damage is… Active subscriber number peaked A WEEK after launch at 140000, then drop to less than half at 45000, within A MONTH. Shocking? To arrogant Blizzard and their European investors, probably. But the fans who screamed OFFLINE SINGLE-PLAY? Vindication. Though these still upset customers have much preferred a game they get to play over petty psychological victory... Diablo3’s 140,000 to 45,000 decline curve does echo The Sims Online active sub pattern - 100,000 dropped 65% to 35,000. Very likely, SimCityOnline will repeat this pattern. It’s not like EA could afford MORE BAD PR REPORTS. Star Wars: The Old Republic has yet to justify its SIX years $200+MILLION development cost – the hype has deflated and lost around 50% subscribers in half a year, now going free to play. Stock price tracks market mood, investors see through hypes. Evidently The Market doesn’t buy into gaming giant’s forced always-on-equals-steady-income model anymore. PR has value, it seems. Time to reconsider the virtue of traditional niche single-player games like SimCity - Ubisoft has repented and the fans don’t hate them that much anymore. Bonus of selling Offline games is far less server disasters stinky ruthless PR issues or ugly international lawsuits. All there is to do with offline product is just churning out expansion packs a la The Sims, voila constant income over next 10 years. So why make life difficult for everyone and risk being hated even more? How about constructively hyping Single-Development, Double-Revenue model instead?

Game industry is going through a period of slower growth, "consolidation" or at least cooperation is the norm at times like this. Valve/Steam is the Apple of games. EA/Origin, the golden poo award winner, is one the most hated company. It makes sense to spread the risk across vendors. Let's hope they also spread the risk across offline and online customers. They could even sell that hedge to investors as a positive. In an IGN interview 4 months ago: according to EA/Maxis Senior Vice President, "For now, it has been announced as a PC-only game. It will be played through EA's Origin service, but will be sold in other markets like Steam, as well as at retail. Torchlight 2 and Rome 2 which will be released through Steam will not require always-on to play. It may or may not be EA/Maxis's intention to release an OFFLINE SINGLE-PLAY version of SimCity2013 through Steam. If true, it will be a miracle. I'll believe it when I see it. Doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to dream, ask, and hope.

Brand and sell all they want, customers are not dumb. SimCity core fans did not care f about **SIMCITY** Societies. 100 million The Sims offline fans ignored **THE SIMS** online into a miserable $25 million dollar death. What is it about GOD gamers that game bosses don’t get? Is it because our game feels uncompetitive and undomineering, so we are easy prey material? EA/Maxis can fantasize in their boardroom bubble, but Sims franchise fans ARE NOT IDIOTS. People SEE THROUGH the same old cynical marketing ploys. We actually read fine prints! Really! So bombarding core fans with "You CONTROL You DECIDE You SINGLE-PLAY" is not going to fool us. The fine prints say in SimMaxisWorld only Maxis Controls Maxis Decides Maxis CRIPPLES SINGLE-PLAY FORCES MULTI-PLAY. But feel free to insult and shower contempt on one of the most loyal customer base; after all EA could afford to risk a mere niche product. Alienating customers is the latest game biz trend. Blizzard EA stock steep plunge this last one year, is probably just a glitch, nothing to do with hundreds and thousand of angry online fans. Spore rage was a myth, it never happened.

SimCity and The Sims share many genre characteristics: solo-play, creative, open-ended goals, customizable. Let’s put some historical facts and figures into perspective: (sources here, here, and here) 11,000,000 --- TheSims Offline total unit sold during TheSims Online launch 1,000,000 --- TheSims Online expected subscribers 100,000 --- TheSims Online active subscriber peak at 6th month 35,000 – TheSims Online active subscriber bottom at end stage 100,000,000 – TheSims Offline total unit sold by 2008, during TheSims Online end stage EA only reached a mere 10% of their projected subscriber number. Shocking (for EA not for fans) disinterest from the market. But the even bigger slap is, TS online only captured less than 1% of offline TS players. Wow... Less than ONE PERCENT of The Sims CORE FAN BASE! Even then, this tiny little 1% who bothered to subscribe must have hated Online so much - 2/3 of them left! Was that not loud and clear HATE ONLINE message from SIM GOD-GAMER customers? Was that not a deafening WE ARE NOT AS GULLIBLE AS YOU GAME BOSSES THINK? At minimum, 99% of The Sims Offline customers DON’T CARE about The Sims Online. 99%! And I thought SimCity’s 96% won’t-buy-online-only-Sc2013 poll result was extreme. The magical ratio = 1000 OFFLINE : 1 ONLINE. What kind of business would spend crazy money running after the 1 instead of 1000? What kind of business would throw away instant 10 million copies sure-fire sales strategy and pursue EXPENSIVE PROVEN-FAIL GRANDEUR CONCEPT? One which is OUT OF TOUCH - with reality, with what investors really look at, and especially, with their long time customers. There are hybrid The Sims SimCity players, and also game customers cum investors. SimCity is not the first or only single game being forced online by EA. The result thus far is uneven, but most glaringly - UNSUSTAINABLE. Last few years have seen game company arrogance, horrendous PR and ANGRY FANS everywhere.The stark reality is: EA stock plunged steeply in the last one year deviated far from NASDAQ mean. Time for more civilized and down to earth PR policy, a.k.a. Ubisoft? Their games are starting to sell again.