Serieus stuff now !! Mutations founded in bird flu!!

[Alkaola 18]

just headline news in my country (netherlands)  that there have been found mutations in the  birdflu virus....

 

its not IF but WHEN will it happen... a pandemic virus...kills millions.. of people

 

i'm taking this very serieus now.. when scientists find mutations it's coming closer

[the_new_simman 5]

You do know they HAVE invented a vacine for the epidemic. I still doubt it will spread to humans and kill millions of people. More news propaganda.

[Alkaola 18]

it's inevidable .... last age we got 3 pandemics.. so it will happen one day..

and because the world pop is so big right now it will spread easily .. no we have to take this serieus

[the_new_simman 5]

I'm not saying people shouldn't take this seriously, I'm saying that this epidemic is a ways off. Plus, the US has vacines ready incase of an epidemic, they also say its enough to supply millions of people.

I'm cool with it. I'm just not gonna get all worried about it until it happens. Its great that people are preparing for it, but there are other worse case scenarios that could occur in the next year. (e.g. Iran's nukes...scary)

Also, don't tell me US has nukes and that we are scarier than Iran cause that's not true. Iran will shoot first, US will shoot second.

[vidioman 21]

the_new_simman | Plus, the US has vacines ready incase of an epidemic, they also say its enough to supply millions of people.

quote>

Hmm... I wonder, how many people live in the United States?


I really doubt they have 300 million vacines, and I also doubt 300 million Americans will actually get them. Of course, considering the country has over 30 million living below the poverty line, the majority of which are old or sick, they could use a bit of cleansing i'm sure!

Also, because the bird flu HAS mutated, those vaccines are WORTHLESS!

Just like how this years flu shot hasn't been working. Oops! Not the same strain! Our bad.

the_new_simman | I'm cool with it. I'm just not gonna get all worried about it until it happens.

quote>

Yes. GOD FORBID you're prepared for something!! I think I'll eat that 18 year old soup in the cupboard now. You don't actually notice botulism until a couple days later, so I'll worry about it then!

the_new_simman | Its great that people are preparing for it, but there are other worse case scenarios that could occur in the next year. (e.g. Iran's nukes...scary)

quote>

That's about as valid as America has an army!!111 They're going to invade Canada!!!1111 OH NOES!!!

the_new_simman | Also, don't tell me US has nukes and that we are scarier than Iran cause that's not true. Iran will shoot first, US will shoot second.

quote>

I'm scared that the US will even shoot at all. You just HAD to piss them off, didnt you?

I'm glad people like you are a minorty in America! Shame you stole the power from the normal folk.

---

And this post, my friends, is why politics are not allowed on Simtropolis.

[MayorTim 16]

Woah, that was quite the flame vid.....

[vidioman 21]

MayorTim | Woah, that was quite the flame vid.....

quote>

Isn't it, though? I'm getting kinda tired of the It won't happen to meeeeee mentality coming from some people lately.

Though I don't like people overreacting to it, either. It is an issue, but stop saying WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!! and stop saying It'll never happen because it will happen, and it will be bad, but no where near even a billion people are going to die.

It will reveal one major problem with the US healthcare system, though: Lack of preventative health care. In Canada, we get treated to prevent illness, while the US system treats you after you get illness. That's why Canadians are slighly healthier, and live a bit longer than their US counterparts.

[Cjah 15]

That cleansing remark is mssed up!

Just cause some of us aren't all rich and mighty like you doesn't mean jack!

 

I think you should watch your words and also what if some how the bird flu started in New Orleans and spread to Mexico and the rest of North America?

 

Then your little Canada anit gonna be to safe then....

[Meg 368]

Let's take it easy, guys.  It is possible to discuss this subject calmly.  Let's see if we can do it.

[ginchael 1]

Wow...anger much?

I'm actually writing a screenplay that uses a mutation of Bird Flu as a plot point (being a typical member of the NY metro area, I figured the mutation would be in the City), but its actually about fanaticism and the media taking stories out of proportion and their effect on the general population. Maybe I'll post it some time...

So it goes...

[vidioman 21]

Cjah | That cleansing remark is mssed up!

quote>

What cleansing remark?

Cjah | Just cause some of us aren't all rich and mighty like you doesn't mean jack!

quote>

Since when is Canada rich and mighty? Since when am I rich and mighty? You're family probably make 3 or 4 times as much as mine does.

Cjah | I think you should watch your words and also what if some how the bird flu started in New Orleans and spread to Mexico and the rest of North America?
Then your little Canada anit gonna be to safe then....

quote>

Why do you say New Orleans? NO and Mexico are quite far away from Canada ( See? ) and we can just put in the strict border controls America has to keep diseases like SARS and Madcow out if we really had to.

I tried to be as civil and polite as possible. If I crossed the line just let me know and Ill stop posting here.

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

Well, isn't that interesting. The regular Asian flu has enough degrees of freedom that we need vaccines annually. Maybe the current bird flu strain can be added to the general shot which covers a multitude of forms.

The more interesting fact is not that it mutates, but how fast? Anyone know?

Meanwhile, it is not worth wearing brown trousers over. Just stay away from chicken ranches. Did you know that Lyme's disease is endemic in chicken ranching operations? Carried by ticks which also infect deer and other antelope. It is zoonotic to humans.

Chickens are dirty animals, and we can't live without them because we need the protein. Have a thought to chicken farmers who live with these dangers continuously. That includes field-run birds as well as the indoor ranched types.

[Cjah 15]

hmm....looking back my anger may seem a little to out of hand....

this remark....

 

I really doubt they have 300 million vacines, and I also doubt 300 million Americans will actually get them. Of course, considering the country has over 30 million living below the poverty line, the majority of which are old or sick, they could use a bit of cleansing i'm sure!

anyway....I know you didn't mention New Orleans...I'm just saying what if...its a port and right now its easy to spread viruses around...and yes I know where Canada is....I'm an American high school student that isn't that stupid....I'm saying it'd go to Mexico first because of the extreme poverty there then it'd find its way some how back into the states and spread north...

 

I highly doubt my family makes that much more then yours....trust me...even back in the days of the 90s when the economy was good in America...I'm not saying that much has changed in 6 years,but even back then I'm sure your family had more....

 

[Alkaola 18]

Date: 1/12/2006 11:14:19 PM Author: Cjah

hmm....looking back my anger may seem a little to out of hand....

this remark....

'I really doubt they have 300 million vacines, and I also doubt 300 million Americans will actually get them. Of course, considering the country has over 30 million living below the poverty line, the majority of which are old or sick, they could use a bit of 'cleansing' i'm sure!'

anyway....I know you didn't mention New Orleans...I'm just saying what if...its a port and right now its easy to spread viruses around...and yes I know where Canada is....I'm an American high school student that isn't that stupid....I'm saying it'd go to Mexico first because of the extreme poverty there then it'd find its way some how back into the states and spread north...

I highly doubt my family makes that much more then yours....trust me...even back in the days of the 90s when the economy was good in America...I'm not saying that much has changed in 6 years,but even back then I'm sure your family had more....

quote>

 

Cjah why not stopping talking with vidioman ? You both have good point but eventually it will end in flame war and thats not where this thread is for...

 

And no i'm really not panic about this.. i only wanna say people must take it serieus...

[Cjah 15]

Well just because I'm involved it will end in a flame war you say....

Whatever....

 

The news isn't always correct so I'm with the_new_simman on this one...

 

All in all this will be my last post here in this thread....

[vidioman 21]

I agree, the cleansing remark was out of hand, I apolgise, but wont remove it. Mods can if they feel they have to. It was more to point something out, kinda, I don't actually believe they should be killed off or anything like that.

It wouldnt go to Mexico, then back to the states, it wuold go to Mexico AND the States, and most likely withen days of even arriving in the states, be in both Mexico and Canada, and considering this is tourist season here, if it happened now, most of the Caribbean (Yes, even cuba. Thunder Bay has direct flights to Cuba) and even parts of South America would be infected. It's already in Europe, it's really only a matter of time, BUT that is if it mutates into a form of the disease that is transferable from Human-Human. So far, the cases in Turkey (which, ironically, has bird flu. Cue the Canadian Invade turkey/Call it Chicken joke) and Asia are all people that are in regular contact with birds. Some ducks in Manitoba got a form of Bird flu (many migratory birds have it all over the world) but it is a weaker form that isn't communicable to or between humans.

Cjah | I highly doubt my family makes that much more then yours....trust me...even back in the days of the 90s when the economy was good in America...I'm not saying that much has changed in 6 years,but even back then I'm sure your family had more....

quote>

We were on bare welfare for most of the 90s (until they found out my dad had a job with some chimney building guy named Stu who ODed on Crack I think 3 years ago? Maybe 2? and then cut us off because we didnt report that) and most of the time we went without groceries, we even had water cut off for about a month back in 1997 so we could stay in the place, I really doubt you were that poor. My brother still lives with my dad (no rules) and he comes here every few days to get groceries off us because my dad can't afford to feed him.

But all that aside..

@A Koala: (that's how I read your name..) I want people to take it seriously too, but not to the point where they're saying a pandemic virus...kills millions.. of people I really doubt more than a million will die in Netherlands (being a very dense country, people are in closer contact with each other. Like daycares, if one person gets sick, everyone else gets that sick and then they generally become immune to it. See: Pox Parties)

You never get the same cold twice. (cancer isnt a cold.)

[Alkaola 18]

Date: 1/13/2006 1:47:42 AM Author: Cjah

Well just because I'm involved it will end in a flame war you say....

Whatever....

The news isn't always correct so I'm with the_new_simman on this one...

All in all this will be my last post here in this thread....

quote>

 

thanks Cjah... and you don't need to get out of this thread

 

but no i don't see why the news would lie about mutations on bird flu

[Voar Tok 4]

Date: 1/12/2006 10:35:19 PM Author: vidioman

It will reveal one major problem with the US healthcare system, though: Lack of preventative health care. In Canada, we get treated to prevent illness, while the US system treats you after you get illness. That's why Canadians are slighly healthier, and live a bit longer than their US counterparts.

quote>

 

Preventative medicine is taken very seriously over here in the US.  In fact, just this past year, everyone in my area that wanted one was supposed to be able to get their flu shot for free.  You had to be 18 to get it, but due to the lack of product that everyone correctly predicted would occur, I was considered to be in too good of health to get a flu shot at all.  In fact, I haven't had one for, I think, three years.

 

The reason why preventive medicine isn't widely practiced is because we don't have socialized medicine like you guys in Canada do.  Hence, preventative medicine is done on a personally-initiated basis.  I would venture to say that a good number of American's healthcare plans don't cover preventative medicine (I could definitely be wrong on that, though).  So, if a person's healthcare plan doesn't cover preventative medicine, that person is much more likely not to do anything until they are sick.

 

To recap what I just said, preventative medicine can be easily gotten in the US, but a lot of people don't take the offer.

[vidioman 21]

Voar Tok | Preventative medicine is taken very seriously over here in the US. In fact, just this past year, everyone in my area that wanted one was supposed to be able to get their flu shot for free. You had to be 18 to get it, but due to the lack of product that everyone correctly predicted would occur, I was considered to be 'in too good of health' to get a flu shot at all. In fact, I haven't had one for, I think, three years.

quote>

In Canada, the young, sick, seniors and health care professionals are top priority to get flu shots, people in the 18-40 range that are generally healthy have the best chances to beat the flu. We have commercials here (paid for by the government, AKA, tax dollars) that say Flu Season is upon us, time for flu shots/if you're young, old, sick or work in the health care industry, you SHOULD get one (don't have to ,but it's strongly recommended. Health Care professionals were until recently forced to get them, but some, including my grandmother, refused them since they had bad experiences with it before, or in one or two cases, didnt believe in vaccinations) and once you get into December, every wednesday, our Local Integrated Health Network (Or LIHN) rented our the hall at a huge evangel church on the edge of town, and set up a free flu clinic there, vaccinating thousands (and turning down many Americans that drove up trying to get vaccinated as well; You need an Ontario health card to get them) so not only is it taken seriously, we have health professionals tell us, instructions on where and why to get them, and they even came to our school to give them out free for 4 days in late november. THAT is what you need to do in the US, ESPECIALLY places that are vulnerable to the flu. We may have long wait times (the line ups at the clinics were huge, and they had to cut everyone off shortly after 5, and on several cases ran out) but we make sure as many people get them as necessary.

Voar Tok | The reason why preventive medicine isn't widely practiced is because we don't have socialized medicine like you guys in Canada do. Hence, preventative medicine is done on a personally-initiated basis. I would venture to say that a good number of American's healthcare plans don't cover preventative medicine (I could definitely be wrong on that, though). So, if a person's healthcare plan doesn't cover preventative medicine, that person is much more likely not to do anything until they are sick.

quote>

Not only do a good number of plans not cover it, a good number of Americans don't have plans at all, and these Americans that dont have it are the poor, old, sick/weak and young, the groups most likely to fall victim to the flu. They also need more education, like the public announcements we have here. (Which cover more than health care)

Voar Tok | To recap what I just said, preventative medicine can be easily gotten in the US, but a lot of people don't take the offer.

[Voar Tok 4]

Date: 1/13/2006 2:16:46 AM Author: vidioman

Voar Tok | Preventative medicine is taken very seriously over here in the US.  In fact, just this past year, everyone in my area that wanted one was supposed to be able to get their flu shot for free.  You had to be 18 to get it, but due to the lack of product that everyone correctly predicted would occur, I was considered to be 'in too good of health' to get a flu shot at all.  In fact, I haven't had one for, I think, three years.

quote>

In Canada, the young, sick, seniors and health care professionals are top priority to get flu shots, people in the 18-40 range that are generally healthy have the best chances to beat the flu. We have commercials here (paid for by the government, AKA, tax dollars) that say 'Flu Season is upon us, time for flu shots/if you're young, old, sick or work in the health care industry, you SHOULD get one' (don't have to ,but it's strongly recommended. Health Care professionals were until recently forced to get them, but some, including my grandmother, refused them since they had bad experiences with it before, or in one or two cases, 'didnt believe in vaccinations') and once you get into December, every wednesday, our 'Local Integrated Health Network' (Or 'LIHN') rented our the hall at a huge evangel church on the edge of town, and set up a free flu clinic there, vaccinating thousands (and turning down many Americans that drove up trying to get vaccinated as well; You need an Ontario health card to get them) so not only is it taken seriously, we have health professionals tell us, instructions on where and why to get them, and they even came to our school to give them out free for 4 days in late november. THAT is what you need to do in the US, ESPECIALLY places that are vulnerable to the flu. We may have long wait times (the line ups at the clinics were huge, and they had to cut everyone off shortly after 5, and on several cases ran out) but we make sure as many people get them as necessary.

quote>

 

Children can get a flu shot if there is any to be had, but they have to go see a pediatrician to get it because of local state laws that prevent a government worker from administering a flu shot to a minor.  However, if the parent of the minor doesn't have healthcare coverage, the parent gives Medicaid a ring, and they will make sure that the kid's flu shot is free.  Other than that, everything else is the same - if you are sick, elderly, a medical professional, et cetera, you'll be able to get a flu shot if they don't run out.

 

Voar Tok | The reason why preventive medicine isn't widely practiced is because we don't have socialized medicine like you guys in Canada do.  Hence, preventative medicine is done on a personally-initiated basis.  I would venture to say that a good number of American's healthcare plans don't cover preventative medicine (I could definitely be wrong on that, though).  So, if a person's healthcare plan doesn't cover preventative medicine, that person is much more likely not to do anything until they are sick.

quote>

 

quote>Not only do a good number of plans not cover it, a good number of Americans don't have plans at all, and these Americans that dont have it are the poor, old, sick/weak and  young, the groups most likely to fall victim to the flu. They also need more education, like the public announcements we have here. (Which cover more than health care)

[Boggy1 45]

Well, now that it has mutates, everysingle vaccine is now worthless, yay.
I, myself, am pretty worried about this thing, it would be so easy to spread.
Take this scenario:
A plane arrives in London bearing a courier. Except this person doesn't realise what they're carrying. Before the passengers disembark, the courier is dead and another person is carrying the package: the deadly flu virus.
Within a few days people are dropping dead in the street, the virus is unstoppable, with people fleeing the city just to spread it to the countryside.
Back in London, and people are lying dead in the road, in the gutters and even in the tube stations (subways for you Americans), the Military cordons off the whole of the City of London, but its too little, too late.
By now, millions are dead, hospitals are overflowing, everyone avoids contact with everyone else. The cities and streets are deserted, food reserves are running low, the Government, what's left of them, is in hiding, and a huge quarantine is spread over the whole of the country.
And then a man in New York, going home to his family, suddenly starts to feel rarther ill...
The virus takes hold of the world.

Its now so easy for viruses like these to spread. And whats more, the birds can still carry the H5N1 which could easily mutate.


So, to be honest, it's ignorant and stupid to believe that, when it does happen (and oh yes, it will happen, 100% certanity), you will be safe or unaffected.

[Compromise 1]

There has been a panic buy of Flu vacines here in the UK and now we have a shortage. This is a classic example of people not knowing science because this vacine is totally useless with this virus since it's for influenza not H5N1.

There is not a vacine which will work for this virus yet for two reason's..

 

1) The virus is mutating rapidley. This means that it is changing. Vacine's are slow to make so thets say if we make enougth for every person in the UK by the time they ar ready the vacine won't work anymore.

 

2) Vacine's are made in egg's. Now what would happen if you put a H5N1 vacine in eggs? There is a soltion but this problem may at first slow things down even further.

 

However some anti-viral drugs which are available can help limit symptoms and reduce the chances the disease will spread if there ever was a pandemic. The goverment in the UK are ordering enougth of these for one in every three people and eventually all UK residents.

 

We don't know if/when/where/how this virus will mutate to spread to humans. It may not even be this virus which finnaly makes the jump but other one's appearing such as H5N7. Whatever happens there really is no need pnic but we should to take the nessasery precautions.

[the_new_simman 5]

hmm...I make one little comment and than vid blows up. No offense taken by your post, hopefully none was by mine.

Vids right, that's why politics arn't allowed, although mentioning Iran isn't politics and alot of off topic threads are politics..ehh, whatever.

[Emozo 0]

flu kills millions every year, what make this any different? because it comes from birds?

[your_adress_here 11]

Date: 1/13/2006 1:58:20 AM
Author: Alkaola

Date: 1/13/2006 1:47:42 AM Author: Cjah

Well just because I'm involved it will end in a flame war you say....

Whatever....

The news isn't always correct so I'm with the_new_simman on this one...

All in all this will be my last post here in this thread....

quote>

thanks Cjah... and you don't need to get out of this thread

but no i don't see why the news would lie about mutations on bird flu

quote>

They don't lie. They exagerate way to much. It creates hype and people wanna watch the news to find out about it.

I'm not worried at all about this right now.

[Bach2Baroque 168]

Im a little worried, cause i heard that a human pandemic could start in asian countries first.

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

@Voar Tok: You know, the HMOs in the U.S. are pretty short sighted as are the pubic health people. You say there is little prophylaxis in the U.S.

The way to stop the spread of some communicable disease before it becomes an epidemic is preventative medicine, not treatment. Of course you have to know there is a probability of the disease. Does the U.S. still immunize agains polio? Polio is alive and well in Africa.

[Shadow Assassin 336]

That's most likely, as it is mainly attributed to poor living conditions, especially with animals in the same house as the majority of families in the poorer areas of Asia.

[Voar Tok 4]

Date: 1/13/2006 10:22:54 PM Author: N_O_Body @Voar Tok:  You know, the HMOs in the U.S. are pretty short sighted as are the pubic health people.  You say there is little prophylaxis in the U.S. The way to stop the spread of some communicable disease before it becomes an epidemic is preventative medicine, not treatment.  Of course you have to know there is a probability of the disease.  Does the U.S. still immunize agains polio?  Polio is alive and well in Africa.

quote>

Prophylaxis (translation: preventative medical care) is readily available for everything - flu shortages not withstanding.  As for polio vaccines, I'm sure that you can get them, but I don't know if they still require them.  The CDC believes that polio is a dead disease in the US.  As for the HMO's, well, a lot of them suck.  Anyway, you can get vaccines, but a lot of people don't want to put out the money for it or the time or whatever their reason may be.  The problem is the people's mindset, not a lack of treatment availability (again, flu shots not withstanding).

[Boggy1 45]

hmm, great, now there is a suspected bird flu case in Belgium...