Pack OVERLOAD!!!

[Buggi 685]

Do a search on the STEX for Pack and you'll get 23 PAGES of results.

This

Is

Crazy

 

Time to consolidate people! Years of pumping out the products leaves the STEX is tough shape.

 

I mean, wouldn't it be nice to have all the textures you need in one pack? All the props in another?

 

How about all things Canal in one install? Just host super huge files on FileUniverse, they won't mind.

 

I wish Oppie would come back and update his stuff. The sporatic and confusing system he has most of his work on makes things most difficult to organize.

 

There needs to exist some SimGoober Super Installer with all his marvels. Athough I must say he's the best at keeping stuff straight. BSC and PEG are the worst. OY!!

*pokes pegasus* I love your stuff (LOVE ) but dude, time to consolidate!

 

You guys are such good modelers, I wish you were RTS fans! I'd have you working on a mod for the game Supreme Commander by Chris Taylor (a la Total Annihilation). I had lunch with Mr. Taylor and got the full scoop on the game to be released next year. I may even get a job there sometime next year. When it comes to my gaming passion I am pretty stern on quality.

 

So, bottom line, time to Pack UP! literally! Squish the creations together to be easier on us poor mortals.

 

-Buggi

[SamFlash 0]

Go Buggi go!!  (Much applause in the background)  I agree with every word.  As many prop paks as I've got, which is almost all, I still run into the occasional problem.  It drives me nuts when I have to find a BSC prop that I don't already have.  I know I have duplicates of some but because the name changes slightly I'm afraid to delete any of them just in case there really is a difference.

[mteach2000 13]

Keeping the applause going, I'll echo what SamFlash said. Somehow I can still be missing something after two years of diligent collection.

[Buggi 685]

I can't imagine how much overhead that causes your game when you start up.

 

I know with the files I have already it is noticable when starting up. And I've only been collecting for about 4 months now.

[dev 47]

Perfectly said.

Enough said.

[DuskTrooper 316]

Indeed.

[Buggi 685]

That attitude is what is grating actually. Perhaps this issue is pointed out so many times (causing you bordom) because it is truly an issue not just some rant.

Don't get me wrong, I adore the effort and marvel at the beauty of the creations. I'm always on the lookout for new stuff.

 

It is just when I see a sweet new release that has 4 different things listed as dependancies I get flustered. Do I have these? Should I download them again? Where is the newest version?

 

It's frustrating not knowing if you have the most up-to-date versions of anything, and when something does have an update it comes in a NEW download *cough*PEG*cough*.

 

What we need *pokes Dirk* is a place for one, and only one, listing of dependancy files for each group where they can update that area as needed and keep it separate from the STEX. That way, someone could click on the new Dependancy link under the ST EXchange section to your left and get the most up-to-date list of required files.

 

Perhaps it is going to take a senior member to get things in better shape, so be it. I've obviously got the ball rolling. Or hopping...

[deadwoods 542]

Buggi, you make some very valid points and, yes, the dependencies are a PITA. But as has been said before there are some limitations that we (i.e. anyone that makes lots where the building doesn't take up the bulk of the lot) have to work within.

Obviously one option is to not use any custom props, only the ones Maxis gave us. But then the lots would get pretty boring pretty quick. Most of the farming lots would not be feasible if we did that.

We have to work within Dirk's infrastructure limits, i.e. max of 10M per download on the STEX. This kindof limits us, some of the mega packs we've put out are close to that limit. I had to split up the Amsterdam Centraal Station lot because of it. If we go away from ST to host this stuff, Dirk and the admins lose control, and in the modern world of virus' it's nice to know the stuff on the STEX is relatively safe (i.e. there are a limited number of trusted folks who can modify the download files on the STEX).

Within the BSC we're very focussed on a) maintenance and b) re-use. If we were to roll the props up into a mega .dat file (which would I suspect significant reduce the load time of the game) then maintaining the file becomes impossible (without some sort of professions source control system which costs money). If we packaged the props with the lots that use them, we reduce the re-usability of them. If another lot maker wanted to re-use a prop, they'd have to refer to the lot on the STEX rather than the prop pack. The BSC does try to pump out mega prop and texture packs to simplify things.

Your final point about a prop/texture repository/DB has a ton of merit. It could make management of prop packs a lot simpler. This is something Dirk would have to implement as an extension of the STEX.

[Bandero 5]

Ok, Guys, I'm putting my 2 Cents here. This is what I always do, everytime I come to Simtropolis, the first thing I check, it's not the BAT or LOT seccion of the STEX, but rather the PROPS and TEXTURES parts.

Most of the good BATters DO post thier Props and Textures FIRST for future Lots, rewards, Bats, etc.

I do agree that life should be a lot easier if all of the dependancies were in one or two ultrapacks, but nothing is perfect and the way I see it, if I have to DL a few extra files to put that X BAT on my city, it must be worth the efford. On the other hand, if you have installed (for example) all the megapacks from BSC, then you have little to worry because most of the stuff coming out right now it's using those packs.

One more thing, do not come and complain about Brown Boxes, always READ THE README File . It always have a list of dependencies with links pointed at where to download them

Last, but not least, I hope this thread doesn't turn into another flame war (like I've seen it in the past). I do enjoy those wonderful creations and it will be sad if those creators will take them elsewhere or worse, stop making them altogheter.

[Vlakhaas 13]

Here is something I am sure many did not read or see ...

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?mode=files&filetype=Prop&Str=csx%20essentials

 

If you install this file on your PC there is a new Shortcut on your Desktop and that leads to a Proplinks page that has most of the BSC Dependency files in a simple clickable link right there on your PC ... the list is sorted by creator.

 

 

[+Guest]

My 2.5 cents on BSC:

    The team of BSC/CSX have done awesome job and deserve a big thanx from everyone in this community.

 

   Every Lot BSC/CSX has given this community makes the game Lots look finger paintings.If more folks would take the time to then the issue of Props wouldn't be a problem.

 

   The latest CSX Essential update goes above and beyond what anyone in there right mind would do.

 

  So cut BSC/CSX some slack and .

[Vandy 110]

Hello, All.

 

1)  Is it a pain to have to read the Read_Me file to find out about dependencies?

 

2)  Is it a pain to have to search the STEX to find a given dependency?

 

3)  Is it a pain to look through my own STEX Vault on my hard drive and CDs looking for a dependency?

 

4)  Would it be a better world if everyone did things the way I wanted them done?

 

---------------

 

1)  No.

Read_Me files are placed with software for one reason -- to be read.  In over 30 years of being an end-user and vendor in the Data Communications and IT Industries, I maintain that 95% of the information being looked for can be found in Read_Me files and documentation.

 

Would I prefer that someone spoon-feed me everything I need and not have to lift my own fingers?  Of course!  Is it going to happen?  Not in my lifetime!

 

I have no problem reading documentation to find out vital information about software I will be using.  How else am I going to learn it?

 

Read_Me files are a valuable source of information and certainly should be consulted to ensure you have everything needed as well as understand how to use the software.

 

I could go as far as to say that NOT reading the Read_Me is NO EXCUSE for not having what you need but I'll stop just short of that...

 

2)  No.

I can only speak for myself but one of my favorite pastimes is typing in a seemingly random search word in the STEX and see what results I get.  You'd be surprised at the number of items I've downloaded and used just by doing this.

 

To have to go to the STEX and search for a specific item is no big deal.  Then again, I have downloaded most if not all of the dependencies needed already.  THAT is something I did (and continue to do) very early in my tenure at ST.

 

I won't go as far as to say that I don't get frustrated now and then when I can't find a specific item called for.  What has worked very well for me is to PM/E-mail the item's creator or the dependency's creator and ask them for help in finding the item.  I have had great success in doing this and wish to thank all (you know who you are) who have so generously responded to my questions and requests for help.

 

3)  No.

I am a very well organized individual.  My personal STEX Vault is segregated by Type, Category and Creator.  Consequently, if I need to find a BAT/Lot that is a restaurant made by NDEX, I go into my Categorized Lots - Restaurants, Bars and Diners - NDEX folder structure and look for the desired BAT/Lot.  Likewise, if I am looking for a prop made by BSC, I go into my Categorized Props - BSC folder structure and find the desired prop(s).

 

If I may be indulged, I want to STRESS the word ORGANIZE.  If you do not organize what you've downloaded, God help you in trying to make sense of where and what it is!

 

4)  No.

It is wrong to think that the world will cater to you and your own personal wants and desires.  The best we can hope for and work towards is to find a compromise where all of the different types of people, personalities and resources can function together in a cohesive and easily comprehended manner.

 

-----------------

 

Now...

 

Having had my say above, I would like to go on record and state that a way to reconcile, codify and otherwise keep track of dependencies would be greatly appreciated and, I'm sure, quite widely used.  On that note, I would like to point out that the latest CSX Essentials is a GODSEND when it comes to looking for and finding a dependency.  Thanks to Vlakhass and CSX for all of the hard work that went into this great resource.

 

Nonetheless, If Master Dirk has the wherewithall AND available resources, this type of dependency database would be a wonderful asset to add to ST.  I would like it understood that this type of database would be very resource intensive -- both in time keeping it updated as well as in space storing it.  Because of these reasons, the Administrator of Simtropolis MUST have the final say as it would ultimately end up his responsibility to ensure the database remains up-to-date and useful to the community.

 

In closing, let me thank all who have shared their concerns and ideas on this subject.  After all, isn't THAT what a forum is for -- to express one's ideas, thoughts and opinions.  I very much appreciate that this thread has managed to remain civil and not degenerate into another flame thread.  It is quite refreshing to be able to be part of a discussion in which actual good, solid, valid and useable information is exchanged.

 

My thanks to all of the BATters, Lot Makers, Prop Makers, Texture Makers, Map Makers  -- ALL the makers -- for their wonderful contrubutions to the Simtropolis community as well as to enhancing our SC4 gaming pleasure with their creations.  Please know that your contributions are very welcome and, without them, SC4 would be a dull game indeed.

 

Regards,

 

Vandy

[SamFlash 0]

Having a civil discussion and sharing frustrations and ideas is not having a flame war.  I'm probably typical of most members here in that I use a great number of bats, lots and mods from the STEX and am in awe of the talented people here who give so freely of their time.  I would never want to go back to using only the original Maxis lots.  I fully understand that the issue with dependencies is just as frustrating to the creators as it is to the users but if we all work together on a solution, even an imperfect one for now, the closer we get to a permanent solution that works for everybody.  And that only happens if we talk about it and share ideas.  Keeping quiet about it won't get us anywhere. 

Vlakhaas - Thank you for the link to the latest CSX Essentials update.  I just downloaded it and I'm sure that it will be a big help in keeping track of things.

 

[mrbisonm 1,622]

This matter of course is a very sensitive subject. As one of the oldest members of Simtropolis, I suggested it years ago that the props should be limited or otherwise there will be futur problems.,Well.... It has caused problems for some as I predicted and as we can all see here and there.

I stopped talking about it when I learned how to change the downloaded lots with less props in the Lot Editor and even give it a new look, sometimes even better than the original (besides this is fun), and that is what I do all the time when I download a new lot/Bat, modify them to my liking. I suggest you all do this, because trying to make sense with the propslimit is impossible. This way you will have all the lots and bats you want or need without having to search,understand and download all these props, which actually are not even necessary at all to own a good looking Lot/BAT in your game.

 

I am playing this game without any proppacks nor texturepacks and believe me , the game has become a lot  faster, pleasant and more interesting. I think I have something like 30 individual props or so only.

 

For those lots that I cannot change, I simply delete. You know, you don't have to have every Lot or BAT in your game to make it fun, right?

 

So far I congratulate you all, that this thread did not come out of hand yet. I am proud that this matter can be discussed neutrally and without flaming. Thank you.

 

Please continue like this.

 

mrbisonm

[SamFlash 0]

mrbisonm - Thanks for the tip about using the lot editor to eliminate some of the props.  I've never used it but your description of how it works for you is intriguing and I guess I'd better learn how to use it.  Thanks again.

[bigal888 0]

I would also like to thank everyone for their creations and alos add that it does get frustrating when you miss a prop download and finding out after waiting 10 minutes to load.  It is not too difficult to read the readme and find what props are needed - but after downloading so many lots you start to forget wether or not the props that are required are already downloaded or not.

One question - the group of people that include the auto installer to their lots are definitely my favorite.  Would it be possible to automatically include the required props in those auto-installers?  That way if more people learned how to use the auto-installer and included the props with it, a lot would be solved then.  Is this feasible?

[cogeo 960]

@bigal:

You're right, it's not easy to tell if a specific prop or texture pack is installed or not. But there are several ways to work arround this:

Keep a folder (outside your plugins folder) with everything you download. Keep zipfiles there and do not delete them after installation. If you have installed a prop-pack it doesn't cause any problem to install them again, the installer will just overwrite the datfiles with... the same ones. This is not a problem unless you have modded something to fix bugs or make it fullfil better your own needs.

 

Actually I have more subfolders in my STEX Downloads folder, like Installed to know what I have installed, NeedEval containig plugns I have downloaded but not yet installed/evaluated, Crappy for plugins I tested but didn't like at all (just to know that I HAVE downloaded and installed/evaluated but didn't like and uninstalled them), Problems for plugins that need modifications to better suit my own requirements and gameplay style, and so on.

 

Please note, however, that the tendency lastly is that lot/BAT/prop makers use long, descriptive folder and file names and in most cases they're the same as the plugin's title.

 

EDIT: Including prop pr texture packs in lots is plagiarism as prop and texture makers allow using their creations in lots by pointing to them rather than including them in the packages. In addition this saves us bandwidth as these packages need to be downloaded only once.

[bigal888 0]

yeah, I keep all files that I download in a seperate folder as well - both the zip and unzipped versions.  Right now that folder is starting to get cluttered, but as you say it does help to know what has already been downloaded.  Finding someway to give the prop makers credit would alleviate some problems to the plagarism idea.

[Buggi 685]

Can someone drag Pegasus in here?

He really needs to consolidate. Things are even more confusing at his site. OY...

 

I dare not do a search for Volume or Vol on the STEX either... so many...

 

Can't process...

[Andreas Roth 629]

Date: 12/28/2005 2:15:10 PM Author: bigal888

One question - the group of people that include the auto installer to their lots are definitely my favorite.  Would it be possible to automatically include the required props in those auto-installers?  That way if more people learned how to use the auto-installer and included the props with it, a lot would be solved then.  Is this feasible?

quote>

No, that's not feasible, since it would make the downloads larger, and it would use more server resources (harddisk space, bandwidth, ...). I'm well aware of the problem, and as some of you may know, I've always been one of the persons who stressed that lot developers should try to keep their dependency lists as short as possible. Without any doubt, all those prop and texture packs add a great value to the game, and many lots would look much less appealing.

 

I think there is no ideal way to solve this issue, mainly because everyone has an individual style of playing the game, and most likely you won't find two plugins folder that look exactly the same. One of the great advantages of so many different downloads is that you can specifically select the things you want and leave out stuff that doesn't fit in your cities. Since system resources are always limited, having a small and well-fitting plugins folder can improve the speed of the game notably - just try it yourself and start SimCity with an empty folder once!

 

Downloading dozens of files just to get one lot working can be annoying indeed, but as long as you read the readme file, this should only take a few minutes, and once you have the basic stuff (such as the BSC mega packs), you don't need to worry about them any longer. Many developers, such as the BSC or the SFBT, try to include links to all downloads in their descriptions and readme files, so you can download and install everything that's needed with only a few clicks. Depending on your internet connection, it doesn't take longer than a few minutes.

 

When the installers are used properly, you don't have to worry about where the files go, since the developers already have put a lot of thoughts into the issue, in order to make sure that everything works as advertised. If you know what you're doing, you can also rearrange your files in a way you like better, but please keep in mind that it's probably harder to maintain and update the files, if needed (i. e. to fix errors or bugs) - you're on your own in this case.

 

And if you're really too lazy to do all these things, donate some money to Simtropolis and get the STEX CD. A second edition is on the way, and Vlakhaas put a great effort into it to create some mega installers which will contain every prop and texture pack that has been created so far. The various BATters and lotmakers spent a lot of time in creating their stuff and making sure that everything works properly, so there's no excuse in not reading the description and the readme file. If you have time to play the game, then you should also have time to download the necessary files and read the documentation.

[Pegasus 2,837]

Date: 12/28/2005 6:11:47 PM Author: Buggi

Can someone drag Pegasus in here?

He really needs to consolidate. Things are even more confusing at his site. OY...

I dare not do a search for 'Volume' or 'Vol' on the STEX either... so many...

Can't process...

quote>

 

 

What you're saying Buggi... from a end user's viewpoint, sounds like a great idea. But from the development side.... its not at all feasible. In effect, what you are suggesting is in order to make things a bit easier for the downloader, that the developer quadruple their work load.

 

Ask any developer what is their least favorite aspect of developing items for download. I'm betting the farm you'll get the same answer from each; Packaging. That's putting the whole thing together in as few files as possible, devising filenames and schemes for optional installation of certain features, etc... documenting the whole thing and creating installation files or archives... and testing them... then uploading it with pretty pictures and more descriptions to hopefully attract the downloader's eye and ward off a private mailbox full of tech support questions.

 

Many items we create take longer to package then they do to create. And packaging just isn't any fun. Indeed, many developers do not release their own lots because of it. They just create a lot or a BAT and allow someone else to package it and upload it.

 

The problem with consolidating is tri-fold. One problem is predicting the future. We usually don't know what's coming next! We create a pack like canals and we can plan on making 3-4 add-ons for it. But then creative users mention how kewl it would be to have bridges for them... and docks and locks... and transitions to anything & everything transitionable. 

 

The second issue is that updates to older items are never seen... and therefore never downloaded. If we go back to an item that has already rotated off the first page of the STEX and add more items to it... no one will ever know because the newly updated item does not get queued back to the top of the list. There's no flag or notice to let users know that its new. And very few user's I'm sure ever say, I think I'll go look at that item  I downloaded a year ago... just to see if its been updated.

 

And this very thing can present a real issue when something new relies on the update to an older item. If players don't get the update, then the new item doesn't work right... and then the developer's PM  and email box get loaded up with tech support messages... and the developer has no time to develop... or motivation to do so.

 

The third thing to consider is that not everyone has high speed internet connections. Some folk need to download in smaller, delictable bites as opposed to scarfing it all at once at the fabulopus STEX buffet.

 

Myself and the BSC and many others include direct links in the item's description to any dependancy files. So its not really much work for the player to locate and download whatever extra files are required. I tend to have far less dependancy files than the BSC... but then I am only a single developer. I often include all that is required into the one download. However, The BSC is a team development effort... and the numerous prop and texture pack dependancies suits that development style... and also enables them to turn out the HUGE volume of lots & add-ons that has kept interest in the game alive.

 

I'll conclude (Yea! Finally!!) with just a couple of thoughts to consider:

 

1. Now is not the time for this kind of revolution. Based on the diminished download counts and comments on the STEX... and the number of developers and other contributors who depart the community regularly... its just bad timing. Attempting to put demands on developers who are largely considering that it might be time to move on... just might be the straw that breaks the llamas's back... so-to-speak.

 

 

2. With the upcoming Start-up Manager, a simple to use tool that allows players to switch from different regions and themes with a simple mouse click, the future of this (version) of the game will be THEMES.

 

We don't really need more stuff for normal game play. We're already inundated with it. What we need to keep the fires buring is a new look and favor. And that can only be accomplished with Themes. Space themes, farming themes, modern worlds, ancient empires... they are all possible. And with the new Start-up Manager... they are now also easily playable.

 

With themes... there will not be any consolidation. If you wait until the whole thing is developed, a year could go by.  Pieces of the theme(s) will be released as they are completed. Players do not want to wait. They want it now... even if its only a taste.

 

 

3.  If you're having problems sorting things out on the STEX, I'd suggest reducing the amount of stuff on the STEX to sort through. Probably half of the items on the STEX haven't been downloaded or even looked at in over a year.  The STEX is obese... and trying to order the fat doesn't make it any less fat. 

[Vlakhaas 13]

I agree with most of the things that Pegasus say and it is true that the game is getting long in the teeth ... it is actually highly extraordinary for a game to retain popularity after 3 years. There is a core group of people here that contributes really well made game assets and then there are a bunch of people throwing stuff at the STEX as if it is a good place to store things.

I have a plugins folder of around 1.5 Gig and my machine is struggling ... where I used to be able to run a city into a million Sims quite rapidly I find it hard now to get over 250k per city. I have tried culling my plugins and just gave up because the stuff I have is all important to me and I am not willing to play without any of them.

 

The ULTRA Packs are in the works but it is a lot of work and I have been ambushed by RL stuff.

 

As Pegasus say ... packaging is a beast ... the recent set of 6x6's I released uses a Prop Pack that was uploaded in January 2005 ... making the Installers and packaging was just too much of a drag and it was only after a lot of requests that I decided to let it go ... only to find that some people moaned about the lack of links in the documents.

[alynnyes 1]

I have been watching this thread, I finally must comment.  First of all, I have DU, Secondly, I had to spend a day or so of searching for and downloading prop packs. ( in my free time of course) . I searched by date. The mega packs are awesome. I love RM's  In September I downloaded the whole BSC farming package. I only had one brown box.  I had to double check the read me and then search the forums. It onlt took a few minutes. I do not understand this pack overload theory.

[Buggi 685]

So much love!

 

It's in the air.

[mteach2000 13]

Is it too much to ask that every item on the STEX be packaged into one small download, say 50mb or less?


A joke.

There are very valid points from both sides here. The way I have always looked at it is that I have the easy part. The work I do on my end is very little compared to what any developer has done for me.

My SC4 files now reside on a hard drive just for this game. Spinning at 10,000 rpm and 2gb RAM keep the game loading pretty fast, all plugins considered. It is conflict(for now) free and has additional Lots/BATs/Maps on it for future entry. Perhaps I could donate this, at some point, to simtrop for some sort of cataloging purpose. Also, I have nearly every map (read halfway decent) EVER submitted. Rendered and ready to share if it was helpful in anyway..

[SamFlash 0]

Pegasus, Vlakhaas, Andreas Roth - To all three of you I would like to say thank you for such a clear, concise and articulate look into the other side of this issue.   It is certainly easy to see why some people create only for themselves. 

As I have reflected on your comments and those by some others I've come to the realization that my main problem in this area is not with searching for the needed dependencies.  I don't mind searching through the STEX as I'm always finding something new and exciting for my game.  And since I have a high speed connection I don't mind downloading the individual files. which actually makes updating easier for me than the mega packs.  My problem is with the different names given to the same files.  One example is with the current CSX Essentials.  A number of the files listed under one name actually have a different name once they're downloaded.  I'm never sure if a file I downloaded is the same as one I already have or is it different.  Just off the BSC part of that list I downloaded 17 files because the names ware different than what I had in my saved files folder.  After downloading and analyzing them, I kept two as I already had the other 15.  That is a lot of time and bandwidth wasted just due to the name.  Let me add that I've never had that problem with any of Pegasus's files but I certainly have with a lot of the BSC & CSX files.  Eventually it gets sorted out but some form of naming scheme that stayed consistent would help.  I'm not sure if that is even possible with so many fingers in the pie, so to speak.  

 

 

[BarbyW 40]

Just as a matter of interest, I am testing a new program to merge files into dats. It is improved from iLive's Files2Dat as it takes folders and sub folders and moves the merged items out to another folder so you don't lose anything. I rolled all the BSC textures into one dat and it was 17MB. Then I did the same with all the BSC Prop Packs. This one is 150MB and obviously not suitable for up/downloading anywhere. My dial up certainly couldn't cope

So consolidate? I don't think it is feasible for distribution.

Barby

[Buggi 685]

I'd like to clarify something. For one, I am not worried about downloading files, my 8meg cable can handle that fine, what has me are the sheer number of things that need to be downloaded to get the most out of your efforts.

You work so much on a project only to have a % unused because people miss the add-ons. To use Pegasus (and SG I guess) as examples.

 

1.) Canal Basics

2.) Canal Bridges

3.) Canal Textures & Props

4.) Canal Other

 

When you add something in one of those categories, update the one file for that category. That way if someone were to come in and ask I would like the canals, what files do I need? The answer would be those four files.

 

The game doesn't care if Prob Z exists in the Canal Textures & Props file AND the Commercial Textures & Props file, if it has the same TGI ID's it'll just use the most recent one anyway.

 

I wonder if 7zip would help us for download sizes. I compressed a 512 meg bmp file to 16 megs using that compression. And it's open source!

 

Anyway, I love what you guys create, I just have a wish it was better organized, and yes, easier for the downloader.

 

-Buggi

[Andreas Roth 629]

Date: 12/29/2005 7:47:28 PM Author: Buggi

You work so much on a project only to have a % unused because people miss the add-ons. To use Pegasus (and SG I guess) as examples.

1.) Canal Basics

2.) Canal Bridges

3.) Canal Textures & Props

4.) Canal Other

When you add something in one of those categories, update the one file for that category. That way if someone were to come in and ask 'I would like the canals, what files do I need?' The answer would be those four files.

The game doesn't care if Prob Z exists in the Canal Textures & Props file AND the Commercial Textures & Props file, if it has the same TGI ID's it'll just use the most recent one anyway.

 

Well, it's true that the variety of packs, series and updates can be confusing, but as others pointed out, that's the natural flow of development. First, someone creates some basic canal pieces, then there is someone who requests bridges, and the next one wants a canal port, and there's another one who thinks that locks and transitions are desperately needed. You could either update the old files with the new stuff, or publish a complete package when the set is ready, but both would waste server resources (bandwidth, HD space). As I said before, complete packages could be a nice feature for subsequent STEX CDs, though.

 

I wonder if 7zip would help us for download sizes. I compressed a 512 meg bmp file to 16 megs using that compression. And it's open source!

 

Yes, I guess 7zip has a better compression than ZIP, and so does RAR. But the fact is: Many people don't know anything about compression formats, and they would be absolutely clueless what to do with those files (and for the developers, this would mean another wagon load of support issues). We chose the usage of installers mainly because of these support issues, since many people don't have any idea what to do with the downloaded files (and of course, they don't read the readme file, even if they are told to do so hundreds of times).

 

And even installers seem to be a mystery to many people, considering quite a few questions that came up with the optional NAM plugins (diagonal streets, roundabouts). They were clearly marked as optional, complete with a short description text, but some folks still seemed to have overlooked them during the installation process and complained afterwards why they couldn't find them in the game. Windows XP has a built-in ZIP function, so unexperienced users don't see the ZIP file at all, and I guess double-clicking on a file to open it shouldn't be a problem for anyone. But everything that is more complicated will cause troubles...

[Buggi 685]

Speaking of which, I have the NAM installed and can't get a round-about...

 

 

Yeah, sometimes I forget how $%&^! some people are. And as such wouldn't it be prudent, considering the $%&^! levels, to minimize the number of things to complain about?