Few questions regarding modding

[Ryno917 102]

Just bought this over the weekend because it sounds a lot like what I've been looking for. Haven't had a chance to play it yet, but I'm itching to give it a go. The workflow for modding it in it seems to be a lot closer to other modern video game development than SC4 was, as well, with 3D assets instead of pre-rendered imagery so I think it will be much more friendly in that sense. I have some experience in low-poly modeling years ago, but not recently (though I work in 3D professionally, it's solid CAD modeling with NURBS, so not translatable at all to polygonal modeling). I have a variety of reasons for learning poly modeling now, so I think the low poly nature of C:SL will give me a perfect learning ground to coming to terms with the processes before I venture into more difficult things for other games and work. I have a few questions about C:SL modding specifically, though, that I haven't seen answered anywhere.

- Do props use the same texture setup as buildings do (that is, do they support normal maps, spec maps, etc, or just a diffuse map)?

- Is it possible to have any 3D extend below the ground, or do we have to use tricks here? The Reddit AMA says that the building vertices must be at 0, but what about props? I've seen a sunken park for download - any ideas how this was done given the stated limitation?

- We've been given a rough poly limit for buildings (100 for the LOD, 1000 for the building and up to 10K for really large structures) but what about props? Do we have a limit of # of props and polycount for them?

- Does the game support double-sided faces and alpha maps?

- The AMA states that the buildings must all be one object - but does this necessarily mean that all vertices are connected? I'm given to understand that you can collapse a hierarchy into one object but still have disjointed/intersecting faces, and leveraging that could help keep polycounts down. Has anyone tested this yet?

- The AMA states that custom animations, and specifically skeletal animations, are not possible - but has anyone found a way to use the existing animations on custom props yet? The AMA seems to indicate that this should be possible - in the future at least, if not now. The functionality is clearly there.

- Has there been any indication when we can expect the be able to model new vehicles for the traffic?

- Is it possible to have 'seasonal' variations? This wasn't something explicitly part of SC4, as I recall, but some modders were able to have seasonal trees and other details. I'd like to build some assets that appear in summer only, for instance.

- Because C:SL uses agent based simulation, will it ever be possible to do something like the 'big dig' project in SC4, where you 'convert' vehicle traffic into subway traffic? Does C:SL allow you to build tunnels at this point?

 

I'm sure there's many more things that I haven't thought of yet, but that's a start, anyways. Thanks for any insights you guys can offer!

[Dubai Skyscraper 129]

- Do props use the same texture setup as buildings do (that is, do they support normal maps, spec maps, etc, or just a diffuse map)?

- Is it possible to have any 3D extend below the ground, or do we have to use tricks here? The Reddit AMA says that the building vertices must be at 0, but what about props? I've seen a sunken park for download - any ideas how this was done given the stated limitation?

- We've been given a rough poly limit for buildings (100 for the LOD, 1000 for the building and up to 10K for really large structures) but what about props? Do we have a limit of # of props and polycount for them?

- Does the game support double-sided faces and alpha maps?

- The AMA states that the buildings must all be one object - but does this necessarily mean that all vertices are connected? I'm given to understand that you can collapse a hierarchy into one object but still have disjointed/intersecting faces, and leveraging that could help keep polycounts down. Has anyone tested this yet?

- The AMA states that custom animations, and specifically skeletal animations, are not possible - but has anyone found a way to use the existing animations on custom props yet? The AMA seems to indicate that this should be possible - in the future at least, if not now. The functionality is clearly there.

- Has there been any indication when we can expect the be able to model new vehicles for the traffic?

- Is it possible to have 'seasonal' variations? This wasn't something explicitly part of SC4, as I recall, but some modders were able to have seasonal trees and other details. I'd like to build some assets that appear in summer only, for instance.

 

I'm sure there's many more things that I haven't thought of yet, but that's a start, anyways. Thanks for any insights you guys can offer!

I can't nswer all of them but at least a few:

2 - There's absolutely no limitation to build below ground, the asset editor even has a tool to remove the ground layer in 8x8 meter squares so your geometry would be visible

 

4 - No and yes. For clipping effects you need to duplicate an object and flip its normals (as far as i know)

 

5 - Absolutely not, your mesh can consist of many sub-meshes. Just dissolve the hierachy

 

8 - I believe this should be possible as soon as animated props are supported, and given that you can set up a some lines of code that read the current in-game date... or so

[Cool_Z 1,547]

- Does the game support double-sided faces and alpha maps?

 

As said above you'll have to duplicate and invert normals.

ALpha maps are supported but (for now... sadly) they are on/off. There are no half transparencies.

[Ryno917 102]

 

- Do props use the same texture setup as buildings do (that is, do they support normal maps, spec maps, etc, or just a diffuse map)?

- Is it possible to have any 3D extend below the ground, or do we have to use tricks here? The Reddit AMA says that the building vertices must be at 0, but what about props? I've seen a sunken park for download - any ideas how this was done given the stated limitation?

- We've been given a rough poly limit for buildings (100 for the LOD, 1000 for the building and up to 10K for really large structures) but what about props? Do we have a limit of # of props and polycount for them?

- Does the game support double-sided faces and alpha maps?

- The AMA states that the buildings must all be one object - but does this necessarily mean that all vertices are connected? I'm given to understand that you can collapse a hierarchy into one object but still have disjointed/intersecting faces, and leveraging that could help keep polycounts down. Has anyone tested this yet?

- The AMA states that custom animations, and specifically skeletal animations, are not possible - but has anyone found a way to use the existing animations on custom props yet? The AMA seems to indicate that this should be possible - in the future at least, if not now. The functionality is clearly there.

- Has there been any indication when we can expect the be able to model new vehicles for the traffic?

- Is it possible to have 'seasonal' variations? This wasn't something explicitly part of SC4, as I recall, but some modders were able to have seasonal trees and other details. I'd like to build some assets that appear in summer only, for instance.

 

I'm sure there's many more things that I haven't thought of yet, but that's a start, anyways. Thanks for any insights you guys can offer!

I can't nswer all of them but at least a few:

2 - There's absolutely no limitation to build below ground, the asset editor even has a tool to remove the ground layer in 8x8 meter squares so your geometry would be visible

 

4 - No and yes. For clipping effects you need to duplicate an object and flip its normals (as far as i know)

 

5 - Absolutely not, your mesh can consist of many sub-meshes. Just dissolve the hierachy

 

8 - I believe this should be possible as soon as animated props are supported, and given that you can set up a some lines of code that read the current in-game date... or so

 

 

Thanks! #5 was probably the main thing I really wanted to know. That will definitely help to keep polycounts down.

 

 

- Does the game support double-sided faces and alpha maps?

 

As said above you'll have to duplicate and invert normals.

ALpha maps are supported but (for now... sadly) they are on/off. There are no half transparencies.

 

 

Thanks!

That's some very valuable information, thanks so much, guys!

[Cool_Z 1,547]

- The AMA states that the buildings must all be one object - but does this necessarily mean that all vertices are connected? I'm given to understand that you can collapse a hierarchy into one object but still have disjointed/intersecting faces, and leveraging that could help keep polycounts down. Has anyone tested this yet?

 

- Has there been any indication when we can expect the be able to model new vehicles for the traffic?

 

 

- Because C:SL uses agent based simulation, will it ever be possible to do something like the 'big dig' project in SC4, where you 'convert' vehicle traffic into subway traffic? Does C:SL allow you to build tunnels at this point?

 

 

Damn, I just realized I've got more answers...

 

We can use disconnected and overlapping polygons. They work well. I've made some buildings with the facade as a single quad and the balconies not connected.

 

We can't work on vehicles for now but this will most certainly come in a nearby future.

 

Tunnels have been omitted for release (better have a working game with a few less features than loads of things that don't work at all) but will be added pretty soon. 

[Ryno917 102]

 

- The AMA states that the buildings must all be one object - but does this necessarily mean that all vertices are connected? I'm given to understand that you can collapse a hierarchy into one object but still have disjointed/intersecting faces, and leveraging that could help keep polycounts down. Has anyone tested this yet?

 

- Has there been any indication when we can expect the be able to model new vehicles for the traffic?

 

 

- Because C:SL uses agent based simulation, will it ever be possible to do something like the 'big dig' project in SC4, where you 'convert' vehicle traffic into subway traffic? Does C:SL allow you to build tunnels at this point?

 

 

Damn, I just realized I've got more answers...

 

We can use disconnected and overlapping polygons. They work well. I've made some buildings with the facade as a single quad and the balconies not connected.

 

We can't work on vehicles for now but this will most certainly come in a nearby future.

 

Tunnels have been omitted for release (better have a working game with a few less features than loads of things that don't work at all) but will be added pretty soon. 

 

 

Great! Looking forward to the vehicles and tunnels. Hopefully the wait won't be too excruciatingly long. I'm also really keen on getting above-ground metro/light rail and in-road light rail options in the future - hopefully those will come soon, too.

[ReticentDaikaiju 26]

I have done quite a bit with props, so I can answer your prop related questions that the other guy skipped.

 

- Do props use the same texture setup as buildings do (that is, do they support normal maps, spec maps, etc, or just a diffuse map)?

 

Yes, they seem to (mostly). At least I have used spec, lighting, and alpha and all have worked. Color maps don't seem to do anything just because there is no slider to set the color in the prop editor.

 

 

 

- We've been given a rough poly limit for buildings (100 for the LOD, 1000 for the building and up to 10K for really large structures) but what about props? Do we have a limit of # of props and polycount for them?

There is no set polycount for props, but I would recommend keeping them small. As near as I can tell the props don't actually use an LOD model (even if you upload one) and have a limited draw distance, so if you zoom too far out they just vanish. See my previous post here:

 

 

 

- The AMA states that custom animations, and specifically skeletal animations, are not possible - but has anyone found a way to use the existing animations on custom props yet? The AMA seems to indicate that this should be possible - in the future at least, if not now. The functionality is clearly there.

I saw the AMA and tried to get this to work, but I couldn't find any way to use animations on a custom built model, even using a model that used vertex animations as a template. As near as I can tell what they meant in the AMA by using animations on "custom buildings" was just that you could load a standard building like a wind turbine with animations and change its color and add props. See my previous post here:

[Ryno917 102]

I have done quite a bit with props, so I can answer your prop related questions that the other guy skipped.

 

- Do props use the same texture setup as buildings do (that is, do they support normal maps, spec maps, etc, or just a diffuse map)?

 

Yes, they seem to (mostly). At least I have used spec, lighting, and alpha and all have worked. Color maps don't seem to do anything just because there is no slider to set the color in the prop editor.

 

 

 

- We've been given a rough poly limit for buildings (100 for the LOD, 1000 for the building and up to 10K for really large structures) but what about props? Do we have a limit of # of props and polycount for them?

There is no set polycount for props, but I would recommend keeping them small. As near as I can tell the props don't actually use an LOD model (even if you upload one) and have a limited draw distance, so if you zoom too far out they just vanish. See my previous post here:

 

 

 

- The AMA states that custom animations, and specifically skeletal animations, are not possible - but has anyone found a way to use the existing animations on custom props yet? The AMA seems to indicate that this should be possible - in the future at least, if not now. The functionality is clearly there.

I saw the AMA and tried to get this to work, but I couldn't find any way to use animations on a custom built model, even using a model that used vertex animations as a template. As near as I can tell what they meant in the AMA by using animations on "custom buildings" was just that you could load a standard building like a wind turbine with animations and change its color and add props. See my previous post here:

 

Thanks for the insights! I'm actually a little surprised there's no colour option for props. I'd have thought that would be part of them so that you could share elements all over the city (a gas tank, for instance) and recolour it for different places.

Thanks!