Hundreds of Cims ditching cars around city

[ausa07 66]

The problem:

In my city, Cims drive places (to work, home, a park, school, etc) and park either on the street or in off-street parking spaces, as they should.  Once they are ready to leave to go somewhere, they get in their car, which is where the problem begins.  Some of them drive to their destination without an issue. However, a good portion of them will get in the car and become "confused".  Their cars will stay confused for at least 15 seconds, after which the Cims will teleport to their destination, effectively leaving their car behind and never returning to it (because they have no way of getting back to their car).

Over time, the amount of cars ditched throughout the city start becoming noticeable as there is ditched cars everywhere taking up all the parking spaces in my city. Cims that abandoned their cars are then no longer able to go places as they become confused at wherever they teleported and don't even teleport to their destination thereafter.

I've attached photos, which shows what I am talking about.

 

Attempted solutions: 

Currently, I have to remove to remove each abandoned car manually (using the Remove Stuck Vehicles mod), which is gamebreaking because in the course of an hour I am having to remove hundreds of ditched cars and the only way I can tell if it is a ditched car is by clicking on every parked car on the map.  What’s even more frustrating is that the Remove Stuck Vehicles mod, which is supposed to remove confused cars immediately, fails to do so.

I also tried enabling and disabling the No Despawning option in Traffic Manager President Edition with no luck.

I know it’s not due to Cims not having a path home because I’ve checked that all roads lead to somewhere and that there are no one-way dead ends, etc.

I’ve searched the internet painstakingly for weeks and can't seem to find else with this problem.  My game is heavily modded so I’m confident it’s a mod causing the issue but I am having trouble pinning down which one is causing it.  To pin down the issue, I’d have to: (1) start the game vanilla; (2) add one mod at a time, and; (3) start a new city each time and grow it for a while then check if any vehicles are being ditched.  This would take forever for me to do and would be difficult for me to confirm with 100% certainty which mod is the culprit, which is why I am turning to the community for answers.  My hunch is it is either the 81 tiles mod or an AI altering mod such as Rush Hour, TMPE, etc., though it really could be anything. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, since I’ve gotten no help on the issue from the Steam community and it would save me lots of time troubleshooting if someone already knows a solution to this problem.  In the meantime, I will continue to try and find out what is causing the issue (though my time is very limited being a uni student and working).  Thanks!

[Turjan 1,048]

That looks like a tricky issue, as it seems very hard to detect. I guess if there are other people with this problem, they simply won't notice.

14 hours ago, ausa07 said:

My hunch is it is either the 81 tiles mod or an AI altering mod such as Rush Hour, TMPE, etc., though it really could be anything.

In principle, those are all good guesses. I guess Rush Hour is the easiest to just try and remove. I had to do that because of other game-breaking bugs (commercial ceased to take anything from industry, industry abandoned because it had to export everything, with related traffic issues).

[Judazzz 1,936]

Not a permanent fix but one that does give you some breathing room is to upgrade roads containing abandoned cars to a type that doesn't allow road side parking, and then reverting it back - that should at least clear all the cars that have been abandoned on the road side (although that would move them to available parking spots of nearby assets, so basically it just moves the problem elsewhere). You could then subsequently re-plop those assets with parking spots, but again, that's just a temporary fix which leaves the underlying problem unaddressed.

[ausa07 66]

On 2/15/2016 at 11:41 AM, Turjan said:

That looks like a tricky issue, as it seems very hard to detect. I guess if there are other people with this problem, they simply won't notice.

In principle, those are all good guesses. I guess Rush Hour is the easiest to just try and remove. I had to do that because of other game-breaking bugs (commercial ceased to take anything from industry, industry abandoned because it had to export everything, with related traffic issues).

Yes very tricky indeed and I agree, I think most people wouldn't notice this issue hence no one really bringing it up.  Currently I had to delete all my city saves and the map they were based on because somehow my map file became corrupted.  I haven't gotten around to starting a new city yet but I when I do I will use it as an opportunity to start fresh and see if I can replicate the problem and pin it down to a mod (if it is even a mod that is causing it).

On 2/17/2016 at 8:39 AM, Judazzz said:

Not a permanent fix but one that does give you some breathing room is to upgrade roads containing abandoned cars to a type that doesn't allow road side parking, and then reverting it back - that should at least clear all the cars that have been abandoned on the road side (although that would move them to available parking spots of nearby assets, so basically it just moves the problem elsewhere). You could then subsequently re-plop those assets with parking spots, but again, that's just a temporary fix which leaves the underlying problem unaddressed.

Thanks for the suggestion!  I have tried that before (mainly out of frustration haha) but as you said it doesn't solve the underlying problem.  Hopefully I can figure out what is causing it.

[ausa07 66]

UPDATE:  I've gone through and disabled (I didn't unsubscribe) each mod I had one by one (starting with suspect ones like 81 tiles, TMPE, rush hour, NExt, etc.) and started a new test city on a vanilla map every time I disabled a mod.  I did this until I had no mods left.  Every single time this issue persisted.  I even disabled all mods AND assets, verified integrity of local files, uninstalled and reinstalled and yet the issue still persisted.  I also did this on both my Mac and Windows OS too.

I still need to test and see if completely unsubscribing from mods and assets instead of merely disabling them in content manager fixes the problem but at this point it seems to most likely be an issue with the Cities Skylines game engine, which is a real shame.

 

I'd really appreciate it if someone could replicate this issue so that I know it's not just a problem with my individual game!!

I've attached a diagram of the test city I created to test the issue.  No mods or assets were used besides unlimited money and all milestones unlocked.  Do not create any public transport to force driving.  Residential, commercial, and industrial zones were segregated by substantial distance and only connected by freeways to make it impossible for a Cim to walk to each zone (car must be used).  Residential was also segregated by substantial distance from the university and only connected by freeways to make it impossible for a Cim to walk to the university or back to their house (car must be used).

The car ditching problem is particularly noticeable/exaggerated around universities, therefore that is the best area to look out for the problem.  Any Cim at any location can become confused and teleport out of their car though, never to return to their car again and forever be confused at home as there is no way they can walk to their destination as their destination is too far away and requires a car to get there.

Again, I'd really appreciate it if someone could take the time to replicate this issue.  If someone can replicate the issue in the vanilla game, then I'd say this bug is due to bad programming by CO and therefore they need to address it.

 

[rmjohnson144 39]

This is funny.  I could have had this issue since day 1 as I've always had lots of parked cars.

However, the most recent patch is bugged and this may be an issue from it.  or maybe been an issue from day 1 and has been exasperated by each patch.  Either way, I would have never known as partked cars should be normal and it never occurred to me to check if they behave properly.

[ausa07 66]

On ‎29‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 4:11 PM, rmjohnson144 said:

This is funny.  I could have had this issue since day 1 as I've always had lots of parked cars.

However, the most recent patch is bugged and this may be an issue from it.  or maybe been an issue from day 1 and has been exasperated by each patch.  Either way, I would have never known as partked cars should be normal and it never occurred to me to check if they behave properly.

That's part of my frustration.  If other people are indeed experiencing this issue, it would largely go undetected because ditched cars mix invisibly with other parked cars.  I only noticed it because I was curious as to why so many cars were piling up around my university. It wasn't until I started clicking on the congregation of cars to open up the information box that I saw the seriousness of the problem.

I wish more people knew about this problem.  I am trying to plead with the author of this mod (Remove Stuck Vehicles Updated for Snowfall) to fix the issue but he is telling me that the people are confused, not the cars.  To me, that makes no sense because the people are driving the car--it's not like they are separate entities.  That mod should remove the car before the cim teleports out of the car so that this issue is squashed... Alas it's frustrating there is no mod or official patch to fix this annoying issue.

I can't play this game anymore knowing that every Cim has a relatively high chance of becoming confused, ditching their car, and then being stuck at home and not going to work or other places for the rest of their lives.  Theoretically, if you run the simulation long enough (esp. if you have slow citizen ageing), less and less people will be driving anywhere possibly resulting in workplaces complaining of no workers, and in general, a less vibrant city.

[rmjohnson144 39]

Has the issue resolved itself since the patch that was released Wednesday?

[ausa07 66]

6 hours ago, rmjohnson144 said:

Has the issue resolved itself since the patch that was released Wednesday?

Yep I can confirm that after the patch this is still happening.  I started a new test city to make sure.  It would be helpful if someone could confirm that this is not just happening to me though.  I'm thinking of taking this issue to the Paradox forums.

[rmjohnson144 39]

 

On 2/15/2016 at 8:48 PM, ausa07 said:

 

I’ve searched the internet painstakingly for weeks and can't seem to find else with this problem.  My game is heavily modded so I’m confident it’s a mod causing the issue but I am having trouble pinning down which one is causing it.  To pin down the issue, I’d have to: (1) start the game vanilla; (2) add one mod at a time, and; (3) start a new city each time and grow it for a while then check if any vehicles are being ditched.  This would take forever for me to do and would be difficult for me to confirm with 100% certainty which mod is the culprit, which is why I am turning to the community for answers.  My hunch is it is either the 81 tiles mod or an AI altering mod such as Rush Hour, TMPE, etc., though it really could be anything. 

 

You don't need to take it to CO if you can get to step 1 and have no issues without any workshop items at all.  Absolutely no workshop items!

If you still have confused citizens, then report it to CO.  Otherwise test mods one by one until it disappears and you'll have the culprit.

 

I checked my maps and so far none have them that I can tell.  It's hard to check my 25-tile city.  Way too many roads.  lol  My other half dozen 9-tile and smaller maps have none.

I do not use the workshop at all.  My 25-tile cities allow me to remove the unlock mod afterwards and keeping my 25-tiles.  It's a one shot usage, but not sure of lingering effects.

You may want to pose this question to the Paradox forums for wider exposure to the issue.  There are lots of people there willing to help.

[ausa07 66]

14 hours ago, rmjohnson144 said:

 

You don't need to take it to CO if you can get to step 1 and have no issues without any workshop items at all.  Absolutely no workshop items!

If you still have confused citizens, then report it to CO.  Otherwise test mods one by one until it disappears and you'll have the culprit.

When I was laying out those steps and saying it would take forever to test it was because I suspected a mod or asset was the culprit.  Turns out it didn't long for me to figure out that it wasn't a mod or asset because one of the first things I did was test the game with absolutely no mods or assets enabled and the issue persisted (I even unsubscribed and used the noworkshop launch command). So I'm confident this is a game simulation issue at the fault of CO.

It's harder to spot the issue in larger cities if you don't know to look for it but basically around commercial, industrial, parks, and schools (esp. universities) that are not near residential zones are the best place to start.  That's why if someone makes a test city with the same layout I did (shown above) it should be easy to tell if they are having the issue.

I'm going to report it to Paradox/CO in their bugs & technical issue forums now since I doubt any of them will see it here.  I also hope the wider attention to this issue will have someone confirm this bug and/or pose a solution (if any).

[rmjohnson144 39]

Can you link your save game here.  Would probably be the fastest way to test.

[ausa07 66]

53 minutes ago, rmjohnson144 said:

Can you link your save game here.  Would probably be the fastest way to test.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/icrpwn7gbqd19cy/AADD9MOd_vzh-HRg8XpmofjVa?dl=0

File 1:  "TEST CITY before.crp" is the test city with infrastructure and zones laid out but before simulation was allowed to run (population 0).

File 2:  "TEST CITY after.crp" is the test city after the simulation was run (population exists, ditched cars already a problem)

Look specifically near the university, which is the easiest place to spot the problem (I pointed the area out with an arrow made out of trees lol).  You can click on a lot of the parked cars there and they will say the person is at home (because they teleported back home without their cars).  If you click around eventually you might get a Cim who is in their car at the university and is "Confused".  If you wait a few seconds, it will change from "Confused" to "At home".

The problem isn't limited to universities, however.  It happens pretty much anywhere a car can be parked where a Cim goes to visit, work, or study.  It also isn't limited to cities that have everything separated by highways or cities that lack transit either.  It happens in any city with any layout I make.  As long as there are Cims that drive and park, it will happen.

[rmjohnson144 39]

I ran the before save for a while, it seems fine in the long run.  The cars seem to leave.   I added parks and they even reported being at the park. I didn't run the after save yet.  I'll try that next.

Here's my video I made.  I hope it turns out.  It seems FRAPS recorded my video in 4k, instead of 1080p I set the game to.  It seems to use my desktop resolution instead of game resolution.  It is a bit laggy, but watchable.

 

 

[rmjohnson144 39]

I tried the after map and it seems they go from confused to at home and they aren't waking back up.  I've been waiting to see if they despawn when the cim dies?  Cims live 4-6 game years, so it could take a while to test that.  Maybe tomorrow, it's getting late.

Good luck.

-=Mark=-

[ausa07 66]

On 3/5/2016 at 0:24 AM, rmjohnson144 said:

I tried the after map and it seems they go from confused to at home and they aren't waking back up.  I've been waiting to see if they despawn when the cim dies?  Cims live 4-6 game years, so it could take a while to test that.  Maybe tomorrow, it's getting late.

Good luck.

-=Mark=-

Thanks for testing, I really appreciate it.  At least I know it's not just me having the problem.  I've also been wondering if their car despawns after the owner dies but I haven't waited long enough to see if it does.  Anyways there is hope... the author of the Remove Stuck Vehicles (Fixed for v1.3+) mod said they would look into addressing the issue  Still would be better if CO themselves addressed it though.  Too bad my post on the Paradox forums got no attention haha.

[rmjohnson144 39]

I played your city yesterday for a couple of hours, while waiting I was trying to balance the city a little.  Before I started, though, I wrote down the stuck cims on the streets.  I forgot about time and when I looked they were all gone and replaced by new cims.  5-years had passed as I was in x3 mode the whole time.

They seemed to be replaced by stuck cars as they all said they were home. 

In a maybe related issue, I know cims will teleport to work.  Maybe that is where they get confused?  or some other similar game mechanic.  Now the cims will start reporting they are moving around town after the vehicles get stuck and I can follow them by clicking on the parked car's owner name.  They indeed are walking, working, visiting, etc. So only the car itself is affected.  Cims themselves continue life as normal.  They just seem to walk or use mass-transit.

 

 

[FRAGzz 0]

I am also having the same issue and it just gets so annoying after the city gets super big. I hope CO can fix this.

I also seem to have another issue but I am sure it relates quite strongly with the one discussed here. Here is a video link to what happens with my save - https://youtu.be/AjrlmsaTe6w

[ausa07 66]

On 3/6/2016 at 0:12 PM, rmjohnson144 said:

I played your city yesterday for a couple of hours, while waiting I was trying to balance the city a little.  Before I started, though, I wrote down the stuck cims on the streets.  I forgot about time and when I looked they were all gone and replaced by new cims.  5-years had passed as I was in x3 mode the whole time.

They seemed to be replaced by stuck cars as they all said they were home. 

In a maybe related issue, I know cims will teleport to work.  Maybe that is where they get confused?  or some other similar game mechanic.  Now the cims will start reporting they are moving around town after the vehicles get stuck and I can follow them by clicking on the parked car's owner name.  They indeed are walking, working, visiting, etc. So only the car itself is affected.  Cims themselves continue life as normal.  They just seem to walk or use mass-transit.

 

 

The author of the Remove Stuck Vehicles mod has added an option to remove the ditched cars automatically.  While it does not fix the cause of why cars are doing this, it at least quells the issue of having cars left abandoned everywhere for the most part.  Only issue I have notices thus far with using that mod is that it causes my cruise ships to spawn and disappear every one second at its port infinitely.  EDIT:  This seems to actually have been caused by a bug in TM:PE, which has since been fixed. I know another person using that mod reported trains waiting at stations despawn too, though I have not tested that yet.

Interesting that your residents go to work though.  Mine would just stay stuck at home until they died.  They wouldn't walk or take mass transit.

On 3/21/2016 at 3:51 AM, FRAGzz said:

I am also having the same issue and it just gets so annoying after the city gets super big. I hope CO can fix this.

I also seem to have another issue but I am sure it relates quite strongly with the one discussed here. Here is a video link to what happens with my save - https://youtu.be/AjrlmsaTe6w

I hope CO fixes it too though I don't think they even take notice.  Oh well.  Also I thought I read somewhere a certain mod can cause "flying cars" to happen like in your video though I can't remember which it was.

  Edited April 3, 2016 by ausa07  

[FRAGzz 0]

2 hours ago, ausa07 said:

The author of the Remove Stuck Vehicles mod has added an option to remove the ditched cars automatically.  While it does not fix the cause of why cars are doing this, it at least quells the issue of having cars left abandoned everywhere for the most part.  Only issue I have notices thus far with using that mod is that it causes my cruise ships to spawn and disappear every one second at its port infinitely.   I know another person using that mod reported trains waiting at stations despawn too, though I have not tested that yet.

Interesting that your residents go to work though.  Mine would just stay stuck at home until they died.  They wouldn't walk or take mass transit.

I hope CO fixes it too though I don't think they even take notice.  Oh well.  Also I thought I read somewhere a certain mod can cause "flying cars" to happen like in your video though I can't remember which it was.

Damm, I hope you remember!!

[rmjohnson144 39]

That's odd your cims just stay home.  I look at all parked cars, and they should say studying or something school related, all others means cims are gone.   I have them going to all random places.  Even parks.  I find most of them at home, maybe cause of unemployment or something?

Does the mod affect the game play at all?  I mean does cim agents go up?  traffic agents go down?

Right now, my agent limit is at 64k max as well as 16k traffic agents.   My lag is bad, well, my x3 and x2 speed don't work anymore from the overload.  

I'm gonna have to focus on mass-transit I think.  Mass-transit is poorly designed in my city.  It has gotten worse after bulldozing the Hadron Collider as it seems to interfere with employment.   I had 20% unemployed and now after plopping schools everywhere, I'm at 2% unemployment.

I had to revert back to a pre-christmas save so my pop is now under 450k instead of almost 600k.

Sorry for straying off subject, just trying to figure out how to lower my agents to get my city growing properly.  Probably just an imbalance city wide from getting employment on track.  I'm sure demand is pulling in all direction and all districts in all 25 tiles.