Double-Deck Bridge Experiment

[smoncrie 43]

Oh my!!! 

 

Thanks for all the praise everyone.      Please remember that this is still experimental, it may yet prove to be too flawed to use.

I have now got GLR to work on the bridge, and I pathed another bridge.  Only these two bridges have thick decks so they may be the only bridges that look reasonable with trains added.

The part that I am uncertain about is the modification of the Traffic Simulator.  I changed it to add a non-zero speed for rail and elevated rail on roads. (I would have thought that the speed on highways would need to be changed, but only roads worked. )  I have also discovered an unfortunate side effect of this:  a news ticker message complains about a congested road and points to the highway bridge.  It also shows red in the traffic data view.    This occurs if there is any rail or elevated rail traffic on the bridge.

I have not worked with the traffic simulator very much.  Perhaps another modder could tell me what kind of problems I should look for.

 

 

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//smoncrie%20double-deck%20bridge4.jpg align=baseline>

Here is the other bridge with GLR on one side and ground rail on the other.

 

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//smoncrie%20double-deck%20bridge5.jpg align=baseline>

I think some people may have misinterpreted my picture with the puzzle piece, so this picture shows it separated from everything else.  It is a little crude, but it can be fixed up later.

 

 

 

Chocolatemax285, Andreas, topcliff, Duke87,and Karydis, to prevent the trains from looking like they are hovering or going through girders, the bridge pieces could be changed, but it would be tedious since there would be close to 200 models to modify.    There are two alternatives:  The paths could be changed to move the trains further under the bridge where it would be harder to see anything wrong with the bridge model.  Another possibility is to create new bridges.   I wanted to know more about creating bridges, so I tried and succeeded in creating a new bridge made out of existing bridge pieces.   (When I posted about it, I got no response.) With BATers to help I think we could do more.  Prince_of_sims, I think that making bridges looks a lot like BATing new intersections, but easier because there is a lot of repetition.

qurlix, we will have to see.  Maybe existing bridges will be good enough.

BIWDC and Sym Productions, I worked on this project a long time, but it took this long because I screwed up.

In my

[christhebull 1]

Oooh! It definatly gives the illusion of double decker freeways! But it's a shame it won't work with all bridge types. However, you could modify the bridge so the train track is a prop underneath and the train goes along there. Sort of like this: (You would need to mod it so it only appeared when there were puzzle pieces at each end.)

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//dietcoke.JPG align=baseline>Is this UDI enabled? Even if no, it's still great.

[smoncrie 43]

christhebul, good idea!  I had not thought of doing it that way. Of course, one would need a separate instance of the bridge so that one version had the props and one did not.

My experimental bridges do work with UDI.  If you don't modify the Traffic Simulator, you can still do UDI, but the game does not think that any rail traffic goes on the bridge.  In this case it is not very consistent.

[jeronij 13]

Date: 11/23/2005 2:25:46 PM Author: smoncrie

I wanted to know more about creating bridges, so I tried and succeeded in creating a new bridge made out of existing bridge pieces.  (When I posted about it, I got no response.) With BATers to help I think we could do more. 

 

Even I am quite new with the BAT tool, bridges were one of the first things that came to my mind when I started to use it. So if you think it can be done, and you need some BAT help just let me know . I

[Andreas Roth 607]

Date: 11/23/2005 2:25:46 PM Author: smoncrie

Another possibility is to create new bridges.  I wanted to know more about creating bridges, so I tried and succeeded in creating a new bridge made out of existing bridge pieces.  (When I posted about it, I got no response.)

 

You mean in the thread where I translated some postings for ArkenbergeJoe recently? I guess nobody really understood what you did - creating a new bridge that can be built with the normal network tools is fantastic. I'd suggest to explain your accomplishment a bit more with some pics, then you'll get the same feedback like in this thread.

[Karybdis 34]

*nods* New bridges are deffinitely possible. I was wondering if anybody besides simmars team were ever going to make one. Then I noticed the one that was created in that thread

The only real problem with making bridges, is you have to do a good job on the individual sections a) and b) its incredibly tedius changing the parts for each length of bridge ^^;;;

 

Components of a new bridge:

1) Modification of the BSpec file for that type and creation of a new bridge rule set

2) exemplar

3) modification of the network ini bridge data (I believe)

4) the models and textures (duh)

All the rest should take care of itself

 

Qurlix: nooooo what I meant was that its hard to edit an existing texture that was made with the BAT and have it not look like its been edited (ie good).... if it can be done, then by all means we should do it. I think the props under the bridge looks much more interesting for pulling it off well, but we'll have to see.

[smoncrie 43]

Andreas, Yes that was the posting I meant.

 

I created the new bridge using two Maxis defined bridge pieces.   However I can not see anything that would prevent BAT from being used.

Here is the picture I showed before.

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//smoncrie%20newbridge1.jpg align=baseline>

Karybdis, I created a new exemplar for the bridge and I added it to the Network INI (IID 0x8a5993b9).  Since I used existing bridge pieces that was all!  The tedious stuff in the BSpec file is optional, and I did not need it for this simple bridge. To finish it up properly I need to create a PNG bridge picture and a LTEXT with the name

[brtim2 11]

smoncrie: is there a polygon limit to the amount of polygons per 1 tile piece stated in the interchange tutorial?

cause if so... dang.

[smoncrie 43]

brtim2, I have not actually BATed a bridge, so I am not sure.   Judging from some of the Maxis support pieces the limit must be at least several hundred, but it may be a lot more.

I am afraid I have not had time to look at the bridge models you posted recently.

Unlike some puzzle pieces, it looks like gmax produced textures should be OK for bridge pieces and texture remapping is probably not needed.

[Karybdis 34]

The tile limit is as much as your computer can handle. You could theoretically make the models true translations from the BATS but you'd probably stall the comp.

Generally speaking, maxis has a rule of thumb to not go over 800 poly's per tile. This is how it held up in The Sims, and I assume the limit is pretty much the same for SC4 since they use the same grid system.

[jeronij 13]

Date: 11/23/2005 7:04:17 PM Author: smoncrie

Jeronij, the key thing about bridges is that they need to be divided into one-tile pieces.  I think that BAT will work fine for creating those pieces.

The simplest bridges need only two pieces:  a repeat piece and a piece that also includes a bridge support.  Even Highway bridges need only two pieces; lanes for the other direction use the same pieces turned 180 degrees.

The pieces should be created with the road (or whatever) surface is at a height of zero.  The bridge support should stretch down 500m to 700m.

More complicated bridges also use a sequence of one or more bridge pieces that go at each end of the bridge.  It is also possible to specify the bridge piece to use in every part of the bridge for every possible bridge length.

The bridge pieces also need paths, network props (streetlights and the water wash around the bridge supports), and 2d shadows.  This is fairly easy to do because bridges are straight and the number of pieces is usually small.

Please note that bridges can not be added to the game individually.  They will need to be added to the NAM.

I might be interested to help in making a bridge or two.

quote>

Now I am completing a modular seawalls set, which is made with pieces that have to fit in game, so I

[christhebull 1]

Didn't 6underground BAT his own bridge?

And smoncrie, that do you mean by separate instance - is this where you make a duplicate with the props, and leave the original without them?

[smoncrie 43]

jeronij, to get going on BATing a bridge we are going to need a little trial and error.   First step is to create the BAT models for two bridge pieces to be used in a simple bridge.

By default BAT produces S3D

[vester_DK 477]

If the bridge christhebull is thinking of is the one that I think it, it was just a cover for a standard Maxis bridge.

[jeronij 13]

Date: 11/24/2005 1:14:02 PM Author: smoncrie

jeronij, to get going on BATing a bridge we are going to need a little trial and error.  First step is to create the BAT models for two bridge pieces to be used in a simple bridge.

By default BAT produces S3D

[danjel 0]

Why not just figure out a way to have the bridge going down through one tile and then offset the actual picture of the bridge such that it's going under another bridge?

Or is this what you're actually trying to achieve?

[Gen 0]

I am happy to say that this is a good idea. I have been wanting a dual carriageway for bridges.

EDIT: My 100th post

[Gen 0]

Sorry to post twice

[christhebull 1]

Date: 11/24/2005 1:36:52 PM Author: vester_DK If the bridge christhebull is thinking of is the one that I think it, it was just a cover for a standard Maxis bridge.

quote>

That's what I meant. It's a cover, but it still looks nice.

[smoncrie 43]

jeronij, some pictures might help.

 

Here are the two pieces I used to create the bridge I posted above. (Note: these pictures show S3D models.  Because some of the parts on the back have been culled, they do not show the original model perfectly.  These parts should not be missing in a new model; the two sides should be symmetrical)

 

I have been referring to the picture on the left as the repeat piece.  In my bridge it is used more than just at the start.

 

You doing the BATing, and me doing the moding makes a lot of sence.

 

Yes I do mean 500/700 BAT units.  The supports need to reach the ground, even if the bridge is very high.

I had not really thought about the kind of bridge to start with.  Perhaps a rural street bridge?  I am sure you have some ideas.

danjel, your idea would work for producing a double-deck bridge, but it would not work well for the support pieces.

I would like some double deck bridges, but I would really like good looking bridges of any type. 

[kassarc16 4]

smoncrie, definetly keep up on the work with the double deck first. As soon as that's feasible it'll be cake to roll out new bridges I suppose.

 

About a rural style bridge. How about an old-style wooden bridge? Something like this?

http://www.bridgebuilders.com/html/images/gallery/vehicular/images/Suwanee%20Creek%202.jpg align=baseline>

 

http://www.bridgebuilders.com/html/images/gallery/vehicular/images/p-3.jpg align=baseline>

 

And maybe for a new rail bridge, the tressel.

align=baseline>

 

http://www.skotch.com/oldtressel.JPG align=baseline>

[Shadow Assassin 336]

Hmm, an excellent concept. But I wonder: could this be modified in any way to provide us with diagonal bridges?

[choco1 4]

This is great work. The brilliant modding skills of smoncrie and the great BATting skills of Jeronij are a great combination! I look forward to finally having a new bridge in the game, and a tressle bridge would look great!

[jeronij 13]

Hello to all,

 

I have had some time to start with the model. I am sure it can be improved, but lets see first if it works

 

 

Some pics

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//JRJPuente01BATpreview.jpg align=baseline>

 

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//JRJPuente01BATpreview02.jpg align=baseline>

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//JRJPuente01BATpreview03.jpg align=baseline>

 

Smoncrie, the ziped models have a +400kb size, so I can not attach them to this post. If you PM your email I will email them to you.

[topcliff 1]

maybe you'll be able to eventually get to suspension bridges.(coughBayBridgecough)

[choco1 4]

That bridge looks very good Jeronij, it could use some more detail on the support (instead of just a plian block going doen, maybe it could get larger or have its own imprinted arches as designs). Keep up the great work!

[Fairlane500 8]

These are some amazing discoveries you guys have made. I just about had to grab onto my desk to keep from getting blown out of my chair. Bunnies to you.

If new bridges actually can succeed in being added, the lists of ones to add would be endless, including, wow, to think it could be added, one of my favorites, the cantilever bridge.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/ForthBridgeEdinburgh.jpg width=538 align=baseline>

 

And trestles would be a definite download for me, they would complement my CJ perfectly, and I could actually recreate an awesome area near Quincy, California.

[jeronij 13]

Date: 11/26/2005 10:16:56 PM Author: chocolatemax285 That bridge looks very good Jeronij, it could use some more detail on the support (instead of just a plian block going doen, maybe it could get larger or have its own imprinted arches as designs). Keep up the great work!

I am sure it can be improved, but lets see first if it works

Btw, I dont understand trestles bridge. Can some one post a pic ?

[Nexis 1]

you don't know what a trestle bridge is.  are you joking.

[Andreas Roth 607]

Date: 11/27/2005 12:43:09 PM Author: Nexis you don't know what a trestle bridge is.  are you joking.

quote>

Remember, English is not the native language for everyone...

 

@jeronij: Try a Google Image Search , this should give you an idea what a trestle bridge is.