The big dig

[Astroman 0]

I think the city of Boston is going to have a lot of reduce of traffic be couse they tour down double decker freeway.the double decker free way coused more problems then it solved

[GAT-X105 3]

Are they done with it? Or not?

The raised highway really made things ugly. Below it was a wasteland and it really split the city in two and created a space where you didn't want to go. Because, amazingly enough, being trapped in perpetual darkness didn't make people jump for joy.

[ignacioj 0]

Oh yes they did. Boston now has a lot less traffic. The highway system is amazing. I wish Sim City had underground highways like these. The highway goes right under a 52story skyscraper and the financial district! it also crosses the bay! Intersections happen underground...it is amazing.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Good for Boston, but from my understanding it was a massive waste of tax dollars for the sake of aesthetics.

[6SpeedTA95 0]

Jason is correct, its basically been a HUGE waste of tax dollars.  Originally budgeted for about 5 billion dollars they have now spent just short of 16 billion and estimates for completion now range from 21 billion to 35 billion to complete, in the meantime the same senators (kennedy and kerry) that voted for the big dig repeatedly vote against the I40 relocation project in Oklahoma City which is projected to cost 400 million total. 

[GrandCentralParkway 1]

I used to live in Massachusetts, so when I saw this thread I clicked it immediately.  That project cost not only the federal government, but also Massachusetts taxpayers, a lot of money and a lot of it went to waste.  Apparently the tunnel has leaks now (due to a design flaw, I think) so it's going to cost even more to repair it...

But I agree it is a great improvement to traffic and that area looks a lot better now that they tore down the Central Artery.

[christhebull 1]

I've heard of the Big Dig.

I've also heard of Bechtel.

 

This company, rather subversively, has a lot of political leverage. They were in charge of the Big Dig, as well as the, um, Channel Tunnel and Jubille Line. 

So blame them.

 

[el jacko 0]

Date: 11/16/2005 2:10:42 PM
Author: GrandCentralParkway

I used to live in Massachusetts, so when I saw this thread I clicked it immediately. That project cost not only the federal government, but also Massachusetts taxpayers, a lot of money and a lot of it went to waste. Apparently the tunnel has leaks now (due to a design flaw, I think) so it's going to cost even more to repair it...

quote>
According to Wikipedia , not only was the increased cost of the project was partially due to inflation, but also the leaks were at the fault of the concrete companies and repairs are being paid for by their dollars. So not all is lost.

I personally do not live in Boston but I have relatives who do and for that reason I travel through it several times a year. Even with the extra costs I think the work they've done was worth it.

[sendarrow 3]

Big Dig, Big Dig, I will go someday since I don't live too far away, and then I will come back and post my experience. But for now, I think that is was a little bit problematic because of the money...

[Duke87 1,070]

Part of the problem is that a lot of it is going through land that didn't exist 400 years ago, that's just fill. Most of the land directly outside of downtown boston used to be underwater. The landmass of the downtown was greatly increased over the years. Even more so than New York (though New York had more land to begin with). What this means is that rather than tuneling through proper ground, you're often tunneling through mud and loose soil, so it can be hard to keep water out. It was exceptionally difficult to put the tunnels there in the first place. However, the other problem is not with the tunnels but with the Leonard P Zakim Bridge (the new bridge they built over the Charles River). Unlike most Cable Stay bridges, the cables, rather than going from center to center or side to side, attach to the tower in the center but to the bridge on the sides, meaning they cross over the roadway. What happened in the winter was that you'd get icicles forming on the cables. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, but snce the cables cross the roadway, instead of falling harmlessly into the river or onto the median, the icicles, when they fall off due to either melting or wind, they fall onto the roadway, and have in some cases splattered on people's windsheilds, and they're worried that this could cause an accident if it startles the driver and causes them to veer into another lane or lose control of the car. Especially since if the cables are icy, there's a good chance the road is as well. The proposed solution was to introduce a system similar to that of a rear windsheild defogger on a car. Put wires along the cables which, when conditions are prime for ice to form on the cables, you can switch on and they'll casue the cables to heat up so they don't ice over. Not sure if they've gotten around to installing this yet, though.

[zakuten 8]

I used to live in the South Shore myself, and I had relatives in the North End. Believe me, anything is better than the old Artery. Now, if they could only fix up 3...

[RL09 0]

Before Boston started the big dig, the city's highway system was in ruins. There were ugly metal highways that plagued the skyline of Boston. The new system of underground tunnels and raised highways with parks is a great idea because the city can now add a beautiful structure to its skyline (Zakim Bridge). The tax dollars were a very small part of the federal government's budget and the city of boston and the state of Massachusetts were saving money to do this project. It is true that inflation was a major factor in the construction of the project. Also the project is nearly finished and the leaks are being fixed by the cement companies. I do not live in Boston, I live in Bermuda, but i go to school in Boston. Whenever i drive through downtown and get to the other side of the city and i want to skip the traffic i always go through the tunnels and i'm able to skip nearly all of it. It really is a shame that there isn't the option of official underground highways although the method of building a the raised area then building the tunnel then lowering the area between the two tunnel entrances kinda works.

Sim City five hopefully will have the option of underground highways.

 

[Motina 77]

Date: 11/16/2005 2:01:37 PM Author: 6SpeedTA95 Jason is correct, its basically been a HUGE waste of tax dollars.  Originally budgeted for about 5 billion dollars they have now spent just short of 16 billion and estimates for completion now range from 21 billion to 35 billion to complete, in the meantime the same senators (kennedy and kerry) that voted for the big dig repeatedly vote against the I40 relocation project in Oklahoma City which is projected to cost 400 million total. 

quote>

It is a shame Detroit didn't have this kind of support from the feds when they were trying to standardize the streetcar system. Now Detroit is bankrupt.. of course it was more than just the standardization of the streetcar line that did it.

[MiniMark 7]

Date: 11/12/2005 7:10:56 PM Author:Astroman I think the city of Boston is going to have a lot of reduce of traffic be couse they tour down double decker freeway.the double decker free way coused more problems then it solved

quote>

It seems really neat to drive through it and explore the Big Dig although I have never been to Boston I always see documentary specials on it and of course a lot of pictures.

 

However in Toronto, Ontario the Gardiner Expressway (City Ownned) has been a big topic over the years as they want to try to bury the elevated section of the expressway.

[Motina 77]

Date: 11/20/2005 11:59:16 AM Author: MiniMark It seems really neat to drive through it and explore the 'Big Dig' although I have never been to Boston I always see documentary specials on it and of course a lot of pictures.

However in Toronto, Ontario the Gardiner Expressway (City Ownned) has been a big topic over the years as they want to try to bury the elevated section of the expressway.

quote>

The only reason they wanted to do that is because they want to connect the lake back to the city. Unfortunately the condo building craze ruined that idea in the case of Fort York.

[MiniMark 7]

Date: 11/20/2005 12:13:45 PM Author: Motina The only reason they wanted to do that is because they want to connect the lake back to the city. Unfortunately the condo building craze ruined that idea in the case of Fort York.

quote>

Yes its quite unfortunate (from the GTA). However with all due to respect there needs to be something done as soon as possible as well as the DVP.

[xiziz 11]

A Very interesting project that is, and actually, we have similar things going on here in Stockholm, Sweden. Although beeing Scandinavias largest city, its not really that big. But they Dug down the Southern Quarter of our going to be ringway, and they are currently building the North Quarter, which is also underground, the West Quarter has been there for ages, but is overground. The East Quarter is in planning phase. And they are planning a Bypass for the entire city.

All the new portions will be mostley underground, to reduce noise pollution and save space aboveground, since space is very sparce here, it seems like ^^

I Really think its a great idea to dig down Motorways in Urban Areas.

Now if my goverment could only put some more money into infrastructure and less on their salaries ^^

Cheers
//Sim

[GaryReggae 80]

Interesting, there's also a Big Dig going on in Liverpool at the moment only theirs is a massive urban regeneration scheme.

[Compromise 1]

Despite the costs I think the big dig was worth it and really gave Boston a new look and even the soil from the construction helped make a island a national park. The costs were mega but if you want to blame anyone it was the pepople who gave a lack of city planning to Boston's future in the 1960's.

[ICFan 0]

I also believe that the Big Dig was worth it, you can do somewhat of a big dig underground highway system  But it will have no exits, you lower the two points (straight form) and build the highway as a tunnel, which should appear green.  Just to say I LOVE the Big Dig, I live about 3 hours away from Boston (I live in CT)

[Jasoncw 11,840]

All that money could have been spent on health care, or education, or tax incentives, or homeless people, or police, or even on improving real mass transportation.

I think burrying the highways is a good idea, especially where the old highway gets turned into parks, but not for soooooooo much money that could be better spent on other things.

[tracer1138 1]

as long as this link works (crosses fingers)

http://community.webshots.com/photo/468688437/513324794QJITot     here is an excellent diagram of the Big Dig for those who are unaware of it's layout.

I have been to boston and did travel a segment of the project (the part that was tunneled where the central artery used to be)  and I have to say it was rather exhilarating... so in my opinion it was worth it purly for the thrill factor (urban planning and transportation freak!)

[Micah 16]

The big dig sounds and looks cool... but sounds expensive and other big problems at the same time.

Risk tons of money for cool stuff? I'm not sure.

[tchaos713 5]

The Big Dig was a greatly needed improvement over the old Central Artery/I-93. Now at least you don't come to a complete stop crossing the Charles and then almost die taking the exit to Storrow Dr.

As for Mass Transit funding, Boston still has one of the cheapest and most comprehensive mass transit systems in the US (not that this is saying much). It is a good blend of heavy rail, light rail and bussing. One T token still only costs USD1.00. From my girlfriend's parents' house in Melrose, MA, you have all three options for getting downtown.

[haropro 0]

    To call this a waste of money is crazy talk. The old central artery was not only a eye sore seperating the north end and waterfront from the rest of boston, but it sucked for traffic too. I live about 5 minutes away from boston(i live in east boston, just a tunnel away) and my sister used to go to latin academy, which is in dorchester. Anyway, to get there and back to watch her play sports was ridiculous. On the old artery it was i think three lane sin each direction, and it took so long to get from eastie(east boston) to dorchester. When the Ted Willams tunnel was open to the public we took that on the way home, and it cut about 20-30 minutes off of the trip back. The main parts of the big dig, road wise, are complete and the traffic in boston flows so much better and quicker.

    If the people didnt step up and do this project, boston would have been stuck in the past with a piece of grabage green artery. Now where the artery stood there can be nice greenspaces and leisure places. I think boston stepped up and did this project in thinking of the future. Sooner or later it would of had to be done.

 

    I am only 14 years old, but i think i underdtand that boston needed this, and to call it a waste of money is so bad.

[vanshnookenraggen 0]

The first time I walked around Canal St. after they ripped down the Artery I realized that it was worth every cent.

[dussin23 1]

It really is a shame that the Big Dig is so far over budget, but really, there wasn't much of an alternative. I'm not a fan of expanding freeways, but sometimes it has to be done. Boston's old one would have been a total nightmare had they not done it underground.

This sort of thing isn't done for aesthetic purposes. It's about creating viable, sustainable cities.

[Micah 16]

Oh, ok. Well then, I guess the Big Dig sounds good then if it will relieve a lot of traffic and increase business. Hope it works without any more money.

[Compromise 1]

Date: 12/30/2005 10:32:35 AM Author: Micah Hope it works without any more money.

quote>

Unfortunatley because of the saftey risk of running moterway tunnels especially since the Mount Blanc disaster running cost are not going to be low but I still agree that it was worth it.