Double-Deck Bridge Experiment

[toxicpiano 125]

Date: 11/27/2005 12:43:09 PM Author: Nexis you don't know what a trestle bridge is.  are you joking.

er i didnt know what a trestle bridge is...

if i saw it i might know though. dont be so bloody rude about it.

[danielanzaldua 8]

Where you get that alsome bridge

[christhebull 1]

jeronij - that bridge looks good. Is it for streets? Because a street bridge would be great.

But back on the subject of double decker bridges - when are we likely to see smoncrie's bridges in our cities?

[Fairlane500 8]

jeronij: There are a few types of trestle that I was able to find, one that's more simple, and probably easier to make, and another with a maze of supports. Generally they carry only rail traffic, and the former is seen more often in use in modern times.

Here they are:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c2/AlhambraTrestle.jpg align=baseline>

 

width=795 align=baseline>

 

 

[jeronij 13]

Hello to all.

 

Andreas, thanks for the suggestion, sometimes I am lazy lazy...

Fairlane500, thanks for the pics ( I just can see the first one though ).

 

I have just now noticed that there were some trestled bridges in the page 2 in this thread

 

Yes, this test is a street bridge, and I hope Smoncrie can put it to work. If so, I

[smoncrie 43]

jeronij, I got your models working as a bridge.  There were a few problems.

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//smoncrie%20double-deck%20bridge7.jpg align=baseline>

 

 

 

I found that you do need to change the ID from those generated by BAT, and that fixing this by hand was much more tedious than I had thought.  I think I remember seeing a way to tell BAT what ID

[Andreas Roth 607]

Well, apart from the problems (considering this is probably the first time that someone converted a BAT to a functional bridge, and esp. a BAT from someone who started BATting only a few weeks ago) it looks pretty good.

[smoncrie 43]

Andreas, I agree that it looks very good.  All the problems are because it's the first time we have tried to do it.

[jeronij 13]

Date: 11/27/2005 5:12:02 PM Author: smoncrie

jeronij, I got your models working as a bridge.  There were a few problems.

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//smoncrie%20double-deck%20bridge7.jpg align=baseline>

I found that you do need to change the ID from those generated by BAT, and that fixing this by hand was much more tedious than I had thought.  I think I remember seeing a way to tell BAT what ID

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

If i made the models required for a bridge would you mod that too?

[smoncrie 43]

ILL Tonkso, not for a little while.  We need to solve the problems first.

Everyone:  Remember that new bridges will have to become part of the NAM, so there will be much less freedom to create them compared to lots.

 

EDIT:

jeronij, I used reader

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Ill make the models anyway, i have had an idea for ages.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Well, here it is.

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/TonksoBridge2.JPG This is with all pieces together, each 16m x 16m section is a completly seperate model as i assume is the coreect way.

[jeronij 13]

Date: 11/27/2005 6:09:38 PM Author: smoncrie

jeronij, I used reader

[hamsterTK 93]

Here's abridge that might be easy to make and would look modern:

[smoncrie 43]

jeronij, adding end pieces should not be hard, but I think that we need to get things working properly first.

The Material ID is the Instance ID of a FSH texture.  It does not necessarily match the Instance ID of the S3D.

I found the  reference to changing the ID

[ardecila 124]

Trestles

I like the trestle idea; the problem is that the supports would need to keep widening the further down the bridge went, and if the widening extended beyond the bounds of a single tile, it might cause problems. If not, cool. I dunno, just a thought. If it does cause problems, though, I'd suggest that, as soon as the widening reaches that 16m-wide point, you just continue it down vertically.

Adding Bridges to the NAM

What happens if there's an entry in the BSPEC without models or an exemplar? Would the bridge still appear in menus? If not, then maybe the central BSPECs could be written to accomodate all custom bridges that are made, and then the exemplar and models come in a seperate package that the downloader can choose about.

[Fairlane500 8]

I may have found a solution to the widening problem in another kind of trestle also. I came across this one during my search, and it would feasibly work.

http://www.education.mcgill.ca/profs/cartwright/rawdon/trestle.jpg align=baseline>

 

As for the more conventional ones, they could always extend down for aways, then have concrete blocks. That seems to be what the railroad did along Snoqualmie Pass near the trestle bases.

[smoncrie 43]

jeronij, I was thinking of using the same models for more than one transit network, street and road, for example.  It might be best if you rendered the bridge deck as shell with a hollow center.  If you also leave the street surface as a (Edit) rectangular hole on top of the bridge deck, I would be able to add the appropriate texture.

ardecila,  if there is no problem with a bridge that is all supports, a trestle bridge would be a simple bridge.   If one also wants water traffic under it, it becomes a more complicated bridge.   Having the support widen beyond a single tile should be possible, but there might be odd visual effects such as a boat going part way through the trestle.  Another way to do it might be to use a 3 tile wide bridge.   I think that both possibilities would work well on land, but on water, the water wash effect might look odd at different bridge heights.

Sometimes more is needed than a reference to a bridge

[Fairlane500 8]

smoncrie: A local landmark near my house, the Wilburton Trestle, displays what could be a possible, if complex, solution to the opening problem. Most of the trestle is a wooden mass, as seen in the following image:

width=516 align=baseline>

But the central section is designed to accomodate a roadway running beneath it:

width=799 align=baseline>

 

Though, the one potential loophole is that most trestles that span water are so low that boat traffic is not permitable, or the taller ones are built over valleys that have only a small stream or river, or no water at all, negating the need for boat passage.

[The Sim Mayor 1]

Holy.. This is great! If you can get that working for everyone then I'll download it for sure!

By the way, I can't see your pictures fairlane.

[Karybdis 34]

*nods to smoncrie*

Ard&co: The purpose of the BSPECs work like this. Generally speaking, a bridge can be defined as being constant over various distances or variable over various distances. Variables are where the BSPEC comes in because it takes each length (4,6,7,8,9,30,34,24,etc) of bridge and makes a specific combination of pieces just for it. Fun huh?

 

I didnt personally know that you could just ignore them for simple constant bridge types, but this does make sense considering I dont remember BSPEC's existing before rush hour, and I deffinitely remember bridges existing before rush hour.

 

One of the interesting things is that maxis had pointed out at some point that Diagonal Bridges were possible, but just would have taken them too much time to fit diagonal pieces together. Maybe if we ever do perfect the process we can do that for them. You never know.

[brtim2 11]

Date: 11/28/2005 2:55:50 AM
Author: Karybdis

One of the interesting things is that maxis had pointed out at some point that Diagonal Bridges were possible, but just would have taken them too much time to fit diagonal pieces together. Maybe if we ever do perfect the process we can do that for them. You never know.

quote>

Yes, I remember a post about the features of Rush Hour and someone had commented on the bridges. A Maxis employee responded with it was either more bridge types or diagonal bridges and that they were happy with the decision they made to include a greater variety of bridges. I don't remember the exact wording, but I know it was an 'either-or' besides an 'and'. But who is to say diagonal bridges were a limitation of time instead of the game?

[smoncrie 43]

jeronij, what I meant in my previous post was that the bridge deck model should look like this:

 

 

 

Notice that the street surface is missing.   Although it is not important, the bottom of the deck is also missing.  This is OK because it will not be visible.   You would not need the ends either, except that an end of this piece can be seen when it is at the end of the bridge.

I plan to add a rectangular model with a street texture to all your model

[jeronij 13]

Date: 11/28/2005 10:48:20 AM Author: smoncrie

jeronij, what I meant in my previous post was that the bridge deck model should look like this:

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//smoncrie%20double-deck%20bridge8.jpg align=baseline>

Notice that the street surface is missing.  Although it is not important, the bottom of the deck is also missing.  This is OK because it will not be visible.  You would not need the ends either, except that an end of this piece can be seen when it is at the end of the bridge.

I plan to add a rectangular model with a street texture to all your model

[smoncrie 43]

Jeronij, the group numbers are good, and the instance numbers are OK for now.  The problem is that I am not sure what instance values should be used on a permanent basis.  If we use non-NAM addresses we risk conflicts with BAT buildings.  Possibly we could use NAM addresses, but the bridge pieces will use a very large amount of address space.  I should probably contact tropod about this.

You are correct, streets are narrower than roads.  However, we are learning how to make bridges, and frequently the same bridge models are used by road, one-ways, and avenues.  I think we should know how to do this properly. In any case, it will be interesting to see what the narrower roads look like, even if we never use them.

I plan to add the road textures like this:   I start by BATing a flat rectangular model with a size that lets it fit into the bridge model pieces.   I take each of the S3D

[Karybdis 34]

from my instance Spec if this helps:

0xA82CA30F - Exemplar - Bridge Pieces Main Definition
 0xAA0000BB
  A = Network ID
  B = Bridge ID

 

0x2821ED93 - Exemplar - Bridge Pieces Network Part Assignment
 0xAAAABBBB
  A = Bridge Pieces, Piece ID
         Light Map, Unused
  B = Bridge Pieces, Unused, For S3D
         Light Map, Piece ID

 

0xA8434037 - Exemplar - Highway Pieces Definitions
 0xAABBCCCC
  A = Network ID
  B = Bridge Piece Family
  C = Bridge Piece ID

 

0xCB730FAC - Exemplar - Avenue Bridge Pieces Resources
 0xAAAABCCC
  A = Piece ID
  B = Section Flag (Support, or Connector)
  C = Unused. For S3D's

 

0xE8347989 - Exemplar - Rail & Highway Bridge Pieces Resources & Rail Tunnel
 0xAAAABCCC
  A = Piece ID
  B = Section Flag (Support, or Connector)
  C = Unused. For S3D's

 

0x1ABE787D - FSH - Building Textures/Bridge Textures/Misc Textures/Network Textures
 0xAABBCCDE - Network Textures
  A = Network ID
  B = Piece Family
  C = Piece ID
  D = Border Texture Type
  E = Zoom

 

badb57f1 - Simglide 3D Model
 0xAAAABCDE - Standard Instance Format
  A = LODs, LOD Model ID
         Object, 3D Object ID (Cars, complex 3d objects, etc)
         Arbitrary Assign, AssignID (All other values unused)
  B = LODs, Foundation flag (is foundation or not)
         Object, TypeFlag (0 = vehicle, 1=rear light, 2 =Vehicle
                        lights, 3 = siren, 5 = General 3d model)
  C = LODs, Zoom
         Object, Unused
  D = LODs, Rotation
         Object, Unused
  E = LODs, Unused
         Object, Secondary Typeflag (as main type flag)
 0xAABBCCDE - 3d Networks
  A = Network Type (02 highway, 08 LTrail)
  B = Highway, Piece Class (00 Single or 01 Intersection)
         El/Light, Piece ID
  C = Highway, Piece ID
         El/Light, Underlying Network Piece ID
  D = Highway, SubID (for things like Clovers, the part of the clover)
         El/Light, Where used, the SubID as above
  E = Highway, Zoom of Underlying Network Piece
         El/Light, Zoom of Piece

 

 

As long as some form of that is adhered to on a permanent basis, then conflicts are avoided in theory. Not to say all of those should be used, but they were maxis' guidelines by the looks of it.

 

 

 

 

[smoncrie 43]

jeronij, that model you sent me was just what I needed.  It is a little odd at zooms 1 and 2 (BAT is the cause of this), but I found a good work around.

 

Here is a close up of it.  The street surface models have been added and they use textures that are corrected for the lighter colour used in bridge pieces.

Thanks Karydis, that

[sparkythepenguin 90]

Holy expletive deleted! This is awesome! I'm going to have to drag out a good pic of the Steel Bridge... It's a weird double-decked vertical lift bridge, rail on the bottom, Light rail and cars on top. The lower deck can be raised independently from the upper! I don't know if that'd be moddable, but it would sure be cool to see!

[Shadow Assassin 336]

Well, that's a job well done, but it looks a little seamy. Maybe clean it up a wee bit? I note that the street surface is fine, tho. Also, that shadow... don't worry about fixing it, lol [a couple of Maxis bridges have the same problem, besides, you can barely notice it ]

What would be cool would be an avenue bridge with elrail running on the top of it.