The SimTropolis House of Worship

[The_Family_Guy 2]

 

quote>

No, I'm not forgetting.  To me, if something, anything, says that God is evil, that is evidence that that something has been corrupted by man.  God is good.  God is love.

quote>

 

No, God is not evil at all, and I don't think I, or anyone else said that. If I did, I CERTAINLY did not intend to say that He is, so I'm sorry if I misled you. God is not evil if he chooses to retaliate for breaking one of his rules, but he sure will give a sore beating. God kind of made Job an example of that.

 

No harm done though, and if we disagree, then we must agree to do so.

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 1/8/2006 7:54:44 AM Author: Joesocwork Participants: Again, I don't know if I am speaking for all admins or not, but regarding Pat Robertson or other controversial people or beliefs, I personally don't have problems with stating agreement or disagreement, it's the mocking of people who don't share our various points of view that initially set off the staff member alarm bells in me.  Anyone who agrees with Mr. Robertson is also welcome to discuss their thoughts hopefully without fear of being teased or mocked for their point of view.    I also am glad that we are seeing that Members are accepting that regardless of personal opinions that there are currently in the world many points of view and behaviors that goes under the umbrella of Christian (other specific religions)/spirituality/faith, again regardless of what people may feel about the umbrella. 

That was precisely what I did in my now censored comment. There was no mocking at all, just a comment that certain things (I didn't specify what things) seemed rather reprehensible. It wasn't a mocking or poking fun at that particular religion. The things I alluded to are most certainly expounded by the teachers of their own faith.

 

So basically, I fail to see how my comment was 'bashing' in nature seeing as I was merely pointing out things that the teachers of their own faith say, in other words, fact. Perhaps I've missed something???

 

Of course, I know that that particular religion has had plenty of limelight and sympathy in the past, and as such, people everywhere are waaay more careful of comments (no matter how neutral it sounds) being made about or against it. Perhaps that's why my comment was deleted.

[deadwoods 542]

I've always had the impression, and speaking to my father (a devout Catholic) who agrees, that the Old Testament is generally accepted as a set of stories designed to convince the Isrealites how to lead a better life, not to be taken as a factual historical record (I know some facets of Christianity do and that worries me).

There are a lot of fire and brimstone stories that would have made it easier for people to absorb and remember. The Ten Commandments are just common sense and common decency. Don't steal, commit murder, have affairs etc. I don't believe in heaven or hell, but anyone with any life experience knows that for most people (with some level of conscience) that performing these acts will have dire consequences to the perpetrator and those around them, potentially creating a living hell. Why do the military spend so much on counselling, 'cos most of us know that killing is wrong.

The Old Testament stories were a good way of teaching and reinforcing these lessons.

[Meg 368]

Date: 1/9/2006 8:21:13 PM Author: ephorex_77

So basically, I fail to see how my comment was 'bashing' in nature seeing as I was merely pointing out things that the teachers of their own faith say, in other words, fact. Perhaps I've missed something???

 

quote>

The language you used qualifies as bashing.  and, no, I'm not repeating it here.  I have PMed you with specifics.

[Compromise 1]

Well I have been doing some work in Islam on marriage rights and responsiblites. Are latest homework was to explain the meaning of four quotes from the holy books of Islam. Hope you don't mind sharing it with you...

 

---

 

There are many ideas of marriage from the holy books of Islam. I will quote and explain some of them here.

 

[Meg 368]

Date: 1/9/2006 5:13:20 PM Author: The_Family_Guy

No, God is not evil at all, and I don't think I, or anyone else said that. If I did, I CERTAINLY did not intend to say that He is, so I'm sorry if I misled you. God is not evil if he chooses to retaliate for breaking one of his rules, but he sure will give a sore beating. God kind of made Job an example of that.

No harm done though, and if we disagree, then we must agree to do so.

quote>

Well, I suspect we might have to agree to disagree here.  Try as I might, I can

[Joesocwork 4]

Date: 1/11/2006 11:02:42 AM Author: SkiGeek

I believe we are all God

[Meg 368]

Date: 1/11/2006 1:07:40 PM Author: Joesocwork

Date: 1/11/2006 11:02:42 AM Author: SkiGeek

I believe we are all God

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 1/11/2006 1:48:43 PM Author: SkiGeek

Date: 1/11/2006 1:07:40 PM Author: Joesocwork

Date: 1/11/2006 11:02:42 AM Author: SkiGeek

I believe we are all God

[deadwoods 542]

Date: 1/11/2006 7:29:12 PM
Author: ephorex_77

... One cannot believe in bits and pieces of the Truth and expect anything. One must believe in the Truth's entirety and not just be 'cafeteria Christians', picking and choosing which doctrines to reject and embrace.

quote>

And this is why we have 32,000 denominations (or whatever number was quoted above) of Christianity. Every one interprets God's Truth in different ways. Each believes they have the correct interpretation, the Truth, but by definition there can only be one true interpretation of God's word spoken through the Bible.

But the key here is that ALL denominations are interpreting the Bible. No-one currently alive has spoken directly to God and recorded verbatim what He has said (and I mean no offence to anyones faith, or belief that they have spoken to God personally). God did not write the Bible. His prophets and others did, so again by definition it is their interpretation of events and spoken word.

We rely on (less than) 2000 years of writing, reading and interpretation. How do we know we are reading phrases in the Bible in the context that God expects them to be read? Some content is very clear and simple; such as the 10 Commandments. Much of the rest is written in language that isn't what we speak today, so we have translations and the risk that interpretations are incorrect or not what God wanted. We all suffer from reading things into books, instruction manuals etc. How are we expected to get it right from a book that is so old and has been translated and interpreted so many times. And if there is one unique truth, it should be so obvious to all to not need 32,000 denominations.

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 1/11/2006 8:50:04 PM Author: deadwoods

Date: 1/11/2006 7:29:12 PM Author: ephorex_77

... One cannot believe in bits and pieces of the Truth and expect anything. One must believe in the Truth's entirety and not just be 'cafeteria Christians', picking and choosing which doctrines to reject and embrace.

And this is why we have 32,000 denominations (or whatever number was quoted above) of Christianity. Every one interprets  God's Truth in different ways. Each believes they have the correct interpretation, the Truth, but by definition there can only be one true interpretation of God's word spoken through the Bible. But the key here is that ALL denominations are interpreting the Bible. No-one currently alive has spoken directly to God and recorded verbatim what He has said (and I mean no offence to anyones faith, or belief that they have spoken to God personally). God did not write the Bible. His prophets and others did, so again by definition it is their interpretation of events and spoken word. We rely on (less than) 2000 years of writing, reading and interpretation. How do we know we are reading phrases in the Bible in the context that God expects them to be read? Some content is very clear and simple; such as the 10 Commandments. Much of the rest is written in language that isn't what we speak today, so we have translations and the risk that interpretations are incorrect or not what God wanted. We all suffer from reading things into books, instruction manuals etc. How are we expected to get it right from a book that is so old and has been translated and interpreted so many times. And if there is one unique truth, it should be so obvious to all to not need 32,000 denominations.

Precisely so, and God has obviously thought of that. He realises that man would interpret the Bible in a whole host of different ways to suit his needs. This is why He instituted a Church to do this, guided by God Himself. Unfortunately, this is fiercely debated.

 

There are 32,000+ denominations, yet only one is correct. It's quite simple.

[MallowTheCloud 41]

Date: 1/12/2006 6:41:06 PM
Author: ephorex_77
...There are 32,000+ denominations, yet only one is correct. It's quite simple.

quote>

Or, option two is also possible.

There are 32,000+ denominations, and none are correct.

[Joesocwork 4]

Date: 1/12/2006 6:55:35 PM Author: MallowTheCloud

Date: 1/12/2006 6:41:06 PM Author: ephorex_77 ...There are 32,000+ denominations, yet only one is correct. It's quite simple.

quote> Or, option two is also possible. There are 32,000+ denominations, and none are correct.

quote>

Not if they are denominations.

[Meg 368]

I saw a great bumper sticker the other day:  God is too big to fit into one religion.

 

It's the most reasonable answer I've heard yet to the interesting question louisville327 raised a few weeks ago:

 

 

 

Date: 12/27/2005 6:46:47 PM Author: louisville327 

 . . .

The question is this: Why are Hindus wrong? 

 

. . .  There are only two conclusions:

 

1)  Both Christians and Hindus are right, and they just happen to worship the same God by different names and rituals.

 

2) Both Christians and Hindus are wrong, and they have faith in nothing more than their own particular historical mythologies.

 

Otherwise, each Supreme Being just felt like excluding most of the Earth from His grace in favor of one initially isolated civilization.

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Date: 1/12/2006 9:04:15 PM
Author: SkiGeek

I saw a great bumper sticker the other day: God is too big to fit into one religion.

quote>
In fact, would you not say that no religion can be fit to God, and that no relgion is fit for God?

[Joesocwork 4]

Bumper stickers are cute, but they don't tell us what God is or what God wants.

[dev 47]

Date: 1/12/2006 11:36:30 PM
Author: Joesocwork
Bumper stickers are cute, but they don't tell us what God is or what God wants.

quote>

Very true.

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 1/12/2006 11:36:30 PM Author: Joesocwork Bumper stickers are cute, but they don't tell us what God is or what God wants.

quote>

Amen. No pun intended.

 

If Hindus, having never heard of God (the 'Christian one'), follow their own consciences, which is intrinsically engraved in every human heart by God and do good, striving to seek Him at every opportunity, then they shall not be found lacking when they are judged at the last day. Invincible ignorance (having never, through no fault of their own, heard of God and His Word) is recognised by the Catholic Church. They are not instantly damned in this way.

 

So that basically answers the problem of salvation for Hindus.

[The_Family_Guy 2]

 

Date: 1/13/2006 3:12:05 AM Author: ephorex_77

Date: 1/12/2006 11:36:30 PM Author: Joesocwork Bumper stickers are cute, but they don't tell us what God is or what God wants.

Amen. No pun intended.

If Hindus, having never heard of God (the 'Christian one'), follow their own consciences, which is intrinsically engraved in every human heart by God and do good, striving to seek Him at every opportunity, then they shall not be found lacking when they are judged at the last day. Invincible ignorance (having never, through no fault of their own, heard of God and His Word) is recognised by the Catholic Church. They are not instantly damned in this way.

So that basically answers the problem of salvation for Hindus.

 

Jesus says that there is no way to the Father (that is God) but through Me. Clearly, there is something missing from the Hindu culture; that is, Jesus.

 

This is not a question; maybe it is to many of you, but not to me. Jesus is the only to God, therefore to heaven. It's not really complicated, there's nothing grand that you have to do...just stop sinning, but if you do, just ask Jesus for a forgiveness. You don't have to go to some guy in a booth, or even tell anyone else.

 

What we're forgetting is the Bible. This is the one true record of God's will. Not only is that statement faith-based, but also much of the Bible has been scientifically proven. From the walls of Jericho, to the pyramids, to the Shroud (ok, that hasen't been proven yet, but you get my point) there is far more evidence that God exists than that God doesn't exist. It's not some vague attempt to find something to worship because our lives are void of divine power, but rather a heavenly force that exists in all of us that makes God a part of each of our hearts.

 

There's alot to learn, but it's all simple in the end. Just look at Revelation being unraveled right before our eyes. Of course, not all is going to hell; there will be many improvements until the end time, but the other circumstances are falling into place mysteriously close to what Jesus said, and John the Revelator saw.

 

 

[Meg 368]

Date: 1/13/2006 7:46:54 PM Author: The_Family_Guy

. . . What we're forgetting is the Bible. This is the one true record of God's will.  . . .

quote>

And the Hindus think Vedas is the true record of revealed knowledge.  There are a billion people who believe that just as sincerely and just as devoutly as others believe in the Bible.  

[The_Family_Guy 2]

So you don't believe in any of the Bible or any God? Because if you did, then you would stop at nothing to defend His honor and word.

I'm not attacking you, I'm just getting mixed feelings. Either there's God, or there is no God. God has been proven to me. I've looked around, and I've seen no proof of any Shiva, or Muhammad, or some other man-made god. Once again, it's not a belief.

[Meg 368]

Date: 1/13/2006 8:12:43 PM Author: The_Family_Guy

So you don't believe in any of the Bible or any God?

 

Yes, I do believe in God and yes, I do think there is useful wisdom in the Bible despite it's corruption by man.   (More details available in previous posts in this thread.)

 

Date: 1/13/2006 8:12:43 PM Author: The_Family_Guy

I'm not attacking you, I'm just getting mixed feelings. Either there's God, or there is no God. God has been proven to me. I've looked around, and I've seen no proof of any Shiva, or Muhammad, or some other man-made god. Once again, it's not a belief.

 

God has been proven to me too.  and I suspect that other peoples' beliefs have been proven to them.  That doesn't make my experience right and their experience wrong.  

 

And, yes, it is a belief.  People can have evidence supporting their beliefs but they are still beliefs.  Relatively speaking, there are very few hard facts in the world.  Most things are based on our limited knowledge.  Most events that we experience are not facts.  They are our experiences, filtered through our perceptions.  and each of us experiences things differently.

 

Take a very simple, trivial, real world, example:  Put 10 people in a room and have a guy run in, interact briefly with one of them, and run out.  Most of the people in the room will give a different account of what the guy did and what he looked like.

 

But, somehow, when it comes to experiencing something more complex, like God, everyone is expected to have the same experience and beliefs?  That doesn't make sense to me.

 

I think that human beings talking about God is a lot like the  old story of the 6 blind men and the elephant.   They each had radically different perceptions but none of them were wrong.  It's just that their perceptions were incomplete and they didn't have the whole picture.

 

And, yes, I am saying that I believe there are parts of God that are unknowable to mankind.  God is greater than we are.  I believe that most, if not all, of the religions on the planet have some pieces of truth to them.  But I also believe that none of them have all of the truth or a monopoly on the truth.  As a planet, we are stumbling around, like the 6 blind men checking out the elephant.

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Who is man to speak of God? God is unknowable and the mind of God is ineffable.

Let me make myself perfectly clear:

1. There is a God.
2. There is no knowing Him because we are not able to encompass his purposes.
3. If you deny the existence of God, he won't care.

As a side note, there is a protestant church near me with a sign that says Our God is a good God. The indefinite article makes them polytheistic heretics. The sign may read God is good and even then you are not really qualified to say so, Minister.

[timotheus4 39]

There are 32,000+ denominations, yet only one is correct. It's quite simple.

quote>

I prefer to think of it as there are 32000+ denominations, of which there are varying degrees of correctness in each. I believe you already know my ideas about the degree of correctness in the Roman Church so I will not unnecessarily cause this topic to heat up once more.

To the end that there would be greater grace and knowledge, the following short work has been subjoined.
=========================================
The Gospel in a Nutshell

Let us begin at the Beginning. In the Beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, by the word of His power, in the space of six days, and all very good. Among His creations He created Man, after His own image, and set Him as the ruler of Creation. This man was Adam, representative of the Human Race. He failed the test which God had given him, namely, the forbidden fruit. In Adam's fall, we, who were bound in him, also sinned. With Adam's sin the world fell from its exalted created state, causing evil, death, pain, and sin to enter the previously perfect world. With the ejection from the Garden of Eden, however, God gave a promise, that though Adam had totally blown it, He had a plan...

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity
Between you [speaking to the serpent Satan] and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed [speaking of Christ];
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.

Throughout the ages, more was revealed. From Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to David to Nehemiah to Simeon, even as the world fell to pieces around them, a Flood wiped out all of the world they had known, languages were confounded, people migrated everywhere, there was always a remnant - sometimes larger, sometimes smaller - centered around the Jews, who trusted in a Saviour to come, to give light to the dying and lost; to give salvation to the weak and hopeless; to be a second Adam, a second representative of Man before God, so that as in Adam all died; even so in Christ all should be made alive. The Law was given both to testify of and foreshadow Him. Time and again He was prophesied of; by great prophets such as Isaiah and little prophets such as Micah; revealed to great men such as Solomon and unimportant ones like Anna. These faithful clung to the hope that eventually, One would come who would make the wrong right.

Such a one was found in no mere man, but the Son of God. Despite the great humiliation, He, God the Son, the second person of the Trinity, took on a true human body and a reasonable soul, mysteriously both God and Man in one person, yet not mixed, nor separate, and became JESUS CHRIST. By a great miracle he was born of a virgin, so that He would be the son of no man; He lived as a human among humans, living a perfect life, without fault, blame, or sin, perfect before God, unlike any man before. Yet this was not enough to satisfy God's righteous anger at the breaking of His commands. He, the holy and blameless One, suffered the torture and taunts of sinners, and died the cursed death of the cross; cursed by men, abandoned even by God, suffered and died - God Himself! so that the sins of the chosen of the past, present, and future, might be redeemed, forgiven, and forever wiped out of God's record. After this He rose, triumphant over Sin and Death, the firstfruits of that glorious Resurrection which all His saints will partake in at the end of time, when He returns. To any and all, he offers His grace; Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved. Trust in Him for remission of guilt, and it will be remitted. This gospel has touched untold billions and saved from the eternal wrath of God people from the worst of us to the best of us. Christ places no barriers to entry. Once your trust in Him is given, He will renew your life and make you better, until your death, when we, souls newly arisen, will be made perfect in holiness, and immediately pass into glory.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

@timotheus4: All these quotes are all very well, but remember that the winners wrote history. How overweeningly presumptious are the authors of the Bible in saying man is created in God's image. Six days? Six of whose days? etc.

The whole works is an allegory that was passed verbally for centuries before writing was invented. Every shaman edited it to serve his own purpose. The ethics are pretty good, but it really is just a code of ethics.

[Joesocwork 4]

 

Date: 1/13/2006 9:06:03 PM Author: SkiGeek

 

And, yes, it is a belief. People can have evidence supporting their beliefs but they are still beliefs. Relatively speaking, there are very few hard facts in the world. Most things are based on our limited knowledge. Most events that we experience are not facts. They are our experiences, filtered through our perceptions. and each of us experiences things differently.

Indeed, given our limited abilities to absorb everything, people tend to make more of religion and science then what they really are as a way to fill in the blanks.  Religion was meant as a way to understand man's relationship to Deity but not to answer every little question about history or the Who, What, Where, When, Why of things work.  Science was meant was a way to test ideas that people have about some of the 5 W's through actions that can repeated over and over again and therefore verified.  But people also tend to overgeneralize to what can be verified into ideas and theories that cannot.  That's fine as long as they work or until they verified or overturned.  But the fact is that they are also a matter of faith of as well.   

 

 

I think it speaks volumes of us positively as a race that we seek to grow past the limitations of what we can absorb. 

 

Date: 1/14/2006 12:10:32 AM Author: N_O_Body

@timotheus4: All these quotes are all very well, but remember that the winners wrote history. How overweeningly presumptious are the authors of the Bible in saying man is created in God's image.

Six days? Six of whose days? etc. The whole works is an allegory that was passed verbally for centuries before writing was invented. Every shaman edited it to serve his own purpose. The ethics are pretty good, but it really is just a code of ethics.

 

I'd like to think the winner is Deity, who can use a part of creation (man) to communicate what Deity desires, despite our imperfections.  That's part of the miraculousness of it.  It's still up for us as individuals and as a race to appreciate the gifts of the communication and desire to grow past our imperfections.

[Zelgadis 638]

I'm going to assume for a moment that some of the things I've read in this thread are true.

Hell seems like the best place to be. It's diverse, multicultural, and well-populated. Shoot, probably even beings from other planets live there. Sounds also like a great place to invest in real estate. All in all, a very good place to be. Well, except for the fire and stuff.

Heaven sounds awfully sparsely populated and dull. Poor God. He must be quite tired of monoculturism and underpopulation. Must be difficult to get a group together for a baseball game. And even more difficult to have a sumo tournament. Most of those athletes will be in the other place.

[/assumption]

Just a thought.

ISF

[MC6Ash 4]

I'm just curious (I haven't been keeping track of this thread), is this for discussing gd from a christian point of view? or is it a multi-religion thread?

~Ash~

[Joesocwork 4]

Date: 1/14/2006 11:28:55 AM Author: zelgadis

I'm going to assume for a moment that some of the things I've read in this thread are true.

Hell seems like the best place to be. It's diverse, multicultural, and well-populated. Shoot, probably even beings from other planets live there.  Sounds also like a great place to invest in real estate. All in all, a very good place to be. Well, except for the fire and stuff.

Heaven sounds awfully sparsely populated and dull. Poor God. He must be quite tired of monoculturism and underpopulation. Must be difficult to get a group together for a baseball game. And even more difficult to have a sumo tournament. Most of those athletes will be in the other place. [/assumption]

Just a thought. ISF

 

Sounds entertaining.  Was one of us quoting Dante?

[MC6Ash 4]

I'm just curious (I haven't been keeping track of this thread), is this for discussing gd from a christian point of view? or is it a multi-religion thread?

~Ash~

 

(fourth attempt at posting)