U.S.A. 2016 General Election

[LexusInfernus 908]

9 hours ago, MilitantRadical said:

Huh? You've turned things inside out here. You can't be 100% sure a policy you support is fiscally responsible, but that isn't an excuse to just spend, spend, spend and wait until something goes wrong. Just because there are uncertainties doesn't mean something is a false promise. A government can fail at being fiscally responsible just like they can fail at any number of things. Fiscal responsibility ≠ spending no money. It isn't the promise of spending no money, it is the promise of spending better and spending less.

That is a pretty useless promise if no one is promising that they will spend more and worse. This promise, this argument, only makes sense when used to attack existing policy or the policy promises of others. Inherently it means nothing itself though. 

And to bring it back to the elections, isn't this what Sanders is essentially promising? The current way elections work costs millions of dollars and has seriously compromised the integrity of American politics. His promises of campaign finance reform are as fiscally responsible as you can get, literally promising to go after the waste of millions of dollars and end a major attack vector for lobbyists, which should decrease the influence of big corporations on lawmakers and the resulting waste caused by loopholes for corporations. 

9 hours ago, MilitantRadical said:

You don't go and do surgery on a perfectly healthy person. You don't give medicine to someone who isn't sick. 'Cutting' as a measure of fiscal responsibility is a medicine, it is a surgery. Obviously you don't suggest doing it until something is wrong. But you do try to give advice and create policies with the goal of mitigating disaster in mind

It requires that something be wrong first, yes. You can't have a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Of course the doctor will tell you don't smoke or you'll get cancer and the fiscally responsible person will say "don't overspend or you'll go broke", but once it has been done, once the patient is sick, then you have to go in there and operate. Yes, if you take out the vital organs they will die, the body has to maintain its functions, but you have to take out the cause of the disease.

The policies and programs people are suggesting to 'cut' don't have unknown results. It's already quantifiable. Yes if you want to achieve less spending you have to evaluate the policies you have and cut/improve them if they're not efficient. That is the goal (ideal) of fiscal responsibility.

Yes, but I'm contending the notion that the US government is 'sick' when it comes to its debt. Its cause for concern, sure, but there is still plenty of time to address this. Operating isn't necessary yet. 

2 hours ago, Duke87 said:

Bribery in the traditional sense is rare and highly frowned upon in the US, but we have plenty of classier forms of corruption all over the place. See: every industry lobbyist that gets laws written in a way that protects the interests of large companies instead of protecting the interests of the general public.

I suppose it's fair to say that the system usually works as intended, but I do at times question its intentions.

Yes, but lobbying isn't illegal, so there is very little the civil service can do about it. As long as lobbyists follow the rules, and the rules are very lax, its difficult to do something about it. Furthermore, lobbyists target the political masters of the civil service more than they target the civil service itself. The bureaucracy is tasked with implementing and monitoring policy, it can't write the laws it has to implement and monitor. Thats the job of the politicians. So if they write in a lot of loopholes for big business, its both legal and not something a bureaucrat can do something about. 

It does create quite a bit of waste though. Perhaps thats something these fiscally responsible people can do something about? 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, how about one of the strongest lobbies, the NRA.  Does their influence on legislation cause harm to America?  It certainly helps the manufacturers of firearms, ammunition, and supplies foreign arms dealers.  Is war profitable?  Unequivocally, yes for arms suppliers.

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

I think the derision, condemnation and concern about Donald Trump is really overblown. Eight years ago, on the opposite end of the spectrum, Barack Obama was portrayed as this saviour this heroic figure. But that was not the reality, he was a president like anyone else given the political realities of the time. I'm sure Trump's rhetoric will come down a notch when, should he become President, he becomes acquainted with the countries nuclear launch codes and understands the immense responsibilities of the job.

I'm thinking of Tony Blair, a master of spin, and how he was reportedly white in the face after being instructed about the use of Britain's nuclear launch codes when he became prime minister.

Too much bombast, not enough emphasis on substance.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If Trump is elected, I'd like to be a fly on the wall during his first security briefing.

[krbe 193]

17 hours ago, Ln X said:

I think the derision, condemnation and concern about Donald Trump is really overblown. Eight years ago, on the opposite end of the spectrum, Barack Obama was portrayed as this saviour this heroic figure. But that was not the reality, he was a president like anyone else given the political realities of the time.

The man is not a politician, that's the problem. It's not like the US isn't full of established politicians worse than Donald Trump.

One of Mr Trump's major failings is that he's built for the screaming matches that takes place in board rooms, where you don't worry about any politicians. Think about his 'Muslim ban' for example. A 'temporary ban on the entry of Muslim until such time that the US can be sure that those that are admitted are not a security problem'. A blanket ban sure is an extreme measure, but is it necessarily racist? Is it that much worse than the permanent exclusions from even American airspace thousands upon thousands of people suffer merely because they share a name with the alias of some guy that might or might not be a terrorist?

17 hours ago, Ln X said:

I'm sure Trump's rhetoric will come down a notch when, should he become President, he becomes acquainted with the countries nuclear launch codes and understands the immense responsibilities of the job.

And then, he nukes Denmark. Vote Cruz!

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

2 hours ago, krbe said:

The man is not a politician, that's the problem. It's not like the US isn't full of established politicians worse than Donald Trump.

One of Mr Trump's major failings is that he's built for the screaming matches that takes place in board rooms, where you don't worry about any politicians. Think about his 'Muslim ban' for example. A 'temporary ban on the entry of Muslim until such time that the US can be sure that those that are admitted are not a security problem'. A blanket ban sure is an extreme measure, but is it necessarily racist? Is it that much worse than the permanent exclusions from even American airspace thousands upon thousands of people suffer merely because they share a name with the alias of some guy that might or might not be a terrorist?

And then, he nukes Denmark. Vote Cruz!

Can't be any worse than Dubya throwing dartboards upon the map of the world to pick which country would join the axis of evil.

<Bremner, Bird and Fortune comedy sketch on Channel 4>

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

SC doesn't seem to have felt the Bern.

And now for Super Tuesday ...

[Sabretooth78 808]

That the poster child for the complaining receiver state doesn't get something is honestly no surprise.

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

Brian France and a few other drivers, have endorsed Donald Trump. This is the same Brian France who objected to having fans bring Confederate flags in the infield at NASCAR Races. This is the same Brian France that created the "Drive for Diversity program that gives Female, Black, and HISPANIC drivers a chance to make it in NASCAR.

 

Needless to say he's already ticked some of NASCAR's most important investors such as Camping World CEO Marcus Lemonis

and for those who are uneducated about Brian France, let me put it in terms people here can  understand. He's basically a brain damaged combo of Gary Bettman's bad decisions and Rodger Goodell's greed, with a pinch of Nepotism put in for good measure.

[Sabretooth78 808]

Celebrity endorsements usually annoy me.  I feel like it's usually something they do just to create a stir.  The ones I respect are the ones who do let you know that they have their convictions but at least don't push them.  I've always liked Billy Joel's attitude on the matter:  "People who pay for your tickets, I don't think they want to hear who you're going to vote for and how you think they should vote."

One thing I do have to give Mr. Bankruptcy credit for is that he apparently realizes that America is no longer (or perhaps soon enough will no longer be) great.  It's about time the republicans stopped fiddling while Rome burned.  Cynical me just says it's a jab because he's butthurt that a black man is president, because he wasn't beating that drum when mentor Dubya was driving the car further into the ditch.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I have asked this before, but whatever happened to the American ideal of civilized debate, advise and consent?  Republicans are trying to wag the dog with respect to appointments to SCOTUS, Congress seems to be a hung jury, and there is a mountebank running for President who might just win.  There is just too much partisanship and not enough Americanism. 

Is the me generation turning America into a third world country?

[krbe 193]

57 minutes ago, Sabretooth78 said:

One thing I do have to Mr. Bankruptcy credit for is that he apparently realizes that America is no longer (or perhaps soon enough will no longer be) great.  It's about time the republicans stopped fiddling while Rome burned.  Cynical me just says it's a jab because he's butthurt that a black man is president, because he wasn't beating that drum when mentor Dubya was driving the car further into the ditch.

Empires come and go -- and in the last hundred years, that trend has accelerated. 

[Sabretooth78 808]

24 minutes ago, A Nonny Moose said:

Is the me generation turning America into a third world country?

Quite possibly.  But I don't think it's a generation in the usual sense, per se, because its ignorance seems to spread evenly across the entire spectrum of the population.

That's funny you mention that because after watching many videos in the "Hitler Rants Universe" on YouTube (hilarious unless I suppose you speak fluent German and don't get that it's a joke in which case it would just be incredibly confusing) I finally watched the actual movie most of those clips are taken from, Der Untergang (Downfall).  The movie is in German and while I studied it in high school, let's face it I can't really pick it up in speech.  There are English subtitles, however; though as I understand they're not incredibly good.  Anyway, at one point one of Hitler's lines is to the effect that the Allies should be thanking him for attacking Russia because "they're decadent and will be overrun" or something like that.  Not entirely within context as he was referring to Marxism, but perhaps what we're facing now is even more insidious.  Fegelein!

[krbe 193]

2 minutes ago, Sabretooth78 said:

Anyway, at one point one of Hitler's lines is to the effect that the Allies should be thanking him for attacking Russia because "they're decadent and will be overrun" or something like that.  Not entirely within context as he was referring to Marxism, but perhaps what we're facing now is even more insidious.

Not that I've seen der Untergang with English subs, but it sounds like there's a disconnect between the (1940s) German use of words and modern English (and indeed Western civilsation as a whole). For the US in specific, the growth of black culture was seen as especially decadent.

Culture -- and its opposite, decadence -- is incredibly important in the battle for the future. In the US, you can for example see this in how the universities have become battlegrounds; on the political side, the whole issue of abortion, which seems to be an either-or issue in the US.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The whole issue of political correctness and modifying historical aspects indicates that many individuals don't have enough to do and that the universities have become a kind of playground for idle speculation.  Perhaps more of the students should be working rather than playing.  The curriculum needs to be stiffened up to cut down on free time.  It is, perhaps, a symptom of automation of writing and other computerized tools that make putting papers together easier and less time-consuming.

Meanwhile, speaking of the election, how much of the student body is eligible to vote?  How many will?  How many will follow the lead of Mom and Dad?  How many will make up their own minds (if any)?

[LexusInfernus 908]

3 hours ago, A Nonny Moose said:

Is the me generation turning America into a third world country?

Don't you blame this on the Millenials as well, because they are not the ones voting for Cruz or Trump. Millenials get blamed for every other problem that was caused by previous generations as well. We don't work hard enough because we have more trouble finding jobs in the current economy, we don't save enough for later when we barely make enough money to pay for the costs of living, we are supposedly lazy and entitled when we grew up during a time when everywhere social security is getting stripped and we have to make ourselves worth it thanks to the economy. We are the ones that are inheriting the mess the previous generations created and then those previous generations have the gall to blame us for not instantly fixing it. 

8 minutes ago, A Nonny Moose said:

The whole issue of political correctness and modifying historical aspects indicates that many individuals don't have enough to do and that the universities have become a kind of playground for idle speculation.  Perhaps more of the students should be working rather than playing.  The curriculum needs to be stiffened up to cut down on free time.  It is, perhaps, a symptom of automation of writing and other computerized tools that make putting papers together easier and less time-consuming.

I find your accusations that people who go to uni have nothing better to do rather shortsighted. The results of critical interaction with history are  not due to laziness but due to a more developed and more inclusive sense of social justice. Its political activism that can only occur when people have been given the knowledge and mental tools to look back at history and notice that somethings are messed up, and then have the balls to tell it to those in power. Previous generations were all for fighting the power when they did it, but when this generation does it, its suddenly a sign of laziness, entitlement and the idea that people aren't studying hard enough. 

This btw, is why so many old people are voting Trump. They fear the idea that white people are losing some of their privilege and the 'rise' of minorities as ever more important sociopolitical groups within society. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If I was a citizen of the United States, at the moment I'd sit tight.  There is no clear candidate on either side.  I am certainly not attracted to The Donald who seems to bend the way the wind blows, nor am I attracted to any of the Latino Republican Candidates.  I feel that the G.O.P. needs to clean house or soon die of its own overblown rhetoric.  The Democrats are, phew -- blowing the sea spray off his face --, the Democrats.  Maybe a high tide will dissolve some of the fishy mud.

As for blaming the millennials for anything, how can they be blamed?  Most of them haven't even been around long enough to vote and won't be until the next election.  The millennials are like the late 20th century people:   Trapped in an industrial revolution they didn't make, and pushed into strange positions by parents who are simply baffled by what's happening to them.  The instant communications overload era has caused a vast dislocation that society has not yet either embraced nor understood, but is trying to regulate for all the wrong reasons.  If there is any blame to be handed out it is the property of the people who rush into things like the Internet without really understanding what is going on, especially behind the scenes.  This whole era of instant communications world wide is a huge information overload that mankind is really not prepared to cope with as yet.  The attempts to cope are on going, but I think it will be another couple of decades before things really settle down.

The comfortable pew is now a thing of prehistory.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

America's problems are not caused by any one generation but rather the general culture spread by mass media and social media. Members of all generations are affected by this decadent force.

 

I truly want Sanders to be president. If he becomes Clinton's running mate, he will replace her when she is indicted. Clinton is backed by enough corporations that she should win by a landslide according to late 20th century politics. However, social media has changed things.

[Sabretooth78 808]

Meh.  Hillary will be indicted when Bush, Obama and soon Hillary are charged with war crimes.

[GreekMan 246]

she will be indicted when trump becomes president! 

i really cant wait to see the face of obama looking at trump on inauguration day haha.

trump will hit hillary hard. i dont think she will do well. she will play the gender card at every chance she gets. trump treats women equally in his organization. he is just as hard on women as he is on men. so you cant give me any BS that he hates women. all he has to say is, what kind of a woman stands by her cheating husband...she has no self respect for her. sure trump has had marriage issues but the clintons are just fake... fake people...fake laugh, fake everything.

 

EDIT: as far as debates go and all the name calling. i find it amusing. it shows these candidates as human. they arent do the normal 30 sec memorized lines like Rubio did a few weeks ago. i like comedian rubio. its a different side to him. 

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

2 hours ago, LexusInfernus said:

Its political activism that can only occur when people have been given the knowledge and mental tools to look back at history and notice that somethings are messed up, and then have the balls to tell it to those in power. Previous generations were all for fighting the power when they did it, but when this generation does it, its suddenly a sign of laziness, entitlement and the idea that people aren't studying hard enough.

The problem is that the 'millennials' are fighting phantoms. They are Don Quixotes tilting at windmills. They're like soldiers still fighting a war they don't know is over. Previous generations had actual oppression to fight against. Now it's just first world problems. College rape epidemic/rape culture - myth, wage gap -- actually an earnings gap, homophobia - rare, systemic racism - exaggerated.

Just look the crazed 'millennials' in BLM inspired protests at Universities like Missouri, Yale, or Claremont McKenna, where they're grasping at straws to invent racism as a way to whip up racially polarizing frenzies.

At Missouri they were protesting because someone allegedly yelled the n-word from a red pick up truck at they gay black student body president, off campus, and because someone allegedly drew a swastika out of feces. That same student body president later claimed that he spotted KKK on campus, but it later turned out that wasn't true. They demanded the President of the Missouri system step down and write and hand written letter admitting his "white male privilege". A hand written letter!

At Yale they were mad at that professor because his wife wrote an e-mail response to their objection to Halloween costumes. Read that e-mail, it's a thoughtful and respectful response and then compare that to the video of the girl at Yale I linked above. It's a totally disproportionate response and the it is so hostile because these social justice indoctrinated millennials are spoiling for a fight. They find offense in everything because they're neurotically obsessed with oppression fantasies. They need to be oppressed, they want it, because it confirms their world view.

At Claremont they just seemed to do it because everyone else was on the bandwagon of demanding 'safe spaces' (i.e. segregated spaces for black students). The best part in that Claremont video is when an Asian girl steps up to the mic to say that white people can be good and that she was attacked with racial slurs by a group of black guys. Watch how the crowd reacts to that. Also notice how they can't point to any real incidents of racism.

These aren't isolated events either. These social justice flavored millennials are constantly trying to shut down people's ability to speak. There's a reason they're accused of being anti-free speech, it's because they are. They can't stand people with alternate viewpoints. Look at all those incidents where they try to disrupt conservative or MRA speakers at Universities. Now, they're perfectly within their rights to do so, but it reveals their authoritarian character and inability to hear out opposing viewpoints. Notice how it's only these types of millennials doing this. You don't see it happening the other way around. You don't see conservative millennials trying to shut down liberal events, you don't see MRAs trying to shut down feminist events. Why? Who really has the institutional power here?

4 hours ago, LexusInfernus said:

This btw, is why so many old people are voting Trump.

A lot of young people are voting for Trump too.

4 hours ago, LexusInfernus said:

They fear the idea that white people are losing some of their privilege and the 'rise' of minorities as ever more important sociopolitical groups within society. 

Not the white cis gendered male privilege...

[krbe 193]

30 minutes ago, GreekMan said:

sure trump has had marriage issues but the clintons are just fake...

What kind of a man violently assaults* his wife for being a dumbass when selecting a plastic surgeon? How come a loser that can't pick surgeons and can't manage a marriage should be fit to run one of the biggest countries on Earth?

*His wife at the time alleged raped, although later reduced to 'violation', possibly because Mr Trump's lawyer is of the opinion that spouses can't be raped.

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

13 minutes ago, krbe said:

*His wife at the time alleged raped, although later reduced to 'violation', possibly because Mr Trump's lawyer is of the opinion that spouses can't be raped.

Or because he's of the opinion vindictive ex-wives can lie.

[LexusInfernus 908]

9 minutes ago, MilitantRadical said:

The problem is that the 'millennials' are fighting phantoms. They are Don Quixotes tilting at windmills. They're like soldiers still fighting a war they don't know is over. Previous generations had actual oppression to fight against. Now it's just first world problems. College rape epidemic/rape culture - myth, wage gap -- actually an earnings gap, homophobia - rare, systemic racism - exaggerated.

To the people that live with those problems the fight to end them is real. Furthermore, its a fallacy to say that just because you deem a problem isn't as big as 'actual oppression' (whatever that means) its therefor not worth bothering with.

Also, while you pass off those problems as myths or 'rare' you are actually demonstrably wrong. They exist, they are problems, not small ones or rare ones and they are definitely not myths. If you want to ignore them because you feel they aren't real because you aren't affected by them, fair enough. But don't berate others when they do feel the need to address those problems. 

9 minutes ago, MilitantRadical said:

Just look the crazed 'millennials' in BLM inspired protests at Universities like Missouri, Yale, or Claremont McKenna, where they're grasping at straws to invent racism as a way to whip up racially polarizing frenzies.

At Missouri they were protesting because someone allegedly yelled the n-word from a red pick up truck at they gay black student body president, off campus, and because someone allegedly drew a swastika out of feces. That same student body president later claimed that he spotted KKK on campus, but it later turned out that wasn't true. They demanded the President of the Missouri system step down and write and hand written letter admitting his "white male privilege". A hand written letter!

At Yale they were mad at that professor because his wife wrote an e-mail response to their objection to Halloween costumes. Read that e-mail, it's a thoughtful and respectful response and then compare that to the video of the girl at Yale I linked above. It's a totally disproportionate response and the it is so hostile because these social justice indoctrinated millennials are spoiling for a fight. They find offense in everything because they're neurotically obsessed with oppression fantasies. They need to be oppressed, they want it, because it confirms their world view.

Another fallacy, cherry picking examples of protesters who seem a little extreme or who seem to be overreacting and use them as an excuse to pass off every student protester as being like that. Not that these protesters are actually extreme or make extreme points or grasping at straws, it just appears that way if you take their problems and remove the context. Sure, by itself all these little incidents that set off these protests seem small and insignificant, and by themselves its easy to wonder why anyone would bother getting upset about them. It does however start to make sense when you remember that its part of a larger pattern. No one would bother to protest over a swastika made of feces in front of some dorm filled with African American students (although the racist statement of the swastika should be obvious to everyone). But if you imagine that there have been tons of problems where African Americans are mistreated, ignored and discriminated against, well then you can imagine that at some point something as stupid as that will set people off. 

Perhaps rather than pretending that these people are all idiots getting worked up over nothing, having nothing better to do than spend thousands of dollars on a college and then whine about how awful it is, it is a good idea to listen what these people say and consider that they, as members of a minority community in America, have infinitely more experience with the racist elements of the United States that permeates nearly every aspect of American society. 

9 minutes ago, MilitantRadical said:

These aren't isolated events either. These social justice flavored millennials are constantly trying to shut down people's ability to speak. There's a reason they're accused of being anti-free speech, it's because they are. They can't stand people with alternate viewpoints. Look at all those incidents where they try to disrupt conservative or MRA speakers at Universities. Now, they're perfectly within their rights to do so, but it reveals their authoritarian character and inability to hear out opposing viewpoints. Notice how it's only these types of millennials doing this. You don't see it happening the other way around. You don't see conservative millennials trying to shut down liberal events, you don't see MRAs trying to shut down feminist events. Why? Who really has the institutional power here?

Excuse me? You mean aside from posting anonymous rape and death threats to the speakers at such events? Oh right, MRA's don't do that, it are feminists who do it so they can blame it on the MRA's and play the victim card. Aside from that, when have feminists actually shut down MRA events? Unless we are talking about the really hardcore MRA/PUA events where speakers advocate such lofty positions like how they should be able to rape women and whatnot. Yeah, Feminists can shut down those events for all I care, if you want to use your free speech to advocate such trash you deserve your event to be crashed by protesters. 

As for conservatives, well again I can't really think of enough examples where liberals managed to disrupt a conservative gathering. Maybe a handful of protesters show up at some of them, but I would hardly call that disruptive. Unless we go so far into conservatism that we end up somewhere near Fascism, in which case gatherings usually do attract protesters, but again thats perhaps because the people at those type of events have some very unpopular and disgusting opinions. 

Finally it appears there is some confusion over what free speech means. Free speech means just one thing and one thing only, namely that no government can tell you what you can say and not say. Everyone else is free to be as mean to you as they like if they disagree with your speech. So social pressure used in such a way to shut people up? Not actually a breach of anyones free speech. That by itself is actually covered by free speech. As long as the government doesn't tell MRA and conservative groups to shut up and ban them from gathering, their right to free speech is not breached. The argument that the free speech of these groups is threatened is actually just code for 'we don't like it when people disagree with us and criticize our opinions.' 

9 minutes ago, MilitantRadical said:

A lot of young people are voting for Trump too.

Sure, but Trump won't win any elections because hes so popular with the young votes. 

[krbe 193]

5 minutes ago, LexusInfernus said:

Not actually a breach of anyones free speech. That by itself is actually covered by free speech.

Opinions differ. To some, freedom of speech is the absence of prior censorship, but with no limits on legal responsibility. Generally, the trend is that human rights imply some form of positive protection; in the US see the Nazis of Skokie as an example of the related right of freedom to assembly. Freedom of speech requires police to protect usually small groups of right wing extremists to be physically separated by large gathering of left wing extremists.

In short, your own rights cannot be used as a justification for abridging others'.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Rights are granted according to the law and the mores of society.  Some people carry the idea around literally, and this turns from being rights into licentiousness.  Freedom of speech and expression does not include the freedom to damage anyone else.  Too many people think that freedom is free, but it is not.  Freedom must be protected by each of us from being abused by those who don't understand there is a difference between freedom and license.

[Sabretooth78 808]

3 hours ago, GreekMan said:

i really cant wait to see the face of obama looking at trump on inauguration day haha.

You might think so, but in reality it'll probably go down similar to the buddy-buddy nature between, say Dubya and Obama in 2008 or perhaps even more appropriately, Clinton and Dole back in 1996.  The way those two got along made it seem as though Bill Jeff had forgotten all about Monica.

What they show you during debates and photo ops is only but a facade.  Trump's bluster and rhetoric is as much of a Potemkin village surrounding a man as much as a failure in life as his 1930s Austrian/Bavarian protege.  History repeats and those who fail to learn are doomed to repeat it.

Besides, why would Obama care such as to have "a face"?  He didn't lose the election; he's term-limited.  He'll have one of the sweetest gigs on the planet - that of being a former POTUS, and a relatively young one at that.

 

Spoiler

Clearly the facial expression of a man who can't stand the man to his left.  Clearly acting.  Heck, they're practically dressed like twins.  For her part, Laura appears to despise her successor as well.

Spoiler

'Atta boy!  As the darkest man in this picture, I agree.

(Joe Biden:  "I wasn't paying attention.  What's everybody clapping about?  Shoot, I better start before I appear clueless.  Heh heh.  Yeah. What he said.")

Spoiler

Pictures such as these are not nearly as difficult to find as, say, pictures of one particular party showing "a face" in the others' company.

 

[MintberryCrunch 83]

Meh. California's primary is so late that it doesn't even matter how we vote by the time it comes around. Not that I'm old enough to vote, but man I wish I were...never paid so much attention to politics before this election. At least it bodes well for my ability to stay politically informed for the next election, when I will be old enough to vote. Kanye 2020!

And looks like Sanders will win 4 states, which is decent, but I would've hoped for more. 

[GreekMan 246]

^ yeah i know..the noms will have been chosen by the time the primary is in CA.....

 

idk i can just see obama being really sour behind closed doors and in front of cameras smiling and laughing...acting

[LexusInfernus 908]

9 hours ago, krbe said:

Opinions differ. To some, freedom of speech is the absence of prior censorship, but with no limits on legal responsibility. Generally, the trend is that human rights imply some form of positive protection; in the US see the Nazis of Skokie as an example of the related right of freedom to assembly. Freedom of speech requires police to protect usually small groups of right wing extremists to be physically separated by large gathering of left wing extremists.

In short, your own rights cannot be used as a justification for abridging others'.

Yeah, but similarly its not illegal for the large group of left wing counter protesters to stage their own rally right next to a Nazi rally. If the government then decides to physically separate the two, its 1) as much more a public security concern than a free speech one, they don't protect those Nazis because their right to free speech, they protect them because having two of those protests next to each other is a recipe for violence and 2) if they decide not to step in, they are not actually breaching their right to free speech. The government has no obligation to protect protesters from counter protesters. And, this happens more in Europe than in the US I think, its not uncommon that local governments ban protest marches by extremist groups because they can't guarantee the security of either the protesters or the risk to public security is simply to great. 

Fun little anecdote, when I was in Berlin a few years ago a bunch of Nazis were apparently staging a rally near the Alexanderplatz. There were about maybe a 150 people. Surrounding them were I guess 500 or more people all counter protesting them. And around them was a small army of riot police, standing by to stop anyone from starting a fight. It was an interesting thing to see.