The Future of Warfare Is Now Here... Lasers

[villarule 2]

it wont happen
remember in the 60s when people thought that in year 2000 everyone would live on the moon?
I thought people were talking about fighting with robots not so long ago....

[ancientsociety 26]

No one owns space or any celestial body. Countries only own the airspace within their borders, anything above the atmosphere is unclaimed property. That's why satelites/shuttles/etc. can fly over other nations and take pictures/etc.

Our enlightened leaders here in the US have claimed to own space but it's just not true. Technically, anyone who can blast a rocket out of the atmosphere can get into space. So, ownership is more about the ability to get there then anything else.

 

As far as property claims in space, no one can do it. First, to own land that has to be recognised by a government. Hence, individuals cannot own lots on the Moon or Mars and a government cannot claim property because that must be recognized by the UN or other multinational agency.

 

As far as naming stars is concerned, the star isn't ACTUALLY named that . Businesses just put through a copyright for the name of the star, so the name is only technically recognized in that country. For a star to be named, it must enter the vernacular of the scientific community (this is why there are named stars like Betelgeuse and Alpha Centauri and numbered stars, the former has entered the popular vernacular).

[toxicpiano 125]

Who is the biggest threat to the world today? america! Bush is off to fight his holy war with the muslims in the middle east, and at the same time polluting the atmosphere to pieces! yes but lets not get into those...

[Emozo 0]

america shouldnt just stand by and let this technology slip away. i say go for it, technology like this could revolutionise industrial techniques in the future and prove a mass benefit to the quality of life, dont start speculating about military use and drawing conclusions when civilian use could be much more beneficial. and as for terrorism i doubt that terrorists could afford or indeed have the technology to launch a space laser. if there is going to be one orbiting space then i would much prefer it to be americas than some rouge state.

[villarule 2]

Date: 1/12/2006 1:30:58 PM
Author: Emozo
america shouldnt just stand by and let this technology slip away. i say go for it, technology like this could revolutionise industrial techniques in the future and prove a mass benefit to the quality of life, dont start speculating about military use and drawing conclusions when civilian use could be much more beneficial. and as for terrorism i doubt that terrorists could afford or indeed have the technology to launch a space laser. if there is going to be one orbiting space then i would much prefer it to be americas than some rouge state.

quote>


there is absolutely no need for a big hyper kill all leser gun though is there?
It will never be used, why not spend the billions of $ on something worthwhile, like rebuilding New Orleans or 3rd world poverty?

[Emozo 0]

sorry to be blunt but there is no point in rebuilding a unsustainable city, and as for a third world country, to be honest i have lost all faith in third world polotics, look at zimbabwe for example.

in this current phase of climate change there is much more need than ever before to advance humanities technologies to cope with a changing planet. i dont think sitting huming and ahhing about a continant that has been at war with its self for the past 10000 years is going to help the fact that we are going to sink under the rising sea levels or what ever is about to kill us next, and when sea levels do get too high, cities like new orleans are going to be the first to flood. again.

[ancientsociety 26]

Emozo: Again this was the same argument used to continue advanced nuclear weapons design - i.e. that the technology would be relevant and inexpensive for industry to use. However, it never panned out. Nuclear energy is the most hazardous, expensive, and controversial industry in the world. There are simply too many health and environmental hazards to make it viable.

No one is drawing conclusions about its militarization. Read the article. It's being developed in Los Alamos Labs (the place that made the first A bomb) by the DoE and DoD specifically for weaponization, there have been no other civilian applications proposed for it. And what applications could there be for a giant space laser???

 

Also, the whole we need to make it before someone else does is fear-mongering. Do you really think a rogue state like North Korea could afford the BILLIONS of dollars to financing it? How about the high-tech industry to build it? Or a viable space program to actually get it into space???

 

As far as terrorism is concerned, no one thought that terrorists would or could use commercial airliners as flying bombs before 9/11. If there is a giant laser, then there will have to be an earthbound control center. So what would prevent a terrorist from infiltrating the control center and taking control of the laser? Terrorists don't need to build NBC weapons/high-tech weapons/airliners etc. because we've already built them. All they need to do is buy it off the black market/hijack/steal it from us. Counter-terrorism is about thinking like a terrorist and knowing their moves before they make them.

[villarule 2]

Date: 1/12/2006 2:06:23 PM
Author: ancientsociety

Emozo: Again this was the same argument used to continue advanced nuclear weapons design - i.e. that the technology would be relevant and inexpensive for industry to use. However, it never panned out. Nuclear energy is the most hazardous, expensive, and controversial industry in the world. There are simply too many health and environmental hazards to make it viable.

No one is 'drawing conclusions' about its militarization. Read the article. It's being developed in Los Alamos Labs (the place that made the first A bomb) by the DoE and DoD specifically for weaponization, there have been no other civilian applications proposed for it. And what applications could there be for a giant space laser???

Also, the whole 'we need to make it before someone else does' is fear-mongering. Do you really think a 'rogue state' like North Korea could afford the BILLIONS of dollars to financing it? How about the high-tech industry to build it? Or a viable space program to actually get it into space???

As far as terrorism is concerned, no one thought that terrorists would or could use commercial airliners as flying bombs before 9/11. If there is a giant laser, then there will have to be an earthbound control center. So what would prevent a terrorist from infiltrating the control center and taking control of the laser? Terrorists don't need to build NBC weapons/high-tech weapons/airliners etc. because we've already built them. All they need to do is buy it off the black market/hijack/steal it from us. Counter-terrorism is about thinking like a terrorist and knowing their moves before they make them.

quote>
top post
Emzo, just because you have lost all faith in 3rd world politics does this mean that you dont care about the millions of people that western governments bleed dry in the 3rd world with debt repayments?
People can be helped in LEDCs (less economically developed countries) by bottom up initiatives, giving money directly to the person, not the government. If these schemes were implemented then there would be far less suffereing,hunger, famine etc.
I reiterate my point about a stupid laser, what is the point? America already has atomic and nuclear weapons which it can destroy the world with, why does it need a space laser

[ancientsociety 26]

villarule: We gotta build it, cause it's....cool.

 

[Emozo 0]

no no no you missed my point. i was merely getting at the importance of developing advanced technologies for everyones benefit, not wepons.

you would be suprised how much everyday items are first developed for use in the military or space programs, jet engines now power modern travel, GPS that was first developed for the military now directs modern shipping to the accuracy of feet, even the medium i am talking to you on now, the internet was developed for the event of nuclear war.

atom bombs have led to hydrogen bombs which were the first to prove that forced fusion is actually possible, at the moment an international project is underway to develop an experimental fusion reactor in france, this may be the technology that proves to 'save' the planet.

suppose we stood still after the first a-bomb? what then? one thing is for sure we would be no where near as close as we are now to developing fusion power, we are tantalisingly close to developing power from nothing and it may prove to be the most important discovery to humanity. ever. which generation can say that they were part of that?

and all of this came from developing new military technologies during the cold war! who would have thought and it probably could have happened sooner had the countries involved not been bickering for the past 10 years. so that is why i ask what could come of this technology, not for war but for civilian benefit. i dont know now but it may still prove to be useful.

[MayorTim 16]

If it did happen, it would be quite a usefull weapon. It would actually save lives, because it could be targeted to pinpoint any given building. The way we wage war currently is messy. Every month or so you hear about another misguided missile that ended up hitting a school full of little kids.

While I agree war is terrible, it is a part of humanity and it is not going away any time soon. May as well try our best to make it as clean as possible.

A laser would always hit the correct target, would not cause any considerable explosion that might harm civillians or infrastructure, and would cause no long term side effects like an Atom Bomb.

Also, I do not know why you guys are calling this a hyper killer. It is not something that is going to be used to level a city (though that is possible). It will almost definately be possible to recalibrate it to the size of a particular building, or even smaller.

[Emozo 0]

i have to agree, the technology developed could be put into good use for both military and non military uses

[Micah 16]

Here is a poll on the MSNBC website about the article:

MSNBC POLL

Do you favor research on combat lasers?   

13,875 responses

 

Yes
96%

 

No
3%

 

Not sure
1%

[Hanson784 165]

Wow! 96% favor it...

This weapon has both good and bad aspects to it, though I think there are more bad aspects than good. Just keep in mind some things invented for good intentions are eventually used for the worst intentions. It's interesting to think how much we are willing to risk our own safety while trying to protect it.

[the_new_simman 5]

Who cares about this weapon, I'm more concerned about the nukes Iran, Russia and North Korea has. They can launch their nukes at the US at anytime..yes, anytime.

IMO, Iran and North Korea is more over a threat now than this stupid lazer beam. Save ourselves! Run!

[nicoflorez 0]

I'd say the US is the biggest threat for the world and for the US themselves

[Easy Bakes 253]

Date: 1/12/2006 11:33:56 AM Author: ancientsociety

As far as 'naming' stars is concerned, the star isn't ACTUALLY named that . Businesses just put through a copyright for the name of the star, so the name is only technically recognized in that country. For a star to be named, it must enter the vernacular of the scientific community (this is why there are named stars like Betelgeuse and Alpha Centauri and numbered stars, the former has entered the popular vernacular).

quote>

Id always though that was such a scam. those guys made much money for so  little work

 All he needed was a  list of the  stars in the Galactic catalog( there are millions of them) and just pick random stars and rename it, print  out and send out a little certifiicate with the coordinates to the person that  bought it. $$$$$$

 

 

 

[The Terminator 0]

The way i see it, the worlds not going to be around by time my great grandkids are my age.

 

The war on terror has been going on for almost 5 years now, ans no major progress has been made. The war on terror is a joke. America is the real terrorists. the Government had all the intellegence warning of 9/11 right in front of their eyes, they let it happen so they could dominate the nation, and the world.

 

This laser weapon, if devoleped WILL be used by the government in a Hiroshima like scenario. Look at WWII, after we got The Bomb we became the world superpower, the Atomic Bomb is why america is what we are today. This laser weapon is only being devoloped to further Americas dominance of the world.

 

There is no revolution.

 

There never will be a world government, well be dead by the year 3000.

 

 

OR.....

 

this is media hype, wich it might likely be, i remember skigeek saying somewhere, when she grew up in the 60s she was always being told that the world wont be around when she grew up, i think the same is becoming true for todays day and age.

 

but anyways, Tommorow bolongs to us, not the government, or a laser Doom.

 

[vidioman 21]

Date: 1/12/2006 7:28:46 PM
Author: the_new_simman
Who cares about this weapon, I'm more concerned about the nukes Iran, Russia and North Korea has. They can launch their nukes at the US at anytime..yes, anytime.


IMO, Iran and North Korea is more over a threat now than this stupid lazer beam. Save ourselves! Run!

quote>

You forgot America.

[MayorTim 16]

So hostile against the American govornment... We aren't THAT bad! lol

America is not a terrorist organization. it is poorly run, but we aren't about to go nuke the world for the fun of it.

[vidioman 21]

MayorTim | So hostile against the American govornment... We aren't THAT bad! lol

America is not a 'terrorist organization.' it is poorly run, but we aren't about to go nuke the world for the fun of it.

quote>

And neither is Iran or North Korea, since they said they'd only nuke America is America nuked them. Well, I'm not sure about Iran. They're kinda weird lately.

[hym 358]

Honestly, this technology has been in development for two decades and it is unlikely that people will be able to halt its eventually deployment.  The knowledge is now out for all to gather.  It would be better to have it working for you rather than against you.  That said, my opinion is that it needs to be deployed.

[Meg 368]

Date: 1/12/2006 7:57:01 PM Author: The Terminator

 

OR.....

this is media hype, wich it might likely be, i remember skigeek saying somewhere, when she grew up in the 60s she was always being told that the world wont be around when she grew up, i think the same is becoming true for todays day and age.

 

quote>

Yay!  Someone heard what I was saying!  

 

He is right, guys.  As a kid I was always being told the world won't be around when I grew up.  and, here I am, retired, and the world is still around.  Still a mess, but still around.

 

Take it easy, guys.  Throwing rocks at each other isn't going to help.

[Cjah 15]

Date: 1/13/2006 1:08:08 AM Author: SkiGeek

Date: 1/12/2006 7:57:01 PM Author: The Terminator

OR.....

this is media hype, wich it might likely be, i remember skigeek saying somewhere, when she grew up in the 60s she was always being told that the world wont be around when she grew up, i think the same is becoming true for todays day and age.

quote>

Yay!  Someone heard what I was saying! 

He is right, guys.  As a kid I was always being told the world won't be around when I grew up.  and, here I am, retired, and the world is still around.  Still a mess, but still around.

Take it easy, guys.  Throwing rocks at each other isn't going to help.

quote>

Yep TT isn't the only listener....I remember that from either a while ago or recently...either way it is a pretty true statement.

 

I just hope one day that I can move to a peaceful nation and live worry free in isolation...Cause if your cut off from the media then your cut off from 90% of the lies out there...

[EAGCE 2]

People....If its possible to do it, evenutally someone will do it. It's better for us to do this and be able to discover defenses to it before someone else discovers how to do this.

If we didnt discover this and someone else did, they may use it on us and we wouldnt know what hit us.

[Voar Tok 4]

Date: 1/13/2006 1:10:56 AM Author: Cjah

Date: 1/13/2006 1:08:08 AM Author: SkiGeek

Date: 1/12/2006 7:57:01 PM Author: The Terminator

OR.....

this is media hype, wich it might likely be, i remember skigeek saying somewhere, when she grew up in the 60s she was always being told that the world wont be around when she grew up, i think the same is becoming true for todays day and age.

Yay!  Someone heard what I was saying! 

He is right, guys.  As a kid I was always being told the world won't be around when I grew up.  and, here I am, retired, and the world is still around.  Still a mess, but still around.

Take it easy, guys.  Throwing rocks at each other isn't going to help.

Yep TT isn't the only listener....I remember that from either a while ago or recently...either way it is a pretty true statement.

I just hope one day that I can move to a peaceful nation and live worry free in isolation...Cause if your cut off from the media then your cut off from 90% of the lies out there...

The news that this is coming into existence isn't a lie, but I definitely agree that the world will still be around after the creation of this.  People have been crying that the world is coming to an end for thousands of years, and while it will eventually get there, it's not happening in my lifetime.  A few years ago (actually, according to their own dating, it was on Sept. 11, 2001) Popular Mechanics published an article on a weapon that the military had developed called the E-Bomb .  People were I live blew a gasket when they heard about this bomb saying that the world would be gone by 2002.  Well, here is 2006, and we are all still here.  So, I'm not concerned about the world being incinerated in the least.

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 1/13/2006 1:08:08 AM Author: SkiGeek

Date: 1/12/2006 7:57:01 PM Author: The Terminator

OR.....

this is media hype, wich it might likely be, i remember skigeek saying somewhere, when she grew up in the 60s she was always being told that the world wont be around when she grew up, i think the same is becoming true for todays day and age.

quote>

Yay!  Someone heard what I was saying! 

He is right, guys.  As a kid I was always being told the world won't be around when I grew up.  and, here I am, retired, and the world is still around.  Still a mess, but still around.

Take it easy, guys.  Throwing rocks at each other isn't going to help.

quote>

It may happen sooner than people think. The world is getting increasingly unstable as of late. I mean, who would've thought of 2 planes hitting buildings years ago?? When it happened, we thought it unthinkable. Tomorrow, it might be the hijacking or destruction of various ultilities around the world.

 

Dirty water, no power, or even worse is the scenario where a nuclear power plant is taken over. It sounds cliched, but considering how terrorists work, it is a very possible likelihood. This laid-back attitude might not last too long when it all hits home or someone whom you care about. We always think 'It's gonna happen to someone else'. But as Calvin's dad (from the comic Calvin and Hobbes) noted, 'we're all someone else to someone else'.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Date: 1/13/2006 1:14:05 AM Author: EAGCE People....If its possible to do it, evenutally someone will do it.  It's better for us to do this and be able to discover defenses to it before someone else discovers how to do this. If we didnt discover this and someone else did, they may use it on us and we wouldnt know what hit us.

quote>

 

Giant Mirrors. !

 

 

[ancientsociety 26]

MayorTim: no weapon has ever been 100% accurate. It's simply impossible. Sure, a laser may work well in the vacuum of space but who's to say that it wouldn't be affected by going through miles of atmosphere?

A laser would always hit the correct target, would not cause any considerable explosion that might harm civillians or infrastructure, and would cause no long term side effects like an Atom Bomb.

 

How do you know? When the DoD developed the atom bomb and Truman decided to drop it right in the middle of an urban area (even though many of his advisors wanted a show of force by dropping it in the countryside), the US claimed it was a valid military target and civilian casualty reports were EXTREMELY underestimated. I've asked the question already...what would prevent a nation from utilizing this weapon against civilian infrastructure? It's so easy to fry a battalion of soldiers, why wouldn't we go after the chance to strike the root of the cause (i.e. power stations, industry, transportation, etc.)? This was another reason why politicians increased nuclear proliferation - that these weapons would only be used to hit military targets. But in a war with megaweapons what is or isn't a military target???

 

As a student of military history though I do agree taht it is part of human nature and war will never stop however that doesn't mean we should simply let technology be developed that could cause our extinction.

[ancientsociety 26]

EAGCE: People....If its possible to do it, evenutally someone will do it.  It's better for us to do this and be able to discover defenses to it before someone else discovers how to do this.

If we didnt discover this and someone else did, they may use it on us and we wouldnt know what hit us.

 

This is classic fear-mongering propaganda. Who else in this world has

 

1. The BILLIONS of dollars to develop, produce, and maintain such a weapon?

2. The high level of scientific education to create scientists with the knowledge to develop this?

3. The liberal, non-theological scientific community for these scientists to operate in?

4. The high-tech, quality industry to produce the weapon's systems?

5. The viable, well-staffed space agency to launch this weapon?

 

 

I'm sure a few coutries meet some (maybe most) of these requirements. However, only the US, has ALL of these things. So who else could develop it? That's like saying that, even though the US has about 10,000 ICBMs still active, that we should produce and develop large and more powerful missiles because some day, far in the future, someone else could get their hands on an entire arsenal of thermonuclear weapons.