The SimTropolis House of Worship

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[DOXXP29 5]

You're right, Barbarossa. A true atheist does disbelieve in any god. I was describing an atheist who might one day wake up and have a crisis of faith (or lack thereof) and think about changing his atheistic ideology. (Happens quite often according to many converts.) If there actually WAS only one, true real god, he wouldn't have to select from the many makes and models available because there would only be ONE religion in which to believe and not MANY DIFFERENT religions making the same claim that THEIR'S was the one true god. So instead of shopping around and selecting from the myriad theologies being hawked by the hucksters trying to get him to buy into one specific brand and devote his mind, body, soul and money to that brand, he comes to his senses and realizes that he was right all along. Since everyone CANNOT agree on which one is the true, real god and no one can prove the existence of that one true god, he sees he was correct in his atheistic views. If one true god really DID exist, everybody would agree on the same thing. Since everyone obviously cannot agree and nobody is capable of proving the existence of ANY god out of the many that are available to be believed in, he concludes that god obviously must not exist.

And you're also correct in stating that a true atheist already has something to believe in, which is the non-existance of a god. The "wayward souls" would probably more accurately be defined as agnostics.

[Explodingsims 3]

Originally posted by: jmusshorn

Date: 12/30/2005 5:21:30 PM

Author: Joesocwork

The Community is quite diverse and even the most devout atheists and most devout Christians/Muslims/Jews/etc. aren't going to come to 100% agreement on everything; and that should be fine.

I couldn't agree with you more.

And seriously, I think that something should be said to the younger participants in this thread (I know that I'm young as well, but listen): Most of us in this thread are 14-18 years old; an age group that, while occasionally under a false-impression that they are old and wise, are still young. We lack the life experience and wisdom, as well as the seniority to speak as if we're %100 correct about anything, especially when it comes to religion.

My point is that we're still young. Rather than trying to prove why we're right about everything, I think that we should heed the wisdom that some of the older participants in this discussion have. They've been on this earth longer; they understand more than we do. We should respect and really ponder what they have to say.

If everyone can do that, we just might come out of this a little (or a lot) wiser.

Happy New Year

~Jamie~quote>

 

I can't agree with you on this one. Yes, older ones will have more info, but thats no to say that the younger generations can't provide good insight.

Anyway, I am a Christian(and Proud of It) and would have to say that I find that there's too much order in the world for it to happen by chance. How would the Earth be positioned at a perfect angle to sustain life by channce?

Also the Big Bang and Evolution are a THEROY

Theroy is not a Law, it is a belief

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Explodingsims 3]

I happen to know the defination of THEORY, a principle that is held as being true until other wise proved false, so there is a chance that it could be false.

And no, just because someone is young it does not mean that they cannot provide good insight into a religous idea, albiet they may be a tad bit stubborn about it.

But before I start a big contriversy, i want to drop this here

[BillyBob360 0]

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, also known as Mormons. We ARE Christians, contrary to what others might think.

[Amerikaner 42]

err billybob360...i dont really mean to be a *****....but could you explain how your a christian religion??

i think religion itself was created to keep the peoples of ancient cultures under power, stating that if you do anything bad that you go to hell, as well it was a way to unify the country, and a reason to go to war. really for me that makes the most sense...i mean what about the dinosaurs?? where the hell are they in the bible if man was created on like what the 6th day??...now im not saying im atheist...i belive that something is out there like DOXXP29 but not really any god that's worshiped on this planet...i mean maybe its god, he is worshiped by the worlds three major religions Muslims, Jews, Christians as far as i can tell ( well i know christians and Jews are the same...allah is god in respectful terms)

thats my 2c

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: Amerikaner err billybob360...i dont really mean to be a *****....but could you explain how your a christian religion??

quote>

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, also known as Mormons. We ARE Christians, contrary to what others might think.quote>

They believe in the Jesus, that makes them Christian. They're just a fancy new offshoot, like the Jehovah's witnesses. They're like the old Christians, except with newer shinier bibles.

Oh and polygamy. Can't forget the polygamy.

[ephorex_77 0]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa Deever said:

C'mon dude, no sniping. Respect.quote>

Please explain your nonsensical statement. What is sniping? Also, have no you appreciation for Homeandaway's sarcasm? I think not. To me, Homaeandway was pointing out futile prayers, and I am pointing out prayers are not answered. And the "respect" comment... you sound like an idiot rapper.

jglei701 said:

Broad generalizations AND insults in the same simple statement! quote>

I'm sorry, but your comment makes no sense. So you think Catholicism isn't Christian? Last time I checked, it was the LARGEST Christian denomination on the planet. Generalizations aside, Catholicism is Christian. Ask a Catholic. And who, precisely, did I insult? People who don't think Catholism is Christian. People who think this deserve an insult because they are living in a cave.

jglei701 said:

The protestant movement was not intended to divulge from the Catholic church, it was merely meant to reform (thus the term "Reformation." quote>

But it did, now didn't it? the Catholic Church reformed, but Protestantism lingers today. What is your point?

jglei701 said:

Indulgences were the original faith? History doesn't lie; the Catholic church in the middle ages wasn't your mother's Catholic church... it was corrupt and would have put the Christian church back indefinately, if not for Luther. quote>

My mother isn't Catholic, FYI. If you haven't figured it out by now, I don't believe any of this nonsense. I have no reason to defend Catholicism because I think it is all bunk. Your comment only reinforces me. Religions should not change. Catholicism has changed and Protestantism has mutated. There are more sects for Protestantism than there were for ancient Greek theology. Keep on praising Luther all you want. It does not change the intent of my post.

jglei701 said:

Have you ever read the Bible?

Whether it's the Bible that the Protestant Church uses or the one the Catholic Church's, these really differ only in the addition of the Appocryphal books (by definition, books of "questionable origin"). quote>

Yes, I have. Your keyword for the day is "differ".

jglei701 said:

Again, read history. Read Acts, then read the history of the Catholic church in the Dark ages. It's so different, it's like a different religion. quote>

Again, what is your point? A faith should not change. It HAS changed, I have no argument with that.

jglei701 said:

Not sure what you mean about the "gay bit..." but the Apostle Paul writes that a woman should not teach a man in I Timothy 2:12. quote>

Perhaps you don't read the news? Have you been completely in the dark regarding Protestant movements to ordain homosexuals and women? Look at the Episcopals for an example. From the temper of your posts, you are definitely Christian, so I would think you pay attention to things like this. Also, by your little Bible quote there, I assume you are sexist? Women aren't as good as men because some guy said so more than 2000 years ago?

jglei701 said:

I'm wondering what the point of the comment was, though... it seems that you simply want to insult Christianity, but it seems like much of what you say is based on opinion, not fact.quote>

Facts have little, if anything, to do with religion. Of course it is my opinion.

Barbarossaquote>

 

Amazing how an agnostic/atheist (as I gather from your posts) can defend the Catholic Church so much better than most people. =)

Reading through your post, especially the part about the fact that there are still Protestants despite the Church having reformed, reminds of me of the not-insignificant time I spent here labouring over Catholic apologetics quite a while ago as it was a point I believe I made as well. 

Again, what is your point? A faith should not change. It HAS changed, I have no argument with that. quote>

Succintly and presciently put. Protestant churches (and too many Catholic churches eager to jump on the "progressive" bandwagon) morph and change and evolve so much that they have an inch of depth left in them; all that remains is generally a "feel-good" 'i can do wateva i like and neva get punished coz Jesus loves me no matter wat' sentiment, which is frighteningly false.

Unfortunately, I'll have to go jglei on the ordination of women. Women priests should be an idea relegated permanently somewhere else (perhaps some other more modern church, as is happening at the moment??).

And yes, I find the idea of the amorphous Protestant body rather...interesting. You would have thought that a certain measure of stabilty and adherence to never-faded Truths would be in order, given that the question being discussed concerns eternal bliss or damnation. Unfortunately, they're rather happy to change their position and move wheresoever the wind blows, which is also (even more unfortunately) what the Catholic Church seems to be trying to emulate.

Truth doesn't change. Only man's petty whims and his view of how God should be, not how He truly is.

[Meg 368]

The part I don’t understand is the assumption that human understanding of any subject was complete and accurate centuries ago.  Over the course of history, human understanding of most subjects has expanded considerably.

Pick any "hard science" subject – chemistry, biology, physics, etc – and few people would argue that our understanding of them is complete and accurate now, much less centuries ago.

The periodic table of elements, for instance, has grown since I was in school.  The elements themselves didn’t change; we just understand them better.  I was taught there were only three states of matter.  These days, kids are taught there are four. My parents were taught you can’t split an atom.  These days, we all know better. Our knowledge is expanding.

Pick any "soft" subject that involves multiple points of view and interpretation – history, literature, psychology, sociology, economics, etc – and our knowledge becomes less concrete but it is still growing.

Why take one topic and assume that, centuries ago, human beings understood all there is to understand about it?  I believe our understanding of everything has expanded over the centuries.  Why should our understanding of God and religion be different?

To put it another way, I'm not saying God has changed.  I'm saying that, centuries ago, our understanding of everything, including God, was not complete.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa 

Regarding the elements, just keep in mind that most, if not all, of the new additions to the periodic table are either a) recently discovered, or b) are man-made, and usually radioactive. quote>

I'm not sure I'm following your point here.

As for states of matter... yes, I agree, we have learned a lot. It used to be that plasma was considered a gas, but it has only been through advances in science that we have come to realize that plasma behaves differently and it really is on a level of its own. quote>

Yes, that is what I mean; we have expanded our knowledge, awareness, and understanding.

On the atom, I am surprised your parents were taught this, but I have no idea about your age.quote>

 

Currently, my mom is 87 and my dad is 82.   They believe the science education they received was probably not the best available at the time because they schools they attended had emphasis on other things.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa 

I'm not sure I'm following your point here.quote>

LOL, after re-reading your post, I am not sure I what my point was, either! quote>

 

LOL, some days are like that  

[City2TheMax 3]

I think it's very sad how a majority of Americans (feel free to disagree) have this bias on Muslims, saying that Muslims are terrorists and that they should be annihilated. I, of course, disagree with this opinion.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: City2TheMax 

I think it's very sad how a majority of Americans (feel free to disagree) have this bias on Muslims, saying that Muslims are terrorists and that they should be annihilated. I, of course, disagree with this opinion.quote>

 

Who says it's the majority of Americans?  Where are you hanging out?  There are some who feel that way but it's no where near the majority. 

[JanYpe 17]

Of course there is a bias against some Muslims, one that isn't confined to the USA at all. There is a bias against the fatwa issuing, journalist beheading, nightclub bombing, flying into a frenzy over stupid cartoons, innocent public killing, subset of Muslims. And anyone would have to be a damned fool not to have a bias against those who would preach through fear and intimidation, in the name of whatever god they're keen on.

[Zelgadis 638]

There is a definite bias and that point is hammered home to me rather often in the line of work I do. If I lived by the news and media alone, I might have a different opinion. But I sometimes get students from Saudi Arabia and every one I've had have been some of the nicest people I have ever met, not to mention some of my best students. And I've had all types, from the university students hoping to buff up their English levels to the Saudi woman who was living in Pennsylvania while her husband got a Master's Degree. She owned a beauty parlor in Jeddah. Wonderful, kind person she was.

But the way Saudis are portrayed in the media, whether inadvertently or not, is quite negative. So I feel quite lucky that I often get to meet them and get to know them better.

ISF

[City2TheMax 3]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: City2TheMax 

I think it's very sad how a majority of Americans (feel free to disagree) have this bias on Muslims, saying that Muslims are terrorists and that they should be annihilated. I, of course, disagree with this opinion.quote>

 

Who says it's the majority of Americans?  Where are you hanging out?  There are some who feel that way but it's no where near the majority. quote>

You're right, it might not be the majority, but I see a general bias throughout the US. You can sort of feel it. The media portrays the image that Muslims are the people that are fighting against the US, that Muslims are terrorists,etc. Part of that bias does come from extremist Muslims who do want to get rid of the US (think Osama). The problem is many people buy into that belief. They think it's all Muslims, not just insurgents that are fighting against them, and that all other Muslims are terrorists.

[Duke87 1,070]

Well, the real issue is not media coverage or anything, but rather that Arab=terrorist has become a common stereotype in America. It's not just the media to blame for that but society's own cowardice, as well. It's human nature to fear that which is unfamiliar to us. It's the nature of most animals, too. After all, curiosity can be deadly, so the more cautious beings survive. It's an evolutionary adaptation. The trouble is that evolution never foresaw the idea of civilization, so a lot of things which were quite adaptive traits for cavemen and further back now do more harm than good. It's why things like racism and prejudice are so easy to fall into. It's people making generalizations. After all, you're not likely to hear to many stories about Arabs being heroes (even though they must exist), the stories you hear are about Arabs being violent to each other and to the western world. So it's no wonder people get biased against them. This is yet another case of the actions of a few ruining the reputation of the whole.

It should not be forgotten, after all, that Islam, like most religions, generally condemns violence.

[Meg 368]

If the statement is "The majority of Americans have a bias against extremist Muslims", I would agree that is true.  

There are extremists, both Muslims and otherwise, who want to reshape the world to suit their narrow views.   Most of us would rather they didn't do that.

[City2TheMax 3]

What I'm saying is that alot of Americans see all Muslims as extremists.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: City2TheMax What I'm saying is that alot of Americans see all Muslims as extremists.quote>

I wouldn't necessarily agree to that.  At least one girl in a class of mine is Muslim, and the odds of her strapping bombs to herself or helping others get them or anything of that nature is about the same as me going psycho and turning into a serial killer after lunch today.  I'm pretty confident that one of my instructors is also Muslim, and she's without a shadow of a doubt one of the most helpful people I've met.

[Joesocwork 4]

Bigotry, paranoia, and ruthless ambition can be found in any culture and any demographic w/out being indicative of any culture or demographic. Politics and religion often make for a handy tool to propagate them, but again they are just tools for anyone who are guided by their bigotry, paranoia, or ambition and would find whatever mechanism is available anyway.

[City2TheMax 3]

Voar Tok, you're missing the point. I am NOT saying that all Muslims are extremists. I am saying that alot of Americans see most, if not all, Muslims as extremists. There's a large group of Americans who are plain ignorant about Muslims and the Islam, and what they see in the media is what they believe. The media shows primarily extremist Muslims such as Osama and religous groups (Sunnis for example), and the destruction they cause. This means that alot of Americans now see Muslims as a force to fend off because of certain people who do bad things. I just wanted to point this out, especially to non-Americans. Maybe there are some Muslims here that might want to add a word or two.

I have plenty of Muslim friends who I like hanging out with. I know that most Muslims are good people. Every religious group has extremists. Christians, Buddhists, Hinduists, Msulims, everyone.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: City2TheMax 

There's a large group of Americans who are plain ignorant about Muslims and the Islam . .  quote>

 

I have to agree with this.  When I was a kid decades ago, there was very little taught about Islam or the Middle East, in general, for that matter.  My main exposure to culture from that part of the world was from Jonny Quest episodes, which is pretty pathetic.

In school, I was taught part of US history (nothing past WWI), some bits about "Latin America", Europe, and Australia.  Nothing about any part of Asia or Africa.  Religion, of any flavor, was not mentioned.

This was due to the post-Sputnik panic that we had to reach the Moon first.  Many subjects were tossed out the window in favor of beefed up math and science courses.

A few years ago, when my nephew was stationed in Iraq, my parents were wondering what time zone it was in.  I got out their 1968 World Book Encyclopedia to look it up.  The article on time zones had a map of the world along with a chart, saying London is GMT, New York is GMT -5, Paris is GMT + 1, and so forth.   In the entire chart, there was not one single city in the Middle East.  It was like that part of the world didn't exist or something.

[City2TheMax 3]

I obviously haven't been around as long as you have been

I do find it very interesting that in school we learn nothing about the Middle East. We learn about something realting to the US and it's history every 2 years, occasionally throwing something else in, but nothing about the Middle East. Everything I learned about extremist Muslims, the Iraq war, insurgents, IED's, Abu Ghraib, the Taliban, Al Quaeda, etc., I learned on my own (at age 14 I think that's pretty good). And having learned about this stuff has really opened my eys to what is really happening over there, and it would probably open up alot of other people's eyes about everything related to current events and the Islam.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

If you haven't seen Christianity attacked on ST, check out the creation vs evolution thread, it got pretty angry at times.

John Calvin admonished Christians to get along with non-believers, and to appease them if necessary/possible.

I do believe there is a war on Christianity, with Europe on the vanguard. The University of Edinburgh recently banned the Bible, then hosted Europe's largest pagan/occult festival. The EU is spending hundreds of millions of dollars to legalize abortion around the world. Many countries are putting people in jail for saying homosexuality is a sin. Etc etc etc, check out Lifesite for up-to-date news.

My ex-wife's father recently died, very much a non-believer all his life. Hours before he died, he accepted Christ. It's amazing to me that some people are angered by the idea that a deathbed conversion is valid!

The point much earlier about Catholicism being Christian; I'm sorry to say, it is not. There are many critical matters on which The Vatican directly contradicts the Bible, and even Christ's own words. They teach that salvation flows from Mary, that Mary is the "mediatrix" between God and Man, that one should pray to saints and other dead people, and that you must be baptized to be saved, etc. All of these things fly in the face of Christian doctrine. And that's just a small part of the whole divergence. My apologies to those angered by this assertion.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: manticorefan If you haven't seen Christianity attacked on ST, check out the creation vs evolution thread, it got pretty angry at times. quote>

Directly coupling Christianity and creationism is wrong. Creationism is a modern (American) invention and takes an extremely literal view on creation and genesis. There have been, and are, more than a few Christian scholars who did research into how God might have put us here, if it didn't happen exactly as a few Greeks wrote.

I do believe there is a war on Christianity, with Europe on the vanguard. The University of Edinburgh recently banned the Bible, then hosted Europe's largest pagan/occult festival.quote>

Haven't heard of this, do you have a link to news stories?

Many countries are putting people in jail for saying homosexuality is a sin.quote>

People who are bigoted get condemned, yeah, you hear this from a lot of Muslims for example. But which countries are putting people in jail for saying this?

My ex-wife's father recently died, very much a non-believer all his life. Hours before he died, he accepted Christ. It's amazing to me that some people are angered by the idea that a deathbed conversion is valid!quote>

If that gave him some relief, then it's good. Why would you demonize all non-Christians by assuming something like this?

The point much earlier about Catholicism being Christian; I'm sorry to say, it is not. There are many critical matters on which The Vatican directly contradicts the Bible, and even Christ's own words. They teach that salvation flows from Mary, that Mary is the "mediatrix" between God and Man, that one should pray to saints and other dead people, and that you must be baptized to be saved, etc. All of these things fly in the face of Christian doctrine. And that's just a small part of the whole divergence. My apologies to those angered by this assertion.quote>

What you call Christian is called Protestantism. Protestant/Reformed Christians base their belief solely on the bible, and reject the authority of the pope and all the frills and inventions of the Catholic church.

That doesn't mean that Orthodox and Catholic believers aren't part of Christianity as a whole as well. Different practices mark them as a different group that still falls under the umbrella of everyone who follows Christ, as opposed to those who follow Muhammed, Abraham or a bunch of Hindu gods. Look at it in a neutral way, not from the viewpoint of your own beliefs, which marks them as wrong. Catholics are Christian by the accepted definition of the word.