The SimTropolis House of Worship

[The_Family_Guy 2]

Date: 1/23/2006 12:59:27 PM Author: Ma8thew When I was in prison you visited me Just a question for you belivers; do you visit those in prison, who society has forsaken?

quote>

Yeah, our church has a prison ministry that extends a helping hand to those prisoners with emotional needs; moreover, there are prisoners that have come to our church when they got out, just because of our influence, as well as God's influence.

 

Yes, you are correct to say that that is Jesus' teaching, to turn your cheek to the enemy (if you consider them your enemy, or at least hate them for what they have done.) Forgiveness is number one on the scale, because Jesus said that those who do not forgive others, will NOT be forgiven by Him, which closes the gate to heaven basically.

[GAT-X105 3]

I'll admit that I didn't read the whole thread. My eyes started getting blurry around page 12. But here's my thought:

My parents are both liberal Catholics. My dad even went to Catholic high school. They (and me) believe that Catholocism is just one of a great many ways to interpreter a greater being.

My personal belief is that if there is an all-knowing, all-powerful being out there, who can do absolutely anything imaginable and things we'd never even imagine, then why couldn't that deity represent it in various different forms, that fit into the various cultures of humanity.

My uncle and his family live in San Diego. They are extremely devout Southern Baptists. They're very nice people, but they probably pray for us evil Catholics daily. Once my grandmother was visiting them, and went to church, and someone asked oh I don't see you around, which church are you from? When my grandmother replied I'm Catholic, the other woman got up and moved away. Love thy neighbor, indeed.

[defcon pilot 0]

Turn your cheek? Eh?
Almost all my friends are religious. Yet I am not. Most Christian people I know are nice people.

[The_Family_Guy 2]

Date: 1/24/2006 2:40:43 AM Author: defcon pilot 'Turn your cheek'? Eh? Almost all my friends are religious. Yet I am not. Most Christian people I know are nice people.

quote>

 

What? I didn't say that non-Christians are the enemy. An enemy is anyone that hates you.

[defcon pilot 0]

I didn't mean that, and now I don't follow.

[The_Family_Guy 2]

Date: 1/24/2006 11:24:55 PM Author: defcon pilot I didn't mean that, and now I don't follow.

quote>

Hmm, just sounds like a misunderstanding on my part, sorry.

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

SkiGeek:...............

Girl, I really like you and all, but I think I told you so.

 

The ST Closet thread is actually more successful at staying and not straying.

 

But to be fair, you should have nixxed both threads immediately, as too personal for any game forum. Even an off topic one.

 

Remember when I first came here to ST?

 

Please go back and read my first few posts. I had a chip on my shoulder and couldn't seem to shake it. All becuase the last website I frequented, was all about arguing these very same issues! I didn't realize what a monster it made me become! I only wanted to argue and I was feeding of of that.

 

I am a Christian, but I do not need this thread at ST!

 

Please, please, stop the religion and lifestyles junk and lets all get back to SC4 and gmax and all the really fun artistic stuff?

[Joesocwork 4]

Date: 1/26/2006 7:13:51 AM Author: frndofyaweh

Please go back and read my first few posts. I had a chip on my shoulder and couldn't seem to shake it. All becuase the last website I frequented, was all about arguing these very same issues! I didn't realize what a monster it made me become! I only wanted to argue and I was feeding of of that.

 Self insight is a good thing!

 

Date: 1/26/2006 7:13:51 AM Author: frndofyaweh

SkiGeek:...............

Please, please, stop the religion and lifestyles junk and lets all get back to SC4 and gmax and all the really fun artistic stuff?

Dictating to others isn't such a good thing.

[Joesocwork 4]

Meanwhile...

I was asked to give to an invitation talk at my congregation last night.  I did it on Leviticus 25:25 and the redeeming kin.  I got good feedback at about the topic.  I did go long unfortunately about 10-15 minutes, when invitation talks are encouraged to be 2-5 minutes.  I just got too much into my subject.

 

 

Leviticus can a very dry book b/c it's mostly about a lot of rules to govern the new nation of Israel.  But those same rules, although mostly religious in nature, also helped in the formation of their budding culture.  When I taught it in a class about 3 years ago I enjoyed trying to speculate what impact it had on their music, language, and mores, etc.  As a result, I found myself more interested in Egyptian, Roman, and other Mediterranean cultures as well.   Also intriguing is the use of Israel as a physical symbology for spiritual matters in the New Testament.  I enjoyed reading about the various feasts and sacrifice rituals in Leviticus and trying to figure out what they might be alluding to in the New Testament book of Hebrews, which refers to Leviticus a lot.  Many people don't really understand or appreciate the interconnections between the New & Old Testaments.  Now if I can learn to curb my enthusiasm to just two minutes!

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 1/23/2006 6:59:58 PM Author: GAT-X105 My uncle and his family live in San Diego. They are extremely devout Southern Baptists. They're very nice people, but they probably pray for us evil Catholics daily. Once my grandmother was visiting them, and went to church, and someone asked 'oh I don't see you around, which church are you from?' When my grandmother replied 'I'm Catholic,' the other woman got up and moved away. Love thy neighbor, indeed.

quote>

 

Yeah, you probably get a lot of people thinking that the Pope is the Anti-Christ because of the Book of Revelation and all that talk of the 'city of seven hills', the 'Whore of Bablylon' and the stuff about Rome and all that. You probably even get people thinking we're not 'true Christians' because we Catholics don't adhere to the 'doctrine' of sola scriptura (following the Bible only) Of course, seeing as we all 'worship' the Pope, we're all damned to all eternity with the devil.

 

Ah well...as to your experience, that actually made me laugh out loud (no offence to your grandmother). The exact same thing happened to my mother when she was invited by a family friend (a non-Catholic pastor) to his get-togethers. My mum was asked by someone besides her something along the lines of, 'I haven't seen you here before...' My mum said she was from a different church; the lady was aghast when she heard my mum was Catholic. She promptly moved away upon hearing that.... 

 

Heh, ah well, I just hope the same can't be said about other Catholics when it comes to non-Catholics.

[The_Family_Guy 2]

Date: 1/26/2006 7:13:51 AM Author: frndofyaweh

SkiGeek:...............

Girl, I really like you and all, but I think I told you so.

The ST Closet thread is actually more successful at staying and not straying.

But to be fair, you should have nixxed both threads immediately, as too personal for any game forum. Even an off topic one.

Remember when I first came here to ST?

Please go back and read my first few posts. I had a chip on my shoulder and couldn't seem to shake it. All becuase the last website I frequented, was all about arguing these very same issues! I didn't realize what a monster it made me become! I only wanted to argue and I was feeding of of that.

I am a Christian, but I do not need this thread at ST!

Please, please, stop the religion and lifestyles junk and lets all get back to SC4 and gmax and all the really fun artistic stuff?

quote>

 

Actually, I thinks it's a great idea to share opinions, and to discuss what's on our minds, even if it IS a game site. This is what this forum is for; it's just like a breakroom at work, where you can vent to your co-workers about anything and everything. Not only is it good to share ideas, but it's great to learn more about people in general and their views on a wide array of subjects. If you want to stop all this, then simply don't click on this forum name. Arguing doesn't make you a monster.

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

I don't mean to sound dictorial. Just One of those loud mouths who always hands out uninvited advice.

Really though, I am a teacher at heart and usually end up on the answer end of a, question and answer period.

 

So.....

 

I said it twice already... that I would be quiet and yet.......

 

Okay......

 

Maybe I am more of a trouble maker here.

 

I apologize SkiGeek. I hope I didn't upset you too much? I just hate to see you guys get worked over, err,...I mean over worked. heheehe.

[Joesocwork 4]

You're still cracking me up!

I think both threads are showing that it's quite possible to teach and share without proselytizing and trying to force other to believe and do exactly what we do.

[Meg 368]

Date: 1/28/2006 5:00:03 AM Author: frndofyaweh

I don't mean to sound dictorial. Just One of those loud mouths who always hands out uninvited advice.

Really though, I am a teacher at heart and usually end up on the answer end of a, question and answer period.

So.....

I said it twice already... that I would be quiet and yet.......

Okay......

Maybe I am more of a trouble maker here.

I apologize SkiGeek. I hope I didn't upset you too much? I just hate to see you guys get worked over, err,...I mean over worked. heheehe.

quote>

 

 

No, you didn't upset me.   Personally, I think threads like this are fascinating.  In RL, we don't often get a chance to talk about these things with people from a wide variety of backgrounds and beliefs.

 

I agree with Joe:  I think both threads are showing that it's quite possible to teach and share without proselytizing and trying to force other to believe and do exactly what we do.

 

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

This seems to have strayed from its topic. Maybe we should get back to it.

Is anyone sure that the creator wants worship? Without commiting the sin of presumption, how do you know?

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 1/28/2006 5:50:29 PM Author: N_O_Body This seems to have strayed from its topic.  Maybe we should get back to it. Is anyone sure that the creator wants worship?  Without commiting the sin of presumption, how do you know?

quote>

Well, if one believes in the Bible and believes in its inerrancy, then it's there; you just have to look for it. In fact, check out the...2nd Commandment?? Or the 1st...

 

joe: Sorry I didn't reply to your earlier post about parallels; I was too busy replying to someone else. Yes, there are so many parallels between the Old and the New Testament that people fail to see. Just a couple of interesting (because they're contentious ) ones include the parallels between Adam and Eve and the New Adam (Jesus) and the New Eve (Mary). Another one is also the description of a certain High Priest and the office of the Pope. I'll get the verses some other time; about to go to Mass at the moment.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Date: 1/28/2006 6:06:05 PM
Author: ephorex_77

Date: 1/28/2006 5:50:29 PM Author: N_O_Body This seems to have strayed from its topic.  Maybe we should get back to it. Is anyone sure that the creator wants worship?  Without commiting the sin of presumption, how do you know?

quote>

Well, if one believes in the Bible and believes in its inerrancy, then it's there; you just have to look for it. In fact, check out the...2nd Commandment?? Or the 1st...

quote>

Alas, now here you want me to take it on faith. I don't see anything in the commandments that says worship Me. It just says obey Me and keep Me in mind, and take My Day off.

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 1/28/2006 9:23:24 PM Author: N_O_Body

Date: 1/28/2006 6:06:05 PM Author: ephorex_77

Date: 1/28/2006 5:50:29 PM Author: N_O_Body This seems to have strayed from its topic.  Maybe we should get back to it. Is anyone sure that the creator wants worship?  Without commiting the sin of presumption, how do you know?

quote>
Well, if one believes in the Bible and believes in its inerrancy, then it's there; you just have to look for it. In fact, check out the...2nd Commandment?? Or the 1st...

quote> Alas, now here you want me to 'take it on faith'.  I don't see anything in the commandments that says worship Me.  It just says obey Me and keep Me in mind, and take My Day off.

quote>

Tough nut to crack eh??

 

Well, Jesus (if you believe in what He says) said:

 

And Jesus answering said to him. It is written: Thou shalt adore the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

                                                                                                                                                                (Luke 4:8, Douay-Rheims)

 

In other translations, they have 'worship' etc. 'Serve' was known to mean 'worship' and give reverence to. So there you have it; from the man Himself.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Date: 1/28/2006 10:10:53 PM
Author: ephorex_77

Date: 1/28/2006 9:23:24 PM Author: N_O_Body

Date: 1/28/2006 6:06:05 PM Author: ephorex_77

Date: 1/28/2006 5:50:29 PM Author: N_O_Body This seems to have strayed from its topic.  Maybe we should get back to it. Is anyone sure that the creator wants worship?  Without commiting the sin of presumption, how do you know?

quote>

Well, if one believes in the Bible and believes in its inerrancy, then it's there; you just have to look for it. In fact, check out the...2nd Commandment?? Or the 1st...

quote> Alas, now here you want me to 'take it on faith'. I don't see anything in the commandments that says worship Me. It just says obey Me and keep Me in mind, and take My Day off.

quote>
Tough nut to crack eh??

Well, Jesus (if you believe in what He says) said:
'And Jesus answering said to him. It is written: Thou shalt adore the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.'
(Luke 4:8, Douay-Rheims)

In other translations, they have 'worship' etc. 'Serve' was known to mean 'worship' and give reverence to. So there you have it; from the man Himself.

quote>
Well, if you are going to quote any translation I think the Douay is the one we both grew up with. I still have a problem with the semantics of worship. I also have a problem with the words of Jesus as reported by someone some 80 years or more after His death.

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 1/28/2006 11:06:19 PM Author: N_O_Body ...as per above  

quote>

Well to be honest, I only used the Douay-Rheims version because it's the most accurate English translation available (according to the Catholic Church) and also, because I thought you might have had some past experience with that translation seeing as you were once a Catholic and probably used the older, more accurate texts (including the pre-Vatican II texts). Seems I was right on the last count; the first is subject to belief.

 

Luke's gospel probably wasn't written 80 years after Jesus' death (33 A.D.). Luke wrote it in his lifetime and I doubt he wrote it in 113 A.D. The same goes for the other gospels; I think they wrote down the same account; have to check up on that though.

 

As to the semantics of 'worship', why not follow what the Church has directed?? Unless of course, you don't believe in God and the authority of the Church, given by Jesus Himself.

 

 

[Joesocwork 4]

Date: 1/28/2006 5:50:29 PM Author: N_O_Body

Is anyone sure that the creator wants worship? Without commiting the sin of presumption, how do you know?

I believe that is quite reasonable to ask what it is the creator wants and to stick with that only. 

 

 

In terms of worship, I understand the Bible to teach through command and example that the following is authorized: Communion (Lord's Supper)-Acts 20:7, Singing - Eph.5:19, Praying - 1 Thess.5:17, Giving - 2 Cor.9:6,7, and  Teaching & Preaching - 1 Tim.3:15

 

 

Based on passages such as I Thessalonians 5: 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good., I believe that it is responsibility of those that want to serve Deity to show that something is right rather than that something is wrong.  That is why I also don't participate in a lot of trappings and rituals that many people associate with christianity;  there is nothing in them that I can be assured that God wants, and I don't want to do things just b/c they simply make me feel better about myself.

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 1/29/2006 11:19:48 PM Author: Joesocwork That is why I also don't participate in a lot of trappings and rituals that many people associate with christianity.

quote>

'Trappings' are and were demanded by God for His worship. The tents and temples built in the Old Testament were ordered by God. God only disproves of ostentatious trappings and rituals for the worship of other gods that existed at the time as well as those that are used to enrich the greedy.

 

Besides, with the exception of the altar and the chalice and the paten, much of what is used in the Church is simple. Think about it this way: God made the world and all in it. Shouldn't He be given the highest respect that man can afford Him?? The Vatican was built grandly to reflect the glory of God and His works. The cathedrals of almost all Christian denominations were built as towering edifices and with soaring steeples and ceilings to reflect His majesty and to bring our minds the extent of His power.

 

Money 'given' to God; to glorify Him isn't wasted. The Church also runs countless charities and welfare services for the needy and the poor. In fact, in some places, the Church is the largest provider of these welfare services.

 

Rituals too, are not wasted. If God wants them, shall He not receive them at His pleasure?? The rituals Jesus talked about referred to some Jewish customs at the time (circumcision for instance); most of them largely irrelevant after the Babylonian Captivity. Some of them were also superfluous and were used to indicate piousness falsely.

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

N_O_Body: Yes, I do see your point on worship.

Instead of quoting scripture though, I will try to set a different view, or way to look at it.

 

Worship: A good and loving Father, will always wish that his offspring adore him, look up to him and trust him. Come to him first, when something goes wrong in their lives. That is the definition of worship.

 

In return a good and never failing Father; will return that worship with pride. Being proud of a childs accomplishments is a good kind of pride.

 

It is that acceptance, we all strive for, from our natural fathers and when it comes to a the greatest and most trustworthy Father of them all; It is ten times more fulfilling.

 

Worship is not a duty or chore. It is a passion and a desire, born out of my love for Him and how He never fails me as a Father.

[Joesocwork 4]

Date: 1/30/2006 3:39:44 AM Author: ephorex_77

Date: 1/29/2006 11:19:48 PM Author: Joesocwork That is why I also don't participate in a lot of trappings and rituals that many people associate with christianity.

 The rituals Jesus talked about referred to some Jewish customs at the time (circumcision for instance); most of them largely irrelevant after the Babylonian Captivity. Some of them were also superfluous and were used to indicate piousness falsely.

Whenever Jesus condemned the Jewish clerical class (i.e. the Pharisees and Sadducees) it wasn't for enforcing rules that had been established in the Torah but for creating and forcing people to follow rules that came along later.  I can't in good conscience perform acts of worship that I don't read that Deity authorized.

[The_Family_Guy 2]

Date: 1/30/2006 4:13:56 AM Author: frndofyaweh

 

 

Worship is not a duty or chore. It is a passion and a desire, born out of my love for Him and how He never fails me as a Father.

quote>

 

Exactly, you're right on.

 

I guess my last post was eaten by the Ideal, but I encourage people who want to know how to worship to read Psalms, namely the last Psalm, appropriated named Praise the Lord.

 

God's love is eternal. There's nothing in the Bible that suggests otherwise. God simply hates our sins, our actions, and our thoughts, but he loves us as any father would. We forsake that love WHEN we sin, therefore, God disowns you when you die: I do not know you, be gone. Hell is not a pretty place, so I try to keep the sinning to a minimum.

[deadwoods 542]

The wealth held by the Catholic (and other Chuches) has always struck me as kindof against the teachings. I had a solid Catholic education, through primary and secondary school (the latter with De La Salle brothers). A lot of the religuous ed we had in secondary school was towards the practical/realistic aspects (I remember a great discussion about the pro's and con's of prostitution, which was an open and frank discussion for our maturing minds not a mindless indoctrination).

Anyway, we were always taught to think of others. We were often raising money for needy causes, such as the work the Brothers did in Papua New Guinea. We did walkathons and such raising thousands of dollars.

I always found it hard to weigh up the wealth that the Catholic Church held against the poverty that could be helped. Why does a congregation need the biggest church on the highest hill (and you'll find most Catholic Churches are on the high ground), when a simpler church could save money that could be used to help those less fortunate?

I know a lot of the Catholic Church money is old realestate and priceless works of art. But as a kid growing up and watching the rise of the Evangalical churches in the US, I was in awe at how much money was flowing into building these monuments. You don't need the grandest edifice to worship.

[Tolomar 5]

thats because over the centuries the Catholic church and many other chruches and faiths have been used by men of power to control the masses to do their bidding @dead, most of the medevil europe was controled by the church   (the pope and cardinals had huge armies and a lot of power, very odd for a faith that teaches peace and turn the other cheek and give to the poor)and the men who rose to the top of the ranks, weren't always men of faith

to this day those stuctures of power and status still exist

 

the rise of the evandualist churches in america is just an extention of this... there will always be ppl willing to expliot other beliefs in god to line their pockets or feed their egos and lust for power

[SamFlash 0]

Date: 1/30/2006 6:19:37 PM Author: Tolomar

thats because over the centuries the Catholic church and many other chruches and faiths have been used by men of power to control the masses to do their bidding @dead, most of the medevil europe was controled by the church   (the pope and cardinals had huge armies and a lot of power, very odd for a faith that teaches peace and turn the other cheek and give to the poor)and the men who rose to the top of the ranks, weren't always men of faith

to this day those stuctures of power and status still exist

the rise of the evandualist churches in america is just an extention of this... there will always be ppl willing to expliot other beliefs in god to line their pockets or feed their egos and lust for power

quote>

I think that is a statement that could be applied to every religion and every institution created by man.  Someone somewhere is lining their pocket.

[The_Family_Guy 2]

Date: 1/30/2006 6:19:37 PM Author: Tolomar

thats because over the centuries the Catholic church and many other chruches and faiths have been used by men of power to control the masses to do their bidding @dead, most of the medevil europe was controled by the church   (the pope and cardinals had huge armies and a lot of power, very odd for a faith that teaches peace and turn the other cheek and give to the poor)and the men who rose to the top of the ranks, weren't always men of faith

to this day those stuctures of power and status still exist

the rise of the evandualist churches in america is just an extention of this... there will always be ppl willing to expliot other beliefs in god to line their pockets or feed their egos and lust for power

quote>

 

This is true for some. Most evangelists do not intend to line their pockets, but do anyway because of the high volume of tithers (that is 10% of your income goes to God). Others however, seem to take advantage and cloud the temple with their change stalls and dove-sellers. And we all know how Jesus took that: very ragefully. The Catholics seem to have a weird adoration for the Pope, however. It's too bad, because the Pope is a man...Nice guy though, I hear. I still don't get why you go to some guy in a booth to confess your sins, when clearly your sins are between you and God. Funny, how some misconstrue the Bible into their little impeccable order of power and greed.

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

Date: 1/30/2006 6:14:05 AM Author: Joesocwork: Whenever Jesus condemned the Jewish clerical class (i.e. the Pharisees and Sadducees) it wasn't for enforcing rules that had been established in the Torah but for creating and forcing people to follow rules that came along later.  I can't in good conscience perform acts of worship that I don't read that Deity authorized.

quote>

I couldn't agree more Joe. I have roamed and shopped for a church home, forever it seems.

I finally found a solid church, but still cannot escape the plastic trappings, that so many orgs and denoms like to tack onto my fellowship.

 

I just do not fit in anywhere maybe?

 

Jesus did exactly that too. The P's and S's had made worshipping Abba way too complicated for the average person. So mush so, that it was impossible to follow all the rules and make all the sacrifices they required.