SPAs Urbanist BAT Thread

[mattb325 28,890]

Great work Spa - the cycle shop is awesome and grows nicely in my cities! That Royal Manor building has come along really well indeed - new W2W is just excellent! Nice job on the plants too!

[hamsterTK 93]

These types of things really bring a lot of character to neighborhoods which in the game tend to lack character because all the buildings are sterile and sit on plazas or have very plain storefronts.

[mackeast 0]

Hey spa! Thanks for the comments in the CJ. Im loving this new building - it has a unique Canadian style of architecture, and it will definatly help add some realism to some of the more dense neighborhoods in Vaelt. Cant wait!

[6459978. 106]

Nice BAT. Word about the plants: don't bother. There's absolutely no need to model every single leaf. That'll just leave you cursing your CPU as it lags around the scene. Nowadays I aim for around 100,000 polys total for an entire midsized building (Crumby Arms, for example). Not that this is necessarily a good thing (but I'll let you draw your own conclusions about the relative merits of our BATing styles.)

My point is this though, you can make plants that look essentially identical to what you've done using a half dozen polygons with proper transparency maps on them, with the obvious benefit that they're orders of magnitude quicker to manipulate and render.

Also, I really like the textures in general on this BAT, but please just put in a couple of hours work and make some realistic custom textures for the windows.

[spa 970]

JBSimio: Thanks for the comment. I would be happy to explain the plants in detail, but as 6459978 pointed out, mine are polygon heavy. This can be worked around somewhat. For future BATs, I'll be able to just merge in the plants at the end so that I don't have to try and model with the high polygon count.

Mattb325: Thanks for the comment and continued feedback. 

HamsterTK: Yeah that's the thing Maxis missed out on. I can see why they did it as including commercial ads from real businesses would enrage a lot of people. Still, they could have included more jazzed up fake businesses. Oh well, gives me something to do

Kilkenny: Thanks! I'm pretty pleased with this one. It's probably my most detailed BAT yet. I look forward to seeing it in Vaelt.

6459978: Thanks for the comment. The plants plus a few other inefficent modelling techniques that I use to use put this one at 206,000 polygons and that was after I selected everything and changed all objects into an editable poly (cut it by 2/3 approximately).  In some ways I like making everything directly because it's easier to get the exact size I'm looking for. Still, it would be nice to use transparency maps sometimes. I have never used them and I don't yet know how. Any tutorials you might recommend? About the windows, the glass I have used on my BATs has often been my weakest texture. I have so far made my window textures by cutting them directly from actual digital photos. In this case, the real Royal Manor Building strongly reflects the sky. It has some of the most reflective glass I have ever seen (check out page 4 for a picture of the real building). The windows on it on a sunny day are really, really blue. I don't see myself changing this BAT now as I have had enough of this one and two hours render time isn't something I want to repeat for something minor. Still, if you have any pointers about making better glass textures I would love to hear them as they would come in handy for future projects. Your texturing tutorial about roofs changed the way I do things so any pointers about glass would be appreciated.

Anyway, thanks all for stopping in. I have things finished and rendered. I'll be uploading in a little bit once I finish a few last minute tweaks and after the news is over. Below are the day pictures.

On the whole I think it turned out rather well. I'm not so happy with the way the left side ended up, but it should end up covered up by other buildings a lot of the time. I'm including a ploppable and two growable lots (CS$$ and CS$$$) in the upload. Doing the night lighting on this one was a real trial. The lighting I came up with is pictured below.

Having the balconies came in handy for the lighting because they gave me a nice chance to make some fun shadows. This BAT is the first I have done without the Maxis night textures. The night windows are from goldiva's texture set. If I remember correctly, I used blue violet, which seems to fit on this building much better than any of the Maxis default ones. I'm quite happy with it. Night lighting was a real pain as the lag on my computer was becoming quite unbearable. There are a lot more night lights on this then it first appears. Every lit up window includes a night light shinning down to light up the window sill below. Add the sign lights and the lights casting shadows on the balconies and you've got a lot of lights considering that this is only a 3 storey 2x3 building. It was a lot more work than I was counting on.

One final picture to show you. This BAT fits W2W so I have included one last picture of it smack up against two of my other W2W bats, Ridley's Cycles and Kensington Plaza.

[hamsterTK 93]

thats really cool how the windows shine on the balconies...

I like how you are doing the backs of these as a decent space and not some funky alleyway with trash. In the game its easier to have ped malls back there then making dirty alleys when things dont line up.

[newyorkrunaway1 110]

thats great!!! cant wait to use them!!!

[mackeast 0]

Holy smokes! The lighting is truly awesome! Very nice - it was worth the effort!

[spa 970]

The Royal Manor Building is now available on the STEX. You can find it here:

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16077

Newyorkrunaway1: Thanks. I hope my BATs finds a good home in your cities.
Kilkenny: I'm glad you like the night lighting. Night lights are really something I do for the community. When I play the game, I hardly ever turn on night mode. I'll go months without touching it. Good to know the effort is appreciated.
HamsterTK: Thanks. I generally agree about the backs of buildings. Not every buidling has an ugly alley full of trash and mechancial junk behind it. Personally, I like to put small parking lots back there. Part of new urbanism, which I find appealing, is that cars shouldn't dominate the urban space. Pedestrians shouldn't have to cross a sea of concrete to get to a building. Cars should be parked on the street, underground, in a central garage or around back out of sight where they don't interfere with the streetscape. One thing that I'm trying to do is make the backs of my buildings work together. All of my 2x3s (except Ridley's Cycles) have parkings lot that align perfectly with each other. The result is that they can form an alleyway behind the buidlings. Below is a picture of what I mean with my four BATs that fit together so far.

Expect future lots of mine that go 3 deep to generally fit this pattern. Although I just realized that for this to work, I can't put those lamp posts that I like on the edge of lots anymore. It looks kinds of strange having the ones on the CIBC and Royal Manor Building bump up against each other. Perhaps I'll issue an update for both of those BATs when I get back from Toronto. Thanks for stopping by and making me think about this in more detail. It let me catch the lamp hiccup.

Anyway, I'll probably be around online while I'm in Toronto for at least some of the time. I won't be batting though. I'll start something new when I get back. I'll likely have an update with a new project on the second weekend of June (I get back on Wednesday night). Until then.

[Kwakelaar 92]

Quite some time ago that I had a look here, and you have made some wonderful new bats. I am impressed by your plants and also the Royal Manor has turned out very nicely, I really think it is an excellent bat.

[spa 970]

Well everyone I'm back from my travels. Now I have to really get to work. I need to write a thesis over the next month and a half. I will have some time for batting though. Here's a preview of what's in the works

Torontonians should recognize this one right away. It's the Sam the Record Man on Yonge Street. It's a neat building and very distinctive. It's also quite "loud." This will be my first Toronto BAT, but it won't be the last. I have a ton of pictures from Queen Street, Yonge Street and a few from Front Street. Unfortunately I didn't get up to Bathurst to snap Honest Ed's, but I'll be back to Toronto someday so I'll grab it then.

Another streetside building in Calgary's Kensington neighbourhood. This is one is actually right across the street from my building (that's my apartment tower casting the late day shadow). I like the double decker retail. Should be fun to make.

Another neat buidling from Calgary, this one is down on 17th. It resembles a strip mall in many ways, but it's pedestrian friendly. It has some neat details that I'll be able to have some fun with.

So that's what's in the works. Today I started Sam the Record Man. Below is what I have come up with.

Not bad for an afternoon. I'm not too sure about the red texture though. I'm going to leave it for now as I suspect that it'll look better when I add the rest of the building. I'm thinking that this one will go on a 3X2 or 3X3 corner lot.

[Spike345 20]

OMG I cannot believe your making this! I pass here like daily when I hang out with my friends! this is exciting! LOL

[josefmayor 8]

I lvoe your buildings man keep em comming.

[hamsterTK 93]

Sam the record man is a place i'd really like to check out in real life...

[JBSimio 152]

Very cool pictures, Spa!  Canada certainly knows how to shop... and apparently have a lot of fun in the process.  I'm looking forward to seeing these get made.

JB

[6459978. 106]

Sam!!!! That's great! Always looking for more Toronto BATs!

[spa 970]

Spike345: Thanks for the comment. I figured some Torontonians would be excited about this place. It's such a distinctive building it's kind of hard to miss!

Josefmayor: Thanks. Nice to know my work is appreciated.

HamsterTK: Thanks for popping by again. Sam the Record Man does look like a neat spot. Sadly, I was so fixated on picture taking on my day in downtown Toronto that I didn't duck in. Maybe next time.

JBSimio: Thanks. Some of my new Toronto pictures from Queen Street will actually make buildings that will probably work well with your stuff. For now I'll stick to the modern style to give people more choice for their small commercial buildings.

6459978: I was wondering when you would spot this. As Simtropolis's main creator of Toronto BATs I figured you would either be excited for this or disappointed if it was something you had planned to do. I'm glad it's the former. I have a bunch of other Toronto pictures of potential BATs to join my Halifax and Calgary collection. All of them are from either Queen Street, the middle section of Yonge (Queen to Sam's) or the Kingsway out in Etobicoke. I also have photos of three smaller downtown buildings including the CBC. If you don't get around to it first, I'll likely BAT the CBC sometime this year (it's such a neat building). I'll PM you before I start though just incase. I also took photos of the OCAD building for Onlyplace to help kickstart his project. Might turn into a promising year for Toronto BATs.

So I did a little bit more on Sam's this morning and this evening. Below is where things are at now.

Lots to do obviously, but I have finalized the front dimensions. It'll definitely be 3 wide and it'll fit w2w on the one side. Putting on the stone front section should be pretty easy now. One future hitch is that I really don't know what I'll do with the back of the building since it's not something I saw during my Toronto visit. I'm not too worried since I don't mind if my BATs aren't 100% to the real thing. Right now I'm thinking that I'll probably forgo my usual pleasent rear parking lot in favour of something grimier because the front of this BAT is so loud. It should provide some nice contrast to have the back dirtier and mechanical. I'll just have to see how things go. The way things are going I might have the two street faces finished before the Sunday, but we'll see. I do have that thesis to write. As always feedback is welcome.

[Kwakelaar 92]

I don't know the store, but I like the BAT. Great that you will make this a w2w again and I also quite like the flashy colours.

[spa 970]

Kwakelaar: Thanks. This one is definitely flashy. It's really too bad that we have so many limitations as to what we can do to make neon nightlighting because the real Sam's is a sight to behold at night.

So I have been picking at things on and off. I actually have spent most my available computer leisure time playing Sim City instead of batting. Need to spend some more time in the actual game if I'm going to finish up my region for its two year anniversary. Anyway, progress is pictured below.

As you can see I have finished the main storefront. The only thing that's isn't done on the front is the two overhead SAM signs above the large records on the left. I haven't put them on because I'm not quite sure what I'm doing with roof yet. I'll add them later when I figure that out. So my next step is to move around to the right side. There is actually a cafe with tables and several outdoor chess stand around the side, but I won't be including them because I'm already at 47.9 units long. They need to be cut to avoid having this spill onto a 4 wide lot and looking ridiculous with all the open space. Not too big a deal, but I really should have thought about them earlier. I'll update again once I have some progress to show on the right side.

[bmag_20 61]

wow looks great. love the canadian content

[spa 970]

Bmag20: Well we need some Canadian content to go on those wonderful Atlantic Canada maps Thanks for stopping by.

So I have spent some more time on Sam the Record Man today. It's coming along nicely. I have the right side nearly done. Check it out below.

I'm happy with the way it's going. The one thing that I'm going to change is the roof above the ice cream window. It needs to not run back as far as I have it going right now. I'll probably cut the distance in half and make the white brick part of the building directly touch the stone part. That way it won't be such a canyon down the middle of the building. 

In case anyone is curious, the album posters in the window belong to Maroon 5, Faith Hill, No Doubt and Oscar Peterson. They join, Lenny Kravitz, Ron Sexsmith, Britney Spears and Great Big Sea who are up in the windows on the front (Kravitz and Sexsmith are also on the big signs). I tried to pick a variety of artists from several genras. I think the mix I have is good. If anyone has any requests though I'm open to suggestions since there are two window posters, the Kravitz and Sexsmith ones, that could easily be some other band or singer. Kravitz and Sexsmith are already on the big signs so I wouldn't mind changing their window posters.

Now that I have gone around to the left side I have to confess I'm starting to take liberties. I usually do in most BATs by the time I'm about halfway along. In this case I'm bumping up against size limitations and against what I have photos of. Like most my BATs this can be best described as 1/2 recreation. The front is pretty accurate as is the first half of the side up until the ice cream window. I have started to wander with the rest. I guess the main thing for most Torontonians though is the front is close since the giant records are easily the buildings more recognizable feature.

One other thing. I also added the SAM roof sign on the front. You can see it below (I still need to make a copy of it to put above the second reocrd).

The sign doesn't look like a whole lot in the preview, so I'll show it off here. Below is a picture of it in GMAX.

You can kind of get a sense of the detail in the preview but not fully. This sign really took some doing (a lot more than I thought it would). All those gold dots are little half spheres (I deleted the other half to save polygons). I took quite a bit of time to get them all into place. The outline of the S also took a lot of effort to figure out since I couldn't scale the S to make it bigger. When I scaled, it stopped fitting properly on the angles. So instead I had to click a spline all the way around, copy it and then manually move the vertexes on the second S spline to make the outline. On the whole I'm quite happy with how it turned out... although I think I could have probably come up with nearly the same effect with textures and saved time and polygons, but hey that's me Mr. Model absolutely everything. Anyway, I'll update again when I have made some more progress. This one could be ready in a week or two if things keep going well.

[Kwakelaar 92]

Spa I really like how this is developing, it will be a great building for a rather dense commercial area. It is a "strange" building made up of different elements not any of them looking like they have been designed as a whole but just added on over time as the owner saw fit. I think this will be my new favourite bat from the Spa studio.

[Spike345 20]

LOL Spa, Is it bad that I lived in Toronto my whole life and nenver noticed there was an Ice Cream stand there? lmao, I almost fell out of my chair when I noticed. ahha

[josefmayor 8]

that's an amazing bat I can't wait til you finish it.

[spa 970]

Kwakelaar: Thanks. I thought it would be hard to beat the Royal Manor Building, but it seems I'm managing it. I'm really liking this one too and it'll make a perfect 10th release for me on the STEX. You're bang on about how the store developed. According to wikipedia (I know not the best of sources) the store started where the spinning records are and slowly took over the neighbouring space as it expanded, closing out, among others, Steele's Tavern which was at the time another noteable landmark.

Spike345: haha. Sometime an outsiders perspective draws attention to what is really there. It's easy to walk by something everyday and never really notice it. I wouldn't feel too bad though. From my poking around the internet it seems that the ice cream and coffee shop on the Gould Street side were added after the store was reopened in 2002. It's an attempt to draw more people in. So it's not your whole life that you've been missing it just the last four years  Thanks for your comment.

Josefmayor: Thanks!

[spa 970]

More done. I have the shape figured out now it's time for details. The roof needs electrical wiring, ducts, piping, supports for all the billboards and of course roof textures. I also need some outside lights for around the three back doors. Things are coming along though. Below are the screenshots from all angles.

Two final things. I don't like how blank the very back brick wall is compared to the big windows on its neighbours. I'm planning on putting wiring, piping and ducting up it and onto the roof. That should keep it from looking so bare. On the left side, I had thought of putting a poster on the blank greyish wall. I went so far as to actually make one, but I found that that wall just looks better blank. Kind of a calm spot on a very loud building. In any case most of the time that wall will be covered up by neighbouring buildings or it will only be half visible. So this is where thing sit. As always feedback is welcome.

[JBSimio 152]

Hey Spa!  This is coming along really well.  Every time I look, I like it more and more.

So were you offering me inspiration photos in that post or warning me that the competition is coming???  If it's the first, you know I'll take any pictures I can get my hands on... If it's the second, then I'll just concede now!  No sense in dragging out the inevitable! 

JB

[Spike345 20]

Spa, are you going to add those makeshift booths that are usually outside selling jewlery?

[spa 970]

JBSimo: Sorry man but your post has kind of gone over my head. I don't know what post I made that you're referring to. I don't see us in competition in fact quite the opposite. I think our separate efforts make a nice addition together since we hit the STEX about the same time and I have tended towards modern w2w buildings and you've tackled older ones. It lets people have the whole gauntlet of buildings in their small downtowns and it's something I have seen people do in CJs (my banks have often sat next to your buildings). You would think we had coordinated this  

I do have some photos of older buildings from Halifax, Stephen Avenue in Calgary and Queen Street in Toronto so I might end up making buildings that are more similiar to yours , but our styles will still be different. I tend to stay away from 1x2s (I use yours though) because most of the time I zone my commercial areas in 2x3 or 2x2 blocks and, generally, I like to include very visible signage whereas your buildings tend to be more subtle. The signage things fits our different objectives as I'm working from trendy w2w neighbourhoods in large cities whereas you're working on small towns where business don't have to compete as much for attention. The point of all this being is that I think our stuff works together wonderfully and will keep doing so even if I start into some older buildings.... Besides, if their is a competition on, you've got it man! Your productivity is astounding. I started with 5 BAT lead and you're well on your way to burying me

Spike345: Thanks for popping by again. I appreciate the consistent feedback over the development of this BAT. Unfortunately I messed up in the creation of this when I was figuring out dimensions. There isn't enough room left for me to include the jewellery stand (which I didn't realize until I looked at old photos isn't really temporary) or the cafe tables and chess boards. If I put them on there would be almost a whole tiles worth of space between the building and the street which would like quite weird in game. I have thought about making props of these objects since I could overhange them off the lot and onto the Maxis street sidewalk, but I suspect that even that would simply make the side look crowded because of the shortage of room. So unfortunately they're not coming along. Just pretend that the City of Toronto cracked down on cluttered sidewalks

[Kwakelaar 92]

Nice update, Spa, starting to become a real building now.