Larger Map Experiments 3.0

[xoxide 377]

What do you people expect from an external city improvement if its possible.  I know this may seem strange question to ask however there is a reason.

 

Please list your expectations and understand of what will and will not work, what is acceptable failure and what is not acceptable failure

 

XoXiDe - Project Orion

 

 

Its a thought Question.. What are your EXPECTATIONS of an extended city.  What would you want to see what would you like to see and what do you think is acceptable failure of aspects of the engine.

 

Its an open question

[CapTon 592]

What do you mean by this question? I'm finding it hard to understand what you're asking

[xoxide 377]

Its a thinking cap question.  What do you captron want to see in a larger map knowing it will be broken one way or the other

[CapTon 592]

Oh okay.

 

Well.... with a larger but broken map, I would like to see that it at least functions and does not cause so many problems that I couldn't even write them all down on paper. Just the basic functionality would be nice.

[xoxide 377]

Since nearly everything breaks down in progression from distance we have to be careful ..

[Nico Robin 70]

Larger map = more need Ram , big lag like cities xl....

[Grockefeller 68]

And what if we slow down agents on the game? I've always thought everything was too fast in this game. Car on the road speeding like hell... The game would have more time to calculate agent path and everything else, so even in a big map, no lag.

 

About the question xoxide ask, I think the more important if we can't have "just" bigger maps ( like CXL ) is to remove empty space and make city next to other like Simcity. The big deal with that idea is the power to create junction between cities, and a better management between city, like transit traffic, etc...

[Yayie 311]

And what if we slow down agents on the game? I've always thought everything was too fast in this game. Car on the road speeding like hell... The game would have more time to calculate agent path and everything else, so even in a big map, no lag.

 

About the question xoxide ask, I think the more important if we can't have "just" bigger maps ( like CXL ) is to remove empty space and make city next to other like Simcity. The big deal with that idea is the power to create junction between cities, and a better management between city, like transit traffic, etc...

 

I like the idea but isn't that we need to create whole new map for it?

[xoxide 377]

some of you just do not yet understand what a map is and how SimCity maps are not maps at all except visually.

 

Boundry box and useable space is data nothing more.. not a map at all.  Once you step outside the city limits its like a black hole the laws of physics break down.

 

HYPOTHETICALLY.  like BoC if you build outside the city terrain rendering is broken if you draw you will draw most likely through an objet not over up and down at a slant .. now you may be able to draw to edge and then down with less terrain morph and twisting due to no rendering but your behaviours have to change even to make some things look ok

 

You also cannot modify the original road systems within a region or you will break that city your playing

 

There is potentially a very long list of what will not work even if we get a few tiny things to work.

 

So i'm asking what are your expectations and motivations for larger maps.  Because if its just to get rid of a boundry box around a city.. go to  the control panel under options and say do not show city limits.

 

The benefits may not out weigh the problems is one of my major points.

[Yayie 311]

Expectations, longer commute time, healthier sims, having able to add more buildings which motivates to add couple or more of specialization in a single city, wishful thought actually. I played around BoC but it has some flaws (exactly what you said) but it does add some positive side of it.

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

I've thought from the beginning that the gaps between the current city spaces would figure into a larger maps expansion.  If you "upgrade" to the expansion, or pay a few million your borders will be expanded to form a square of approximately double the square mile/kilometer/whatever size we have now.  Of course this would suck on cites mostly surrounded by water, but it would make sense as the addon would be backward compatible to the release reigions.

[Cob92 360]

Honestly, I'd simply be happy to be able to build zoned buildings outside of the border. Biggest problem with the current maps is that you have to raise your city to an absurd density level in order to achieve any decently high population figure. You have cities of 60,000 people that look like Brooklyn because a suburban city can fit only a few thousand people at best.

[xoxide 377]

we doubt true zoning will ever be possible out side of the city even if we figure out other aspects. .. There seems to be layers of engines doing different things with various controls tied to the data of the map

 

rufas most of that information your mentioning only exists in the city not outside the city at all

 

Yeyie more is broken then you most likely realize unfortunately.  Somehow even broken doesn't quiet say how I feel about what we see at times.

 

time will tell I guess anything else

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

Honestly, I'd simply be happy to be able to build zoned buildings outside of the border.

 

 

This.  You should be able to build a road right along the side of the map and have RCI buiuld up there. 

 

Also, they should give us some plopping leeway there.  The best place to put the regional bus depot is near an entrance to the city.  It will fit on the guideline grid along the side of the map, but the 5 bus plop points in the back will be un-ploppable.   Best place for a polluting power plant?  Edge of the map!  Again, there go the plop points on one side.  It's silly.

[xoxide 377]

<.<  

>.>

 

yea well things aren't always what they seem what is and isn't possible are two separate issues in general across the board it seems

[DamienMB 58]

I'm fine with simply freeing up room within the boundaries, rather than expanding them.

- Any way to get RCI outside, zoned, plopped, whatever.

Even if it's only industrial or commercial, it would allow for more residential inside.

I'm optimistic since B.O.C. allows us to place HQs (~commercial), plants (~industrial) and megatowers outside.

- Tunnels, bridges and/or UDoN outside would also be handy if possible (Skyes's regional highway can be raised and lowered).

[xoxide 377]

There is a different between PLOPS and ZONES which are automatic growth

 

We can plop or place objects, however getting Plop Points and natural RCI growth to work is a completely different story.

 

Some other aspects we can already make or have made work to one degree or another however officially making terrain changes are a different story and require use of secondary props with same or similar functions to make them work which make it complicated and sort of annoying / clunky.

 

This is why i'm bringing up this topic as a way to get an idea of how and what you think is acceptable or desired and even possible which we are working on various things but we have no idea yet

[xoxide 377]

no offence I'm kind of driving myself nuts.. one moment the ideas work the next they do not.. I have a feeling this mod if its released will be both good and a curse at the same time

[originalpeachy 5]

I have tried the BOC mod and don't use it as the graphical rendering drives me nuts and also you can only plop certain directions, however it would be great if we could have the ability to add stuff even if only just outside the boundaries but without the rendering issues and to be able to zoom in the same as we can inside the boundaries then it would be usable but I don't think its possible.

 

This is just my opinion but to me no failure is acceptable, if it does not work properly I wont use it, so anything that can be done however small it may be is brilliant if functional but useless if not, again thats just my opinion as I know many of you love the BOC Mod and it is a good mod just to many glitches for me to find it acceptable.

 

In summary any gain however small it may be is great if functional on the other hand one must often fail many times to get a  small win.

 

Xoxide I have every one of your mods and they are all brilliant and add hugely to the game, so if you stick to the same formula you have used in the past I am sure it will be a success, go for it!!

[xoxide 377]

@original  some things are just not designed to function outside of the 2k limits period by design.  RCI Zoning for instance is a huge hurdle and is something that is locked and hard coded at the core level of the engine it was never made to be data driven.  I do not see a way to over come that aspect.

 

The Lot engine has its own restrictions

The RCI engine has its on restrictions

The Terrain Rendering does not function beyond the 2k limits (your comments above)

 

we have limits all around us ... We have to make sure the original city functions or original area.  To me that is almost 100% pinnacle of any possible advancements if we can't keep what is designed running and working then the mod fails.  If we can bring some advances to the areas by using combinations of mods then I think that is a win in many ways but this is one mod that its not going to function at 100% since there is no way of doing it without completely hacking the core and engine to accomplish what is needed.

 

I'm trying .. a few of us are trying .. we are trying to make space useable and functional but this is not just a hard one its designed not to be allowed. Its designed to not do anything at all actually.

 

Part of me thinks even if we make some headway that Orion should never be released to the public or community since its going to be handicapped from the beginning no matter what we do.

 

That's kind of my reason for starting the thread. 

[Moonraker39 17]

I would be happy if we just had more plopable buildings. I have made some pretty big cities using BOC but I run out of things to plop. The unlimited landmarks mod helped a lot but a city starts to look funny when you have 4 or 5 empire state buildings!

 

Some questions and suggestions...

 

Has any one figured out how to add buildings without replacing an existing building?

 

Is it possible to have more than one specialty building?

 

How about specialty buildings in stages? example- a completed metals building and also a 1st stage metals building in the same city?

 

More than one city hall

 

Could parks be replaced with buildings?

 

And this one always bugged me- Town hall building in sandbox mode!!!!

 

Just a few suggestions. Not sure how doable they are but thought id throw them out there!

[xoxide 377]

everything plops naturally as expected for most part..

[zergprotoss 0]

and what about chagin to first try to fix broken things in the city.. know that this topic is about city limits but this is not a deal breaker a least for me and im sure that a lot of people think the same... What ill love is seeing bugs like the one of the great works fixed or the unhappy sims leaving megatowers.... Loossing students becuase you have a bus terminal and they are banishing in the region...... Or the other one afecting the tech levels.... or what about commuting?

 

Thinking of making a bigger city is great but a think breaking city limits will make exsisting bugs a little worse... So why not first trying to overcome this and then plan in bigger cities.. 

Just my humble opinion and one more thing xoxide thanks a lot for all the great ideas and mods that you made you have made a great good to this game

 

Now answering your question ill love to see bigger cities is that commuting working a little better... so that way i can spcialice cities a little more and that way i can have one city as for population and the other one for extraction and a third one for manufacturing... Maybe asking too much but this is my idea

 

Thanks for the time 

Greetings from Panama

[xoxide 377]

@zergprotos (obviously you like starcraft 1 or 2 or both) haha.  Fixing the game is something for someone else to tackle its out side my scope and interests.

 

I'm one of the BUILDERS more than gamers.  So for me its about being able to build and explore design aspects more than playing a game and worrying about garbage trucks chasing each other (which was solved anyways) .. its just not my thing.

 

90% of the game is useable and what isn't useable isn't something that bothers me (great works) which I think in 1.5 years I have built 3 ( 1 was trying 2 were for devtest reasons ) so I mean I have to mod what interests me or at least I find interesting.

 

Some things come to you as a throw off or OH look what I found I really can change xyz and you kind of go in that direction.

 

I would say if something interests you then YOU should mod and start looking at the solution for that specific problem.  Of  course then you have to keep in mind what is actually accessible to you as a modder and if its even possible for you to fix or change that aspect of the game.

 

Its one thing to change values that exist but are hidden vs trying to come up with completely new routines that the engine will accept to change the behavior of agents.

 

So far we in the mod community are using the engines abilities against itself to do what we wish to or expanding on something that is already implemented.

 

To date there really isn't anything we have put out there as a mod that completely changes the games designs we have just pushed the designs of what is already there to the limits

 

I think we may be able to get 1.5% over current maps or about another 2k in 2 directions of the current city south and east with some additional zone functionality but many things are still completely broken.

[zergprotoss 0]

@zergprotos (obviously you like starcraft 1 or 2 or both) haha.  Fixing the game is something for someone else to tackle its out side my scope and interests.

 

I'm one of the BUILDERS more than gamers.  So for me its about being able to build and explore design aspects more than playing a game and worrying about garbage trucks chasing each other (which was solved anyways) .. its just not my thing.

 

90% of the game is useable and what isn't useable isn't something that bothers me (great works) which I think in 1.5 years I have built 3 ( 1 was trying 2 were for devtest reasons ) so I mean I have to mod what interests me or at least I find interesting.

 

Some things come to you as a throw off or OH look what I found I really can change xyz and you kind of go in that direction.

 

I would say if something interests you then YOU should mod and start looking at the solution for that specific problem.  Of  course then you have to keep in mind what is actually accessible to you as a modder and if its even possible for you to fix or change that aspect of the game.

 

Its one thing to change values that exist but are hidden vs trying to come up with completely new routines that the engine will accept to change the behavior of agents.

 

So far we in the mod community are using the engines abilities against itself to do what we wish to or expanding on something that is already implemented.

 

To date there really isn't anything we have put out there as a mod that completely changes the games designs we have just pushed the designs of what is already there to the limits

 

I think we may be able to get 1.5% over current maps or about another 2k in 2 directions of the current city south and east with some additional zone functionality but many things are still completely broken.

Yes i love starcraft a lot its because its building things as in this game but my favorite race is protoss

I think you are a very reasonable person and your answer have a lot of knowledge i really like that and its positive to the comunity... And you are correct sir... We all player have the potencial to became moders... And as soon as i have more time(im in the last part of the semester) i will read and learn the basics of modding... i dont have any idea about coding but i have the will to learn to make better things and help this comunity as you do... I thing you should try to implent anything you got in mind.. let the comunity choose if its the correct path when they see your work.... 

Im sure that in balance it will make a better game even in the long run,,, becuase im sure everyone and specially modders will learn something new about the coding in this game and help to reverse-engeenier 

 

I know it will take some time but eventualy will learn the core programing of the game or a new simcity come out  

 

Sorry if my english is not the best my native language is spanish

 

Greetings from Panama

[xoxide 377]

concept working

 

https://imgur.com/a/0EebT#0

[zergprotoss 0]

omg that huge!! all the pics... but in some of them aparently your are building RCI outside the city boundaries... im correct or i need glasses? wish me luck in my pharmacology examn that im about to do

[Nico Robin 70]

concept working

 

https://imgur.com/a/0EebT#0

Nice Job , i wait u have finish for download

[xoxide 377]

smoke and mirrors.. it is what the image shows .. what you see is what I can do

 

however that comes with limitations and rules.  limits and specific details.  its far from perfect but is most likely the best we will see any time in the next year

[Nico Robin 70]

smoke and mirrors.. it is what the image shows .. what you see is what I can do

 

however that comes with limitations and rules.  limits and specific details.  its far from perfect but is most likely the best we will see any time in the next year

i understand u need make LOD, and other