New Battle Star Galactica

[Sam 163]

I just realised SciFi channel Australia is broadcasting the new episodes as they run in the US (ie only a few hours after). I've missed the first three, the fourth is re-running on Thursday. Then Saturday nights are the first run episodes with a marathon in March leading up to the finale.

I think SciFi have been really smart with this. Its even been billed as "see it before any of the pirates do" by a local newspaper. Normally in Australia we have to wait six months or more after a foreign series has screened in its home country before we get to see it here, which in my opinion is quite ridiculous and just promotes piracy. It'll be great to be able to see them as they screen in the US and then be able to join in the discussion. Way to go SciFi. I'm looking forward to friday (and saturday).

[warrior 169]

I think they'll be 13 cylons, 1) because 13 is everywhere else (13 tribes, 13 colonies, 13 gods? 2) because theres no model 7.

But it's kind of obvious 2 of the final 5 breeding together will make a baby as thats what happened on Earth.

I'm not 100% sure if the 2 people who were killed at the end of the last episode were actaully killed, seeing as the camera didn't turn to the bodies,

wanting to know how the final cylon is resurected, seeing as if there was a body for it download in to, then they'd know who it was, so the body would have to created on the moment.

Also want to know how Earth was destroyed, seeing as they wouldn't have been destroyed by cylons as they were cylons. (maybe each time it happens the roles of the humans/cylons switch over("All of this has happened before...")

I wasn't to happy about the mutiny episodes, there'd better be some relavance, I wanted to get onto the 5th.

Also I haven't seen Baltar's six for a while(the one not really there) what happened to her, I miss her (and all those scenes nice [little] clothes )

sam: Your lucky, wish Scifi was actaully any good over here(BSG is on Sky1 here), and it has to be the most obvious thing to do to help stop piracy yet noone has really done that.

Jonathan

[blade2k5 1,523]

I think it may to turn out that everyone is a cylon.

Yes, Gaeta and Zarek were executed, there's no doubt about it. Adama is not one for much compassion, especially for mutineers and we all know he's been wanting to off Zarek for a very long time.

The Six that Tigh was screwing around with is pregnant as revealed in the first half of season 4.

As for how Ellen was resurrected, I'm sure we'll that find out this week, but I don't believe it's in the same way as the other 7 models.

We already know how Earth was destroyed, just not by whom.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: blade2k5 I think it may to turn out that everyone is a cylon.

Yes, Gaeta and Zarek were executed, there's no doubt about it. Adama is not one for much compassion, especially for mutineers and we all know he's been wanting to off Zarek for a very long time.

The Six that Tigh was screwing around with is pregnant as revealed in the first half of season 4.

As for how Ellen was resurrected, I'm sure we'll that find out this week, but I don't believe it's in the same way as the other 7 models.

We already know how Earth was destroyed, just not by whom.

quote>

 

Tigh killed Ellen before the Resurrection Hub was destroyed so she is probably with the other cylons who haven't been seen in the new episodes... yet. 

Wonder how upset she will be to find Tigh hooked up with a pregers model 6. But if Ellen is the last of the 5 that sort of  blows up my theory about  the interbreeding, she and Tigh would have conceived a child back on earth and they had said cylons could not conceive with each other.

I like warriors idea that it all happened before. and humans and cylon exchange holocausts every 1000 years or so.

Yea Zarek and Gaeta are dead, They took their chance and it cost them.

I think Gaeta had gangrene anyway and would have died soon.

Anyone else notice the cracks in the walls  in the engine room that Chief found?

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: Easy BakesTigh killed Ellen before the Resurection Hub was destroyed so she is probably with the other cylons who havent been seen in the new episodes... yet. 

Wonder how upset she will be to find Tigh hooked up with a pregers model 6. But if ellen is the last of the 5 that sort of  blowes up my theory about  the interbreeding, she and tigh would have concived a child back on earth and they had said cylons could not concieve with each other.

Yea Zarek and Gaeta are dead,

Unless every one was a cylon, they were not.quote>

What do you mean by 'if' Ellen is the 5th?  She is the fifth as clearly stated by Tigh's vision on Earth and the subsequent trailer adds following that episode stating that the fifth has been revealed.  So there's no question that Ellen is the fifth.  That also doesn't necessarily mean she and Tigh would have had or conceived a child.

About the resurrection of Ellen, Ron Moore clearly stated in a podcast interview some time back that the final five did not have multiple clone bodies to download into on the resurrection hub, which begs the question, if she really did die at Tigh's hands like we saw, how is she able to resurrect?  She didn't have another body to download into and that leads me to believe she didn't die on New Caprica and was found by Cavils group and brought back to their base ship where she was revived.  Of course this is all speculation and left to our fertile imaginations because none of us really knows the answers until they are revealed.

Oh, go back to the previous page and take a look at my last post there about the questions I listed that need to be revealed by the finale and lets toss our ideas back and forth and see if any of us can maybe guess a correct answer before it's revealed  That should be a lot of fun and make the next 5 days go by a little quicker

[Sam 163]

Originally posted by: blade2k5

Originally posted by: Easy BakesTigh killed Ellen before the Resurection Hub was destroyed so she is probably with the other cylons who havent been seen in the new episodes... yet. 

Wonder how upset she will be to find Tigh hooked up with a pregers model 6. But if ellen is the last of the 5 that sort of  blowes up my theory about  the interbreeding, she and tigh would have concived a child back on earth and they had said cylons could not concieve with each other.

Yea Zarek and Gaeta are dead,

Unless every one was a cylon, they were not.quote>

...

About the resurrection of Ellen, Ron Moore clearly stated in a podcast interview some time back that the final five did not have multiple clone bodies to download into on the resurrection hub, which begs the question, if she really did die at Tigh's hands like we saw, how is she able to resurrect?  She didn't have another body to download into and that leads me to believe she didn't die on New Caprica and was found by Cavils group and brought back to their base ship where she was revived.  quote>

I think the final five do resurrect, but in a different way that the other 7 models don't know about. I think there is another resurrection hub somewhere (possibly Earth based but not reliant on placing the cylon in a body on a resurrection ship). The Earth was nuked 2000 years before the colonists arrive. The final five came from Earth and have survived that 2000 years so they must resurrect. I think Ellen was killed in the colonies, but like the others had no knowledge she was a cylon and no memory that she'd actually died nor her resurrection. She just thought she'd been rescued when she was unconcious, but no-one knew how she'd gotten there. Same with Starbuck.

I don't think Cavill or any of the other cylons know who the final five are. Then again, Cavill may know, he's sneaky enough and determined the others aren't allowed to find out who the final five are. He's the "priest" and the guarder of a secret truth. Or maybe he just likes to think of himself that way.  

Originally posted by: warrior I think they'll be 13 cylons, 1) because 13 is everywhere else (13 tribes, 13 colonies, 13 gods? 2) because theres no model 7.

quote>

I think you were right. Originally. There's a lot of the sequence I don't get yet so I'm trying to figure a few things out. Especially how the Earth colony was cylon, yet apparently cylons were later invented by the 12 colonies.

We know that the thirteen tribes originated on Kobol (presumably the last remnants of a previous cycle). The thirteenth tribe apparently left Kobol before the others and it was cylon. While on Kobol, the leaders of the thirteen tribes went to the temple to sacrifice themselves (possibly they were taken as the first cylon human models).  They became the thirteen gods. However on Kobol, the goddess Athena? in her distress at the warring tribes, threw herself down from the temple. I think this is the missing model 7. So although there were originally thirteen tribes there are now only twelve cylon models.

The thirteenth tribe went to Earth. However when they looked up they saw their twelve siblings in the sky (the zodiac constellations, but presumably also meaning symbollically the twelve colonies which may have also left Kobol by then and which were located closer to Kobol based on the timeline).

Now I got the impression from the first episode in season one that the cylons were created in the twelve colonies within living human memory as the centurion model (ie not in the mythical past on kobol). The cylons fought a war and left for another planet. They then developed the hybrids and the human models within the forty years since the war. They developed the hybrids and then the human models because they believed the one true god made man in their image and that therefore the image of man was the most perfect form envisioned by and loved by the one true god. The cylons wanted to be that form so they could be as close to the one true god as the humans were and in which they believed, but the humans denied in favour of their twelve gods and had forgotten. Although they achieved the appearance they could not achieve reproduction because they lacked the one element that made humans most like the one true god - true love. This is their plan and what they seek.

Meantime on Earth, the cylon colony survives and creates their own machines (humans?) and the cycle starts there too. The machines create their own human models (the five?) and there is an uprising. The machines return and infiltrate the cylons. The five survive and flee the same way the survivors of the twelve colonies did. I assume they end up in the colonies but that's the bit I don't get, were the colonies already founded at that time or were the colonists decendents of the five, and not of the Kobol humans? If they are, then why do the current cylons and final five register as cylons, yet the humans decendent of the five do not?

Then on the colonies the cycle starts again with the colonists inventing cylons. After the uprising and the flight to earth the colonists settle on a new planet (the equivalent of kobol) and the cycle starts again.

I think Starbuck does die in the maelstrom (possible spoilers - highlight to read --> ), her body and viper end up on earth somehow and the Starbuck with the fleet now has also resurrected using the same method as the final five. So is she the thirteenth cylon, or is she the Goddess Aurora (or Athena?) who threw herself from the temple?

Ok sorry for the crazy theories (based on what I can find of the new episodes from reviews etc). There's at least three possible streams of the cycle in the above. Is it fanning out or is only one stream correct? What was the sequence of events from Kobol to the current episodes, because there are several contradictory ways it could have happened?

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: blade2k5 I'm glad the mutiny saga is over with. To me, 2 episodes in a row that didn't deal with revealing any answers to the many questions that need answering felt more like filler episodes just to kill off a few dozen more in the fleet. Don't get me wrong, they were great episodes, but I'm getting antsy for the answers. 

Now we can get to the important stuff, mainly the answers to all the questions we've been waiting for with the final 6 episodes. Answers to the questions like who or what is Starbuck, who's pulling the strings or orchestrating all of this, how the final five are resurrected when they are supposedly different from the other 7 models, who will survive and who won't by the finale, whether or not everyone are really Cylons, what's the deal with the Head Sixes and the Head Baltar, the mystery of the opera house......the list goes on and on. Are there any mysteries that need answering I forgot to list?quote>

 

We still havent been told what exactly Baltars role is either.

Ill throw a wierd theory that just poped into my head reading Sams post.

Baltar and Starbuck seem to have the same huge sex drive,based on thier actions, could thier be 2 different  sub models of the 13th Cylon? a male version and a female version?

[Haljackey 17,390]

Wow lots of comments about this episode. I feel the main opinion is that this episode, along with the last one, was more filler than anything.

Well, consider this

-Gayta and Zerric are both dead. A lot of key characters are either shaken or injured. The quarm is gone. The battlestar is even more beaten up and has less manpower than before, Roslin turned into a general... and the list goes on.

Its gotta fit in. A preview of the next episode was shown only in Canada, and I shouldn't talk about it here because its a bit of a spoiler.

EDIT:  looks like you did anyway.  Ellen is back

Case in point, the next episode will answer a lot of questions.

Best,

-Haljackey

[warrior 169]

You can watch a preview here, thankfully its not US only

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=996341

I think while this episode was a bit filler, it will set some things up for future episodes.

I think the other cylons have been away too long, it's about time they jumped back and attacked the fleet. Really cant wait to see how the 5th comes back.

Also where Baltars six?????

I saw a preview somewhere where Adama is in his bathroom and see these cracks in the walls, so the old ship is definately getting worse.

Also everyone seems to have forgotten Sam, did Kara get him to Kottle in time?

Jonathan

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: warrior You can watch a preview here, thankfully its not US only

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=996341

I think while this episode was a bit filler, it will set some things up for future episodes.

I think the other cylons have been away too long, it's about time they jumped back and attacked the fleet. Really cant wait to see how the 5th comes back.

Also where Baltars six?????

I saw a preview somewhere where Adama is in his bathroom and see these cracks in the walls, so the old ship is definately getting worse.

Also everyone seems to have forgotten Sam, did Kara get him to Kottle in time?

Jonathanquote>

You can also go to hulu.com and view the last 5 episodes.

I haven't forgotten about Anders, but here's what I found out at the Sci-Fi channel website about this weeks' episode:

No Exit: Anders' condition releases a flood of visions and crucial memories.

EDIT:  Here's a trailer for No Exit someone linked to from scifi.com that's different from the one we got here in the U.S.  I cannot wait until Friday night.....wish I could travel 4 days into the future so I could watch it now

[Sam 163]

Originally posted by: warrior

sam: Your lucky, wish Scifi was actaully any good over here(BSG is on Sky1 here), and it has to be the most obvious thing to do to help stop piracy yet noone has really done that.

quote>

Well I thought our Sci-Fi only did re-runs of very old stuff, old seasons of shows the commercial stations owned the rights to which is why they didn't show first-run episodes. Its nice if you like eighties shows. I was pretty surprised to find they were doing this.

Originally posted by: warrior

Also where Baltars six?????

quote>

A while ago didn't he tell her to go away and she did? She came back once briefly after that but maybe she's still sulking.

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

We still havent been told what exactly Baltars role is either.

quote>

Yes I have no idea what his purpose is anymore. I like how he is in this series compared to the original, and I liked him more in the first season than I do now. He was more interesting then. For a while he was being portrayed as a Christ like figure and at times a Judas figure, so I'm not sure how this fits into the mythology (unless he has twelve disciples?).

Baltar's role originally was to be the traitor of humanity, but everything since the first episode seems to indicate his role is more than this. Cycles of sin and redemption are a major theme though. Perhaps his role now is his redemption which will lead to humanity's redemption as well?

Originally posted by: blade2k5

Now we can get to the important stuff, mainly the answers to all the questions we've been waiting for with the final 6 episodes. Answers to the questions like who or what is Starbuck,

quote>

Hmm. Leoben said "she's more important than that" in reference to Starbuck being one of the five, which is partly why I'm guessing she's the godess Athena or the missing thirteenth (probably they are both one and the same).  I think there is still a missing part of the cycle, which is Starbuck's role in all this. Perhaps she's to be the first of the new twelve gods?

Originally posted by: blade2k5

who's pulling the strings or orchestrating all of this, quote>

I'm guessing the five, although they may not yet remember, but it looks like at least one of them does, probably two, by next week.

Originally posted by: blade2k5

who will survive and who won't by the finale,

quote>

Again I'm guessing five (will survive that is).

Originally posted by: blade2k5

  what's the deal with the Head Sixes and the Head Baltar, the mystery of the opera house......the list goes on and on.quote>

We know "all this has happened before and all of this will happen again." I think the human are a creation of the previous cycle. I think some of them still have remnants of their ability to network with each other and to project and this is what is causing some of them to share the opera house visions and to project other people like the cylons do. Some may be more perceptive of it than others (Leoben also said "the unstruck music resonates in all of us. Few can hear it. Kara is one of the few." I think these people are hearing the "unstruck music" (opera house?). What the symbolism of the opera house is I don't know yet.

[blade2k5 1,523]

Here's a theory I picked up on over in the scifi.com forums that seems fairly plausible......unfortunately, I forgot to copy the link and get the handlers name and now I can't find it

I respectfully have to STRONGLY disagree that the FF downloading facilities aren't connected to those of the 7 modern in some way.  For one thing the 7 modern have no idea how to rebuild the hub, which says to me that they didn't build it in the first place. They found it (when they first found Kobol), and adapted it to their use.  I've maintained for a while now in many posts that the 7 modern found the technology used to create new replacement bodies for the 12 "Immortal" Lords of Kobol, on Kobol, shortly after being driven from the 12 colonies by the first Cylon war.  That's exactly WHY there are only 7 modern Cylon models.  They found the technology to create biological bodies for themselves on Kobol. Only 7 body types ("models") were still on Kobol, because 5 of the "Lords of Kobol" became "The Five Priests of the Temple" after Kobol was destroyed, and they were the ones who settled Earth as the "13th Tribe".  With 5 body types missing from Kobol, there were only 7 body types for the Colonial Toasters to adapt for use as new bodies.  That's why the 7 couldn't replace the hub. They didn't build it, the "Lords of Kobol" did long long ago.  That's also why the 7 see the FF in the space between life and death, they're using the same system the FF are, the same system that long ago was used to resurrect the 12 Lords of Kobol.

I think it happened something like this...

There was a war between man and the 12 Lords of Kobol long ago that destroyed 7 of the 12, leaving 5 Lords of Kobol alive, but only the empty bodies of the other 7.  The 5 left Kobol to settle Earth.  Humanity left Kobol to settle the 12 Colonies.  The 13th Tribe advanced to the point where they were indistinguishable from humans, on Earth, but then destroyed themselves in a final cataclysmic war.  The only survivors from that war on Earth were the FF.  They erased the painful memories of their own kind's ultimate demise, and traveled to the 12 human Colonies to live out lives as humans.  They left a trigger, a memory, the memory of a song, as the trigger to begin the process of them recalling who they at one time were, should they ever return to Earth.  But the 12 colonies had their own war with their machines.  The Toasters, after the first Cylon war left, and at first tried experimenting with human DNA to create a biological form for themselves, (there by creating the "Hybrids"), but that attempt turned out to be an "evolutionary dead end" as Athena once put it (in RAZOR).  Still attempting to become "closer to god", they went in search of, and actually found, "The Home of the Gods" - Kobol.  That's were they came across, not only "resurrection" technology, but the technology to make the biological bodies for themselves they'd always wanted.  There were only 7 body types to adapt to their own uses. The other 5, the FF, were living with humanity on the 12 Colonies.  That's why the 7 couldn't replace the hub once it was destroyed. They didn't build it, the Lords of Kobol did, long ago.  That's why the 7 always saw the FF when they resurrected. They're using the same resurrection system originally created by the Lords of Kobol that's still being used by the FF. (I think the opera house, or Temple of Aurora, is where the memories of the FF were stored until triggered by their return to Earth).  That's why Athena knew so much about the Humans gods. She knew, or suspected, that they weren't "gods" at all, but machines like her people.

I could go on, but a LOT starts to add up once you start down this path.  I still think Ellen wakes up on an abandoned resurrection hub populated solely by abandoned Centurions, and she uses it to return to Earth (she'd know where Earth is), where she expects to wait for as long as it takes for the RTF to find the place. She's probably surprise to find that the RTF beat her to Earth.

Gods help Cavil if Ellen Tigh ever gets her hands on him!quote>

I also posted [with permission from Sam] his theories in his post yesterday [2-9-09] and so far have gotten one direct response from EmperorRyu.....

Sacrificing yourselves does not equal to ascending yourselves to Godhood. Athena said in the episode, "Home, Part 2", "That's the spot where your god supposedly stood and watched Athena throw herself down onto the rocks below, out of despair over the Exodus of the thirteen tribes. Athena's tomb, whoever or whatever she really was, is probably up there." Back on Earth, it is still a nuclear wasteland of a planet at the start of the Miniseries. According to the scans Gaius Baltar did, it was nuked 2,000 years ago.quote>

I'll post more responses to Sams theories as they come in.......

[warrior 169]

Well that was great episode,

spoliers:Firstly , there are 13 cylons I wonder if we'll get to see "Daniel" or it was just made up to fix the writers mistake of calling the Sharons eights. And take a look at next weeks episode preview and remember what Sam said about stay with the fleet, I wonder what Ellen decides. Also poor Galactica hopefully it will make it to where ever its going.

One problem about bringing Ellen to the Colonial Fleet is now Cavil(John) is going to want her back.

So what Sam said is basically the earth cyclons created centurions that rebelled so the five (why only five though?) resurrected up to their ship in orbit around earth(?) then with no FTL travelled to the 12 Colonies to warn them not treat the cylons badly but were too late, Somehow they all survived and got into the fleet, then the rest happens in the program.

So why didn't all the earth cylons resurrect?

Also Cavil mentioned, "all your equipement is still on the other colony" (or something like that) when talking about rebuilding the resurecting hub to Ellen, where is this it wasn't at Kobol or Earth. End spoiler

So who's theory was right, I can't remember the name but someone got that the resurection technology wasn't made by cylons.?

Can't wait till next week, which will either make half term go quickly or the next week take ages.

Jonathan

[Sam 163]

Wow! I really liked that episode.

Originally posted by: warrior

...

So who's theory was right, I can't remember the name but someone got that the resurection technology wasn't made by cylons.?

quote>

I don't think anyone got it exactly right. But I was wrong about Cavill, he's been a very naughty little boy.

Spoilers below (highlight to read):

Whoever said Cavill was orchestrating all this was right. I think he's probably also messed with the memories of the first seven models. They don't remember their creators, nor do they remember that they were supposed to bring peace. They all seemed quite happy to participate actively in destroying the colonies, so my guess is Cavill had a hand in that.

And Warrior was right about there being thirteen models originally, although my idea as to why was wrong. The clues we were given were: his name is Daniel, he was in tune with the universe and he was an artist. Who do we know who fits this description? Starbuck (or at least her father). I don' t think she is Daniel, but she's got some connection, and she was drawing the mandala (sp?) in her apartment. It sounds like Ellen knows Daniel's personality, so I suspect one or more copies of Daniel did exist at some point (ie maybe they weren't destroyed before any copies were made). Maybe Daniel is Starbuck's father? It is possible though that no copies of Daniel ever matured.

I'm liking Ellen a bit more after this episode, it seems she has a heart and is a good person after all. She loves her "children" and wanted to bring peace. Tori on the other hand was quite happy to be a cylon and join in their hateful ways which interestingly enough don't seem to be at all similar to the final fives' postion on everything. I think she's in for a bit of a shock.

Interestingly it looks like Cavill (John) did a Cain and killed his brother out of jealousy. In the Biblical story Cain was marked and became an outcast. Maybe this is what will happen to Cavill when the other cylons find out.

I wonder why the final five, knowing John's sadistic and jealous ways, trusted him with their secrets rather than one of the others.

So what's the story with Ellen resurrecting? Did they just happen to have a copy or two of her body hanging around just in case?

Poor Sam, I think he may be a goner.

Originally posted by: warrior

So why didn't all the earth cylons resurrect?

quote>

This was explained in the episode, by Sam. The final five all worked at the same research facility, trying to re-create resurrection technology. My guess is they only made it to take them, not the rest of the colony. They wouldn't have needed the whole colony just to go and warn the other twelve colonies. Those five were the only ones who saw the "signs" which I assume from what Sam was saying were their own versions of head people. I don't get that bit though. Apparently the head people showed up to warn the five (where did they come from) before Earth was nuked. In the twelve colonies though, the head people only started showing up after the colonies were nuked.

[warrior 169]

Yep I hope Sam stays around, When Ellen was in the trailer was in the trailer for this episode, I thought she would be evil, but no shes seems a good person. And if Cavils so good with minds and brains, why didn't he just download himself into a centurion.

Btw, I forget to ask what everyone thought when "Admiral Adama was shot in the airlock" last week, I was like OMG No way, thankfully it was dream.

Also if only someone else had been there just before Sam went out, and they all glowed, because if thered been another person there and they hadn't glowed that would have meant the Starbuck was probably a cylon.

Yes the thing about Ellens body is a bit strange, maybe the body was created then and there? And this would be different to the other 7, as when the ressurection ship was blown you saw models being sucked out into space.

I think John, was orginally a good boy, but then turned against the FF.

Jonathan

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: warrior Yep I hope Sam stays around, When Ellen was in the trailer was in the trailer for this episode, I thought she would be evil, but no shes seems a good person. And if Cavils so good with minds and brains, why didn't he just download himself into a centurion.

Btw, I forget to ask what everyone thought when "Admiral Adama was shot in the airlock" last week, I was like OMG No way, thankfully it was dream.

Also if only someone else had been there just before Sam went out, and they all glowed, because if thered been another person there and they hadn't glowed that would have meant the Starbuck was probably a cylon.

Yes the thing about Ellens body is a bit strange, maybe the body was created then and there? And this would be different to the other 7, as when the ressurection ship was blown you saw models being sucked out into space.

I think John, was orginally a good boy, but then turned against the FF.

Jonathanquote>

Well you wanted answers you got answers.

Remeber when Tigh killed  Ellen it was18 months ago and the Resurection HUB was still working.

Ellen seems to be the mastermind behind saveing the 5 from earth.

Still no answers as to how Baltar fits into the mix, unless Danial is Baltar, he is a bit immature in some things but is a computer genius. Ellen just made another body for him. Or for Starbuck

It makes sense either way.

[Haljackey 17,390]

What a change in Ellen's personality.  Before when she was in the fleet she was a naughty girl and now she seems to be a good almighty creator.

Interesting change in personality I must say.  If she resurrected before that hub thing was destroyed, I wounder of the other 4 could have as well if they died. 

Its also interesting to note that we have only known two of the Final Five since the miniseries:  Tigh and Tyrol. 

-Ellen suddenly appeared being on a ship in the first season

-Sam somehow survived on Caprica in season two

-Tori came in season 2.5 I believe, after Billy was killed.

I wonder if these three suddenly appeared throughout the show for some reason.  And what about this "Daniel"?  (I have yet to watch any trailers for the next episode.)

---

...And what about the Galactica itself?  Its a surprise to me that wasn't caught earlier.  With the amount of damage that ship has taken along with here ancient age, the old girl must be holding together by a thread.

-It was also noted that she wasn't built exactly to her own scamatics.  This was talked about when smaller screws and whatnot were found where they shouldn't have been.  I'd assume this was the case to get her built quicker for the first Cylon war.  Still, you add that to her age and the battles she has endured, and its a miracle that she has survived this long.

...Not to mention the political stuff going on since the Quarm was killed.

Anyways that's what I have to say and I hope you enjoyed the read.  I'm not making this spoiler text because people should know better not to check this thread if they haven't caught up.

Thoughts about what I have to say?  I'd like to hear it!

Best,

-Haljackey

[Easy Bakes 253]

Ellen Was supposedly picked up by another refugee ship.Then Tigh found out were she was and brought her back to galactica.

Sam was a member of a resisatance group and Stabuck retrieved them when they went back.

All had belivable storys as to how they got there except Tori, not sure of her origins if she was a member of  the political staff all along or Mrs prez just found staff from the refugees.

[Sam 163]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes Ellen Was supposedly picked up by another refugee ship.Then Tigh found out were she was and brought her back to galactica.

Sam was a member of a resisatance group and Stabuck retrieved them when they went back.

All had belivable storys as to how they got there except Tori, not sure of her origins if she was a member of  the political staff all along or Mrs prez just found staff from the refugees.

quote>

Yeah Tori's an odd one. (Spoilers --> ) All the others, John had a hand in their survival. It was mentioned he was the one who put Ellen on the last ship out of the colonies. He didn't kill Saul or Tyrol on New Caprica. He was the priest with Sam's resistance unit, so I think its fairly reasonable that for at least some of them he was making sure they didn't die too soon for his liking. He sounds like the kind of kid who would have pulled wings off flies, now he's doing it with the humans and Final Five. Maybe John had something to do with Tori's survival too, we just don't know yet.

BTW wasn't John the name of the being of light or something in the original series?

Originally posted by: haljackey

...

Interesting change in personality I must say.  If she resurrected before that hub thing was destroyed, I wounder of the other 4 could have as well if they died. 

quote>

More Spoilers:

I've been thinking about that and what I said earlier and I think probably yes. Given that the Final Five reinvented resurrection, they already had one copy of each body for when they resurrected after Earth was nuked. I think it would have been a sensible precaution for them to keep at least another one of each around after that too, in case of accidents on their way to the twelve colonies. John killed the final five and then resurrected them without their memories, so there must have been spare bodies at some point. He probably kept at least one of each around in case any of them died before the holocaust. Otherwise it would have spoiled his fun if they died before they saw his grand plan and before he had a chance to gloat.

BTW apparently there's something in the podcast about Daniel being important. Many people have been dismissing him as unimportant and only to fix a minor plot gap. I haven't got to that part in the podcast yet though.

[warrior 169]

I was wondering how if the Final Five had bodies on a base ship or resurrection ship, then all the cylons would know who the FF were, but now I remember that Cavil kept that room with Ellen in it a secret from all the cylons except Boomer, so he probably has 4 other rooms with the other 4 in.

So do all the 1s (cavils/johns) know about the final five? Also that episode explains why cavil was so against D'anna looking for the FF. Also what do you think has changed, as Sam said something has changed and to stay with the fleet as a miracle has happened (could that be that it's the first time in the cycles that humans have started to believe in one god?(baltar's group)) I say that because Sam said Ellen said everything was different as the centurions believed in one true gods, and miracle and baltar have gone together for a while now.

Jonathan

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: warrior I was wondering how if the Final Five had bodies on a base ship or resurrection ship, then all the cylons would know who the FF were, but now I remember that Cavil kept that room with Ellen in it a secret from all the cylons except Boomer, so he probably has 4 other rooms with the other 4 in.

So do all the 1s (cavils/johns) know about the final five? Also that episode explains why cavil was so against D'anna looking for the FF. Also what do you think has changed, as Sam said something has changed and to stay with the fleet as a miracle has happened (could that be that it's the first time in the cycles that humans have started to believe in one god?(baltar's group)) I say that because Sam said Ellen said everything was different as the centurions believed in one true gods, and miracle and baltar have gone together for a while now.

Jonathanquote>

 

I think the Miracle they mention is the baby.

But they had mentioned in this weeks episode that FF could procreate.

[Kevin 101]

Since the end of season 4.0 I've been catching up on BSG starting with the miniseries. I'm finally caught up and can watch the episodes when they originally air

I think something notable in this episode was the fact that the final five re-invented resurrection. It would seem that all humans are therefore capable of resurrecting... they just ditched it in favor of sexual reproduction a long time ago.

Therefore you can separate "humans" into three groups by the way they reproduce...

-Humanoid Cylons can only resurrect

-The Final Five can resurrect or reproduce sexually

-Humans can only reproduce sexually

Perhaps the Cylons can "remember" how to reproduce sexually, and the humans can "remember" how to resurrect. The latter may require a new resurrection hub, but it seems possible.

[warrior 169]

We've known since 4x11 that the FF can reproduce with resurrection, as they came from Earth and the poeple/cylons on Earth could reproduce.

Cheese, now you say that I'm guessing then a mixed human/humanoid cylon could come under the FF category,

This means that possible the Earthlings are from the previous cycle, and that the humans and cylons are meant to live together and interbreed, and that now something has changed it means the humans and cylons won't live together, and the to out of the cycle the cylons have to decide to leave the fleet, making Cavil/John right in that humans and cylons shouldn't be together, and that cylons should stick with being cylons and not try to be humanoid. So what seems would be nice and right, is actually wrong. Or it is better to keep in the cycle.

Maybe the cycle is the right thing to do, and to try and change would be wrong.

That's complicated.

In the previous cycle maybe the decision to re-split the the people (what lee said to the President), meant most the humans left in 12 groups/tribes the ones who didn't want to join with the cylons (the ones that made the mutiny), and then the other humans who wanted to live with the cylons(maybe Baltars group) left early to form the 13th tribe, then the mixing of humans and cylons created beings like FF, and the original humans that couldn't resurrect, and the cylons that could have babies die out.

Then this can happen again and again and again...

Jonathan

[Easy Bakes 253]

Baby Senaerios

Boomer and Hilo's

Boomer is a converted mechanical( here after refered to as converts ), Hilo was Human.

Tigh And 6

Tigh is  a FF cylon, 6 is a  convert.

So  humans can breed with the converts, and the FF can breed with converts

Humans with humas, so that only leaves it unknown if the FF can can breed with Humans.

And i get the feeling ellen planed that they would be able too.

 

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: Easy BakesWell you wanted answers you got answers.

Remeber when Tigh killed  Ellen it was18 months ago and the Resurection HUB was still working.

Ellen seems to be the mastermind behind saveing the 5 from earth.

Still no answers as to how Baltar fits into the mix, unless Danial is Baltar, he is a bit immature in some things but is a computer genius. Ellen just made another body for him. Or for Starbuck

It makes sense either way.quote>

Ok, after watching "No Exit" 3x now and listening Ron Moore's podacst yesterday, my understanding is that Daniel is neither Starbuck or Baltar and that he will probably not be appearing in the final episodes of BSG, but that he'll be an integeral part of the storyline for Caprica, the new spin-off series set to air in early 2010.  One of the main characters in Caprica [which covers the 51 year period before the BSG mini-series] is named Daniel Blackstone.  Ellen couldn't have made another copy of Daniel if what was said in the dialog between Ellen and John/Cavil is to be believed.  Cavil in a sense murdered the Daniel line because of his jealousy of the attention Ellen gave her other 'children' over him.  I'll be speaking more of theories by fans over at sci-fi about Daniel further down in this post.

Haljackey

Originally posted by: haljackey

What a change in Ellen's personality.  Before when she was in the fleet she was a naughty girl and now she seems to be a good almighty creator.

Interesting change in personality I must say.  If she resurrected before that hub thing was destroyed, I wounder of the other 4 could have as well if they died.

Its also interesting to note that we have only known two of the Final Five since the miniseries:  Tigh and Tyrol.

-Ellen suddenly appeared being on a ship in the first season

-Sam somehow survived on Caprica in season two

-Tori came in season 2.5 I believe, after Billy was killed.

I wonder if these three suddenly appeared throughout the show for some reason.  And what about this "Daniel"?  (I have yet to watch any trailers for the next episode.)

...And what about the Galactica itself?  Its a surprise to me that wasn't caught earlier.  With the amount of damage that ship has taken along with here ancient age, the old girl must be holding together by a thread.

-It was also noted that she wasn't built exactly to her own scamatics.  This was talked about when smaller screws and whatnot were found where they shouldn't have been.  I'd assume this was the case to get her built quicker for the first Cylon war.  Still, you add that to her age and the battles she has endured, and its a miracle that she has survived this long.

...Not to mention the political stuff going on since the Quarm was killed.

Anyways that's what I have to say and I hope you enjoyed the read.  I'm not making this spoiler text because people should know better not to check this thread if they haven't caught up.

Thoughts about what I have to say?  I'd like to hear it!quote>

I kinda had a feeling that Ellen's personality was going to change when she resurreted and that she, like the other 4 of FF, would regain her memories.  Her dialog with John/Cavil was the best I've seen so far in this series so far, very powerful and poignant.  Oh, and she resurrected soon after she was poisoned by Saul, some 18 months earlier and before the Hub was destroyed.  Also, I don't think Boomer is actually 'helping' Ellen escape, that's a plan by Cavil to lead him to the fleet and possibly to where Ellen has her secret lab where he can get his hands on the data to build another hub so they can resurrect again.

As far as the FF appearing at diffrent times in the fleet was Cavil's plan all along while he played this sadistic game with them and the RTF for his amusement and to 'frak' with his creators minds so they would see things his way, but as in all well laid out plans, nothing ever goes as planned.

I think no-one noticed the stress fractures on the Galactica was because they were caught up in the things that were going on around them, running from Cavil's group, the fragile alliance with the rebel Cylons, finding a destroyed Earth and having their hopes dashed, and recently the mutiny by that traitorous Gaeta [i felt he should have been shot out the airlock instead of being shot].  Now that the fleet is at a standstill and just sitting in space somewheres [not clear if they still orbit Earth or not because we haven't seen Earth since they left Deanna behind], they have the time to try and repair the old bird.  Also, Chief and Adama believe that while Galactica was being de-commisioned in the mini-series and sitting in drydock, the repairs on the ship were not done to schematics, there's no way the colonies would have sent a new Battlestar into service to fight in the first Cylon war.  It wouldn't have survived the 50+ years it's been in service.

Originally posted by: Easy BakesEllen Was supposedly picked up by another refugee ship.Then Tigh found out were she was and brought her back to galactica.

Sam was a member of a resisatance group and Stabuck retrieved them when they went back.

All had belivable storys as to how they got there except Tori, not sure of her origins if she was a member of  the political staff all along or Mrs prez just found staff from the refugees.quote>

I think Tory may know more than she's letting on....she was more than eager to 'join' her people during the first half of the season.  That and she's eager to bail on fleet and leave the humans to their own devices.  I get this feeling she's going to turn on her brethern when Cavil's group arrives.

Originally posted by: Sam

Yeah Tori's an odd one. (Spoilers --> ) All the others, John had a hand in their survival. It was mentioned he was the one who put Ellen on the last ship out of the colonies. He didn't kill Saul or Tyrol on New Caprica. He was the priest with Sam's resistance unit, so I think its fairly reasonable that for at least some of them he was making sure they didn't die too soon for his liking. He sounds like the kind of kid who would have pulled wings off flies, now he's doing it with the humans and Final Five. Maybe John had something to do with Tori's survival too, we just don't know yet.

BTW wasn't John the name of the being of light or something in the original series?

I've been thinking about that and what I said earlier and I think probably yes. Given that the Final Five reinvented resurrection, they already had one copy of each body for when they resurrected after Earth was nuked. I think it would have been a sensible precaution for them to keep at least another one of each around after that too, in case of accidents on their way to the twelve colonies. John killed the final five and then resurrected them without their memories, so there must have been spare bodies at some point. He probably kept at least one of each around in case any of them died before the holocaust. Otherwise it would have spoiled his fun if they died before they saw his grand plan and before he had a chance to gloat.

BTW apparently there's something in the podcast about Daniel being important. Many people have been dismissing him as unimportant and only to fix a minor plot gap. I haven't got to that part in the podcast yet though.quote>

Daniel is important, but like I mentioned above, I got the feeling from Rom Moore's podcast this week he has more to do with the new Caprica series than he does with this one.  Ellen could have though had a few copies in storage, possibly in her secret lab that Cavil wants to find.  A lot of fans over at sci-fi believe that Daniel could be Baltar, though I don't see how that would fit with what Ellen said about Daniel being artistic, something Baltar is not.  Others think that it could be Gaeta because of what he said to Baltar before he was executed.  That's more plausible.  Others yet believe that Starbuck is Daniel and it was Cavil that screwed with the genectic code to make Daniel a female in his sadistic game he's playing.  that's a theory I'm not buying at all.  Others yet believe that Daniel is Starbuck' father, the piano player.  So if Daniel is revealed, it is plausible that either the Gaeta theory or the Starbucks father theory could be correct, but I'm holding out on those two theories until it's revealed that way, if it ever is.  I still believe that Starbuck is neither human nor Cylon nor hybrid.  She has something to do with the 12 Lords of Kobold.

Originally posted by: Warrior

I was wondering how if the Final Five had bodies on a base ship or resurrection ship, then all the cylons would know who the FF were, but now I remember that Cavil kept that room with Ellen in it a secret from all the cylons except Boomer, so he probably has 4 other rooms with the other 4 in.

So do all the 1s (cavils/johns) know about the final five? Also that episode explains why cavil was so against D'anna looking for the FF. Also what do you think has changed, as Sam said something has changed and to stay with the fleet as a miracle has happened (could that be that it's the first time in the cycles that humans have started to believe in one god?(baltar's group)) I say that because Sam said Ellen said everything was different as the centurions believed in one true gods, and miracle and baltar have gone together for a while now.quote>

It's been speculated that Cavil has copies of the final five stored in hidden compartments on the resurrection ships that the other 7 models have no knowledge of.  I think Easy Bakes is right in that the miracle is Saul's and the 6's baby  because supposedly, the 7 skin jobs were not able to procreate Cylon to Cylon.  Hera could be that miracle as well.

Originally posted by: Cheese89Since the end of season 4.0 I've been catching up on BSG starting with the miniseries. I'm finally caught up and can watch the episodes when they originally air

I think something notable in this episode was the fact that the final five re-invented resurrection. It would seem that all humans are therefore capable of resurrecting... they just ditched it in favor of sexual reproduction a long time ago.

Therefore you can separate "humans" into three groups by the way they reproduce...

-Humanoid Cylons can only resurrect

-The Final Five can resurrect or reproduce sexually

-Humans can only reproduce sexually

Perhaps the Cylons can "remember" how to reproduce sexually, and the humans can "remember" how to resurrect. The latter may require a new resurrection hub, but it seems possible.quote>

Glad to hear that you're caught up through the last episode.  The only problem I have with your theory on the 7 skin jobs is that they can't reproduce sexually with their own kind, but can by mating with a human or with the FF.  Other than that your theory is is spot on in my opinion.

Originally posted by: Warrior

We've known since 4x11 that the FF can reproduce with resurrection, as they came from Earth and the poeple/cylons on Earth could reproduce.

Cheese, now you say that I'm guessing then a mixed human/humanoid cylon could come under the FF category,

This means that possible the Earthlings are from the previous cycle, and that the humans and cylons are meant to live together and interbreed, and that now something has changed it means the humans and cylons won't live together, and the to out of the cycle the cylons have to decide to leave the fleet, making Cavil/John right in that humans and cylons shouldn't be together, and that cylons should stick with being cylons and not try to be humanoid. So what seems would be nice and right, is actually wrong. Or it is better to keep in the cycle.

Maybe the cycle is the right thing to do, and to try and change would be wrong.

That's complicated.

In the previous cycle maybe the decision to re-split the the people (what lee said to the President), meant most the humans left in 12 groups/tribes the ones who didn't want to join with the cylons (the ones that made the mutiny), and then the other humans who wanted to live with the cylons(maybe Baltars group) left early to form the 13th tribe, then the mixing of humans and cylons created beings like FF, and the original humans that couldn't resurrect, and the cylons that could have babies die out.

Then this can happen again and again and again...quote>

My theory on the repeating cycle is that whoever is pulling the strings and orchestrating all of this wants the humans of the 12 colonies to co-exist with the Cylons in peace.  Remember when Starbuck and Lee were discussing the signal to Earth from Kara's new viper and Kara said that whoever is orchestrating all of this wants them to find Earth with the Cylons?  There has to be some meaning/significance behind that or that statement  was pointless to add that into the storyline.  If my theory holds true, then I feel that will break the continuing cycle. 

Ok, I can't think straight now, so I'll end this particular post here until my tired old brain recuperates.

Before I sign off, here's a list of season 4.5 episodes I got from Sci-Fi.  Those in bold text is what we have left, then in April the movie The Plan un-cut clears up any unanswered questions from the series finale arrives on DVD, then it appears on Sci-Fi some time after that:

Season 4.5

1-16 Sometimes a Great Notion

1-23 A Disquiet Follows My Soul

1-30 The Oath

2-06 Blood on the Scales

2-13 No Exit

2-20 Deadlock

2-27 Someone to Watch Over Me

3-06 Islanded in a Stream of Stars

3-13 Daybreak, Part I

3-20 Daybreak, Part II  Daybreak, Part III

[Easy Bakes 253]

What? Thier  puting out the final episode on DVD before they show it on TV?
WTH? That realy grinds me gears.

Opps my bad, I miss read ^^^ that post, the movie The Plan will be on DVD.

[warrior 169]

Also isn't the final episode meant to be to be longer on DVD than aired? Or is that the movie,?

[Kevin 101]

Glad to hear that you're caught up through the last episode.  The only problem I have with your theory on the 7 skin jobs is that they can't reproduce sexually with their own kind, but can by mating with a human or with the FF.  Other than that your theory is is spot on in my opinion.

Or maybe they just don't know how to. Understand that I don't mean this as a conscious inability to reproduce sexually... maybe something in them is hardwired so that they "forgot how."

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: Easy BakesWhat? Thier  puting out the final episode on DVD before they show it on TV?

WTH? That realy grinds me gears.

Opps my bad, I miss read ^^^ that post, the movie The Plan will be on DVD. quote>

No problem, I do that once in awhile myself.

Originally posted by: warrior Also isn't the final episode meant to be to be longer on DVD than aired? Or is that the movie,?quote>

The finale is a 3 hour, 3-part episode with part 1 airing on March 13 and parts 2&3 on March 20.  The Plan is a movie that centers more on Cavil and some of the main characters that will explain in greater detail Cavils plan,  plus it will tie up any minor mysteries/answers that the series could not fit in from what I've read over in the forums at scifi.com.

Originally posted by: Cheese89Or maybe they just don't know how to. Understand that I don't mean this as a conscious inability to reproduce sexually... maybe something in them is hardwired so that they "forgot how.quote>

Ok, that sounds plausible and maybe if we're lucky, that will be better explained by the finale

[warrior 169]

Maybe Cavil removed it? Because we know he modifed them , as he said he removed sleep, maybe he saw no need for it as there was resurrection.

Or it is impossible, and it is something that comes evenutally when the skin jobs evolve.

Jonathan