Should SimCity be more 'realistic;

[mcallisterw 41]

We hear this a lot, usually people arguing that the things others have picked out as faults with the new SimCity are more realistic. In reality cities are built within specified boundaries and if as mayor you don't like the fact there is only one road in from a highway which falls outside your city, you just have to work with that limitation... In real life you can't terraform the land before you build, and so on.

 

All I will say is, I like my cities to look like real cities (key word being 'look'), but if realism were the main way on which SimCity should be judged then in real life one person can't decide everything about the city.

 

Real mayors don't decide which land to allocate for housing, where to put schools and roads etc. If SimCity were designed this way then your job as mayor would be to chair meetings to decide what to do about an issue, listen to proposals that were put forward by other councillors, council officers or members of the public; vote along with the other councillors on which proposal to accept and then hire a consultant to do the actual designing. And the best bit is you don't even get to pick which consultant! You do get a casting vote though if the votes are tied, and perhaps being mayor gives you more influence over other councillors.

 

Good idea for SimCity 6?

[GenXisT 127]

there's not quite enough space to discredit all that is wrong with your post... but I'll just nitpick one of the most obnoxiously glaring errors.

 

"In real life you can't terraform the land before you build, and so on"

 

So in your mind (and I guess your reality?) roads (for instance) are just built as is on whatever land they decide to fall on?

Interesting.  how on earth did they build the Eisenhower Tunnel?  In fact, how are any subway systems built?

Panama Canal?  How did that happen?  Must've been a well planned earthquake.

Hoover Dam?  Another marvel mystery of terrestrial witchcraft.

 

I'm pretty certain there are a few items that exist for the very purpose of terraforming prior to building...well ... ANYTHING!!!!!

 

like this guy

 

 

or these guys:

 

 

or my personal favorite:

 

 

The planet was even nice enough to form this palm tree formation in the middle of the ocean in a desert region, knowing that one day a really wealthy nation might decide to build condos on it.

How nice of mother earth!!

 

 

I must say, I'll definitely have to look closer at the world because all this time I thought we worked the land to build stuff on and all this time, houses just ended up on the perfect plot of land.

With a perfectly sloped driveway and everything!  AMAZING!!! 

 

[VanGioRobNelli 29]

We hear this a lot, usually people arguing that the things others have picked out as faults with the new SimCity are more realistic. In reality cities are built within specified boundaries and if as mayor you don't like the fact there is only one road in from a highway which falls outside your city, you just have to work with that limitation... In real life you can't terraform the land before you build, and so on.

 

All I will say is, I like my cities to look like real cities (key word being 'look'), but if realism were the main way on which SimCity should be judged then in real life one person can't decide everything about the city.

 

Real mayors don't decide which land to allocate for housing, where to put schools and roads etc. If SimCity were designed this way then your job as mayor would be to chair meetings to decide what to do about an issue, listen to proposals that were put forward by other councillors, council officers or members of the public; vote along with the other councillors on which proposal to accept and then hire a consultant to do the actual designing. And the best bit is you don't even get to pick which consultant! You do get a casting vote though if the votes are tied, and perhaps being mayor gives you more influence over other councillors.

 

Good idea for SimCity 6?

 If I read your last paragraph correctly.... you are trying to remove the BUILDING aspect out of SimCity....   

 

So you want to play SimVote?  or Simocracy?  

 

I think you should run for mayor in your town.

[xoxide 377]

You know some of those items were shown in the original teaser and never delivered

 

maybe someday

 

I think the game should make use of local resources as an influence as well for building and allow so many more things like locking in sections for track homes, apartments and different styles.

 

I think we should be able to influence organic growth even if we don't control it 100%

[MandelSoft 2,775]

In real life you can't terraform the land before you build...

You've obviously never been to Holland. If there's one place where terraforming is present, it's the Netherlands. Heck, half of the Netherlands is below sea level!

Compare the two maps below and see how much the landscape has changed throughout the centuries:

So yeah, terraforming is actually possible in real life.

Best,

Maarten

[BravoGreenONE 120]

Im currious what does that rediculouly looking machine do? Im talking about the one that looks like a giant saw at a first glance.

[GenXisT 127]

Im currious what does that rediculouly looking machine do? Im talking about the one that looks like a giant saw at a first glance.

 

Specifications:

~ The mover stands 311 feet tall and 705 feet long. 

~ It weighs over 45,500 tons

~ Cost $100 million to build 

~ Took 5 years to design and manufacture 

~ 5 years to assemble. 

~ Requires 5 people to operate it. 

~ The Bucket Wheel is over 70 feet in diameter with 20 buckets,each of which can hold over 530 cubic feet of material. 

~ A 6-foot man can stand up inside one of the buckets. 

~ It moves on 12 crawlers (each is 12 feet wide, 8' high and 46 feet long).There are 8 crawlers in front and 4 in back. 

It has a maximum speed of 1 mile in 3 hours (1/3 mile/hour). 

~ It can remove over 76,455 cubic meters each day.(100,000 large dump trucks at 40yds. each)

 

 

[mcallisterw 41]

 

I suggest you all read my original post again (you may have to read it a few times, I understand limited intellects such as yourself won't get it on the first go).

 

It does make me chuckle though at how much effort you guys put in to attacking a straw man (if you don't know what a straw man is, Google it, it'll only be a tiny bit of extra Googling for one day).

 

 If I read your last paragraph correctly.... you are trying to remove the BUILDING aspect out of SimCity....   

 

So you want to play SimVote?  or Simocracy?  

 

I think you should run for mayor in your town.

 

 

No you didn't read my last paragraph correctly.

 

P.S. Having now taken time to read through I'm gonna excuse BravoGreenOne of this comment, however GenXisT gets s double helping of stoopid for actually employing irony in his/her response... it's a riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a quote box.

[macscfan 117]

mcallisterw, this doesn't quite address your OP, but I will say that, given the resources that EA has, including the technology, and given the amount of time between SC4 and when they started on the current SimCity, they could have easily given us several options within one game.

 

That is, they could have had a very serious city simulator (SimCity 4 or Cities XL), something similar to SimCity Societies, and something similar to Cities in Motion.   They could have had that all in one game, with players having the option to choose it when starting the game.

 

You start the game, you just want to mess with transit issues, so you select SimCity Transit Mode (or whatever).  The game spits out some cities (or perhaps you choose some cities you built yourself, or you import other peoples cities), either randomized, or based on historical cities, and because the game is in transit mode, you are only focusing on transit issues.  You can even deal with transit issues between cities, or use transit to build up cities.  

 

In the mood for a serious city simulator?  You pick SimCity Simulator Mode.  You get access to all of the options that were present in SC4 and then some.  You are free to design huge cities or small towns.  You are free to design rail and pedestrian only or city only.  It's your call, and all of the hardcore options that hardcore city simulator fans want are there.

 

Want more of a "social" feel, with online play with your friends with a lot less tinkering around with the serious stuff?  SimCity Social Mode or SimCity World Mode  (or SimCity Societies Mode if you don't want to tread on the Facebook property that's going away in a few weeks).  This is the only option that requires online connections the whole time, and the only option that requires online storage of your cities - all other modes save your cities offline, and allow you to play offline.  Have different modes/settings within this, to where you cooperate with your friends, or where you compete with them.  Wheel and deal with your friends as everybody builds their cities, perhaps have scenarios where you and your friends are building cities in certain parts of the world (think like Railroad Tycoon 2 where you could build railroads in specific regions of the US) or even made up worlds/regions.  Have a built-in real-time chat mode where you can trash talk your friends' cities as you compete with one another., or if you are cooperating, discuss what you are doing that might compliment your friend's city.

 

Toss in this: SimCity Historical Mode, which lets you build up cities based in different eras (or even fantasy settings) throughout thousands of years of human civilization.    Lots of good things in this one - various "campaign modes" where you might try and match historical development of major cities (Paris, Rome, London, etc.), or where you try to "fix" or prevent things from happening (i.e. building London so that if major fires break out, things don't go to pieces).

 

That last one could have made EA a lot of money - imagine charging $10 or $20 for the "Ancient Rome" add-on, or "North America 1600s" add-on, or Central/South America before the Europeans showed up add-on, Feudal Japan, pre-1900s Russia, etc.

 

The idea is that all four of these modes are based on the same code-base, but when you pick a mode, it turns certain aspects on or off.  There are many examples of games like this where you can play with various things turned on or off, and which can easily change the flavor of the game, and it also means that everybody is more likely to be satisfied (and who knows, the casual players playing in SimCity World Mode or whatever might migrate into the Historical or Simulator Mode).

 

Yes, it would have taken longer to develop, but it would have had some incredible staying power, and would have provided for some incredibly DLC as time goes on, especially in the SimCity Historical Mode I mentioned.

[Bipin 3,403]

 

In real life you can't terraform the land before you build...

You've obviously never been to Holland. If there's one place where terraforming is present, it's the Netherlands. Heck, half of the Netherlands is below sea level!

Compare the two maps below and see how much the landscape has changed throughout the centuries:

 

 

 

Everyone knows humans are incapable of terraforming. I mean gosh, have you ever seen a real dam? Did you know that all pictures of major earthworks projects were 'shopped by the government? Fact is, it is true; they do this to make it appear as though humans are smart enough to move earth around, when in reality, we aren't. Really now dude, have you ever even wondered why diamond minds are under such tight security? Liek srsly. No one is after the diamonds, those are just glass beads made by the government to increase perceived national worth. Everyone knows that. What they are really after is guarding the locations these doctored birds-eye view pictures, such as those seen in Google Earth, which clearly do not exist. Let me reiterate it again. No humans in reality can or ever have, or ever will undertake earthworks or terraforming projects.

 

I know the above text portrays a startling notion, but using mccallisterw's logic and foreward thinking in my aforementioned writings have opened up a whole new world of truth for myself. By doing so yourself, you can also come to some starling, albeit completely logical* revelations!

 

*Logic is a subjective term in this context.

[BravoGreenONE 120]

Im currious what does that rediculouly looking machine do? Im talking about the one that looks like a giant saw at a first glance.

Specifications:

~ The mover stands 311 feet tall and 705 feet long.

~ It weighs over 45,500 tons

~ Cost $100 million to build

~ Took 5 years to design and manufacture

~ 5 years to assemble.

~ Requires 5 people to operate it.

~ The Bucket Wheel is over 70 feet in diameter with 20 buckets,each of which can hold over 530 cubic feet of material.

~ A 6-foot man can stand up inside one of the buckets.

~ It moves on 12 crawlers (each is 12 feet wide, 8' high and 46 feet long).There are 8 crawlers in front and 4 in back.

It has a maximum speed of 1 mile in 3 hours (1/3 mile/hour).

~ It can remove over 76,455 cubic meters each day.(100,000 large dump trucks at 40yds. each)

Thanks for the info and the video.

Mcallister: I didnt make any comments about your post. I only inquired about a picture.

[mcallisterw 41]

*Sigh* I've had enough of being snarky now and hoping that the penny drops with you guys so I'm just gonna have to spell it out now.

 

@Bravogreenone, yeah having looked through the posts I had noticed that you were the only one not calling me retarded.

 

Actually I've decided what probably happened is that no-one actually read the original post. Most people probably just read GenXisT's post and inferred what was going on from that.

 

My original post starts 'We hear this a lot, usually people arguing that the things others have picked out as faults with the new SimCity are more realistic.'

 

I.e. I was saying that when we complain about the lack of terraforming, city size etc. other people use the claim of realism to say why they think it's better.

 

This is what we call a straw man, a hypothetical opponent created to argue against, in my case the whole terraforming shebacle was one of the things the straw man has said (that's the straw man, not me, the straw man). It's not even an important part of my post, the point was that realism shouldn't be an measure of quality of SimCity, it's already unrealistic in that you don't have to delegate decisions to a committee, but nobody would want a SimCity where you had to do that.

 

I think GenXisT has skim-read the post and gotten the straw man confused with me. Unfortunately it's kicked off this retard-o-fest which is a shame, because it means when I try and point of your errors it makes it look like I'm some kind of troll, and I'm not, I didn't start the thread with any intention of causing all of this.

 

And while we're on the subject of terraforming, when the straw man said in real life you can't terraform, I know I don't agree with the straw man (that's the whole point of having a straw man), but I did have in mind someone thinking it was unrealistic that you can build mountains and such, not someone thinking it was unrealistic to reclaim land from the sea or prepare land with earth-moving equipment. For the record I do want terraforming to be available in the game, my point is that I don't care whether or not people can build mountains in real life. I'm a town-planner by trade, I used to work on an earth-works site and have managed some of the machinery GenXisT puts in his/her post (not the last one though, that is insane), so I know fine well what can be achieved.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

I don't think "lack of realism" has ever, mentioned by anyone, on any occasion, under any circumstance, meant more realism in terms of what you need to do to achieve something compared to an actual mayor.

 

Some examples:

Nobody ever called for having meetings of the city council and votes on decisions.

Nobody ever called for having to adher to a land use plan of any kind.

Nobody ever called for the construcion of a new highway to take several years.

Nobody ever called for the necessity of lengthy legal and administrative proceedings before you can bulldoze an occupied house.

 

Whenever people referred to a lack of realism, they were, in fact, referring to a lack of realism in the look of a finished city.

 

With SC4, you could make rail dams and bridge ramps inside your city by targeted terraforming - like in reality. WIth SC2013, you can't.

With SC4, you could straighten coast lines and deepen rivers or the sea near the coast to accommodate a harbour - like in reality. With SC2013, you can't.

With SC4, you could make adjacent maps flow into each other visually to create one cohrerent metropolis region - like in reality. With SC2013, you can't.

 

Things like these are meant (and have always been meant) when people have complained about lack of realism in SC2013. This entire thread is somehow off..

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Ultimately, I think that the constraint parameters should be set by the user, and the user only as much as possible. Whilst it may not be "realistic" to move mountains and carve seas, ultimately if I want a fort nestled between peaks or a port town where there wasn't one, I want it. 

[mcallisterw 41]

I know no-one has ever said there should be a committee etc. that was my example of 'you say you want realism, well this is an extreme example of realism'.

 

But I have encountered people who weigh in on discussions about the way region play works and the other limitations of the game, defending the limitations by saying that it is more in line with how real cities work.

 

Yes there are also people who are criticising SC2013 in relation to SC4 using realism as an argument too, but those weren't the people I meant. In truth I don't think whether or not something is realistic should be an argument at all, not as far as the city-building process is concerned anyway (like I said I personally like to create cities that look realistic, but sometimes in SC4 the process of creating this city meant doing some things which were 'unrealistic', my point is that i don't care about those things)

 

I think I speak a different language to everyone else. No doubt the next person will read this post and instead of what I've written they'll see 'I think terraforming is a government conspiracy' and will post a response to that instead.

[mcallisterw 41]

Things like these are meant (and have always been meant) when people have complained about lack of realism in SC2013. This entire thread is somehow off..

 

No different people mean different things, some people mean the things you said, some people mean the things I said, I was never trying to say 'all people mean this',,, but you are.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

Come on guys, seriously...

The topic is "Should SimCity be more realistic", not "Is terraforming realistic in real life".
This is a general reminder to discuss the topic, not each other.

It doesn't matter who's right or wrong here. There's no need to make a heated debate over something so trivial.
Personal attacks are also not acceptable, and such posts have been removed.

So from this point on, please take this into consideration.

Thanks

[Gregorfp 15]

You see, i'm not a native english speaker, so you statement (there was a real one?) seemed to me absolutely on the contrary of what you were trying to say now. Now it seems you are so ready to run for mayor - as Vangiorobnelli said previously - with all those turn around and beating round the bush ... lol
But I've didn't make fun of it though it was irresistable... (just kidding, don't take me seriously on that one MCallister)

 

Enough of this, What most of ppl say here is that this whole game is flaw, retarded, in ALL os the aspects compared to sc4!!! I never expected to see such a misunderstood ideia/concept of WHAT simcity fans really EXPECTED from it.

I've spent almost a year de-intoxicating from sc4 without playing it waiting for the new game and now I just found out i miss sc4 so bad and it was a true mistake to buy this retarded stuff!

(and I am no harcore terraformer fan).

You see, if there is ONE thing they ALMOST got it right was the city specialization. The ALMOST got it!!! Damm so close...

In every other aspect of the game, is it unplayable, dumb, capped.

That is why ppl complain the game should be more realistic. And that's why other ppl complain it is too realistic in some ways... JUST BECAUSE THEY SCREWED IT UP SO BADLY!!!

 

 

(I'll stop now, it 10 in the morning and I'll have a stroke here any moment)

[nataniels3 61]

We hear this a lot, usually people arguing that the things others have picked out as faults with the new SimCity are more realistic. In reality cities are built within specified boundaries

That is a good idea: just because boundaries are specified doesn't mean they can't be expanding. Allowing cities to annex land would be an interesting feature (you might have to load different sections of the city though) and would cut down on all the wasted space while leading to a region whose cities appear to flow into one another.

[GenXisT 127]

Speaking about himself in the 3rd person,  agreeing and disagreeing with himself in both the 3rd and 1st person and subsequently calling this whole thing a "retardo-fest" ultimately initiated by me "skim reading" the original post???

 

What planet is this?!

 

"You cannot terraform the land before you build..."

 

THIS STATEMENT IS FALSE:

Adjective

Not according with truth or fact; incorrect.

Not according with rules or law.

 

Anything you've stated after this is suspect, and therefor completely irrelevant, because it fails to address a very basic premise that has allowed us as humans to sustain life and shape the earth to suit our needs.

Whether or not you've stated this within the confines of SC2013 vs Real Life (which you didn't) doesn't really change this fact.

 

SC4 allowed for terraforming, which is a real-life activity, believe it or not.  Look at the pics or don't.  Watch the video or don't. 

SC2013 doesn't allow it,  so yes to answer your question, SC2013 should indeed be more realistic, like SC4 and Earth and allow terraforming.

 

The other things you've mentioned with the councils and such are totally not the point of the game, never have been so no reason to bring that in.  This isn't an MMO, despite their incredibly failed efforts to try to make it so.

This is a single player game, with one person (Mayor) YOU, the player of the game, making decisions about your city... regardless of the suggestions of the mock-up "council members".

 

Cities are indeed built within specified boundaries, but they don't instantly stop and then have emptiness until you run into the next city with its specified boundaries.  Believe it or not, most cities even run right into each other.

And a further shock is that almost NONE of them are a perfectly shaped square.  Additionally, very FEW of them have a highway entrance/exist... unless there just happens to be a highway that passes thru the city.

 

We all know this is a game and as such is naturally unrealistic.  However, it is a really BAD game when compared to its predecessor.  The level of nerfing in favor of ...  ??? well,  who knows?  There's no real advancement in this game vs SC4.  Remove the farms, remove the highways, remove the terraforming, remove the mods, remove the region view that actually resembled a real-life regional map from anywhere in the world, remove all of the stuff that made SC4 nearly perfect and replace it with .... ????

[VanGioRobNelli 29]

Sarcasm does not work well over the internet. 

 

GenXist and Gregorfp,

 

They did not make SimCity5 to cater to the hardcore SimCity 4 fans.  I think Maxis KNEW they could not compete with many years of mods and custom content created by so many of you.  They KNEW that most hardcore SC4 fans would hate the new SimCity.  They KNEW you all were NOT GOING TO ABANDON your custom content.  I think much of the SC4 community had extremely high expectations (rightfully so...) for the new version which Maxis KNEW they could not live up to.  Therefore, they creatively made a new "way to play" version of SimCity.

 

Guys, Maxis/EA would not make money if they only catered SC5 to all you SC4 lovers out there... they just wouldn't.  It would not make sense from a business standpoint.  Therefore, they created an entirely new product that has shifted some SC4 fans over as well as creating and ENTIRELY NEW HARDCORE FANBASE....  probably their intentions from the get go....  So guess what?  They win.  SC4 is still very much playable and still has custom content being developed.  At the same time, SC5 is creating a whole new "niche" or hardcore fanbase.  It is actually quite genius...

  Edited May 24, 2013 by VanGioRobNelli  

[GenXisT 127]

@VanGioRoNelli 

 

While I appreciate the spirit of your post, you're not going to convince any of us that Maxis/EA had the gamers in mind when they created this garbage.

I'm not sure how old you are, but I have been playing Sim City for 24 years... since I was in the 8th grade.  You basically cannot and WILL NOT get any more "hardcore SimCity fan" than that.

I'd literally have to die, today,  right now... and you'd still have to wait 24 years and 4 versions of this game to catch up to me... 

 

What they've done here is cast an incredibly wide net to dupe would-be new customers into spending between $60-$80 on a game that, unlike actual Sim City fans, will only play for a couple of hours and then move on.

While this model works on a financial standpoint, it really makes companies look like right tossers.

 

Do you seriously think they would LOSE money if they'd have created a game that should have been the actual sequel to SC4?  They'd have still  had the "new" players, and they'd have all the same old-school players that would buy the game anyway.  So those items are equal in and of itself.  It's a new game... it's a new Sim City game... both of those items would bring in the desired revenue just by virtue of being both "new" and "sim city."

 

Because of the way this game is, there will NEVER be any "hardcore" fans of this style of play.  Not for this game.  And if you're going to suggest the numbers say otherwise, well that can be chalked up to the simple fact that there are more actual gamers in existence today than there were when SC4 was released 10 years gone.

 

To suggest Maxis/EA wouldn't make money on just SC4 fans is  like saying Blizzard wouldn't make money if they made a quality Diablo experience for their fan base.  They even pay a fee.

Say there are 10M fans of SC4

And ONLY SC4 players bought this game

Each paid $60 for the game - $60M

Guess that's a horrible amount of money... and we all know there are WELL more than 10M SC4 fans and a heck of alot more people that bought this game.

Sort of what you're arguing here is what "making money" actually means.

 

So let's then assume this game was actually quality (which we all know it is far from that)... how much easier would it be to charge people for any future DLC when the PRODUCT THEY ALREADY HAVE IN HAND is good?  

An example of this would be that EVERYONE that owns SC4 ALSO has a copy of Rush Hour... which cost money to acquire.

Everyone with a copy of this game would buy it.  Put whatever price you want on these additions, and you see how the money just keeps rolling right in, right?

 

I bought every single expansion pack to Roller Coaster Tycoon back in the day because it was such an awesome game... until the last one, where they sorta messed it up.

Any future iterations of that game for me will be via "Let's Play" videos only... but you get my point... Residual income from a gaming franchise in inherent in producing a quality game as well as not upsetting your supporting fanbase...the ACTUAL fanbase... 

 

Therefore, EA/Maxis didn't do themselves any favors by alienating those that have supported this franchise for 2 1/2 decades, and attempting to replace that dedicated fanbase with a whole bunch of new folks that wouldn't spend 1/16 the time playing as we would.  They've succeed only in ruining a game that was once amazing.  Ruining a game that had the support of 10s of 1000s of modders that  would continue to FREELY dedicate their time in helping the paid Maxis developers make a great game.  If they didn't care for the modders opinions, then fine.  But you have to know that isn't true.  There's massive input from places like this site that gets used when developing the game, surely.  Why on earth would they want to start completely over, and leave all the knowledge gathered from SC4 fans in the dust?  It's not only bad practice from a gaming standpoint, it doesn't even make good BUSINESS sense.

So, McDonald's knows it'll never make fries like they used to... so let's scrap the fries and make potato rings because surely there are enough NEW people that will like potato rings!!!

Really? (silly example, but do you see what I'm saying?)

 

So you tell me... who actually has won here?  EA/Maxis still gets paid... great! They're a company... they'd have gotten paid anyway.  

But you seem to lack the knowledge of this "niche" fan base.   They don't exist.  Companies stay alive by catering to their dedicated fans... not by selling one-offs to dabblers that barely know how to load the game.

Those games are left to iPad/iPhone/iPod and Facebook.  And what's worse... some of the new city builder games on those platforms are FAR BETTER than SC2013.

 

There is no "winner" here.  But there most certainly is a large "10M players" loser... 

[mcallisterw 41]

You see, i'm not a native english speaker, so you statement (there was a real one?) seemed to me absolutely on the contrary of what you were trying to say now. Now it seems you are so ready to run for mayor - as Vangiorobnelli said previously - with all those turn around and beating round the bush ... lol

But I've didn't make fun of it though it was irresistable... (just kidding, don't take me seriously on that one MCallister)

 

Enough of this, What most of ppl say here is that this whole game is flaw, retarded, in ALL os the aspects compared to sc4!!! I never expected to see such a misunderstood ideia/concept of WHAT simcity fans really EXPECTED from it.

I've spent almost a year de-intoxicating from sc4 without playing it waiting for the new game and now I just found out i miss sc4 so bad and it was a true mistake to buy this retarded stuff!

(and I am no harcore terraformer fan).

You see, if there is ONE thing they ALMOST got it right was the city specialization. The ALMOST got it!!! Damm so close...

In every other aspect of the game, is it unplayable, dumb, capped.

That is why ppl complain the game should be more realistic. And that's why other ppl complain it is too realistic in some ways... JUST BECAUSE THEY SCREWED IT UP SO BADLY!!!

 

 

(I'll stop now, it 10 in the morning and I'll have a stroke here any moment)

 

Personally I've hardly played SimCity 2013, I played it for a week after I bought it, then got bored with it... I will probably reinstall SC4 though, I loved that game. I think the problem is mainly the fact that in the 6 or 7 years (can't remember off hand) since SC4 came out, a lot in the gaming world has changed... and with many of the people who were originally responsible for Sim City no longer being at Maxis, EA have I think, built the game from the ground up, and tried to appeal to 'new' gamers who wouldn't have even thought about games before the more twee types of games you get on Facebook came out. Ultimately it's a new game for a new demographic of gamers

 

Personally I've said before that gaming now is less about challenge, practice and perfect, and more about create (within set limitations, don't want to present people with too many choices), solve simple but varied puzzles and share what you've done.

 

Unfortunately our problem (or at least my problem) Is we put too much stock in the fact that the game was called Sim City, we assumed things about the game that were never actually said. I bought the game after looking at the website and getting excited that a new Sim City was coming out. I read a lot of stuff about the game on the website, and it looked fantastic, all this stuff about city specialisation, modular buildings and yes (hangs head) curvy roads. It never said that you would build huge metropolises, create your own regions, build highways, play with different modes of transport or name everything in your city what you want.

 

I just assumed that the name 'SimCity' implied all those things... I was wrong.

 

Speaking about himself in the 3rd person,  agreeing and disagreeing with himself in both the 3rd and 1st person and subsequently calling this whole thing a "retardo-fest" ultimately initiated by me "skim reading" the original post???

 

What planet is this?!

 

"You cannot terraform the land before you build..."

 

THIS STATEMENT IS FALSE:

Adjective

Not according with truth or fact; incorrect.

Not according with rules or law.

 

Anything you've stated after this is suspect, and therefor completely irrelevant, because it fails to address a very basic premise that has allowed us as humans to sustain life and shape the earth to suit our needs.

Whether or not you've stated this within the confines of SC2013 vs Real Life (which you didn't) doesn't really change this fact.

 

SC4 allowed for terraforming, which is a real-life activity, believe it or not.  Look at the pics or don't.  Watch the video or don't. 

SC2013 doesn't allow it,  so yes to answer your question, SC2013 should indeed be more realistic, like SC4 and Earth and allow terraforming.

 

The other things you've mentioned with the councils and such are totally not the point of the game, never have been so no reason to bring that in.  This isn't an MMO, despite their incredibly failed efforts to try to make it so.

This is a single player game, with one person (Mayor) YOU, the player of the game, making decisions about your city... regardless of the suggestions of the mock-up "council members".

 

Cities are indeed built within specified boundaries, but they don't instantly stop and then have emptiness until you run into the next city with its specified boundaries.  Believe it or not, most cities even run right into each other.

And a further shock is that almost NONE of them are a perfectly shaped square.  Additionally, very FEW of them have a highway entrance/exist... unless there just happens to be a highway that passes thru the city.

 

We all know this is a game and as such is naturally unrealistic.  However, it is a really BAD game when compared to its predecessor.  The level of nerfing in favor of ...  ??? well,  who knows?  There's no real advancement in this game vs SC4.  Remove the farms, remove the highways, remove the terraforming, remove the mods, remove the region view that actually resembled a real-life regional map from anywhere in the world, remove all of the stuff that made SC4 nearly perfect and replace it with .... ????

 

 

Can we draw a line under this please... You've got me confused with who you want me to be, not who I actually am. You keep pulling quotes out of my original post but chopping off the bit at the beginning of the post when I said things like 'not this' or 'this is what some other people say'. As I said, I never said terraforming was unrealistic, I said that some people use 'it's more realistic' when defending the fact you can no longer terraform.

[GenXisT 127]

fair enough... however the way your sentence was written really came across as you saying you cannot terraform.
 
Had you written it like this:
 
"Some people say this game is unrealistic for the following reasons:
- can't terraform
- city is too small
- fire trucks all go to the same fire
- can't turn left
- blah
- blah
- blah"
 
it would've been much more easily discernible that you were, in fact, referring to what people are saying about SC2013, rather than how it came across as you saying there is no terraforming in real life.
Sorry for derailing the thread, and yes, it is a fault of this textual medium that causes all sorts of meaning to get lost in translation.
 
Carry on...

[Snugies 91]

1: What city can terraform again? please tell me which city built its own terrain? and by the way that shovel is for open pit mining it is not used by city governments for terraforming. and graders are used to flatten land in suburban development not make mountains and rivers. graders don't make mountains and rivers

 

2: What city constantly grows? what city is not surrounded by neighbours? No city grows in area permanently all cities get surrounded by surburbs, look at a map of phoenix.

 

3: By the way cities actually do have little control over the regional freeway systems interstates are federal and cities don't control them

 

4: pretend the green space is surburbs even though you cant see it. Many cities have multiple downtowns separated by suburbs...Houston

 

SimCity 4 is real? not one car on the freeway is real? original commercial skyscraper bug? original industrial bug? what I need to constantly download mods to play SimCity 4? why do I need stupid mods of log cabins? and mars colonies? wtf is that?

 

SimCity doesn't have 10m supporters not even close... you all should think your lucky and thank EA for comin out with SimCity 5...maybe if you people stfu and buy the game we may get an expansion pack or enough money from EA for a SimCity 6.

 

ya EA should make a new SimCity for you guys that we can watch you make your stupid stories about little red riding hood in the woods in her log cabin with the big bad wolf

[VanGioRobNelli 29]

1: What city can terraform again? please tell me which city built its own terrain? and by the way that shovel is for open pit mining it is not used by city governments for terraforming. and graders are used to flatten land in suburban development not make mountains and rivers. graders don't make mountains and rivers

 

2: What city constantly grows? what city is not surrounded by neighbours? No city grows in area permanently all cities get surrounded by surburbs, look at a map of phoenix.

 

3: By the way cities actually do have little control over the regional freeway systems interstates are federal and cities don't control them

 

4: pretend the green space is surburbs even though you cant see it. Many cities have multiple downtowns separated by suburbs...Houston

 

SimCity 4 is real? not one car on the freeway is real? original commercial skyscraper bug? original industrial bug? what I need to constantly download mods to play SimCity 4? why do I need stupid mods of log cabins? and mars colonies? wtf is that?

 

SimCity doesn't have 10m supporters not even close... you all should think your lucky and thank EA for comin out with SimCity 5...maybe if you people stfu and buy the game we may get an expansion pack or enough money from EA for a SimCity 6.

 

ya EA should make a new SimCity for you guys that we can watch you make your stupid stories about little red riding hood in the woods in her log cabin with the big bad wolf

 

I think your last statement might seriously cause a few members on here to have a conniption...  Please refer to the orthosis posted above.

 

As for the game "being" realistic?  These simulations will never be a true real world simulation of what happens in real life.  It follows the basics of what happens in life.  A sim wakes up, goes to work/school/shops, sits in traffic, comes home, and does it all again the next day.  If that cycle is interrupted, you lose happiness.  I think this models real life decently well... Let's see:

 

If you sit in lots of traffic- you will be unhappy

If you are fired from your job- you will be unhappy (or not    )

If you can't shop for the things you want- you will be unhappy

If you can't go to school- you will be unhappy

 

Now there are the still bugs... like service vehicles chaining together, etc... but those are fixable and WILL BE FIXED in the near future.  

 

What I am sick of is everyone coming into the SC5 section of this forum and continue to BASH the sh!t out of this game and EA/Maxis.

 

GET OVER IT.  DON'T PLAY IT.  STICK TO YOUR SC4 AND LET THE REST OF US ENJOY THE GAME EA/MAXIS PRODUCED.... 

[mcallisterw 41]

The first couple of Sim Cities paid very little attention to realism, who ever saw an actual completed arcology? I know there has been one under construction in the Arizona desert for decades now; and I believe on the original, if you so chose, you could build your city on the moon.

 

At the same time there is realism of another level, in the way that the city grew organically. I would say that over the course of the whole series there has been a shift from that kind of scientific realism, with it's inbuilt utopianism towards a more social/domestic realism, where small details and individual Sims are much more important... I don't think EA sat down and said 'this is what we want to do', I think it's what happens when they sat down and said 'people like the Sims, and they like FarmVille, what can we learn from that?'

[VanGioRobNelli 29]

 

At the same time there is realism of another level, in the way that the city grew organically. I would say that over the course of the whole series there has been a shift from that kind of scientific realism, with it's inbuilt utopianism towards a more social/domestic realism, where small details and individual Sims are much more important... I don't think EA sat down and said 'this is what we want to do', I think it's what happens when they sat down and said 'people like the Sims, and they like FarmVille, what can we learn from that?'

 Well said.  They were not trying to make an "UPDATED SIMCITY 4" with great graphics... which is what all of you SC4 fans expected.  

 

They went back to the drawing board on how they can get more people to enjoy SimCity.  It worked.  You might not think so GenXist... because a handful of you REFUSE to accept what EA/Maxis has done... but then again, EA/Maxis is more concerned with the MAJORITY GAMING COMMUNITY than a group of people who still play/mod SC4.  

 

But please, keep your "EA/MAXIS" conspiracy theories coming... they are quite comical.

 

"HIDE YO KIDS, HIDE YO WIVES... MAXIS IS OUT TO DUPE EVERYONE"

^^^Sarcasm intended^^^

[GenXisT 127]

1: What city can terraform again? please tell me which city built its own terrain? 

 

umm... Dubai???

 

Guess i'll just post this picture again:

 

 

And yes, i'm deliberately ignoring the rest of you post because item at index[0] is false.  Therefore, the ENTIRE statement is false.

 

There is, was and never will be a plot of land on this planet that looks like an effing palm tree UNLESS HUMANS BUILD IT THRU TERRAFORMING:

 

Japan's Airport:

 

 

This was built entirely on the water... made by putting LAND (aka "terra") there IN ORDER TO BUILD

 

more Dubai:

 

 

Please note that they have also built, using land, a reflection of the continents on this planet in the ocean where they are BUILDING homes and commerce.

 

Are planet, while great, is not arrogant enough to make a replication of itself in the water so that we can build on it.

 

a "canal" BY DEFINITION is a MAD-MADE RIVER.

 

 

ca·nal  

Noun

An artificial waterway constructed to allow the passage of boats or ships inland or to convey water for irrigation.

 

LA has one:

 

 

So does Panama:

 

 

How many man-made ski hills (mountains) are there?  Lots.

 

A reservoir is what?  Oh, yes... a MAN MADE LAKE.

 

So don't sit there and ask such monumentally ignorant questions, for the sole purpose of being snarky and sarcastic ... when you quite clearly do not know the answers and can't even be bothered to do even 2 minutes of research.

[MandelSoft 2,775]

Well said.  They were not trying to make an "UPDATED SIMCITY 4" with great graphics... which is what all of you SC4 fans expected.

Sir, this is what I call over-generalisation. Not all of us were expecting an updated SimCity 4, just a new game that was better compared to SimCity 4. We were expecting that however, basic features of the previous remained intact in some ways, like terraforming (which was always present in SimCity). We were also expecting a more realistic gameplay and traffic engine...

Reality turned out otherwise...

- The traffic engine is broken by design. Sims live and work at different locations every day (flex-working and flex-living). Who moves here and changes job every day? No one! This makes the traffic engine highly unrealistic.

- Each sim is simulated separately. Not only does it take up a lot of resources, these micro-simulations also seem to give LESS accurate results than the old-school statistical simulation. Sometimes an approximation can be better in the end...

- Sims are getting happy when spending money at shops. Were you ever happy to spend a lot of money at the shop? I don't think so...

- That one single entrance to the city. Just ONE single entrance! I've seen no city here in Real Life with one single road access point.

- Non-coherent regions. Yes, you can build your "cities" inside a small 2x2 km city box, but around that box, there's nothing but a few things infrastructure related, forests and water. No farmland, no small towns. Have you ever seen a region like this in real life? These two points (small city tiles and non-coherent regions) are my two foremost game breakers.

- The roads are curvy, but the building lots are still practically square. CitiesXL suffered from the same problem (and yes, I did buy CitiesXL at some point).

- Terraforming may be gone, but some basic civil engineering terraforming (earth ramps and such) are little or not present in this new game.

- This is the first SimCity without subways and motorways you can build yourself since SimCity 2000, a twenty year old game!

- Bonus points to realism making this game 3D. Penalty points for off scaling (interchanges are small, signs are freakin' huge) and bland textures.

So, there are a lot of things this game doesn't offer over it's 10 year old counterpart. And since it's still around, people still buy that older game despite the new one being out...

Many of us hoped on a true successor of SimCity 4, the next-generation city building game we could last another decade with (yes, I'm talking about people who would be willing to spend money on this for the next ten years). We were even willing to sacrifice SOME features and the custom content we've made in the past decade. Instead we get this casual game with a LOT of drawbacks from the previous iteration. We are not convinced about the game and many of older fans haven't bought the game after reading the info about it. Those who did, quickly turned away from the game due to its restrictions and odd behaviour. Quite some complain that the restrictions are too great to let your creativity go wild...

I consider this game rather a Real Time Strategy game rather than a simulator. And people should view the game from that perspective, then things like realism become vastly less important. But therefore, it's also not within the game genres that I like. I like economic simulation games and personally I do value a lot to realism. That's why I never bought this game and just went on with SimCity 4...

Also, may I remind everyone again not to call names or blame each other?

Best,

Maarten