U.S.A. 2016 General Election

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

I don't think Trump is as extreme as people are making him out to be. He does have a gift for oration and publicity, but so did Obama with the "hope and change" slogan. Rhetoric and slogans do not usually translate into actual political change. So if Trump is elected president I doubt he will do a quarter, even a tenth, of what he is claiming to do.

For starters the wall proposal between the USA and Mexico is really just connecting together various border fences/barriers which are scattered around. Also there is NAFTA, so whatever Trump is planning he must abide by NAFTA. Large parts of the border are kind of like a DMZ already with plenty of facilities to pick up illegal immigrants trespassing into USA territory.

And besides Trump is so obvious, everyone can see it a mile away so even if he decides to pass through legislation/amendments based around his more controversial ideas and opinions, he has a Senate, a Congress, a Democrat party and a nervous Republican party to contend with. In fact there will probably be more political deadlock; the kind Obama has faced so much.

And Trump is no worse than George Bush or Obama. Bush was defined by the War on Terror and all the shtick which goes with it. Bush was also a massive socialist to in terms of actual political actions- think the tax cuts. Obama has continued and expanded Bush's War on Terror which has caused an even bigger mess. Syria, Yemen, Iraq and Libya are focal points on the war on terror, they have never been in such a bad shape as they are now.

Now, one thing I really admire about Trump is his talk about working with the Russians. All this Cold War stuff with anti-missile shields and destabilised countries belongs to the 1980s, not today. It is sickening that BS has crept back in. Both Russia and the USA were messing around with Ukraine's politics; still are. The same applies with Syria to. Syria is really a battle for whether a planned Qatari gas pipeline becomes reality or not.

The US, protecting its petrodolla,r wants to keep its Middle-Eastern allies happy. A Qatari gas pipeline would cut into Gazprom and other Russian energy companies' monopoly on European energy exports. Russia doesn't want this and Syria, an ally of Russia, has consistently quashed Qatari plans for that gas pipeline for several years now. Funny enough the Syrian civil war has been going on for a similar length of time.

Perhaps Trump can find a way of repairing relations between the USA and Russia. If Trump is genuinely sincere about considering Russia an ally, it could potentially mean Russia warming up to the idea of joining NATO which would be the holy grail for nuclear disarmament. You can thank George Bush for backing out of the nuclear disarmament treaties, Obama has maintained this course and doubled-down with the installation of a missile-shield system in Eastern Europe. This is classic Cold War material and just to had to the sense of 1980's deja vu, the Saudi's are flooding the market with crude oil to keep prices low so as to make Russia bleed money. This worked in the 1980s when Russia, yes it was trading with the West- largely in oil, relied on oil exports. What the Saudis did in the 1980s bankrupted Russia and undoubtedly ended the Cold War. Maybe Trump will a put a stop to this and in one stroke also revive the US fracking industry which has contributed substantially to the economic recovery. The US benefits, Russia benefits...

Lastly Obama's legacy is probably one of immense long-term damage to the US's economy. The surge in government debt, the result of the war on terror and banking bailouts, will have to be paid back somehow. Now the US government and the Federal Reserve have committed to safeguarding every financial asset, even the immense financial derivative contracts where the liabilities could run into the tens of trillions, in a matter of a couple of years, if things go south.

The US's greatest asset is its economic freedom and the petrodollar which protects against inflation. This economic freedom translates into personal freedom. Flirting with a bankruptcy which could happen in the future could mean a real nasty tough spot for the US which could last ten or twenty years. Maybe Trump will show some sense and try to stem the constant rise in government debt. He's the only person who may just come close to doing that. So having a businessman, a tycoon, for president may just make some sense. I think Trump, more than anybody, understands the value of this economic freedom.

At worst Trump will just mean four years of political deadlock and plenty of hot air and venomous rhetoric. At best he may just be a blessing in disguise.

Finally my money is on Clinton winning, simply because she's a woman and it would be setting a precedent. But there is no guarantee of Clinton monoplising the female vote, the black vote, the hispanic vote and all the other minorities' votes. If Trump talks far more economic sense then he will win the presidential election. Money talks. Trump may just be the US' Maggie Thatcher. And believe me during that '79 election all kinds of bollocks were spoken about Thatcher- the rights of ethnic minorities would be curbed, the LGBT community would lose all the progress it had fought so hard to achieve and etc... The exact opposite happened.

 

Just my two cents.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

While you might cast aspersions on his business acumen, Der Donald is one heck of a public speaker.  The only thing missing from his rallies is the crowd yelling 'Sieg Heil'.

I expect Hillary will win the general election because it is better to vote for the devil you know rather than a totally inexperienced and unknown person for such a highly sensitive, world-influencing job.  At least four more years of the same old, same old.

Of course, the American voter could take this opportunity to clean out some of the sweet old boys in both houses of Congress.

[Delta 88 262]

Found a rather eye-opening video regarding the different sides of the political and cultural spectrum. This should offer insight into both the minds of Bernie and Trump supporters.

https://youtu.be/kLAgnAmXnh4

Things are not always as they seem. I can't believe I wasn't aware of those incidents until now.

[Sabretooth78 808]

5 hours ago, A Nonny Moose said:

Of course, the American voter could take this opportunity to clean out some of the sweet old boys in both houses of Congress.

As @Ln X mentioned a holy grail of nuclear disarmament, such would be the holy grail of meaningful reform in the US (real reform, not the "there's nothing worse than when a bad government tries to reform itself" stuff such as what happened with the USSR).  The recent years of power grabbing by the executive branch (which if left to their devices will only continue under Clinton or Trump) notwithstanding, that is where the key lies.  Thing is, everybody likes their guy while disapproving of the whole lot.  So we'll likely have either:

• A Clinton presidency which will look much like the current Congress vs. POTUS theatrics where constant deadlock occurs with only detrimental legislation being agreed upon (as per usual), or
• A Trump presidency where 80-90% of Congress opposes every move of the POTUS (think like today, only on steroids) along with the requisite partisan theatrics and an interesting veto override dynamic.  Some opportunistic slimeballs will kowtow to Trump, but they will probably be restricted to a minority.  Think guys of the Lindsey Graham, Jim Inhofe and Paul Ryan mold.

Theoretically, the latter could serve to strip some of the George W. Obama power grabs, which is something I hadn't thought of before...  Maybe it would teach Trump more about the Constitution than just the part about natural born citizens (which he doesn't even really understand).

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

An exercise in apologetics

Did anyone have the guts to stamp on the TEA partiers at the outset?  Maybe Republicans are just too liberal..

[Sabretooth78 808]

2 hours ago, A Nonny Moose said:

An exercise in apologetics

Did anyone have the guts to stamp on the TEA partiers at the outset?  Maybe Republicans are just too liberal..

At the outset, the Tea Party was an admirable movement - before the GOP co-opted it.  So really, it's just yet another example of their actions coming home to bite them in the tuchus.

Quote

In the primaries so far, he has averaged about 40 per cent of the Republican vote. So, a majority of his own party's members have so far opposed him.

Never underestimate the ability of republicans and their groupies to sell out their principles.  I believe Hillary will win, but it won't be because of today's anti-Trump republicans not voting for him in November.

The real wild card is Bernie.  He could cost her the election, and I believe he is the only thing that has that potential.

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

I'm moving back to Japan.  I've had about enough of this whole thing.

[Delta 88 262]

15 hours ago, Sabretooth78 said:

At the outset, the Tea Party was an admirable movement - before the GOP co-opted it.  So really, it's just yet another example of their actions coming home to bite them in the tuchus.

Never underestimate the ability of republicans and their groupies to sell out their principles.  I believe Hillary will win, but it won't be because of today's anti-Trump republicans not voting for him in November.

The real wild card is Bernie.  He could cost her the election, and I believe he is the only thing that has that potential.

I hadn't thought about that until recently - one of them needs to drop out by the end of June, or else the democratic vote could be split between them in November - costing both of them the election. Trump's already the only one left standing on the right, which is interesting since the incumbent is a democrat and the republicans have more leeway this election season. All Trump has to do now is pick a running mate. The republicans have to gather around him or they'll have no chance now.

But Clinton and Sanders still being in the game by the time July rolls around (National Convention month for the democrats and republicans) will surely splinter the democratic party and injure it all the way into November.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

^ I think you have the cart before the horse.  The whole point of the convention is to pick a candidate.  Candidacy should not be settled before either convention. 

What will the Republicans do now?  All they have left is the results of a wildfire that has swept the party moderates into the ashes of history.  Trump is unelectable, so they can expect to have at least four years to either dissolve or reform.  They need to crack down on all the extremism and get back to the principles of their greatest member (A. Lincoln, if you've forgotten).

[blade2k5 1,523]

On 10/29/2015 at 7:16 AM, A Nonny Moose said:

 

 

Got three candidates you can't trust.  First we have a lying, cheating, scandal ridden Hillary, then we have a socialist pig who promises free crap and then we have a blowhard businessman sticking it to the corrupt republicans (Dems are just as, if not more corrupt).  Who to vote for?  None of them are any better than that idiot we have in the WH now.  Sad really when politicians are the least trusted people nowadays.  

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind.  Write-in votes are still allowed are they not?  This will need some serious organization and a considerable effort to repudiate both the current political parties.  Revolutions don't need to be violent, just persistent.

I think it is clear by now that the Republican party is both morally and ideologically bankrupt, and pretty much the same can be said for the Democrats who are effectively sticking to a quo that has long since lost its status.

It is now up to the grassroots of the American people to fix this travesty.  Will they?  Is there anyone in the American public scene who would be a good chief executive and would accept the job?  It will have to be someone who is totally bullet proof.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

On 5/4/2016 at 1:37 PM, MilitantRadical said:

Without the pull and tug of disagreement, politics and people never move forward. People can change their minds. Heck, I've changed my mind. At the start of the election I hated Trump, really disliked the guy. Gotta say, he's grown on me. We need to have our ideas challenged or else we just become political amoeba.

Been thinking it might be Newt Gingrich since he was Speaker when Bill was Prez. However, maybe Gingrich is a bit too old, white, and male. Might wanna play the identity politics game.

Not sure if he could pick Paul Ryan or if he would even accept.

Disagreement and arguments help people to change and move, though sometimes the movement isn't forward...

"We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not downward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom."

I also changed my mind. I started with confidence in a Democratic victory and considered The Donald Trump a laughing stock with a firm belief that Hilary was disqualified. Now, I'm afraid it will be a close election between Hilary and The Donald Trump, with a risk of The End being triggered. I also realize that Hilary poses a good argument that some of her emails were miss-classified and that people will believe her when she says she isn't guilty.

[igotthis 12]

Not to sound too negative, but I think that anyone outside the US posting about candidates have no real clue about America's politics because it is not anything like Europe or Asia, or even Canada & Mexico, for that matter. Sure, you see some things that many Americans see, as well, and even the most conservative European is far, far left of our conservatives. It is not an easy thing to predict. I, personally, am a Bernie supporter and I will vote for him when CA comes to primary. However, I do not see him winning the nomination. Primaries are where you vote with your heart, the General is when you vote with your head. I will vote Blue, no matter who. Bernie and Hillary are not that different, in the long run. I don't really like the idea of another Clinton in office because I don't think families should have such control over a nation. George HW Bush, Bill Clinton, George W Bush, a break with Obama, now Hillary Clinton (she will win).

But I would never, ever vote for a Republican. They espouse small government, but want to control a woman's body, where a person can go to the bathroom, use but mistreat immigrants, make Social Security a private business, deny climate change, destroy America's countryside, and eat our children (okay, I made that one up). Anyway, screw Trump and Cruz and McConnell and Paul Ryan. They will send us back 50 years and then want to send us back another 50.

IGT

[_Michael 2,681]

8 minutes ago, igotthis said:

Not to sound too negative, but I think that anyone outside the US posting about candidates have no real clue about America's politics because it is not anything like Europe or Asia, or even Canada & Mexico, for that matter. Sure, you see some things that many Americans see, as well, and even the most conservative European is far, far left of our conservatives.

This hurts me inside.

The people commenting here, that live in the UK (like me), and any other country besides America are clearly well read on the subject.

You are clearly not aware of the level of news coverage your election is having not only in the UK, but worldwide. This is not just a US election, but arguably a global one. The news channels and newspapers have countlessly explained your democratic process, the candidates, their views and their policies. Election news from the US has been headline news on more than 2 dozen occasions, superseding domestic stories.

As for our political spectrum, yes I agree our Conservative Party (At least in the UK) is not as far right as yours, but is still a right-wing, conservative party. And if you want to go further right wing, the UK has UKIP, who achieved over 3 million votes in the 2015 GE (12%); the Tories only got 11 million by comparison (36%). I'm not sure about all other European countries, but I remember hearing in recent State and Local elections (I may be wrong here) in Germany, AfD (Alternative für Deutschland) made large gains. They are also a right wing party.

Any one can be informed, just as much as a US citizen. Granted, they don't have to live with all of the effects of whatever outcome (some decisions will have a global effect), but anyone, anywhere can be as informed, or more so than a member of the US electorate.

[igotthis 12]

6 minutes ago, michae95l said:

This hurts me inside.

The people commenting here, that live in the UK (like me), and any other country besides America are clearly well read on the subject.

You are clearly not aware of the level of news coverage your election is having not only in the UK, but worldwide. This is not just a US election, but arguably a global one. The news channels and newspapers have countlessly explained your democratic process, the candidates, their views and their policies. Election news from the US has been headline news on more than 2 dozen occasions, superseding domestic stories.

Well, sure! There is all sorts of news about it. In fact, I tend to only read international news, not our corrupted "get ratings higher" press. So while I see where you are coming from, I still cannot agree that you know anything about the States. For example, have you ever been here for more than a vacation? And if so, was it in New England or the Deep South or the Midwest or the West Coast? Or Alaska or Hawaii? You see, I don't pretend to know the politics of countries in Europe or Asia or South America and I do not judge what happens there. I may have an opinion, but my opinion means nothing to the people who live there. You see?

IGT

[_Michael 2,681]

5 minutes ago, igotthis said:

Well, sure! There is all sorts of news about it. In fact, I tend to only read international news, not our corrupted "get ratings higher" press. So while I see where you are coming from, I still cannot agree that you know anything about the States. For example, have you ever been here for more than a vacation? And if so, was it in New England or the Deep South or the Midwest or the West Coast? Or Alaska or Hawaii? You see, I don't pretend to know the politics of countries in Europe or Asia or South America and I do not judge what happens there. I may have an opinion, but my opinion means nothing to the people who live there. You see?

IGT

My Aunt and Uncle have lived in California for 17 years. They are dual citizens. (UK & US). I have visited them countless times in CA and been to the east coast as well recently. So having local knowledge passed on is quite helpful. 

[igotthis 12]

Just now, michae95l said:

My Aunt and Uncle have lived in California for 17 years. They are dual citizens. (UK & US). I have visited them countless times in CA and been to the east coast as well recently. So having local knowledge passed on is quite helpful. 

That's good! Yet realize that CA is not like other places. The East Coast is not like CA, although both tend to be more Liberal. What I call the Deep South is also different and has its own quirkiness. Florida is quite different from Georgia, which is quite different from Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas. I guess it might be like saying everyone in the UK is the same. York is like Norwich which is like Manchester which is like Southampton which is like London.

What I am trying to express here is that there are so many factors and behaviors in play that general judgments and categorizations are simply out of whack. In the beginning of this election cycle, I found Trump to be running to be quite funny and I laughed a lot. But then the lice spread from the head to the crotch and it wasn't so funny anymore. Just the fact that this misogynistic, racist, contradictory ignoramus has now secured the Republican nomination bewilders me and most of the sane in this country. The Republicans, if your news told you, were terrified of him so much that they were willing to attempt to rally around Cruz, who was the most hated Republican in office. Yet their constant antics in the media (and, no, it is not Left) for the last 15-20 years created Trump. They made him, so now they have to suffer the consequences.

With regard to the Left, I don't really think the world understands the Big Picture. I'm sure some do, but I know nothing. Bernie has little to no chance of winning the nomination, but what he is doing is inspirational. He has already made an impact on Democratic policy. He has made his mark and will continue to until the DNC. I think Hillary will clinch it and it will be a misogynist vs a feminist for the POTUS. Funny, but scary because of the lice. The US could actually end up with VD.

IGT

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

Come on. Do you really think Hilary Clinton is a feminist? I mean seriously? She's a corporate puppet. Feminism is just a label for her.

Trump has said bad things about individual women, but Hilary has actually done things to individual women such as defend a pedophile by saying his victim fantasized about having sex with older men and using the FBI and private eyes to harass Bill Clinton's mistresses.

[igotthis 12]

39 minutes ago, MilitantRadical said:

Come on. Do you really think Hilary Clinton is a feminist? I mean seriously? She's a corporate puppet. Feminism is just a label for her.

Trump has said bad things about individual women, but Hilary has actually done things to individual women such as defend a pedophile by saying his victim fantasized about having sex with older men and using the FBI and private eyes to harass Bill Clinton's mistresses.

I am fairly confident in saying that any liberal/progressive woman has a good touch of feminism. While she is not my first choice, calling her a 'corporate puppet' is 'the pot calling the kettle black' for any of the Republican establishment. Trump is tricky though. His corporatism is having his own businesses fund his campaign.

As to your second point - proof, please. And it shouldn't be from Conservative websites like breitbart.com.

IGT

[Ocram's Razr 964]

♪♫ When Mrs Bill Clinton, God bless her, can get the del'gates to yes her, then I suppose... Anything Goes! ♪♫

Hilary is a corporate puppet if your metric is degree and seeming effectiveness of lobbying.

However, The Donald Trump is a wild card because he answers to no one besides himself. Bernie is also a wildcard because he is a populist without corporate backing.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

When I was working in the computer industry, I spent a great deal of time in the U.S. on both the east coast (Boston area) and the south west (Arizona) as well as occasional trips to other locations.  In the summer of 1963, for example, I spent a few days in a little Texas town called Sulphur Springs visiting some relatives.  The nearest town was Dallas, and we went there for some shopping and entertainment.  The atmosphere in Dallas was such that I really fail to understand what on earth John Kennedy was doing there later that fall,  Everyone in the city that I encountered hated his guts.

I also spent some time at Titusville, Florida.  My company was a prime contractor with NASA at the time, so some of us got the grand tour at Cape Canaveral.  Quite a place, but politics was carefully not discussed.  NASA treads very lightly when they live or die on Congressional grants.

I think one of the nicest business trips I was able to make was to New Orleans.  The Big Easy is quite a place, and I liked it so much that I took an additional two weeks vacation there since I handily had an open return ticket paid for by my company.  Also got the corporate rate in the hotel for the two extra weeks. 

Politically the south is strongly Republican with a lot of feelings about the Civil War still rampant.  It reminds me of my youth in Niagara Falls, where the War of 1812 seemed like yesterday even in the middle of the Great War of 1914-1945.  (I was 7 years old when that war ended.) 

Along the U.S./Canada border the area is full of American tourists and believe me, they are different from us in many ways.  They cross the bridge at Niagara Falls with skis on top of their car and wonder where they have to go in July to find the ski hills.  Far too many of them are that naive.  Some of them wonder why their guns are seized at the border.

We get bombarded by the American networks all the time.  When I was growing up, the best radio stations were the three in Buffalo, NY, and CBL, Toronto.  We listened at lot to Buffalo stations.  But hockey, with Foster Hewitt was on CBL.

Do I know how the American system works?  Mostly, I think so.  As an outside observer living in a Westminster system democracy it has been very sad to watch a once strong democratic system fall into an oligarchic plutocracy through the apathy of the voters and the great concentration on individualism giving only mouth service to patriotism. 

A great country is now in a state of decadence, and if you think that Donald Trump with absolutely no experience in politics of any kind would make a good POTUS, then may you get the government you deserve.

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

16 hours ago, igotthis said:

While she is not my first choice, calling her a 'corporate puppet' is 'the pot calling the kettle black' for any of the Republican establishment.

Well I'm not the Republican establishment. And plz. The vast majority of Democrats and Republicans in congress and the senate are corporate puppets.

16 hours ago, igotthis said:

His corporatism is having his own businesses fund his campaign.

Is that a bad thing?

16 hours ago, igotthis said:

As to your second point - proof, please. And it shouldn't be from Conservative websites like breitbart.com.

Durh, you should just know more. If you watch the News or paid more attention you'd know what I'm talking about. What was it you said? Oh yeah: " you need to pay attention to politics if you are going to post on a politics thread". (I'm still a bit butthurt over that comment)

The source of the claim doesn't invalidate the information either. It's ignorant discount it because it's from a conservative source. By that reasoning Liberal sources are just as tainted, only they're more likely to support what you believe. Can't you see you've constructed an echo chamber around yourself?

The CNN piece spins it to make it look like no big deal, but just imagine if this was Trump for a second. You'd never give him the benefit of the doubt.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/04/hillary_clinton_defended_an_alleged_rapists_feminist_lawyers_are_right_to.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/12/bill_clinton_s_sexual_past_can_still_hurt_hillary.html

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/geoffrey-dickens/2016/01/19/what-liberal-media-wont-tell-you-hillary-bullied-bills-victims

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/21/us/politics/90s-scandals-threaten-to-erode-hillary-clintons-strength-with-women.html?_r=0

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jan/14/hillary-clinton-haunted-by-efforts-to-destroy-bill/?page=all

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/6/10722580/bill-clinton-juanita-broaddrick

And one from breitbart just to piss you off.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/31/rap-sheet-the-women-who-claim-to-be-victims-of-bill-and-hillary-clinton/

If Bill Clinton was a Republican he would never have gotten away with all this sexual misconduct. But since Liberals have double-standards, he isn't at all labeled a misogynist, even though he has a long track record of using his positions of power to prey on women.

Oh and lets not forget Bill's friendship with Jeffrey Epstein...

[krbe 193]

3 hours ago, MilitantRadical said:

imagine if this was Trump for a second. You'd never give him the benefit of the doubt.

Well, Mr Trump is being picked on for his idiocy of today and not for the follies of the past.

[Delta 88 262]

16 hours ago, A Nonny Moose said:

Do I know how the American system works?  Mostly, I think so.  As an outside observer living in a Westminster system democracy it has been very sad to watch a once strong democratic system fall into an oligarchic plutocracy through the apathy of the voters and the great concentration on individualism giving only mouth service to patriotism. 

A great country is now in a state of decadence, and if you think that Donald Trump with absolutely no experience in politics of any kind would make a good POTUS, then may you get the government you deserve.

I agree that the USA is and has been circling the drain for quite some time, but I don't understand what makes Hilary Clinton or Bernie Sanders any better than Trump in this election? The election of either of those two, or Trump, won't change the trajectory of this country at all. Even though she has the superdelegates on her side, I still have yet to hear any overwhelmingly positive traits about Hilary. I only hear the "she'd be our first woman president" excuse, which means nothing. And Bernie is sounding like another Obama. I'm hearing the same "he's gonna save this country, he really cares and things are gonna get better" bull that I heard about Obama in 2008 and again in 2012. I think the left is easily drawn to him by this. Of course, I slam the left far more than I slam the right these days.

Nobody replied to the video I posted above. I ask you all to watch it, it's quite meaningful. Personally, it has revealed Sanders and his supporters to be very weak to me.

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

3 hours ago, krbe said:

Well, Mr Trump is being picked on for his idiocy of today and not for the follies of the past.

Anything goes when attacking Trump it seems.

1 hour ago, Delta 88 said:

Even though she has the superdelegates on her side, I still have yet to hear any overwhelmingly positive traits about Hilary. I only hear the "she'd be our first woman president" excuse, which means nothing.

She's uhm, "progressive" with a "good touch of feminism".

[LexusInfernus 908]

22 hours ago, MilitantRadical said:

If Bill Clinton was a Republican he would never have gotten away with all this sexual misconduct. But since Liberals have double-standards, he isn't at all labeled a misogynist, even though he has a long track record of using his positions of power to prey on women.

Actually a lot of liberals and feminists are far from comfortable with the Clintons. Especially the newer generation of liberals/feminists, and you can clearly see it in the primaries since they vote for Sanders a lot more. 

But you are right in the sense that there is/was a double standard, especially from second wave feminists. They support the Clintons for some really practical reasons, namely that despite what both do privately, whether that is sexual misconduct or defending a child rapists, politically they have generally supported policy issues that are important to feminists, even more so to second wave feminists. Namely getting more women to positions of power, supporting the right to getting an abortion, birth control, etc. A lot of feminists are/were willing to overlook the personal flaws of the Clintons because they felt they would advance their causes. 

That said, I think Clinton would have gotten away with it if he was a Republican as well. The guy can charm the scales of a snake. And on top of that, Republicans that are accused of sexual misconduct also often get a free pass from the people that like them from a policy perspective. In that sense, both sides have double standards. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

16 hours ago, Delta 88 said:

I agree that the USA is and has been circling the drain for quite some time, but I don't understand what makes Hilary Clinton or Bernie Sanders any better than Trump in this election? The election of either of those two, or Trump, won't change the trajectory of this country at all. Even though she has the superdelegates on her side, I still have yet to hear any overwhelmingly positive traits about Hilary. I only hear the "she'd be our first woman president" excuse, which means nothing. And Bernie is sounding like another Obama. I'm hearing the same "he's gonna save this country, he really cares and things are gonna get better" bull that I heard about Obama in 2008 and again in 2012. I think the left is easily drawn to him by this. Of course, I slam the left far more than I slam the right these days.

Nobody replied to the video I posted above. I ask you all to watch it, it's quite meaningful. Personally, it has revealed Sanders and his supporters to be very weak to me.

It is not completely clear whether either Hillary or Bernie will be a plug in the drain or be the final grease in the slide.  It is clear that Donald Trump is unfit for the office of POTUS.  Up here in the frozen north, our house may be burning down, but we are astonished to see the neighbours to the south committing political suicide.

If I had to take sides here, I think that the Speaker of the House of Representatives would be a better candidate than all the others, and he has said he won't run.  Maybe he is waiting to pick up the pieces.

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

29 minutes ago, LexusInfernus said:

Actually a lot of liberals and feminists are far from comfortable with the Clintons. Especially the newer generation of liberals/feminists, and you can clearly see it in the primaries since they vote for Sanders a lot more. 

But you are right in the sense that there is/was a double standard, especially from second wave feminists. They support the Clintons for some really practical reasons, namely that despite what both do privately, whether that is sexual misconduct or defending a child rapists, politically they have generally supported policy issues that are important to feminists, even more so to second wave feminists. Namely getting more women to positions of power, supporting the right to getting an abortion, birth control, etc. A lot of feminists are/were willing to overlook the personal flaws of the Clintons because they felt they would advance their causes. 

True, not fair of me to indict all Liberals. But I suspect that even the Sanders supporters will be forced to abandon their principles on this issue and vote for her else The God Emperor will be president. (lol too many Trump memes)

Also I'm just trying to point out that if we're going to call Trump a misogynist then we'd better consider Bill and Hillary's history.

29 minutes ago, LexusInfernus said:

That said, I think Clinton would have gotten away with it if he was a Republican as well. The guy can charm the scales of a snake.

Yeah, he has swag that's for sure.

29 minutes ago, LexusInfernus said:

And on top of that, Republicans that are accused of sexual misconduct also often get a free pass from the people that like them from a policy perspective. In that sense, both sides have double standards. 

Could you give me an example of such a Republican? (Not that I doubt they exist, but I'm wondering if you have a specific person in mind)

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

Camille Paglia's take on the election, although I don't quite understand why she supports Sanders:

It’s not about sexism: Camille Paglia on Trump, Hillary’s “restless bitterness” and the end of the elites

"The most pernicious aspect of this Democratic campaign is the way the field was cleared long in advance for Hillary, a flawed candidate from the get-go, while an entire generation of able Democratic politicians in their 40s was muscled aside, on pain of implied severance from future party support. It is glaringly obvious, given how well Bernie Sanders (my candidate) has done despite a near total media blackout for the past year, that Hillary would never have survived to the nomination had she had younger, more well-known, and centrist challengers."

[krbe 193]

2 hours ago, LexusInfernus said:

defending a child rapists

A female attorney doing her bloody job? Dear God, that's not really permissible, is it now?

They should all get disbarred and sent home to the kitchen counter. And stay away from that Oval Office; presidency is not square enough for a woman to handle.