Modify trees that show up on JRJ SAM

[junspud 1,069]

I'm trying to figure out how to modify the trees that show up with JRJ SAM Street Side Trees mod. So far I've opened the DAT file in Reader, is it possible to just modify specific exemplars to point to a different prop, or is it more complicated than that?

[markussaage 762]

As far as I know, Props like trees on street mods are so called T21s. If you want to change something, you've got to remove those Props in LotEditor/PIM-X for every single tile, that's used in this MOD! That can be a lot of work, so be aware, and of course, it is always a good idea to change IIDs, if you mod a MOD, just to prevent problems.

Good luck and kind regards!

[junspud 1,069]

13 hours ago, markussaage said:

As far as I know, Props like trees on street mods are so called T21s. If you want to change something, you've got to remove those Props in LotEditor/PIM-X for every single tile, that's used in this MOD! That can be a lot of work, so be aware, and of course, it is always a good idea to change IIDs, if you mod a MOD, just to prevent problems.

Good luck and kind regards!

Thanks.. I tried opening the .dat file for the mod (it's only a single file) in PIM-X but I can't find anything having to do with it unfortunately. I'll have to read up more on T21s. I wish I would have gotten into this stuff back in the day when I had more time and energy for it ha.

[markussaage 762]

Ofc, maybe the real pros of T21s kick in here and tell you, what can be done. If there's only one exemplar file, try to open it in iLive's Reader and look at it. It probably just overrides a Maxis file or so. Then you have to work your way back to the source (the acutal lot file), where the models and props are located.

Kind regards!

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

Hi junspud:

I am Ray, This does seem like too much of a coincidence, i did the same things as you did. But right now i am ouside without PC. I use iLivereader to modify this, i will share you some information tonight later when i go back. Btw i am chinese, so please forgive me for my poor english.

[rsc204 21,866]

T21's are "like" lots, in that they use the LotConfigPropertyLotObject data to define the props and positions of them. This property contains many reps which define where on the X, Y, Z axis a prop will sit and much more, see here for complete info sorry, unable to link to that, since it's missing on the SC4DWiki at this time.

However, unlike lots which use these same properties, T21 can not be edited in the Lot Editor. T21's are always a 1x1 lot, do not contain Buildings, Textures or other items either, only Props. A common method is to make a 1x1 lot template (or more), then copy these LotConfigPropertyLotObject fields (Props, i.e. those starting with 0x00000001) from the LotConfiguration Exemplar and the T21 Exemplar. Likewise if you wanted to see/edit an existing T21 in the LotEditor, you'd just work the opposite way around.

In this case, it should be sufficient to simply edit the final Rep of a given T21, this is always the IID of the Prop Exemplar that links to a given model.

23 hours ago, markussaage said:

and of course, it is always a good idea to change IIDs, if you mod a MOD, just to prevent problems.

Often a good idea, but if you do that with T21s, you might end up with undesirable effects. Only by using the same ID, will you modify that piece. Given that you can apply many T21s to a single network piece, normally it's best to modify the existing exemplars. Using new IDs would in all likelihood create a sort of "prop family", where your new T21 competes with the existing one/(s).

Occasionally a "Cancellation T21" might be needed, which simply overrides an existing T21, so that it is suppressed.

On 05/10/2019 at 5:28 AM, junspud said:

is it possible to just modify specific exemplars to point to a different prop, or is it more complicated than that?

Yes, provided you aren't looking to alter anything except which prop shows for a given T21.

[markussaage 762]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Often a good idea, but if you do that with T21s, you might end up with undesirable effects. Only by using the same ID, will you modify that piece. Given that you can apply many T21s to a single network piece, normally it's best to modify the existing exemplars. Using new IDs would in all likelihood create a sort of "prop family", where your new T21 competes with the existing one/(s).

That's right, I forgot about that... Sorry, my bad!

Kind regards!

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

Hi Junspud !

It is glad to talk this topic with you. And i notice your subject is 

On 2019/10/5 at 11:28 AM, junspud said:

JRJ SAM Street Side Trees mod

But the mod what i modified is JRJ Street side MOD, but i think maybe they all have something in common. So i decide to share some info to you, btw i am a beginner, but i love this game.

This is a snapshot of Reader, at the top of the pic there is the path of the main dat files(\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Sidestreetcars MOD). I must say the name "Sidestreetcars" did confuse me at the very beginning,. I take one of files in this directory for example, as i think the difference between them is just the Zone types and Wealth types.

3 hours ago, rsc204 said:

In this case, it should be sufficient to simply edit the final Rep of a given T21, this is always the IID of the Prop Exemplar that links to a given model.

As rsc204 said , the final part of every LotconfigPropertyLotObject and ObjectData is the IID of the Prop you want, but in this case some of them are Exemplars, some of them are point to Cohort files.

 

I don't know if it is useful, below i give some IIDs (and the directory you can located the files contain them  )  i found relate to this MOD. You can decide which one to be replaced and also you can get the clue from the file's name :

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Street trees\AcerSmall_StreetMod 0xA00003D7

 \Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Street trees\EucalFraxSmall_Streetsmod 0xA00003D1

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Street trees\IstriniusSmall_streetsmod 0xA00003D2

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Street trees\Olmos Ind 0xA00003D0

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Street trees\SalixSmall_StreetMod 0xA00003D4

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Street trees\UlmusSmall_StreetMod 0xA00003D3

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Street trees\UlmusSmallLight_StreetMod 0xA00003D5

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ  MICKEBEAR StreetLights 0xA00003D9 0xA00003DC

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Street Taxis 0xA00003DB

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Street TrashContainers 0xA00003D8  0xA00003D6

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Street Urban Bus 0xA00003DA

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Streets planters 0xD1712D9C  0x11712D79  0x71712D63

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Streets Signals  0x71712DC1    0x71712DD2  0x31712DDE  0x31712E04  0x31712DF8  0x11712DEB  0x51712E0E

\Plugins\Jeronij\JRJ Street side MOD\JRJ Street Parking lots SEMI_OPTIONAL   0xF16D30AF  0xF16D48C7  0xF16D3555

Andreas_CP_Street_Deciduous_Trees.dat 0xFF5F8000

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And in my MOD there are still some dependences like "BSCPropsJeronij VOL3 Tree Season woods" , "BSC CP PropPack Vol2" , "BSC Prop Pack Cycledogg 1" , Main IID Below :

BSCPropsJeronij VOL3 Tree Season woods  0xA00003BC  0xA00003CD 0xA00003CE 0xA00003CF 0xA00003BE 0xA00003BD 0xA00003C4 0xA00003C8 0xA00003C6 0xA00003C7

                                                                                0xA00003C0 0xA00003C1 0xA00003C2 0xA00003C3 0xA00003C5 0xA00003C9 0xA00003BF 0xA00003CA 0xA00003CB 0xA00003CC

And also this common one  SimCity_1.dat  0xA0000038 (I think this is a car cluster)

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Sorry for wasn't able to be more helpful and well you know, english is not my native language. So please excuse me if i am rude.

Kind Regards,

- Raymond

[rsc204 21,866]

1 minute ago, Raymond7cn said:

As rsc204 said , the final part of every LotconfigPropertyLotObject and ObjectData is the IID of the Prop you want, but in this case some of them are Exemplars, some of them are point to Cohort files.

It's not actually the Cohorts that are being linked, but rather the Prop Family which the Cohort belongs too. Bear in mind that having a Cohort is not necessary for a Family to function, but can be referenced by the Property Building/Prop Family in the Prop Exemplars. Also that the Cohort IID is usually different from the Prop Family ID too.

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

7 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

It's not actually the Cohorts that are being linked, but rather the Prop Family which the Cohort belongs too. Bear in mind that having a Cohort is not necessary for a Family to function, but can be referenced by the Property Building/Prop Family in the Prop Exemplars. Also that the Cohort IID is usually different from the Prop Family ID too.

Hi Rsc204, Thank you very much, i appreciate your correction. Now i understand the Cohort 's meaning, i think it's something like CLASS in JAVA.

May i ask a question here, i prefer the girafe 's VIP trees, they are all pretty beautiful. I want use them in T21, for example , replace the JRJ Street side MOD 's trees.

But when i replace the IID with the seasonal exemplar's ID, i found that Although  the trees has been replaced with the girafe's trees, but they are not seasonal. I mean the new trees didnot change their seasonal apperences when the game running. Can you help me or teach me how to add seasonal tree to a T21?  Thank you very much ! 

 

[rsc204 21,866]

5 hours ago, Raymond7cn said:

Now i understand the Cohort 's meaning, i think it's something like CLASS in JAVA.

It's function is simply so that when using the Lot Editor, you can see a Named family, rather than just an ID. For example, ID 0x5F85E400 might mean something to the creator, but having "Trucks" listed in the Lot Editor is much more user friendly. Note the property Exemplar Name in the Cohort, that's what users then see.

There are differences between regular and timed (i.e. Seasonal) props, mainly that for each Season you must have a Prop. So in T21 terms, that means instead of one 0x00000001 entry, you need 3 or 4 of them, one for each seasonal variant. The best way to do that would be to "copy" the T21's LotConfigPropertyLotObject data to a blank 1x1 LotConfiguration Exemplar in Reader. Then you can stack the seasonal tree props, for Girafe's trees that would be three, Summer, Autumn and Winter, all in the same place using the Lot Editor. The game itself has no idea about Seasons, the Props are just timed so the right one appears at a given date and disappears for the rest of the time. You really have to resort to the Lot Editor here, unless you understand all the values (Reps) in the LotConfigPropertyLotObject property. Afterwards copy the entries the other way around in Reader to refresh the T21 data, making sure not to copy Buildings, Textures or other items.

Another thing to consider, although it's unlikely to be the cause of your current problem, it the use of the Resource Key Type #xm property for mirrored pieces. Mirrored T21s won't display non-mirrored props. To fix this you need to copy the relevant Prop Exemplars you are using, for each copy the Resource Key Type # property, then paste a duplicate. Double click the duplicate and change the property from Resource Key Type # to Resource Key Type #xm, ensuring the number (#) isn't changed.

I've attached a very simple set of T21s for the Street Ortho piece and relevant Prop Exemplar modifications. These together will add Seasonal Beeches to your streets. Hopefully those will be a useful reference to see what I'm getting at. Note though the T21s include other props as well as trees, which you may not need for your version. So these aren't really intended as a template, but just a reference.

MGB_GrfeTrees_Street.dat

GrfeBeeches - XM Prop Overrides.dat

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

Thank you everybody, I 'm really kind of learning so much. Especially to RSC204 ! Your professional reply really helpful, I use your method and it worked in game. Thank you very much. When i finish it i will share with you.

[junspud 1,069]

21 hours ago, Raymond7cn said:

Thank you everybody, I 'm really kind of learning so much. Especially to RSC204 ! Your professional reply really helpful, I use your method and it worked in game. Thank you very much. When i finish it i will share with you.

Second this,

 

On 10/6/2019 at 9:46 AM, Raymond7cn said:

Hi Junspud !

It is glad to talk this topic with you. And i notice your subject is 

But the mod what i modified is JRJ Street side MOD, but i think maybe they all have something in common. So i decide to share some info to you, btw i am a beginner, but i love this game.

Sorry for wasn't able to be more helpful and well you know, english is not my native language. So please excuse me if i am rude.

Kind Regards,

- Raymond

This is very helpful actually thank you, I'm still learning to use the reader and figuring out what is what and what needs to be changed, so it's excellent.

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

3 hours ago, junspud said:

Second this,

 

This is very helpful actually thank you, I'm still learning to use the reader and figuring out what is what and what needs to be changed, so it's excellent.

Yeah amigo, when i finish my seasonal JRJ , i will share you . By then, i look forward your correction and suggestion ! 

[junspud 1,069]

Having trouble figuring out which exemplar I need to open to edit the prop IDs, so as to switch out the trees props that show up..

What I wish is that it was possible to entirely replace one prop with another. A lot of the older trees are, compared to the newer ones, hideous.

[rsc204 21,866]

10 hours ago, junspud said:

Having trouble figuring out which exemplar I need to open to edit the prop IDs

A good reference is to look in the dependencies used for the mod, filter out only Exemplars and take a screenshot or note down the IID of them. Then you can at least look up the IDs as you come across them.

Otherwise you pretty much have to copy the data to lots so you can work visually in the Lot Editor. Either method adds to the workload frankly.

10 hours ago, junspud said:

What I wish is that it was possible to entirely replace one prop with another.

That's much simpler, just create an override. As above, find all the relevant Exemplars and make a copy of them. DO NOT re-ID these Exemplars, the idea is to use them as overrides for the originals. Now for each copied Exemplar alter the RTK ID to the tree you want to replace the one of the original Exemplar. This way the Exemplar IDs are still there, so you don't have to refresh your T21s, it just dynamically updates the tree models.

Where this method comes unstuck is changing non-seasonal trees to seasonal ones or vice versa. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, you'll need to add/remove props, depending on the changes you are making. But the real deal-killer is that changing the RKT type # of existing props leads to Prop Pox. I.e. you can't safely override an RKT 1 Exemplar (non-seasonal) to an RKT 4 (seasonal) or vice versa. In this case you would need to give the Prop Exemplars unique IDs. Which means you'd still have to go through the process of altering all the T21s, you'd also need to refresh them in-game before the old ones were replaced.

[junspud 1,069]

Luckily I don't mind having them non-seasonal so that makes it simpler. BTW the seasonal jrj override you included looks very nice, the HD trees look so much  better. I'm going to try and port it over to the asphalt version of the jrj sam street trees mod. It will probably take me a while cause honestly this stuff is pretty daunting at the moment.

[junspud 1,069]

On 10/13/2019 at 11:09 AM, rsc204 said:

But the real deal-killer is that changing the RKT type # of existing props leads to Prop Pox. I.e. you can't safely override an RKT 1 Exemplar (non-seasonal) to an RKT 4 (seasonal) or vice versa. In this case you would need to give the Prop Exemplars unique IDs. Which means you'd still have to go through the process of altering all the T21s, you'd also need to refresh them in-game before the old ones were replaced.

Is this true even with the dll fixes plugin applied?

[markussaage 762]

@junspud: unfortunately Yes!

Kind regards!

[junspud 1,069]

So to edit the trees that show up, it's necessary to go through each of these exemplars and modify the highlighted properties, the last section of the lotconfigpropertyobectdata being the props I want to show up?

 

 

 

 

[junspud 1,069]

16 hours ago, markussaage said:

@junspud: unfortunately Yes!

Kind regards!

Does having the file 'PEG_OWW2_BDK_RESOURCE.DAT'  in the plugins folder still cause prop pox as well?

[markussaage 762]

@junspud: As far as I know: YES! Just to be safe, I've removed all files in question from my Plugins.

Sorry and kind regards!

[rsc204 21,866]

10 hours ago, junspud said:

Does having the file 'PEG_OWW2_BDK_RESOURCE.DAT'  in the plugins folder still cause prop pox as well?

In theory, this is the only file that is known to trigger the Prop Pox problem. However, as with the trees, making new Exemplars with unique ID's solves the issue, so you don't have to remove the BDK file entirely. I've been using PEG's files as long as I've been playing, it's great content that I wouldn't want to miss out upon.

On 26/10/2019 at 7:23 AM, junspud said:

Is this true even with the dll fixes plugin applied?

Actually there is a good chance that with the latest version of SC4Fix.dll installed, that no problems would occur. That version looked to address such issues and can restore Prop Poxed cities into working save files once more. However, there simply hasn't been sufficient testing/feedback to say with absolute certainty that no problems can occur. As such, it would still be a good idea to try to avoid the causes of this issue in the first place.

On 26/10/2019 at 2:29 PM, junspud said:

So to edit the trees that show up, it's necessary to go through each of these exemplars and modify the highlighted properties, the last section of the lotconfigpropertyobectdata being the props I want to show up?

Well a given T21 file might have one tree, more than one tree or no trees, but each of those entries is a Prop of some kind. In the first instance you need to know which are trees and which aren't. For those which are, you need to edit the final rep to the IID of the Prop Exemplar of your new tree to use. But it gets more complex, because if you are making them seasonal, you'll need to add 2 or 3 completely new entries for the additional season models.

 

[junspud 1,069]

10 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Well a given T21 file might have one tree, more than one tree or no trees, but each of those entries is a Prop of some kind. In the first instance you need to know which are trees and which aren't. For those which are, you need to edit the final rep to the IID of the Prop Exemplar of your new tree to use. But it gets more complex, because if you are making them seasonal, you'll need to add 2 or 3 completely new entries for the additional season models.

 

I see, thank you, I wasn't exactly quite sure what it was I had to do, now I actually understand.

I don't think I'm going to mess with seasonal stuff at all for now, I don't think I actually have a grasp on what I'd need to do exactly, unlike simply replacing some of the trees. My main goal is just to remove/replace some of the brightly colored, low resolution trees used in the original JRJ Sam Streets, I think they must not have aged well.

As you can see, the low res trees don't mix very well. Also want to get rid of the palm trees that show up.

I don't think the trees used in this plugin are seasonal, so replacing them with non-seasonal shouldn't be an issue I take it? If they were seasonal, would replacing them with non-seasonal cause prop pox issues?

@markussaage For what it's worth, I've had that dat file in my plugins for at least a year, along with the dll fix plugin, last night  I went through my cities in SC4 Save Tool and all of them seem to be pox free. That's not to say removing it isn't a safer option. Unfortunately my plugins folder has become somewhat of a disaster and removing that specific dat would be a major hassle, it's been datpacked along with a bunch of other stuff and I didn't keep a coherent backup of the original folder structure.

[rsc204 21,866]

8 hours ago, junspud said:

If they were seasonal, would replacing them with non-seasonal cause prop pox issues?

I suspect so, but I don't think anyone tried it the other way round.

8 hours ago, junspud said:

I don't think the trees used in this plugin are seasonal, so replacing them with non-seasonal shouldn't be an issue I take it?

Indeed. If you find the original Prop Exemplars (nothing to do with the T21 side of things), then just alter the RKT # ID as appropriate to link to the new tree model you want, instead of the old one, you'll get exactly what you are after. So long as you don't change any RKT1 props to RKT4 or vice-versa, this is typically the quickest solution to alter existing props/mods.

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

Hey, everybody! I am back. Finally i finished my JRJ's Replace work. I replaced all the trees with girafe's HD seasonal trees, I have to say it takes hours to modify the T21 and plenty of work for me. But whatever when i saw the dream come true in the game, It's going to be worth it. Below there are some pictures of the result:

These are not the most beautiful views of my city, The Ash and Rowan are my favorite, but since the trees came out by random, So i will just trying to capture them next time.

I use 13 kinds of Girafe’s seasonal trees(each of them has 3 to 7 species of appearences). And I also made the Avenue,Street,Road,Oneway side’s seasonal trees. With the Road and Oneway, I also deleted the colorful parking signs, since it’s not match in my opinion. When i modifing i try some strange ideas for a faster way to do it, unfortune, most of them were failed, I just simply replace each tree for three or two(autumn,summer winter||summer winter) props . After all i am not profession, I am still growing.

Next step I want to replace some other staffs with HD one, Such as car bench or trash can with my taste.

And I have rsc204 to thank for it. Also with the help of the tools 'DATANode'(help me to figure out what to be replaced quickly).

 

 

 

[junspud 1,069]

On 10/29/2019 at 2:17 AM, Raymond7cn said:

Hey, everybody! I am back. Finally i finished my JRJ's Replace work. I replaced all the trees with girafe's HD seasonal trees, I have to say it takes hours to modify the T21 and plenty of work for me. But whatever when i saw the dream come true in the game, It's going to be worth it. Below there are some pictures of the result:

These are not the most beautiful views of my city, The Ash and Rowan are my favorite, but since the trees came out by random, So i will just trying to capture them next time.

I use 13 kinds of Girafe’s seasonal trees(each of them has 3 to 7 species of appearences). And I also made the Avenue,Street,Road,Oneway side’s seasonal trees. With the Road and Oneway, I also deleted the colorful parking signs, since it’s not match in my opinion. When i modifing i try some strange ideas for a faster way to do it, unfortune, most of them were failed, I just simply replace each tree for three or two(autumn,summer winter||summer winter) props . After all i am not profession, I am still growing.

 

 

 

 

Very nice. Would you mind telling me, did you do that girafe.txt manually or is it generated somehow?

 

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

On 2019/11/6 at 10:27 AM, junspud said:

Very nice. Would you mind telling me, did you do that girafe.txt manually or is it generated somehow?

 

Hi Junspud, I did it with the help of SC4DataNode, It helps me to figure out what i needed exactly and quickly with the export (csv file). After that i collect the useful info by myself manually and some excel functions. Then replace with Reader. I understand you and i also want to find i decent way to do the repetitive and mechanical jobs. But still searching by now.

[rsc204 21,866]

Sans some pretty specific cases, most modding tasks like this are always going to be repetitive. Reader does offer the ability to write LUA scripts, which in theory could be used to automate tasks. But, that requires you can code/write LUA to the required level. Not to mention, for one off mods this may end up being more work than the modding itself. I don't think I've actually seen a single example of an LUA plugin for Reader.

Ideally T21s would work best with a Lot Editor style interface for editing the lots. Vortext did find a method for combining Lots/T21s in a single exemplar, which is about the closest I know to being able to use the LE for T21s.

[junspud 1,069]

I think I must be doing this wrong. I tried replacing a palm tree prop with Rowan trees in reader, but it didn't work.

I tried copying over all of the RKT values from the Rowan tree exemplars into the palm trees thinking it might override them in game, but it does not. Am I editing the wrong file and exemplars?

I'd like to override the palm trees because they've been showing up in high concentrations along streets/roads, and it looks like it's the Canary Palm trees as opposed to the Maxis ones.