Climate change - Worse than Predicted

[villarule 2]

Check out this article, its pretty scary[:0]

i didnt realise that global warming was this bad, i wish more countries would cut polution (america and china particually)

i just hope that we can change before it is too late

are you scared?

[EAGCE 2]

DON'T STOP IT!!!  I want warmer weather!  I hate the cold!  Bring on Global Warming!

[Djohaal 121]

Date: 11/2/2004 1:30:36 PM
Author: EAGCE

DON'T STOP IT!!! I want warmer weather! I hate the cold! Bring on Global Warming!

quote>
That is the dumbest thing I ever saw somene speak in this forum

[chunkymon24490 6]

While Global Warming would warm the world, it would melt the ice caps, in other words more rain! So do you want more rain? I dont think so.
Global Warming is a big problem, and luckily Europe is trying to do something about it, and if people know to use public transport they can here but in America? No.
Its not an excuse that they don't have the transport, they could esaily afford it- they can manage massive space missions costing loads more than a bus system would, or better railways...etc. It just takes some people to get it into peoples heads there, its the same in China too, even though that is an LEDC, and still developing, not as rich as the US.

[EAGCE 2]

Date:11/2/2004 1:44:25 PM
Author:chunkymon24490

While Global Warming would warm the world, it would melt the ice caps, in other words more rain! So do you want more rain? I dont think so.
Global Warming is a big problem, and luckily Europe is trying to do something about it, and if people know to use public transport they can here but in America? No.
Its not an excuse that they don't have the transport, they could esaily afford it- they can manage massive space missions costing loads more than a bus system would, or better railways...etc. It just takes some people to get it into peoples heads there, its the same in China too, even though that is an LEDC, and still developing, not as rich as the US.

quote>

More Rain!!!!  I love thunderstorms!!! 

[villarule 2]

Date: 11/2/2004 1:50:13 PM
Author: EAGCE

Date:11/2/2004 1:44:25 PM
Author:chunkymon24490

While Global Warming would warm the world, it would melt the ice caps, in other words more rain! So do you want more rain? I dont think so.
Global Warming is a big problem, and luckily Europe is trying to do something about it, and if people know to use public transport they can here but in America? No.
Its not an excuse that they don't have the transport, they could esaily afford it- they can manage massive space missions costing loads more than a bus system would, or better railways...etc. It just takes some people to get it into peoples heads there, its the same in China too, even though that is an LEDC, and still developing, not as rich as the US.

quote>

More Rain!!!! I love thunderstorms!!!

quote>


yes!! i love thousands of people dieing, millions of animals killed and irraversable changes

[ACEfanatic 7]

 

Please tell me you don't believe this crap.

 

The climate cycle of the Earth is such a long process that if scientists believe they can understand it in the relitively short time that humans have existed, they over-estimate their knowledge. 

 

True, I will concede the point that air pollution is bad for the atmosphere, and I will admit that the world is getting warmer.  I will not (and cannot), say with certinty that the former is the cause of the latter.

 

Oh, and those of you who say it's a major, major problem, what do you want us to do?  Stop driving? Ditch electricity?  Take civiliztion back to the stone age?  Or were you just looking for something to $%&^! about?

 

Seriously people, this kind of stuff happens, has happened, and will continue to happen.  If it were to stop, then the climates of the world would be completely shot to hell. 

 

It's called a cycle for a reason, peeps.

 

-ACE

[Thalassicus 33]

The larger concern is actually not global warming, but the effects gradual change will have on threshold systems such as the North Atlantic/Gulf current. We can deal with gradual changes over the next few hundred years, but any significant slowing of the warm oceanic currents could have a major impact on the climate of Europe, Canada, and northern US. This would be similar to the effects of El Nino and La Nina in the Pacific on weather patterns in western North America. There's an interesting article on this in the November issue of Scientific American.

[simmax 0]

Global warming is an issue, but not a major one, as its consequences will be spread out over several decades, if not several centuries. However, this is a very unfair issue, as it is mostly the least-polluting, poorest countries that will suffer from it. Indeed, the climate won't warm up the same everywhere. There are places where it won't warm up, others where it will gain up to 6

[The Terminator 0]

*bites nails Nervousley*

 

so if this is True What will New York be like in Lets say 2101??

 

Please someone Re-assure Me im not going to die!

 

 

*hides under couch*

[Playa del Carmen 0]

Date: 11/2/2004 1:30:36 PM
Author: EAGCE

DON'T STOP IT!!! I want warmer weather! I hate the cold! Bring on Global Warming!

quote>

lol I haven't seen many of your posts but I like you already.

First things first, anybody who takes a basic geology course in college will learn that the earth goes through periods of very profound periods of warming and cooling and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Second, as someone said before, yes, polution is not good and it is harmful and the less the better but what are you willing to give up to curb it? More importantly, what are you willing to force OTHER people to give up to curb it?

Thirdly, there are natural, geological forces at work that produce far more CO2 than we could ever hope to produce. Now are you going to look at erupting volcanos and honestly tell me that those loud, imprecise things belching out Lord only knows what are so finely calibrated that even just this comparitvely miniscule excess of CO2 we've been producing in the last few hundred years (out of a world that's billions of years old and the atmosphere we've known and love millions or multiple thousands of years old) is going to completely destroy the workings of the earth's atmosphere?

And even if you do accept that, I would think you'd just accept global warming and our eventual demise as inevitable and wait to become a passing generation of the earth, not unlike the dinosaurs (who, by the way, did nothing themselves to cause themselves to become extinct.) Think of it as geological spring cleaning.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

Global warming is a reality, but the human population is not to blame.  We may have a very small effect on climates, but there's been a history of climate trends over the years.

 

Europe went through a tiny Ice Age in the 1600s and in the 1000s, Vikings landed in Greenland; the island named because there was actually an abundance of green vegetation.  We're experiencing a normal temperature change, not this drastic change that would wipe out huge chunks of the world.

[vidioman 21]

Pour mercury into the oceans? ABSOLUTELY! Pollute our cities with cancer producing filth? WHY NOT! destroy thousands of species of organisms because of reckless human activity? SOUNDS LIKE FUN! Kill our planet and ourselfs? GREAT!!! Cause irraversable damages? Hey, at least a few people are making money off this.

 

I have a witty comment, but I'll spare you It saddens me that a modern country like America cares more about building up it's military and fighting wars then providing a healthy environment for it's own people.. But, as the French say, C'est la vie!

[villarule 2]

Date: 11/2/2004 4:38:04 PM
Author: vidioman

Pour mercury into the oceans? ABSOLUTELY! Pollute our cities with cancer producing filth? WHY NOT! destroy thousands of species of organisms because of reckless human activity? SOUNDS LIKE FUN! Kill our planet and ourselfs? GREAT!!! Cause irraversable damages? Hey, at least a few people are making money off this.

I have a witty comment, but I'll spare you It saddens me that a 'modern' country like America cares more about building up it's military and fighting wars then providing a healthy environment for it's own people.. But, as the French say, 'C'est la vie!'

quote>

fully aggree with you mate
nicely put

[Thalassicus 33]

Date: 11/2/2004 4:38:04 PM
Author: vidioman

I have a witty comment, but I'll spare you It saddens me that a 'modern' country like America cares more about building up it's military and fighting wars then providing a healthy environment for it's own people.. But, as the French say, 'C'est la vie!'

quote>
Remember it's not the country, it's the administration. I voted for the candidate that had 500,000 more votes at the end of the last election (and lost)

[ACEfanatic 7]

Date:11/2/2004 4:38:04 PM
Author:vidioman

Pour mercury into the oceans? ABSOLUTELY! Pollute our cities with cancer producing filth? WHY NOT! destroy thousands of species of organisms because of reckless human activity? SOUNDS LIKE FUN! Kill our planet and ourselfs? GREAT!!! Cause irraversable damages? Hey, at least a few people are making money off this.

 

I have a witty comment, but I'll spare you It saddens me that a 'modern' country like America cares more about building up it's military and fighting wars then providing a healthy environment for it's own people.. But, as the French say, 'C'est la vie!'

quote>

Oh, and I suppose you Canadians use 100% clean power plants?  And don't use steel?  And don't have any chemical plants?  Oh, and of course none of you have ever driven a car.

I think that shows my point.

Don't blame the US for everything, Vid.

-ACE

BTW: That comment about our military:  I don't see Canada saving anyone's ass.

[vidioman 21]

Date:11/2/2004 8:16:20 PM
Author:ACEfanatic

Date:11/2/2004 4:38:04 PM
Author:vidioman

Pour mercury into the oceans? ABSOLUTELY! Pollute our cities with cancer producing filth? WHY NOT! destroy thousands of species of organisms because of reckless human activity? SOUNDS LIKE FUN! Kill our planet and ourselfs? GREAT!!! Cause irraversable damages? Hey, at least a few people are making money off this.

 

I have a witty comment, but I'll spare you It saddens me that a 'modern' country like America cares more about building up it's military and fighting wars then providing a healthy environment for it's own people.. But, as the French say, 'C'est la vie!'

quote>

Oh, and I suppose you Canadians use 100% clean power plants?  And don't use steel?  And don't have any chemical plants?  Oh, and of course none of you have ever driven a car.

I think that shows my point.

Don't blame the US for everything, Vid.

-ACE

BTW: That comment about our military:  I don't see Canada saving anyone's ass.

quote>

Well, Canada has taken into the Kyoto Accord, it's a start. We aren't heavy polluters like the US. Ther are other countries tha tpollute. cnada does more than it's share as well, but we are working on it. China, a developing country, has the fact that it's developing to it's defence to help justify it's high pollution for now. In a couple decades, they won't have that anymore. america, however, being the best nation on earth you would think they were doing something a little bigger.

And what country is it that created peace keeping? If Canda's in danger, we can save ourselves. We've done it several times before! remember, in the only major battle between the two countries, look who won

[ACEfanatic 7]

Oh, but we're not allowed to fix it.

 

See, that would get rid of low-income, crappy jobs.

 

I don't agree with it, but the fact is we're stuck till people start getting educations.  Anyway, look at the vast majority of Asia, Europe, and Africa.  Europe especially.  The UK's been around a lot longer, and pollutes a lot more considering it's land area.

 

The US is not the seed of evil you think it is.  Sure, we may not be perfect, but if you see some county that is, give me a call, 'cause Hell's getting colder.

 

Returning to the main point, even if we do have a great impact on polution, it has little effect on climate.  So, in the terms of this topic, global warming is NOT the US's fault.  It's no one's fault.  And dammit, if you want to go pin it on someone, blame Nature!

 

-ACE

[iMacWin95 0]

*yells to calm everyone down*

 

1. No, we're not going to die.

2. Yes, this is a major issue.

3. No, we're not going to die.

4. Yes, this is a major issue.

 

(Sorry in advance if I'm incoherent; I'm watching election results)

 

Yes, CO₂ levels are on the rise, yes, temperatures are on the rise, but how much does that matter?

 

It is certain that at least part of that rise is due to human interaction. But as so many people have pointed out, we'd have to give up so much stuff to do that, and this is also partly natural.

 

Some facts:
1. It is often roughly the same expense to clean out the first 50% of a pollutant than it is to clean the next 25%.

2. Trees can only absorb carbon dioxide for two years before the lack of nutrients get them. Often, that carbon goes back into the year in only three years (if used in leaves)

 

Yes, the US is a big part of the cause. Why? We use big pollutants: (NOTE: FOLLOWING ARE GENERALIZED STEROTYPES. I AM NOT SINGLING OUT ANYBODY)

I've seen, just by riding the bus, how many people sit in cars for ten-twenty minutes waiting for the bus - and it's only 30-50 degrees out!!!! Could you wait outside, like I used to have to do (I get driven to school by my sister... she has mentorship; she has to drve)?

 

Yes, other countries are also responsible. But we cause lots of problems, and we do little to fix them. So, US (myself included), you're going to carry the brunt of the blame until we do something about it.

[The Evil Octopus Man 25]

Date:11/2/2004 8:22:02 PM
Author:vidioman

Date:11/2/2004 8:16:20 PM
Author:ACEfanatic

Date:11/2/2004 4:38:04 PM
Author:vidioman

Pour mercury into the oceans? ABSOLUTELY! Pollute our cities with cancer producing filth? WHY NOT! destroy thousands of species of organisms because of reckless human activity? SOUNDS LIKE FUN! Kill our planet and ourselfs? GREAT!!! Cause irraversable damages? Hey, at least a few people are making money off this.

 

I have a witty comment, but I'll spare you It saddens me that a 'modern' country like America cares more about building up it's military and fighting wars then providing a healthy environment for it's own people.. But, as the French say, 'C'est la vie!'

quote>

Oh, and I suppose you Canadians use 100% clean power plants?  And don't use steel?  And don't have any chemical plants?  Oh, and of course none of you have ever driven a car.

I think that shows my point.

Don't blame the US for everything, Vid.

-ACE

BTW: That comment about our military:  I don't see Canada saving anyone's ass.

quote>

Well, Canada has taken into the Kyoto Accord, it's a start. We aren't heavy polluters like the US. Ther are other countries tha tpollute. cnada does more than it's share as well, but we are working on it. China, a developing country, has the fact that it's developing to it's defence to help justify it's high pollution for now. In a couple decades, they won't have that anymore. america, however, being the 'best nation on earth' you would think they were doing something a little bigger.

And what country is it that created peace keeping? If Canda's in danger, we can save ourselves. We've done it several times before! remember, in the only major battle between the two countries, look who won

quote>

The reason canada pollutes less than the US is because California has more people than Canada.  And if you're refering to the War of 1812, that was almost 200 years ago when the US was still struggling to get the British compleatly off of our land.

I don't really care about global warming.  By 2060 I'm planning on being retired, and by 2100 I'm planning on being dead.  So, keeping that in mind, I just can't bring myself to care about global warming. Plus, more rain sounds like fun!

[vidioman 21]

well, it happens. we ar ejust making it go faster. we won't see any significant change until 2050 anyway, and it will be so gadual we won't really notice it. but expect more hurricanes and stuff. If you want to piss off and ruin the earths climate, go ahead, but when you get sick from it, don't come crawling to us!

[Mexicanboy13r 12]

But one thing the weather is going to be deadly.

[Thalassicus 33]

Politics aside, here's an overview of the concern over global warming, compared to the much greater concern specifically for the Atlantic current.

Everyone knows about the global shifts in climate that are going to occur over the next century or two, most everyone also assumes that we'll find a way to deal with the gradual changes as they occur worldwide (which is probably true). One example is the doom-and-gloom threats of increased sea levels, which could easily be handled with the levy systems like those in New Orleans (which is already several meters below sea level), built over the course of the next ten decades. We can deal with that. Many of the other issues could also be handled with current and future development of various technologies.


The big concern in climate and agriculture, however, is the effects of warming weather on the Atlantic current. Currently, warm, salty water travelling northwards along the surface becomes denser as it cools near Greenland and Iceland, and sinks to the bottom to travel back south. As warming weather increases the freshwater runoff from Greenland's ice cap, however, it will dilute the denser salty currents. If surface waters don't become dense enough to sink at the normal rate, the current will slow, reaching less far northwards and cooling the region.

The main regions that will be affected are the Eastern US, Europe, and (as the jet stream carries the winds across the Mediterranean) North Africa and India. The last two are the largest concern, as they have a population heavily dependent on the monsoon seasons for farming and agriculture. If rainfall declines by any significant amount over the course of a decade (even a few inches monthly), it is unlikely that they will be able to cope quickly enough to support the growing population.


The problem is not when this will happen, it's pretty much a given that this will eventually occur as the climate warms over the next century (although exactly when is hard to determine). The problem is that once the density threshold is crossed, the slowing process will occur over only a decade or two, and right now the main regions of the world that will be affected just aren't capable of handling the change. India is having enough hardship as it is between overpopulation and the threat of the nuclear war with Pakistan, and much of East Africa is suffering from unstable governments.

(Warning: politics ahead )

This is the main reason the current administration (Bush) denies that global warming is an issue. Industrialized nations are the primary contributer to the warming effect, but most people don't want to have to provide economic support to nations that will recieve the largest impact from it.

The easiest way to avoid this support is to deny the problem exists at all, that it's out of our control and a natural cause unaffected by humans. It's convienient, but when you combine increasing overpopulation, potential for a rapid climate decline, and two heavily armed religious countries stocked to the tip with nuclear weapons, it really doesn't paint a pretty picture.

Basically you have two choices. Do you want to send funding for your own families and country to other nations that will be feeling the effects of climate change, or do you want to avoid the 50-100 billion dollar budget necessary to do so? The current administration strongly supports personal, emotional, and sentimental viewpoints (such as family values, abortion, marriage, and homeland security), which is the reason the topic of global warming has been intentionally avoided: it would result in a major tax burden. The administration just issued a multi-billion dollar tax cut to the top 1% wealthiest citizens (and somewhat of a cut to normal middle-class people), it's unlikely they'll turn around and increase taxes to support other natio

[hk5 0]

There are some scientists who are saying that sure we are in the middle of global warming, but 10,000 years is a blink of an eye in geologic terms. The earth just came out of the Ice Age and is warming normally, and we're just making it go faster with our polluting the atmosphere with CO₂ gas. That's just nature and we're just accellerating the process.

[Playa del Carmen 0]

Date: 11/2/2004 4:38:04 PM
Author: vidioman

Pour mercury into the oceans? ABSOLUTELY! Pollute our cities with cancer producing filth? WHY NOT! destroy thousands of species of organisms because of reckless human activity? SOUNDS LIKE FUN! Kill our planet and ourselfs? GREAT!!! Cause irraversable damages? Hey, at least a few people are making money off this.

I have a witty comment, but I'll spare you It saddens me that a 'modern' country like America cares more about building up it's military and fighting wars then providing a healthy environment for it's own people.. But, as the French say, 'C'est la vie!'

quote>


That's funny, because I thought Canada was an importer of oil for the US and a supply of the US' uranium, making them a part of the problem the US is creating. This is why Canada can get away with having an impotent military- we'd have to defend you if you were attacked because you're useful in some ways to us.

And like I said before, what are you giving up to save the western hemisphere? What are you going to force others to give up?

Hey, at least a few people are making money off this.

No, at least a lot of people are making their livlihood by being employed by these industries. I don't like the polluting industires any more than you do, but you want change quicker than is possible without pulling an economic rug out from under the American people.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I think that makeing climatic predictions is a bit far fetched.

 

Remember the huge hole in the ozone layer that had every one paniced?

And last year it closed itself in a few days?

That had those meteorologist steping and fetching to explain what happened there

[EAGCE 2]

Maybe with sea levels rising, I'll finally get that beach-front house.

[vidioman 21]

Date: 11/2/2004 10:17:24 PM
Author: Playa del Carmen

Date: 11/2/2004 4:38:04 PM
Author: vidioman

Pour mercury into the oceans? ABSOLUTELY! Pollute our cities with cancer producing filth? WHY NOT! destroy thousands of species of organisms because of reckless human activity? SOUNDS LIKE FUN! Kill our planet and ourselfs? GREAT!!! Cause irraversable damages? Hey, at least a few people are making money off this.

I have a witty comment, but I'll spare you It saddens me that a 'modern' country like America cares more about building up it's military and fighting wars then providing a healthy environment for it's own people.. But, as the French say, 'C'est la vie!'

quote>


That's funny, because I thought Canada was an importer of oil for the US and a supply of the US' uranium, making them a part of the problem the US is creating. This is why Canada can get away with having an impotent military- we'd have to defend you if you were attacked because you're useful in some ways to us.

And like I said before, what are you giving up to save the western hemisphere? What are you going to force others to give up?

'Hey, at least a few people are making money off this.'

No, at least a lot of people are making their livlihood by being employed by these industries. I don't like the polluting industires any more than you do, but you want change quicker than is possible without pulling an economic rug out from under the American people.

quote>

Canada has the capacity to create WMDs. We don't need to, since we didn't screw up and make the world hate usl. But if we need to, we can.. We can pollute more than you if we want, but we decided not to. Keep polluting than. Go ahead. It's your country. I don't care if it's polluted or not. Aparently, I'm not allowed to

[Playa del Carmen 0]

Date: 11/3/2004 12:28:50 PM
Author: vidioman

Date: 11/2/2004 10:17:24 PM
Author: Playa del Carmen

Date: 11/2/2004 4:38:04 PM
Author: vidioman

Pour mercury into the oceans? ABSOLUTELY! Pollute our cities with cancer producing filth? WHY NOT! destroy thousands of species of organisms because of reckless human activity? SOUNDS LIKE FUN! Kill our planet and ourselfs? GREAT!!! Cause irraversable damages? Hey, at least a few people are making money off this.

I have a witty comment, but I'll spare you It saddens me that a 'modern' country like America cares more about building up it's military and fighting wars then providing a healthy environment for it's own people.. But, as the French say, 'C'est la vie!'

quote>


That's funny, because I thought Canada was an importer of oil for the US and a supply of the US' uranium, making them a part of the problem the US is creating. This is why Canada can get away with having an impotent military- we'd have to defend you if you were attacked because you're useful in some ways to us.

And like I said before, what are you giving up to save the western hemisphere? What are you going to force others to give up?

'Hey, at least a few people are making money off this.'

No, at least a lot of people are making their livlihood by being employed by these industries. I don't like the polluting industires any more than you do, but you want change quicker than is possible without pulling an economic rug out from under the American people.

quote>

Canada has the capacity to create WMDs. We don't need to, since we didn't screw up and make the world hate usl. But if we need to, we can.. We can pollute more than you if we want, but we decided not to. Keep polluting than. Go ahead. It's your country. I don't care if it's polluted or not. Aparently, I'm not allowed to

quote>


Well you keep telling yourself that. But keep in mind, your Canadian chauvanism is just as attractive as American chauvanism.

[villarule 2]

Some people just dont care do they....