Bus spam on diagonal streets

[CT14 2,486]

Anyone else have the problem of endless busses streaming out of diagonal streets? I don't have any bus stops anywhere near when this happens. My bus traffic graph also shows 0.

For a while I thought this was related to specific lots (NAM curve fillers, Gridbusters etc), but examining for exemplars revealed nada. The common thread seems to be diagonal streets in all cases. However I can also reproduce it easily by plopping PEG Rural Alleys next to streets.

[Lot Creator 304]

Sounds there's a lot somewhere spawning the buses around those diagonal paths. From seeing the photo, it also seems that the bus is being spawned under the streets, suggesting that there's something else at work. While I suspect the PEG rural alleys may be at fault, check for landmarks, custom transportation things, or for anything in the path of the bus parade which has a bus Zot in its description when you look at the properties. Some landmarks have secretly installed subways and bus stations, and this might as well be something related to it.

If all fails, you could try to replace the maxis bus with something else... although I am pretty sure it's something to do with a lot or something like that.

[CT14 2,486]

@Lot Creator Thanks very much for the brain dump, you pointed out something I hadn't noticed: the bus automata are under the street.

This makes me think of... CAN-AM, which uses bus automata mechanisms to display canal traffic ...that will be the next thing I look into.

[Lot Creator 304]

@CT14Glad I could help.

[CT14 2,486]

Well, well... removing the CAN-AM folder and its two .dat files in NAM restored the buses to street level. I also found a reference to "underwater buses" here:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7662.msg456365#msg456365

But, the buses are still spawning. It is a mystery!

[rsc204 21,836]

CAN-AM automata is a trick whereby Buses have a Ferry boat model that is "attached" so that it floats over the buses which are hidden. This trick is pulled off because the pathing for CAN-AM pieces is set below ground low enough to hide the buses. CAN-AM must use the Bus Automata workaround because there is no way we know of yet to add new automata to the game for types that didn't already exist.

The fault is not caused by the CAN-AM plugin being installed, rather that a TE lot is somehow triggering buses that work the same way CAN-AM automata does. If you have no plans to use the CAN-AM, then removing it isn't an issue, but otherwise you should restore those files and look for the true cause. Almost certainly this will be a lot in the Misc Transit menu and have transport properties it's not supposed to.

Simply remove one lot at a time (bulldoze) in the affected area and see when the buses stop spawning, then you have your culprit.

[CT14 2,486]

I bulldozed Morgenkirk's Organworks (2x8) and the buses all vanished like a switch was flipped. The same was not true for the Paeng Dirt Garage lot which didn't affect bus display at all.

I replaced it with a new plop of the same Morgenkirk's lot and the buses have not come back in that spot yet.

Can't see any suspicious exemplars in that lot, of course.

And here's another location where it's happening. This time on a small block with a diagonal road involved.

This time, bulldozing (specifically dezoning) the growable Diagonal Tenements visible center left stopped the buses.

Here's a good example of the PEG rural alleys with buses everywhere.

• There don't seem to be diagonal roads here (although I seem to remember that diagonal roads are really lots of 90 degree bends in the traffic simulator...)
• The alleys do have a Transit Switch Point exemplar. I don't know how that compares to just "Transit Enabling" the lot... but that couldn't explain the buses on the other side of town anyway, right?
• The alleys also have OccupantGroups like "StrikableTransit" "MiscTransit" "TollBooth".
• All buses disappear when 3/4 of the alleys in the shot above are bulldozed.
• The fourth alley does not seem to spawn buses when it is alone.
• Replacing a second alley brings the bus spam back.
• It doesn't matter which spot you place the alley in, any position does the same thing.

I'm going to start nuking exemplars in these alleys and retesting.

Updates

 

The Rural alleys have a Transit Switch Traffic Capacity of 4800. That seems like a high capacity.

They also have sneaky effects not mentioned in the Peg Alley Kit readme: Inherited exemplars of Civic Building/Park Effect (Magnitude 30 radius 4, this magnitude is in line with vanilla parks) and a built in Mayor Rating Effect (magnitude 2 radius 220). That seems like a high radius.

[rsc204 21,836]

4 hours ago, CT14 said:

The Rural alleys have a Transit Switch Traffic Capacity of 4800. That seems like a high capacity.

Actually that's really low, you'd be better off near 20,000 minimum, perhaps 10,000 for streets. They should also have a proper TSEC value, i.e. not 0.

4 hours ago, CT14 said:

They also have sneaky effects not mentioned in the Peg Alley Kit readme: Inherited exemplars of Civic Building/Park Effect (Magnitude 30 radius 4, this magnitude is in line with vanilla parks) and a built in Mayor Rating Effect (magnitude 2 radius 220). That seems like a high radius.

That's probably because like all content made in the early days, an existing exemplar was copied to create it. Thus it inherits all the properties of the lot it was made from, which was most likely one of said parks. Personally I'd consider making completely neutral lots anew for them. You can simply copy/paste all the lot objects if you are using PIM-X from the old lot onto your new one, so visually they will be identical.

The thing is, why do such lots need to be TE'd in the first place? I don't understand this need for everything to have traffic running through it. Much better to use one of the various tricks, such as dragging a T-Intersection before placing the lot. Then removing the tile after the intersection with the RHW Disconnecter to create a fake street/road etc connection to the lots when placed. The other ridiculously simple solution is just to use the SAM-3 streets instead, that way they are properly functional. Remember too that SAM didn't exist when these were made, so it wouldn't have been possible to have different street textures.

4 hours ago, CT14 said:

I bulldozed Morgenkirk's Organworks (2x8) and the buses all vanished like a switch was flipped. The same was not true for the Paeng Dirt Garage lot which didn't affect bus display at all.

It could be that the lot itself isn't the one creating the problem, but that's where the problem appeared and got stuck in a loop. Perhaps a badly modded transit station is at fault here, but the spawn point occurs elsewhere. Maybe worth removing any custom bus stops you have (RTMT doesn't apply, it's VERY well tested and proven). Do make sure you've the latest v3.6 and that it's correctly replaced the properties from the 3.5 install it's intended to patch.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

5 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I don't understand this need for everything to have traffic running through it.

Maybe people want to allow pedestrians to walk through the parks and plazas?

5 hours ago, rsc204 said:

RTMT... make sure you've the latest v3.6

How can one tell?

[rsc204 21,836]

8 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Maybe people want to allow pedestrians to walk through the parks and plazas?

That may be the case, but TE lots simply do not work this way, so that's not the solution to the problem. Not to mention there is a limitation of TE lots, you can't place two together, so for any sort of modular set, you can't possibly keep an uninterrupted path. Sure SC4Fix does remove the limitation of placing multiple TE lots next to each other. But it doesn't make them work, because a TE switch must work as Network --> Lot or Lot --> Network. Lot --> Lot pathing simply can not work.

From a visual perspective, you can put animated sims upon lots, simulating them walking through them. In fact pretty much everything in this regard can be done visually, it's just that none of them are functional. The only real functional solution is the NAM pedmalls, which are a proper network. You could make park paths using Puzzle Pieces or some sort of Flex Network like a SAM set.

8 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

How can one tell?

Look at the files you used to install it. The filenames should clearly show the version number. The fact you were manually installing files tells me it's probably 3.6, since the base 3.5 version has an installer.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

The fact you were manually installing files tells me it's probably 3.6, since the base 3.5 version has an installer.

My zip file has a 350 in the name but no installer inside (I downloaded it in 2013, perhaps before the installer was added). I've downloaded 3.6, but I should probably delete the handful of stops I built from the older version before I replace any DAT files.

I apologize for side-tracking the bus spam mystery. I guess we still haven't fingered the culprit. Was it the PEG Alleys?