Water pollution

[simcityerr 2]

It would be nice if there was also a heavy capacity water treatment plant, like the high capacity water pump, because it my city of 167K sims, looks like I'm gonna need like 7 or 8 of them to keep my water totally clean. It would be nice if you could have your water treated in another city as well. And, maybe if you could have an airport in another city that sims would use, instead of having to have one in every one that has a good number of commercial zones.

[Cool_Z 1,547]

I think you can find some other water treatment plants in the STEX.

 

Yes the other things you mention would be great but there is no way to change this I believe 

[Prophet42 1,501]

There are parking lots that act as airports available on the STEX.  This way you can satisfy the airport demand without actually having to build an airport.

[Cool_Z 1,547]

There are parking lots that act as airports available on the STEX.  This way you can satisfy the airport demand without actually having to build an airport.

 

I just learned these existed, that's good news !! 

[z1 566]

It would be nice if there was also a heavy capacity water treatment plant, like the high capacity water pump, because it my city of 167K sims, looks like I'm gonna need like 7 or 8 of them to keep my water totally clean.

 

My favorite is which produces 1,000,000 cubic meters of water per month (five times the Maxis large pump capacity), and treats it all, thereby eliminating the need for additional water treatment plants.  There's also which produces and treats 100,000 cubic meters of water per month.  They look very nice on Earth, too.

[simcityerr 2]

I think you can find some other water treatment plants in the STEX.

 

Yes the other things you mention would be great but there is no way to change this I believe 

 

Well, how were various mods like NAM, and STEX made? Wouldn't the people who made them, need at least some of SC4's source code to do it? Either that, or they decompiled the game, perhaps, and were able to do it somehow that way. As I understand it, decompiling doesn't (if it ever does) always get you the source code.

 

Could there be a mod which could give you these things?

 

For some reason this thread I made doesn't appear under my "My Content" link.

[Cool_Z 1,547]

There is a way to fake the airport thing.

 

The modders have used the fact that lots of game mechanics are not hard coded into the executable but can be modified with new game data files... but they had to find ways to go around limitations

[z1 566]

Well, how were various mods like NAM, and STEX made?

 

The NAM, like all mods, was made by modifying and adding to the data in the publicly available data files, such as SImCity_1.dat.  The modification is done not on the original data files, but by creating files that override the original.

 

The STEX is not a mod; it's essentially a database.

 

Wouldn't the people who made them, need at least some of SC4's source code to do it?

 

No.

 

Either that, or they decompiled the game, perhaps, and were able to do it somehow that way.

 

Again, no.  Decompiling isn't really possible.  Disassembling the source code is, but violates the game's license.

 

As I understand it, decompiling doesn't (if it ever does) always get you the source code.

 

At most, you can get to assembler code.  SC4 is written in C++.

 

Could there be a mod which could give you these things?

 

Which things are you referring to?  If you're talking about water treatment in another city, then no.  Only those things that are controlled by the data files can be modded.

[jmsepe 2,039]

There are parking lots that act as airports available on the STEX.  This way you can satisfy the airport demand without actually having to build an airport.

 

Oh, that's a good one. 

[ADYX 1]

if a city with 167k sims need 7-8 treatment plants i can assume you have a big concentration of ID/agriculture since cities double in population usually dont require more than 2-3 (if any).

 

somewhat important: water pollution (the one you see in graphs and territory view) is NOT the water pollution in the pipelines, its the pollutions of the underground waters from where you are extracting the water (dont know the right english term, in italian it would be "falda acquifera"). so basically red/yellow areas are the ones you are not supposed to drill into while looking for water.

this being said you can do the 2 things you asked:

1) importing water from a neighbour, in which case you dont need to bother with your water pollution at all (as long as the place where the water is produced is clean, the water will get clean to where you need it). you can even have a completely red map and no bad things will happen (except the girl advisor telling to reduce it, but that is just a useless message)

2) producing your own water in places that are water pollution free, such as the opposite edge of the map compared to ID/farm/power plants/garbage. if you do so remember to provide energy to the water pump to work 

 

EDIT: a really nice analogy that came to my mind:

imagine the water pollution view like a gold ore map. you are the digger and have to look for gold, so you look at the map and you see that in some areas there is no gold (red areas), so you just dig elsewhere. while mining (building stuff) you see that the in the map that less gold is avaiable (more red areas) so you start again digging elsewhere, to the point that there is no gold left (full red area due to ID farming all over the place) and you change map.

[simcityerr 2]

Either that, or they decompiled the game, perhaps, and were able to do it somehow that way.

 

Again, no.  Decompiling isn't really possible. 

 

Why isn't it?

 

Disassembling the source code is, but violates the game's license.

 

What's the difference between that and decompiling, exactly?

 

 

At most, you can get to assembler code.  SC4 is written in C++.

 

 

 

Assembler code? You mean assembly code? The assembly programming language?

[z1 566]

Either that, or they decompiled the game, perhaps, and were able to do it somehow that way.

Again, no.  Decompiling isn't really possible.

 

Why isn't it?

 

Because it's extremely difficult, especially for modern higher-level languages; in many cases it may not even be possible to determine the source code that generated the binary.

 

Disassembling the source code is, but violates the game's license.

What's the difference between that and decompiling, exactly?

Disassembling results in assembler code.  Decompiling would result in the actual source code, in this case, C++.

 

At most, you can get to assembler code.  SC4 is written in C++.

 

Assembler code? You mean assembly code? The assembly programming language?

 

That's right.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

There are decompilers if you know the original source language.  However, they are never satisfactory except as fourth year computer science exercises.  Since there is no way to reconstruct the symbols used by the original programmers, you are rather out of luck.  It is more trouble than it is worth without the symbol table and the debugging schema.  The original source language (from the program header) is C++ 6.0 by Microsoft.  However, we have no access to the debug tables.

 

I've always been at a loss to understand why they bother with the dump on the exception report past the contents of the CPU panel.  You have to be a real insider to understand any of the dump.

 

A disassembly is of utterly no real use.  Here you have to understand all the calling sequences of the higher level language and the minute details of the hardware as well.  Most programmers have only had minimal if any exposure to assembly programming, and certainly not on a current microprocessor.  {side note:  Ah!  the old days when there was nothing but machine code.  Two generations ago. /side note}.

[simcityerr 2]

I wonder, after a long time books become public domain, does the same ever happen with software, so eventually it will be legal to disassemble the source code?

[cromabianca 158]

I wonder, after a long time...

Yeah, the key word here is: LONG

75 to 100 years (I mat be wrong, but not by much! )

[z1 566]

I wonder, after a long time books become public domain, does the same ever happen with software, so eventually it will be legal to disassemble the source code?

 

That's because the copyright expires.  The copyright will eventually expire on SC4, but the license agreement does not.  So unless EA changes the license agreement, it will never be legal to disassemble the source code.  The license agreement actually covers everything the copyright does and more, so expiration of the copyright will have no practical effect.

[cromabianca 158]

 

I wonder, after a long time books become public domain, does the same ever happen with software, so eventually it will be legal to disassemble the source code?

 

That's because the copyright expires.  The copyright will eventually expire on SC4, but the license agreement does not.  So unless EA changes the license agreement, it will never be legal to disassemble the source code.  The license agreement actually covers everything the copyright does and more, so expiration of the copyright will have no practical effect.

 

 

And that also is true!

[Cool_Z 1,547]

 

 

I wonder, after a long time books become public domain, does the same ever happen with software, so eventually it will be legal to disassemble the source code?

 

That's because the copyright expires.  The copyright will eventually expire on SC4, but the license agreement does not.  So unless EA changes the license agreement, it will never be legal to disassemble the source code.  The license agreement actually covers everything the copyright does and more, so expiration of the copyright will have no practical effect.

 

 

And that also is true!

 

 

Our only hope is that EA and Maxis go boom and disappear in a big cloud of smoke. 

 

The game will then be considered abandonware  :kitty:

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Not only that, but the source is held as a "trade secret" as is much  source code by most companies.  I've written a lot of code in my time and absolutely none of it is public domain.

[simcityerr 2]

 

 

 

I wonder, after a long time books become public domain, does the same ever happen with software, so eventually it will be legal to disassemble the source code?

 

That's because the copyright expires.  The copyright will eventually expire on SC4, but the license agreement does not.  So unless EA changes the license agreement, it will never be legal to disassemble the source code.  The license agreement actually covers everything the copyright does and more, so expiration of the copyright will have no practical effect.

 

 

And that also is true!

 

 

Our only hope is that EA and Maxis go boom and disappear in a big cloud of smoke. 

 

The game will then be considered abandonware  :kitty:

 

 

I think abandonware is still technically illegal to download and use. Also, usually when a company goes out of business their assets and rights are bought by another company.

[simcityerr 2]

There are decompilers if you know the original source language.  However, they are never satisfactory except as fourth year computer science exercises.  Since there is no way to reconstruct the symbols used by the original programmers, you are rather out of luck.  It is more trouble than it is worth without the symbol table and the debugging schema.  The original source language (from the program header) is C++ 6.0 by Microsoft.  However, we have no access to the debug tables.

 

I've always been at a loss to understand why they bother with the dump on the exception report past the contents of the CPU panel.  You have to be a real insider to understand any of the dump.

 

A disassembly is of utterly no real use.  Here you have to understand all the calling sequences of the higher level language and the minute details of the hardware as well.  Most programmers have only had minimal if any exposure to assembly programming, and certainly not on a current microprocessor.  {side note:  Ah!  the old days when there was nothing but machine code.  Two generations ago. /side note}.

 

Hmm, only machine code, like in what- the 20's when they use vacuum tubes? Some reasons higher level languages were created were making it easier/simpler, and the fact that just one little mistake of typing a 0 or 1 will change the whole program.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

 

<snip>

 

Hmm, only machine code, like in what- the 20's when they use vacuum tubes? Some reasons higher level languages were created were making it easier/simpler, and the fact that just one little mistake of typing a 0 or 1 will change the whole program.

 

Well, lad, the first computer I used in the 1960s (a Univac II) had triple redundant chassis filled with vacuum tubes.  The first decent computer wasn't built until WW II at Bletchly Park by Alan Turing and his cohorts.  Undoubtedly vacuum tubes, but this was ordered destroyed by Churchill because he was afraid the Russians might get it so it remains a secret by ceasing to exist.

 

Give thanks for Lee Deforest who invented the vacuum tube.  Without them, the transistor would never have been invented.  We'd still be using slide rules.

[cromabianca 158]

Give thanks for Lee Deforest who invented the vacuum tube.  Without them, the transistor would never have been invented.  We'd still be using slide rules.

 

 

Amen to that!!! Viva the vacuum tube!!

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

And by the way, Tony, vacuum tube amps seem to be a lot better than some of the best digital ones I've seen.  Sound is analogue, so an analogue amp seems to be the best way to do it.