Returning to the game fresh - some questions on how to do it right

[CorinaMarie 29,852]

Well, I was parked in this thread and when it said there was a new reply,  I clicked quote, did my research, and saw your edit afterward. I decided to leave the file names and sizes in there in case it would be helpful to any other newbie readers of the thread.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

The NAM is the one and only essential mod if you don't have anything else.  The default traffic controller is very broken, so if you don't do anything else, grab the NAM and install the traffic controller.  This fixes a number of nasty things in your game like No Job Zots (NJZs) when you can clearly see a path from a residential lot to a job (at the suitable level).  It also reduces abandonment due to commute time as it extends the pathfinder's reach.

Everything else in the NAM is optional, but it has so many juicy things that you will want to experiment and start climbing the learning curve.

There are some other mods on the STEX with the word 'fix' in the title.  These are real bug fixes and you should have them along with the police fix 'crime doesnt pay' (no apostrophe in doesn't).

The NAM is a huge, free expansion pack, and needs to be handled carefully.  It can add to your enjoyment of the game by a couple of orders of magnitude.

[rsc204 21,855]

11 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Ok. I'm totally convinced.  I've downloaded NAM 34.

 - I'm sure you won't regret it. A basic install ("Traffic Simulator and Maxis Fixes Only"), will pretty much just applies fixes to the game. Without these, you may run into problems, especially at later stages of development.

In future you can add other parts when you feel ready. To do this, run the Custom Installation option. You may need to spend a good 10minutes going through all the options though. However, after you've done this once, further instances of the installer will remember your old settings so you can simply add/remove items without repeating the process.

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So, does this mean I don't want the SPAR? Like should I just use the SPAM, MTP, and NAM?

SPAR is just a series of non-functioning lots that make areas around farms look better. Adding pathways, driveways and various other eye-candy to improve the looks.

SPAM is a great mod, but bear in mind SPAM is only the base set. There are a multitude of add-ons for it too.

MTP - as in the Super Pak - is little more than a dependency package. This means it just contains a bunch of models/textures etc that can be used by other mods or content. As such, installing the Super Pak will not add new items to your menus. It is required, since SPAM uses many items from it.

I may have confused the issue before. Basically a Super Pak or Mega Pack replaces a number of smaller dependencies. So for example a user may make a number of little dependencies, let's call them someuser dependency1 - someuser dependency 4. Well after a while, rather than making people download 4 dependency packages, they are combined into a mega pack, say someuser mega-pack1. Now, if you have someuser dependency 1-4, but install someuser mega-pack1, you can remove any of the first four smaller packages, since the mega-pack contains everything in them too.

If you look at the documentation for the Super Pak, it tells you which files it's replacing:

• * PEG Mountain Theme Pack  ( PEG_MTP_RESOURCE_vol1.dat   &  PEG_MTP_TEXTURES_vol1.dat )
• * PEG-MTP Texture Pack Volume 2 ( PEG-MTP_TEXTURES_vol2.dat )
• * PEG-MTP Resource Pack 2 [beta]  ( PEG-MTP_RESOURCE2_b102.dat )
• * PEG Pine Tree Mod [ resource file only ]  ( PEG-MTP_GM-TreeMod_RESOURCE )

So in essence, if you have those files, you can remove them. If a mod tells you to install any of them, you don't have to, provided the Super Pak is still installed. If like most people, you installed this having installed everything else first, it would be more logical. But as a new user, sometimes you might forget this when another mod refers to an outdated file, perhaps in a few months time. That's where MegaPacks can be trouble, rarely do readmes get updated, so many mods refer to the original files, often these are no longer available too.

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And am I remembering right that the MTP Super Pack includes the I-HT and Crime fixes? Or am I confusing that with something else?

No it doesn't. Pretty much all the Maxis Fixes need to be installed separately, the I-HT fix being the most important. You should ensure you patch SC4.exe to 1.1.640 before you apply these fixes or install the NAM. Since afterwards, the patches may fail to run successfully.

I think it's about time all the info on setting up the game was compiled into a simple guide, I'll see what I can do about that :).

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Edit: Oh, and my comp isn't up to much. It's a Dell GX-270 with a 2.8ghz processor, 2gb of PC2100 ram, and a 128mg Nvidia GeForce 5600 graphics card.

Well the good news is that SimCity 4 isn't really picky about you having a new computer. With those specs I wouldn't install every bit of HD content for example. But my old computer was similar and ran the game very well for the most part.

One key is to keep your plugins folder organised and free of bloat. That doesn't mean you can't amass a lot of content. But if you install it the right way, you are less likely to run into problems later.

[CorinaMarie 29,852]

Thanks again for such a detailed reply.

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

I think it's about time all the info on setting up the game was compiled into a simple guide, I'll see what I can do about that :).

With regard to a new guide, would you mind if I give it a go myself and you critique it? I know it's rather presumptuous of me being brand new to your site and all, but I am kinda well known on a different gaming site and I've written a couple guides there, one of which has become a de facto standard. (I host it in my own guild so I have complete control over it. Editing a post in regular topics isn't allowed after 30 minutes.) Which brings up a question about this site: How long is the edit option available for my posts?

I feel that since I'm starting out so fresh with my SC4D install from the ground up I might have some insight for what is so confuzzling to a newbie.

So far all I've done gamewise is install the 638 patch. I've decided to do the 640 next cause I'm planning to do a CJ and some peeps might enjoy some nighttime pics.

[rsc204 21,855]

Edits are generally OK anytime. However, with the Ommibus (tutorial section), there is a bug that locks it after every edit :(. That would be very tedious, but thankfully I have the ability to unlock mine, which you won't, sorry :(.

I don't want to get into a competition as to who can write the best tutorial, so if you are also motivated here, how about some sort of collaboration? That way we can combine the experience of a new user, with the knowledge of someone who's familiar with the ins and outs? I've more than enough experience writing documentation too.

My goals would be to cover every little detail from Installing SC4 to get the game patched and working optimally. My only concern if you go it alone, is perhaps you don't have the overview I do of this.

[CorinaMarie 29,852]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

I don't want to get into a competition as to who can write the best tutorial, so if you are also motivated here, how about some sort of collaboration? That way we can combine the experience of a new user, with the knowledge of someone who's familiar with the ins and outs.

Oh, goodness! I didn't mean to imply it would be a competition nor that I could write a better guide. My idea was to lessen your burden since you are already so active here. Collaboration would suit me perfectly well.

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My goals would be to cover every little detail from Installing SC4 to get the game patched and working optimally.

Yes, this is exactly what I had in mind too.

[rsc204 21,855]

1 minute ago, CorinaMarie said:

Oh, goodness! I didn't mean to imply it would be a competition nor that I could write a better guide. My idea was to lessen your burden since you are already so active here. Collaboration would suit me perfectly well.

No implication taken... just trying myself not to be egotistical about things... If a collaboration works for you, then I will get in touch over PM so we can organise things.

[CorinaMarie 29,852]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

No implication taken... just trying myself not to be egotistical about things... If a collaboration works for you, then I will get in touch over PM so we can organise things.

Sounds good. I shall await said PM.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Good luck on this.  The current fiasco with Windows 10 and the removal of Safe Disk has rather invalidated the old CD versions of the game, but the good news is that the digital version (Build No. 1,1,641) contains the Maxis patches and runs without Safe Disk.  In fact, this version isn't even encrypted.

Updating the digital version consists only of correct use of custom content fixes and add ons.  How much effort should go into describing the required patches for the CD version becomes moot as time goes on.  However, some effort should go into installing after market items where the original Maxis disk layout (file layout) is not used.  Origin and Steam are the main offenders, but I have heard that GOG has a habit of sticking their name in at the head of the structure.  This makes it a bit of a nuisance to install items such as the BAT.

[CorinaMarie 29,852]

5 hours ago, A Nonny Moose said:

... the removal of Safe Disk has rather invalidated the old CD versions of the game ...

A very good point. I realize now I had an ill-conceived idea of writing something specifically for someone who has a good-enough-but-antique rig like mine. I'm running XPSP3 and using the CD version of the game. I haven't received the PM from rsc yet, so I'm guessing he's busy with other things so we haven't had a chance to pow-wow over it.

Anyhow, how does this sound for a generic what to do steps to get up to the best, but basic, running copy of SC4D?

1. Install the game (duh!)

2. Patch 638

3. Patch 640

4. Get SC4 Dat Packer (needed for the I-HT fix)

5. I-HT Fix

6. Opera House Fix

7. Private School Fix

8. Crime Doesnt Pay

9. U2 Corrupted Exemplar Fix

10. All 3 CityHalls Modd Reward fix

11. Area 51 Air Force Base No Exclusion

12. Space Port Fix Mod 1.0

13. NAM 34

And then what about all the original content linked to in Get your Maxis file here! ? I've downloaded every single one of them. I still haven't done anything on my game comp other than the 638 patch I installed last week. I'm waiting till I really feel comfortable for what I need, am sure I have it all, and have confidence I won't bork anything. And after that, as my own desired install, will be the SPAM, SPAR and what-not you turned me on to.

I do have unbroken URLs saved in notepad for all those. I'll just wait for my part in the guide if it's needed before I spend the time posting them.

[rsc204 21,855]

Check your messages, I sent one about 9 hours ago? Perhaps you didn't get a notification?

MTP is nothing to do with the NAM BTW.

Most of what you have there is on my list too. Covering the patches is only a waste of time if people didn't still ask about them. A number of users prefer the work-arounds to get the CD's working. So in the vain of being comprehensive, all that should go in IMO.

After the needed fixes, just covering what Maxis released and a few useful tools like God Mode Terrain Tools, the Census Repository and the Immortality killer couldn't hurt. After that you are looking at what I deem proper mods.

If I can find a way to do it without stepping on toes, I'll also try to compile as many fixes into one download/DAT as I can along the way. Simplification would be a boon here too.

[CorinaMarie 29,852]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Check your messages, I sent one about 9 hours ago? Perhaps you didn't get a notification?

Nope. I've deliberately checked every half hour or so. Still nothing there. I even clicked on go to inbox. I did delete our prior two-post conversation earlier. Could I have done something that blocked you? And if I did, would it tell you that when you send a PM to me?

 

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MTP is nothing to do with the NAM BTW.

Oh. Right. Maybe it was the dependencies for SPAM. I've been reading and downloading bunches and bunches (and bunches) of stuff that I might want to use and I've prolly confused it with NAM. I'll edit that out of my post so it doesn't confuzzle anyone.

 

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Most of what you have there is on my list too. Covering the patches is only a waste of time if people didn't still ask about them. A number of users prefer the work-arounds to get the CD's working. So in the vain of being comprehensive, all that should go in IMO.

I was just working on the short, minimum list. You will, ofc, know much more about the rest of what one would want since I'm not yet familiar with it other than what I've read about. Anyhow, it's nearly my bedtime and I do work thru the week. I'll pop on in the mornings and evenings and help where I can. Also, I'll send you a PM and see if that goes thru.

[rsc204 21,855]

11 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Nope. I've deliberately checked every half hour or so. Still nothing there. I even clicked on go to inbox. I did delete our prior two-post conversation earlier. Could I have done something that blocked you? And if I did, would it tell you that when you send a PM to me?

Perhaps that's the problem. I replied to the previous message. So if you deleted it already, who knows what would happen!

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Oh. Right. Maybe it was the dependencies for SPAM. I've been reading and downloading bunches and bunches (and bunches) of stuff that I might want to use and I've prolly confused it with NAM. I'll edit that out of my post so it doesn't confuzzle anyone.

The NAM is a standalone mod. From the outset it was decided that it should not contain dependencies. Anything is does contain is distributed with the main installer package.

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I was just working on the short, minimum list. You will, ofc, know much more about the rest of what one would want since I'm not yet familiar with it other than what I've read about. Anyhow, it's nearly my bedtime and I do work thru the week. I'll pop on in the mornings and evenings and help where I can. Also, I'll send you a PM and see if that goes thru.

Well perhaps, odd that on the other side of the world we're both at bedtime! Once you see the list I have put together, I'm sure you'll have a chuckle at the similarities :D.

[CorinaMarie 29,852]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Perhaps that's the problem. I replied to the previous message. So if you deleted it already, who knows what would happen!

The NAM is a standalone mod. From the outset it was decided that it should not contain dependencies. Anything is does contain is distributed with the main installer package.

Well perhaps, odd that on the other side of the world we're both at bedtime! Once you see the list I have put together, I'm sure you'll have a chuckle at the similarities :D.

Yeah, I bet that's what caused the problem. I also got your reply with that first answer in my email and saved it there. I was just tidying up my inbox. I have no idea what the limit is here. (On that other game site it's 50 messages total so I'm in the habit of deleting old stuff rather quickly.) The new PM convo is ok now as you'll see in the morning.

Very good to know about NAM. I definitely like the idea it's a standalone program.

Yep. There are obvious similarities. The list (and linkys) I sent you are prolly more than we'd want in the guide. My note file just kinda turned into a list of my packratness as I downloaded any and all things I thought I might want at some point. It'll prolly also show why I want the Newcomers guide before I actually do any of the installs. As a side note, I really want to be a part of this cause I feel writing about how to get my game setup like it ought to be will be a good way to learn it. Kinda like that saying in Richard Bach's book, Illusions. "You teach best what you most need to learn."

 

edit: Oh, and I'd like to deliberately be guided thru installing something that borks the game, show and describe that, and then show how to fix it. I feel that'd be really useful cause peeps are going to wind up doing it. Maybe, just maybe, if we handle it in the guide it'll cut down a bit of frustration for them.

[philforhockey51 4,216]

This should be useful 

my strongest suggestion to anyone new to the game is take it slow try things out test and then start thinking about creating the cities of your dreams, with so much content out there a lot is possible, just best to understand the possibilities before moving forward with them.  Example: beyond getting all patched up, start with the NAM but don't download the whole thing, there are many different parts and options so say start with rail and then after playing with it consider the HSR or BTM. Only the basics of RHW not every level etc. The NAM takes some practice but end results will be worth it. Don't forget slope mods(this can get tricky be sure to look around and read first). Then you'll probably want to look into some visual mods such as, Water Mods, Terrain Mods, Rock Mods, etc. which will give you a different look to those general game items. After that there are 18,000 plus files so it's up to you.    Hope you folks enjoy the game as much as I do, it takes some work but it's worth it.

[rsc204 21,855]

Agreed. I took a year before I moved on from the Vanilla game. Until then, I mostly was getting the hang of the systems need to make everything work, including regional play.

After that, maybe 6 months playing with the NAM, getting familiar with it all. Then I fell into modding and no longer have time to play :).

[HawkDawg 12]

On 3/27/2016 at 5:14 PM, CorinaMarie said:

A very good point. I realize now I had an ill-conceived idea of writing something specifically for someone who has a good-enough-but-antique rig like mine. I'm running XPSP3 and using the CD version of the game.

I am also running the disk version on XP SP3. As a newbie to this game myself I think this guide would be invaluable, whether someone is using the disk version or the download version.

I do think both versions should be  addresses though.

It would also be helpful to include the actual name of mods instead of just the acronym, to make searching for it on websites easier. Of course links would be ideal but with a proper searchable name, probably not needed.

That said, I believe the acronyms should also be included because they're used extensively thought the forms; most times without the acronym BBCode, which can make things a little harder for newbies.

[CorinaMarie 29,852]

6 hours ago, HawkDawg said:

I am also running the disk version on XP SP3. As a newbie to this game myself I think this guide would be invaluable, whether someone is using the disk version or the download version.

I do think both versions should be  addresses though.

I'm pretty sure that's what rsc has in mind. Like with applying the two major patches which only the disk version peeps would need to know.

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It would also be helpful to include the actual name of mods instead of just the acronym, to make searching for it on websites easier. Of course links would be ideal but with a proper searchable name, probably not needed.

That said, I believe the acronyms should also be included because they're used extensively thought the forms; most times without the acronym BBCode, which can make things a little harder for newbies.

I googled searched each and every fix I could find as I learned about them in various threads I read. I sent him a notepad file that has the exact name as listed on the individual STEX download page and included the URL for it. This will allow for the ideal, currently unbroken maskable links to be posted in the guide. We'll just have to wait and see what he comes up with for the rest of it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

This seems to be a very worthwhile project.  Perhaps when you get it done you could create a new thread and pin it.  RSC has enough privilege to do that.

A useful addition to the project would be a note that the forum index is available by simply clicking on the Forums tab in the page header.

[CorinaMarie 29,852]

On 3/30/2016 at 9:31 AM, A Nonny Moose said:

This seems to be a very worthwhile project.

Such kind words does my heart good.

And, yes, I believe that makes at least 3 of us with this opinion. Current status is: We have 3x PM convos about it at the moment. Two are still active where we've been fleshing out the text and pics for the how-to-patch (or whatever its final section name'll be) and the other is the intro part. rsc also has a bunch of techy notes via a different editor.

We are both quite busy with that annoying RL stuff thru the weekdays. As a pair of imperfect perfectionists (or, maybe it's just me who meets the imperfect criterion ), we intend to present the community with the best possible guide to get SC4D stabilized and ready to play and/or install even more stuff. I envision this particular guide will describe the absolute minimum one would want before adding the gazillion other cool things available.

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, I hope you have reviewed the pinned thread: https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/43754-for-the-eager-yet-overwhelmed-newcomer/

It has been around for a while and probably needs updating.  And certainly a collected list of bug fixes would be a nice enhancement.

RL is starting to intrude on me, even though I am retired.  I am being scheduled for major surgery soon.  "Cancer can be beaten."

[HawkDawg 12]

I wish you all the luck in your fight against cancer Nonny. I have a very, very close friend fighting this enemy right now, but he's stuck in the US Veterans Administration, which is a joke, and he's not really getting the treatment he needs. I hope the Canadian system works better.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

The medical system up here is just as jammed up as anywhere.  Here it is Easter, and all that's happened so far is every test known to man and some discussion of whether I want to risk the surgery.  Finally got them to schedule the pre-op. physical sometime soon.  It's all in how you hold your mouth.

But on the subject, this game is totally subjective on the question of "doing it right".  As long as you get to the full version (1,1,640 or 1,1,641) what you do after that is get all the fixes, then do your own thing.

[Compdude787 916]

On 3/31/2016 at 7:41 AM, A Nonny Moose said:

Well, I hope you have reviewed the pinned thread: https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/43754-for-the-eager-yet-overwhelmed-newcomer/

Yeah, that's a pretty nice guide. It really helped me when I was new, and if you haven't already taken a look at it, I strongly suggest you do so.